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[ghostofsparta]

Wow those Facebook posts, "a family lost their loved one". You fucking made that happen! Fucking pigs.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Ugh, why does this keep happening?

Because all cops have guns because any people can have guns because of the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Patrol]

Fair enough. But from my observations, even with those measures in place, the toxic culture is more rampant today, due to "tensions" on the streets of America, more than it ever was

Depending on where you are, perhaps. It's easy to fall into the "us vs. them" mentality and let that consume you; be it if you're a peace officer, or just a regular civilian. I have a friend in Oakland PD who simply has difficulty carrying out normal duties due to the harassment him and his partner receive from folks on the streets. Simple traffic stop have the probability to turn into a high-risk scenarios when five (5) or more individuals run towards you and pull out their phones while screaming all kinds of profanities at you. You leave work frustrated as you feel like you can't do any good for the community.

The environment has changed over the past decade. Situations like this clearly over stoke the fire, but I don't fault people being angry over videos like this. It looks bad, and thus sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

 

[Jmanunknown]

I do not have any personal link to justified errors where a loss of life occurred, as I have not come across that as of yet nor has my partner. However, I have been told (extensively) that such mistakes stick with the officer for a long time, and thus it's a hard concept to fathom how one could not have any empathy towards such mistakes.

How often? I think it's extremely rare in the grand scheme of things.
.

Because they killed someone when it was not necessary or needed that is why some people do not feel empathy for officers in those situations. Take the the John Crawford shooting as an example guy is minding his business in a store another guy in the store calls the cops on him because he thinks he has a weapon despite it being completely legal in ohio they come to the store give him no chance to surrender and shoot him. John Crawford later dies at the hospital. Detectives interrogate his girlfriend and try to intimidate her into giving up info on John Crawford despite knowing by the time they were interrogating her that he was innocent and did nothing wrong. The officers in the case lied under oath to the grand jury and said they gave him verbal commands and he turned and pointed the weapon at them despite video evidence contradicting everything they said. Despite all that the grand jury decided not to indict the officers in the case.

Should people feel empathy for the officers in that case?

 

[EVIL]

If you watch closely it looks like after he puts his hands up he does indeed bring his hands down fast like he's reaching for something, he does this before the gunshots are heard. Watch it closer guys.

I hope I don't have to explain the concept of sound traveling slower then light to you. the guy was shot before you heard the pop, so his hands flick down because he just got shot in the stomach

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Tell me someone who would actually thing reaching for a gun at that point in time would be smart? I don't care how the movies show it. He wasn't having some moment of BADASSERY and attempting to take out two cops with their weapons already drawn. Unless he was doing suicide by police, more than likely, he was just shot and what you see are his arms dropping afterwords.

 

[commedieu]

First off. The equations are not incredibly complex. They are simple high-school linear equations. The bullet and the bullet sound do not affect the medium itself so we don't need differential equations analysis here.

For my analysis I have made some assumptions:

1. The sound is traveling in a straight no obstacle path from the gun to the microphone
2. The ambient temperature and pressure is sea level and 24 degrees.

I have proposed a minimum justified reaction time of 630ms with an observed timestamp of 270ms. Let's study each variable:
1. Direction of the object making the sound - I think it's very clear in the video that a line of sight can be drawn from the microphone to the gun. As we know from Pythagoras, a straight line is the shortest path between two points and any reflection that could come from nearby reflective surfaces would arrive later to the microphone.
2. Distance. I think the error in the distance has been estimated via google maps within 10 meters.
3. Foliage/Trees. I don't see any important foliage or trees in the sound wave front propagation.
4. Cars. There are a couple of cars, but I fail to see how their presence would affect the estimation. Are you worried about background noise, sound reflection from the cars, or something else? It does not seem that the streets were heavily congested during the shooting.
5. Homes. Again, no homes in the sound propagation path.
6. Water. No water in the sound propagation path.
7. Wind. According to records, at noon on the 28th of august, the downwind speed was 9km/h, which translates to 2.5 m/s. For a particle of air to travel directly from the gun to the microphone, it would take it 52 seconds. Any other wind velocity would only increase the travel time and thus, the minimum reaction time. Wind is not an issue here.
8. Air Pressure NOT, Temperature . Air pressure does not matter, only temperature does and this we can guesstimate. On the 28th of august, Cross Mountain, TX had a maximum temperature of 35°C. At this temperature, sound travels at 351 m/s.

