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Video of cops shooting man while surrendering surfaces, cops blame local news

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BigDes said:
You haven't.

You've said you have questions but haven't told us what they are.
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I'm assuming he meant this.

Leatherface said:
the arm movement thing is bothering me because I can't be certain if it's reaction or the dude going for something. I get the debate going on about it but I'm not quite convinced. That's why I want to see if more info comes out. I know if I was pointing my weapon at someone and they made a quick movement, I can't say I wouldn't do the same damn thing. It doesn't take long to react when you are already in position to use your weapon.
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The breakdown that Bronzewolf made satisfied my questions about that. Seems like there's a big enough margin of error in those numbers that it's a for sure thing.

BronzeWolf said:
I have analyzed the video.

The Facts
From the maximum zoom and vantage point of the video, I would guess the microphone is positioned at no closer than 140 meters (Give by google maps estimations). According to research, average police officers take about 250 ms trigger reaction time. Sound travels at 340.29 m/s.

What should be the time difference between the perp's movement and the gunshot sound at the mike if he was shot after he moved?
At 140 m, the gunshot would be heard 410 ms after the officer completely pulled the trigger. If we add a faster than average reaction from the office at 200 ms, then the gunshot should be heard 610 ms after we see the perp's movement. Anything less than this difference would clearly indicate an unjustified gunshot.

Video Timestamps
Using Windows Movie Maker I was able to both slow down the video playback up to the milisecond.
01:51+500ms Perp starts to raise his arms
01:55+330ms Perp starts to lower his arms
01:55+600ms First gunshot is captured by the mic

Time difference: 270 ms

The conclusion
Of course an amateur video like this would be difficult to show with certainty the real timeline of events. A person reaction to a wound is very fast and it could be confused with a hostile movement from afar.

While my analysis is amateurish, everybody can do it with more advance tools that could a) clean the sound in order to pinpoint the 1st gunshot timestamp better and b) Do a better analysis of the distance between mic and the gun, the time difference is just way too small for the gunshot to have happened before the perp's moved his hands. EVEN with a camera right next to the gun, the officer would have to be 50% more accurate than average police officers in order to react in such a fast way to the shot.
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Yeah, I don't think the cops are in the right.

It is abhorrant that some people are taking it to the extreme by shooting cops. Hopefully they all get caught and persecuted by the fullest extent of the law. They are criminals.

At the same time, they have to realize that the anti-police sentiment is on the rise precisely due to police brutality. They have to recognize this. The US Government needs to come together to push more effective non-lethal takedown strategies.
 
Leatherface said:
Personally I can't tell if the guy tried to quickly go for something. I was trying to listen for the timing of the shots because it looks like the guy quickly reaches down. Can't tell if he was trying to go for something or reacting to being shot. it was that quick and a terribly shaky video.
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Leatherface said:
You have no idea what was going down. You see one shaky video and immediately want a witch hunt. I doubt anyone here is trying to defend cops being assholes but I also refuse to jump on the bandwagon of demonizing every cop in a video before knowing any facts. I've found, more than once, situations where important information was left out of a story in an effort to sensationalize it. I find that disgusting personally.
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Leatherface said:
If those involved did in fact murder that person in cold blood than absolutely, throw the book at them, but these knee jerk reactions bring on virtual angry mob mentality and that isn't going to solve anything either. It just riles up emotions and anger. Analyze, probe for more information, talk about it. That's all fine and well. Police need to be held accountable or we lose faith in the system. That being said we are still going by a shaky phone video of the situation. If I have doubts others will as well and doubt means that it's POSSIBLE things aren't as we perceive them. Yes, the video looks fucked up for sure but I have questions, don't you? Until I find out more information I'm not going to join in with blind rage GAF on this one.
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Leatherface said:
the arm movement thing is bothering me because I can't be certain if it's reaction or the dude going for something. I get the debate going on about it but I'm not quite convinced. That's why I want to see if more info comes out. I know if I was pointing my weapon at someone and they made a quick movement, I can't say I wouldn't do the same damn thing. It doesn't take long to react when you are already in position to use your weapon.
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Leatherface said:
I already posted what i had a problem with.
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Ight slim.

So I ask you what your issue is and you say you already posted it forcing my hand to your post history.

You haven't said a damn thing except "We need to look into this further"


The only thing you have a problem with is your lack of critical comprehension to the video and the situation at hand.