Remember that for the shot to be justified, we expect the minimum reaction time to be equal or lower than 270ms, the observed timestamp difference.

mRT (minimum reaction time) = (distance 130m/./(c 351m/s) + (trained human trigger time 200ms) = 570 m/s.

Still over my calculation.

welp.

 

[Patrol]

First off. The equations are not incredibly complex. They are simple high-school linear equations. The bullet and the bullet sound do not affect the medium itself so we don't need differential equations analysis here.

For my analysis I have made some assumptions:

1. The sound is traveling in a straight no obstacle path from the gun to the microphone
2. The ambient temperature and pressure is sea level and 24 degrees.

I have proposed a minimum justified reaction time of 630ms with an observed timestamp of 270ms. Let's study each variable:
1. Direction of the object making the sound - I think it's very clear in the video that a line of sight can be drawn from the microphone to the gun. As we know from Pythagoras, a straight line is the shortest path between two points and any reflection that could come from nearby reflective surfaces would arrive later to the microphone.
2. Distance. I think the error in the distance has been estimated via google maps within 10 meters.
3. Foliage/Trees. I don't see any important foliage or trees in the sound wave front propagation.
4. Cars. There are a couple of cars, but I fail to see how their presence would affect the estimation. Are you worried about background noise, sound reflection from the cars, or something else? It does not seem that the streets were heavily congested during the shooting.
5. Homes. Again, no homes in the sound propagation path.
6. Water. No water in the sound propagation path.
7. Wind. According to records, at noon on the 28th of august, the downwind speed was 9km/h, which translates to 2.5 m/s. For a particle of air to travel directly from the gun to the microphone, it would take it 52 seconds. Any other wind velocity would only increase the time. Wind is not an issue here
8. Air Pressure NOT, Temperature . Air pressure does not matter, only temperature does and this we can guesstimate. Cross Mountain, TX had a maximum temperature of 35°C. At this temperature, sound travels at 351 m/s.

Remember that for the shot to be justified, we expect the minimum reaction time to be equal or lower than 270ms, the observed timestamp difference.

mRT (minimum reaction time) = (distance 130m/./(c 351m/s) + (trained human reaction time 200ms) = 570 m/s.

Still over my calculation.

The equation and variables make it complex. They are linked, and because the bullet and space is not a vacuum, investigators are tasked with detailing the events in length. I think that's a good summary, but I'm afraid it's outside of my knowledge realm to concur or contradict.

Too bad all of that doesn't change the fact that the police are still murdering unarmed civillains at an alarming rate.

Peer-to-peer support sounds pretty useless when cops aren't the one's that need help. Its the people that they are harassing and murdering that need support.

Why are you linking a graph of killings, when they're not distinguished by lawful or not? Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being, yet that graph does not make mention of murder. Rather odd.

Peer support can be about anything job related or not, such as issues in the home life with your kids or wife. Death in the family, or financial stress that just need advice or second opinions on. Honestly, it's just someone there to talk too if need be. Have you ever seen a murder scene? Taken a child rape report? Some things are hard to digest and thus it's nice to have someone to vent too, if need be.

 

[T-Dot]

Depending on where you are, perhaps. It's easy to fall into the "us vs. them" mentality and let that consume you; be it if you're a peace officer, or just a regular civilian. I have a friend in Oakland PD who simply has difficulty carrying out normal duties due to the harassment him and his partner receive from folks on the streets. Simple traffic stop have the probability to turn into a high-risk scenarios when five (5) or more individuals run towards you and pull out their phones while screaming all kinds of profanities at you. You leave work frustrated as you feel like you can't do any good for the community.

The environment has changed over the past decade. Situations like this clearly over stoke the fire, but I don't fault people being angry over videos like this. It looks bad, and thus sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

If you guys are unable to do your jobs because of people's attitudes towards the police, shouldn't you guys be remedying the problems that causes people to distrust the police so much in the first place. It sounds like officers who abuse their power and murder with impunity are making it hard for the rest of you guys to do your job and have positive interactions with the community.

If the police department would simply punish its officers for unjustly killing unarmed civilians, then officers wouldn't get the harassment that you are describing, and there wouldn't be "high-risk scenarios" for petty stuff like a traffic stop.

Why are you linking a graph of killings, when they're not distinguished by lawful or not? Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being, yet that graph does not make mention of murder. Rather odd.

I would love to link a graph of unjust killings, but its hard to get one. Probably due to the fact that so many unjust killings are deemed "just" by the police department. Even if there isn't a distinction between unjust and just, doesn't the graph at least disturb you on any level. The US has a higher rate than other developed democratic countries.

 

[King Gilga]

I hear more about american cops killing people than anyone one else besides isis these days.

A real pathetic state of affairs.

American cops are disgusting.

 

[Darknight]

I really dislike how those jerk have to cuff the dead corpse. Like is it gonna get up and run? The dude is dead. No one is running when they fall like that. Its like kicking a person in the nuttsack after killing him. Like why? He cant feel any more just like the victim in this case cant flee.

I really hope something comes of this. Fired and jail time, no exceptions.

 

[blackflag]

Why are you linking a graph of killings, when they're not distinguished by lawful or not? Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being, yet that graph does not make mention of murder. Rather odd.

This is really a question? Really? Cmon. you are trolling right? right?

 

[inner-G]

More redirecting the blame instead of obviously desperately-needed radical law enforcement reform.

 

[BronzeWolf]

The equation and variables make it complex. They are linked, and because the bullet and space is not a vacuum, investigators are tasked with detailing the events in length. I think that's a good summary, but I'm afraid it's outside of my knowledge realm to concur or contradict.

Of course it's a good summary, I made it, and in absence of contradictory evidence, for me, Cop Shot First. Equations are high-school level equations. If cops are required a high school diploma, they should know these things.

Why are you linking a graph of killings, when they're not distinguished by lawful or not? Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being, yet that graph does not make mention of murder. Rather odd.

Peer support can be about anything job related or not, such as issues in the home life with your kids or wife. Death in the family, or financial stress that just need advice or second opinions on. Honestly, it's just someone there to talk too if need be. Have you ever seen a murder scene? Taken a child rape report? Some things are hard to digest and thus it's nice to have someone to vent too, if need be.

Are you seriously saying that American Citizens are more unlawful/more violent English/Australian/German citizens? Because that's the only other possible explanation for that graph. Maybe JUST maybe, it has to do with how Police are trained. I don't know, just an idea.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

This is really a question? Really? Cmon. you are trolling right? right?

Patrolling.

I just want to ask you Patrol. Is there any single instance where you have found yourself not on the side of the law when it came to a civilian being shot by law enforcement? Just curious.

 

[FyreWulff]

Why are you linking a graph of killings, when they're not distinguished by lawful or not? Murder is the unlawful killing of another human being, yet that graph does not make mention of murder. Rather odd

Probably because 'lawful killing' is a strained weaselword invented solely to brush cop killings under the rug as being specially endowed with rights to use a gun over other citizens, when they shouldn't be.

Under our system, any cop shooting would be tried as a full case and then we would determine that way if a shooting was in self defense or not. Right now, you can just "internal investigation" killing another human being and keep it out of the courts.

 

[Patrol]

If you guys are unable to do your jobs because of people's attitudes towards the police, shouldn't you guys be remedying the problems that causes people to distrust the police so much in the first place. It sounds like officers who abuse their power and murder with impunity are making it hard for the rest of you guys to do your job and have positive interactions with the community.