Going only by what is presented to us now... Which is just the video AND the fact that the dumb ass sheriff office tried to do a sleaze campaign against the media, The police look guilty as hell and the only critical component of defense you can come up with is "Something just doesn't smell right, IF they are guilty then throw the book at them"


Don't waste my time man, if you're gonna troll then do it better, If you're gonna try to have an active discussion then you better mean it. But this defense force posting with no substance is pathetic.
 
Sad that this probably won't get much attention.

If only all the people bitching about the BlackLivesMatter group because "OMG, it should be ALL Lives Matter" would spend less time complaining about BLM and more time making a stink over shit like this.
 
#AllLivesMatter don't give a shit about anybody, they're a troll group that only pops up to try and change the narrative when blacks are shot.
 
BigDes said:
You haven't.

You've said you have questions but haven't told us what they are.
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Yes I did. I specifically said can't tell if the victim's hand movement was right before or a reaction to being shot despite the debate on it, which would be a pretty big deal, wouldn't it? I want to know what happened right before that. Why were their guns drawn to begin with? Things like that. You know. Important things to know that could influence the decision they made...no biggie. :\

Anyway, I don't need to defend myself and I'm not going to any further. I am not claiming my opinion is any better or worse than anyone else, but if I have doubts you can be damn sure many others will too. Sorry we don't all think like YOU.
 
Camwi said:
Sad that this probably won't get much attention.

If only all the people bitching about the BlackLivesMatter group because "OMG, it should be ALL Lives Matter" would spend less time complaining about BLM and more time making a stink over shit like this.
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Ironic, You'll probably only see BLM take this on.

Im heated because we just cannot have people getting killed by police in hands up surrender states. It is inhumane and is something only to be witnessed in totalitarian establishments.

This shit is not okay by a long shot. And for officers like these to go unpunished sends a precedent to the police officers in other departments that this behavior is okay.
 
Leatherface said:
Yes I did. I specifically said can't tell if the victim's hand movement was right before or a reaction to being shot despite the debate on it, which would be a pretty big deal, wouldn't it? I want to know what happened right before that. Why were their guns drawn to begin with? Things like that. You know. Important things to know that could influence the decision they made...no biggie. :\

Anyway, I don't need to defend myself and I'm not going to any further. I am not claiming my opinion is any better or worse than anyone else, but if I have doubts you can be damn sure many others will too. Sorry we don't all think like YOU.
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Oh man the way you capitalized you to emphasize your point

Straight to my heart. Bleeding out now.
 
Footage of officers in question

6fc0160ff771a8ac074dc00b55c0f02a38c2a907dbe3d298bad9d0e9ed9b4138.jpg
 
Leatherface said:
Yes I did. I specifically said can't tell if the victim's hand movement was right before or a reaction to being shot despite the debate on it, which would be a pretty big deal, wouldn't it? I want to know what happened right before that. Why were their guns drawn to begin with? Things like that. You know. Important things to know that could influence the decision they made...no biggie. :\

Anyway, I don't need to defend myself and I'm not going to any further. I am not claiming my opinion is any better or worse than anyone else, but if I have doubts you can be damn sure many others will too. Sorry we don't all think like YOU.
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If you think my calculations are wrong, you are free to pinpoint any error in them.

You have to also remember that just because my estimations are wrong, it does not mean your point is right. The fact of the matter is that killing a citizen should not be open to interpretation.
 
Saw the video. The guys hands were clearly up and they still shot him. Don't know if he had something in his other hand due to the light pole in the way, but you can tell that arm was up as well. Why not taze him instead (multiple tazers if need be)??? And they wonder why people are pissed and don't trust cops...
 
So do people really believe that a man with his hands in the air and surrounded multiple cops with their guns pointed at him would make a sudden movement for a weapon on some Quickdraw McGraw shit? Smh...
 
masud said:
So do people really believe that a man with his hands in the air and surrounded multiple cops with their guns pointed at him would make a sudden movement for a weapon on some Quickdraw McGraw shit? Smh...
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If they don't have a high school education, yes.

what soundahfekz said
 
masud said:
So do people really believe that a man with his hands in the air and surrounded multiple cops with their guns pointed at him would make a sudden movement for a weapon on some Quickdraw McGraw shit? Smh...
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We had people in here who didn't know about basic sound properties. I'm not surprised by anything at this point.
 