If the police department would simply punish its officers for unjustly killing unarmed civilians, then officers wouldn't get the harassment that you are describing, and there wouldn't be "high-risk scenarios" for petty stuff like a traffic stop.




I would love to link a graph of unjust killings, but its hard to get one. Probably due to the fact that so many unjust killings are deemed "just" by the police department. Even if there isn't a distinction between unjust and just, doesn't the graph at least disturb you on any level. The US has a higher rate than other developed democratic countries.

Oakland has been going through a huge federally mandated structural change/reforms for over a decade now due to their prior major issues. It's a very, very different department than what it was. I imagine that because of incidents like this, that we will undoubtedly see a major push for more (nationwide) mandated programs in all departments.

Plenty of things disturb me, such as the rate of index crimes compared to other countries in Western Europe.

 

[Kitschkraft]

Fucking evil bastards. And that includes anyone that took actions to protect them (Which, judging from those facebook and twitter post, probably includes most of the department).

 

[Cronox]

I find it amusing that a number of people here (who've already been addressed, but I feel like piling on) don't realize the delay between light and sound. You guys never been to a fireworks display? Never seen lightning and heard thunder afterwards? Here's an example for you: https://youtu.be/Hx5UecbuYw8?t=9s

 

[Patrol]

Patrolling.

I just want to ask you Patrol. Is there any single instance where you have found yourself not on the side of the law when it came to a civilian being shot by law enforcement? Just curious.

I've levied criticism a number of occasions towards the actions of LEOs where the level of force used was not proportional or conduct was not professional.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I've levied criticism a number of occasions towards the actions of LEOs where the level of force used was not proportional or conduct was not professional.

Thats cool man. Can you give any examples? I just want to see what you consider unprofessional.

Im sure if the evidence in this case comes back conclusive and not in favor of the officers, this would be one of those cases, correct?

 

[Captin Quacker]

Look I was just posting some info I found. The situation was obviously very tense. That was all I was trying to illustrate. Did that alone justify killing someone? Obviously not, but it might have lead to something that happened in that moment captured on camera. I still have concerns over the victims movement right before he was shot (because that's what it looked like to me). I think that is a valid concern to have because it could mean the guilt or innocence of two human beings, which some of you seem to have no problem immediately casting judgement on.

I am just as interested in knowing WTF happened as anyone else. I made my concern clear with this. Deep down, yeah, I would like to think these two people didn't murder someone in cold blood, that there is more to this that we are not aware of yet, so before I start getting pissed, I'd like some more info. That's pretty much my thought process on this. If these two cops murdered that man do you REALLY think I want to protect them for it? Let them rot for all I care. For me it all comes down to what the victim did right before getting shot. Was he talking shit and then made a movement like he was going for a weapon, or was that an actual reaction from the gun shot( It looked to me that the motion was before the shot)? To me this is critical and needs to be determined before two more families are destroyed over this.

and what Concerns do you have that haven't already been addressed? it's same BS everytime a cop guns someone down people reach to the moon and beyond to defend and make the cops actions justified. even with video evidence to the contrary this damn thread had people arguing that somehow sound travels near the speed of light

 

[T-Dot]

Oakland has been going through a huge federally mandated structural change/reforms for over a decade now due to their prior major issues. It's a very, very different department than what it was. I imagine that because of incidents like this, that we will undoubtedly see a major push for more (nationwide) mandated programs in all departments.

Plenty of things disturb me, such as the rate of index crimes compared to other countries in Western Europe.

Is that so?

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/06/oakland-police-shoot-kill-armed-man-found-sleeping-car/

OAKLAND (CBS SF) — A suspect found sleeping in a car with a handgun was shot and killed by police officers in Oakland Saturday morning and Oakland mayor Libby Schaaf has promised to determine if the officers’ actions were appropriate.
Police were notified around 7:30 a.m. of an unresponsive driver who had a gun in a car near the Lakeshore Avenue off-ramp from Interstate Highway 580, according to Oakland police Chief Sean Whent.

Whent said officers blocked off the area and spent roughly an hour trying to wake the suspect. Officers deployed beanbag rounds at the car in an attempt to get the driver’s attention, but police said the driver was unresponsive.

Officers then approached the car with a metal pipe to break the passenger-side window in an attempt to talk to the driver, police said.At that point, the officers were able to confirm that a gun was inside the car, according to police.
Whent said that during the last attempt to contact the driver, officers approached the car, the person woke up and then a confrontation ensued.

One officer deployed a Taser and another officer used a gun, Whent said. The driver was struck by bullets and transported to Highland Hospital, where he was pronounced dead, according to Whent.

The police seem to have killed a dude when he was sleeping in his car. If he was a suspect in a robbery, they could have at least arrested him without killing the guy.

It doesn't look like your structural reforms are working, people are still being shot and killed.

 

[GK86]

Fuck cops.

People are seriously defending this shit? A man was murdered on camera. In broad daylight, clear as day that he had his hands up, but you instead want to play physics expert? I expect that type of shit from Patrol, but the rest of y'all? Smh.

 

[Calabi]

Looks like a straight murder to me, dropped his arms because he was shot, his arms dropped and he fell in one smooth motion. He didn't move his arms then fall or jerk in some manner and also the time between the sound and his movement is to small.

I dont understand how this keeps happening, dont they have a lot of paperwork to fill out after every murder.

 

[RE_Player]

Fucking disgusting. I can't even form a proper response.

 

[doctorblurg]

Good luck defending that shit, and how much of a scumbag can you be to put out that tweet? Cops can never be wrong in this country anymore and any criticism someone may have means they automatically want all cops to die.
Im tired of talking about this stuff in my criminal justice classes, everyone is so damn tired of the excuses.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Is that so?

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/06/oakland-police-shoot-kill-armed-man-found-sleeping-car/



The police seem to have killed a dude when he was sleeping in his car. If he was a suspect in a robbery, they could have at least arrested him without killing the guy.

It doesn't look like your structural reforms are working, people are still being shot and killed.

Going by the article that you posted, it said a confrontation took place. How do you know they could have arrested him if a confrontation is taking place? He wasn't simply sleeping with a gun and they came up and shot him. He woke up and there was a confrontation.

 

[GreatestHits]

Fuck cops.

People are seriously defending this shit? A man was murdered on camera. In broad daylight, clear as day that he had his hands up, but you instead want to play physics expert? I expect that type of shit from Patrol, but the rest of y'all? Smh.

Patrol is doing his best. And we're fielding him. But honestly no one here is defending the cops' actions. Even patrol. He is doing a fair bit of subtle trolling in tandem with sincere explanations in the name of protecting his organization

 

[T-Dot]

Going by the article that you posted, it said a confrontation took place. How do you know they could have arrested him if a confrontation is taking place? He wasn't simply sleeping with a gun and they came up and shot him. He woke up and there was a confrontation.

They could have easily shot him in the leg or arm, rather than shoot to kill.

The heart of the problem is that American cops aren't being properly trained to use their weapons in a non-lethal manner.

 

[HariKari]

The body language of the cop on the left felt like "aww yeah we just killed that fucker." Really nonchalant for what just happened.

 

[HelloMeow]

The heart of the problem is that American cops aren't being properly trained to use their weapons in a non-lethal manner.

To use a fire arm in a non-lethal manner you don't use it.

 

[EVIL]

They could have easily shot him in the leg or arm, rather than shoot to kill.

The heart of the problem is that American cops aren't being properly trained to use their weapons in a non-lethal manner.

Probably because in their eyes, everybody can have a gun on them, which is kinda the issue when everybody can easily acquire a firearm.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

If you look at the cop on the left as the other cruiser pulls up he does a little run up to the back of his cruiser like he's in some kind of danger from the dead guy. Trying to put on a nice show for the other cops showing up.

 

[T-Dot]

Probably because in their eyes, everybody can have a gun on them, which is kinda the issue when everybody can easily acquire a firearm.