masud said:
So do people really believe that a man with his hands in the air and surrounded multiple cops with their guns pointed at him would make a sudden movement for a weapon on some Quickdraw McGraw shit? Smh...
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Just diet racist using mental gymnastics to create reasonable doubt to get the cops off the hook. "He was reaching for something!! 1"
 
honestly, the worst part about this isn't even the shooting.

it's the justification attempt. maybe it's because cops murder someone everyday that it seems to have lost its meaning to me but him trying to justify it is just pathetic. like someone said, it's basically fuckin Scooby Doo "i would have gotten away if it wasn't for those meddlin kids
LLShC.gif
"
 
masud said:
So do people really believe that a man with his hands in the air and surrounded multiple cops with their guns pointed at him would make a sudden movement for a weapon on some Quickdraw McGraw shit? Smh...
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Well they also believe that teenagers rhino-charge police officers while being shot at so... why not?
 
Garlador said:
I hadn't even finished reading this story when this popped up in my news feed.

Officers Go To Wrong House, Kill Dog, Shoot Owner, Accidentally Shoot Fellow Officer

Stop being so trigger happy!
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jesus Christ. Someone's going to get sued.

bishoptl said:
#AllLivesMatter don't give a shit about anybody, they're a troll group that only pops up to try and change the narrative when blacks are shot.
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is there actually a alllivesmatter group? I hear people saying all lives matter, and they've clearly missed the point of black lives matter, but its not some organized group.

That said, is the black lives matter movement going to do or say anything about this particular incident because the victim isn't black?
 
That's murder alright.

I can't believe they're trying to justify their actions. As if the video is the problem. Regardless of the backstory, tension and situation was there really a need to resort to murder.
 
His arms went down because his life was in the process of being snuffed out. Watched it without the sound. Complete bodily reaction to being killed.
 
captive said:
jesus Christ. Someone's going to get sued.


is there actually a alllivesmatter group? I hear people saying all lives matter, and they've clearly missed the point of black lives matter, but its not some organized group.

That said, is the black lives matter movement going to do or say anything about this particular incident because the victim isn't black?
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They have in the past.
 
loaf of bread said:
Well in my eyes I see his hands go down a split second before the first shot is fired. Its a split second so its very hard to say either way but can we please be open to discussion and not just disregard people. What i said is what I see and it in the video and it may not be right but it isn't exactly unreasonable.
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It's funny how you always see the opposite to everyone else, even when you've got such clear evidence like this. The guy is reacting to being shot, not making a mad dash to take down two armed officers with a kitchen knife.
 
Kibbles said:
It sure is unethical and sad that they murdered a man surrendering, I'm glad they agree
Wait what?
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This is what is so terrifying. How cold and callous the police are in regards to the context of murdering a surrendering man to death.

"unedited" = we didn't get to edit it.
 
I am still shocked that people will side with cops in any circumstance. We could have video of a cop shooting a toddler and there still be people saying the cop didn't do anything wrong. I call into question exactly what those people stand for, what their view of the world is. I tend to believe they are cowards who will do anything to not incur the wrath of authority. So they will submit and praise police at any and every opportunity.

Look, there are bad doctors, bad lawyers, bad everything. To the cop worshipers, are we to believe there are no bad cops? The difference is that police unions and departments will defend the actions of the bad cops regardless of whatever they do.
 
T-Dot said:
You do have a good point there. But the system isn't utilizing their potential due to the lack of social mobility.

I don't want high schoolers gunned down either. What do you think would be a better course of action to prevent this shit then?
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How about cameras on every officer (which is slowly happening) instead of suggesting high school students start looting a police station full of armed officers.
 
To me, I think this is the most terrifying police killing we've seen in the last year. In almost all of the other cases, I thought "well, I wouldn't have acted like the victim, so I probably would have survived this encounter." Here, though, I would have put my hands up too. And gotten shot. It's just unbelievable.
 
commish said:
To me, I think this is the most terrifying police killing we've seen in the last year. In almost all of the other cases, I thought "well, I wouldn't have acted like the victim, so I probably would have survived this encounter." Here, though, I would have put my hands up too. And gotten shot. It's just unbelievable.
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Gives a new perspective on those other murders, yeah? Doesn't matter what you do, you're liable to be shot and have people rationalize it away.
 
PsychoRaven said:
Yup. Open and shut. Course this is a police murder so they'll get at worst a loss of their jobs.
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More like paid vacation until the internal investigation determines no improper actions were taken by the officer, as with pretty much every other murder by police.
 
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