So, one shitty problem (too many guns) leads to another (police killings). A causal web of shittyness to be exact.

Americans have it real bad. I feel for y'all

 

[Ayt]

So apparently they used shields and a taser in an attempt to subdue the guy, which had no effect, a woman was seriously injured and there were also concerns over a baby. This episode went on for over 20 minutes and from what is being said there are other substantial pieces of evidence that are not being released to the public as of yet. So yeah , there may be some more info that is important to the decisions made today. Let's wait and see what they are, shall we?

Honestly, the officers better have a damn good reason for doing what they did. If not than I'll be joining the GAF mob as well. I am not thrilled that anyone gets gunned down like a dog so I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone. I just want more info.

Where did you get this info?

 

[Stinkles]

.

You don't give any barely trained jackass a gun and tell them to not end up killing people. They're going to end up killing people. That's the only possible outcome.

Apparently we do though. As these threats continually prove.

I wonder if Patrol will also defend the incredibly toxic and racist discussions cops have about civilians on their favorite chat forum. The people posting there think of civilians as chumps and worse. With very very few reasonable voices.

And this predates the current social media crisis.

It's a fascinating sewer but this is literally the first post I selected at random.


http://community.policeone.com/general-discussion/33578-how-america-should.html

 

[Africanus]

First off. The equations are not incredibly complex. They are simple high-school linear equations. The bullet and the bullet sound do not affect the medium itself so we don't need differential equations analysis here.

For my analysis I have made some assumptions:

1. The sound is traveling in a straight no obstacle path from the gun to the microphone
2. The ambient temperature and pressure is sea level and 24 degrees.

I have proposed a minimum justified reaction time of 630ms with an observed timestamp of 270ms. Let's study each variable:
1. Direction of the object making the sound - I think it's very clear in the video that a line of sight can be drawn from the microphone to the gun. As we know from Pythagoras, a straight line is the shortest path between two points and any reflection that could come from nearby reflective surfaces would arrive later to the microphone.
2. Distance. I think the error in the distance has been estimated via google maps within 10 meters.
3. Foliage/Trees. I don't see any important foliage or trees in the sound wave front propagation.
4. Cars. There are a couple of cars, but I fail to see how their presence would affect the estimation. Are you worried about background noise, sound reflection from the cars, or something else? It does not seem that the streets were heavily congested during the shooting.
5. Homes. Again, no homes in the sound propagation path.
6. Water. No water in the sound propagation path.
7. Wind. According to records, at noon on the 28th of august, the downwind speed was 9km/h, which translates to 2.5 m/s. For a particle of air to travel directly from the gun to the microphone, it would take it 52 seconds. Any other wind velocity would only increase the travel time and thus, the minimum reaction time. Wind is not an issue here.
8. Air Pressure NOT, Temperature . Air pressure does not matter, only temperature does and this we can guesstimate. On the 28th of august, Cross Mountain, TX had a maximum temperature of 35°C. At this temperature, sound travels at 351 m/s.

Remember that for the shot to be justified, we expect the minimum reaction time to be equal or lower than 270ms, the observed timestamp difference.

mRT (minimum reaction time) = (distance 130m/./(c 351m/s) + (trained human trigger time 200ms) = 570 m/s.

Still over my calculation.

Thank you for this analysis.

Even considering an absurd margin of error, I cannot see this shooting to be justified.

I await the second video.

 

[DietRob]

I keep asking the same question in thread after thread like this. I'm fucking irate and fed the fuck up with this shit.

WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE STUN GUNS? WHY ARE POLICE OFFICERS NO LONGER USING THEM?

Especially in a situation like this. The guy has a god damn knife at worst. Why can't these officers use a stun gun or pepper spray? I just don't get it. Why do they pass up those options and go straight for the lethal option?

 

[Marty Chinn]

They could have easily shot him in the leg or arm, rather than shoot to kill.

The heart of the problem is that American cops aren't being properly trained to use their weapons in a non-lethal manner.

You're jumping to conclusions. I'm not disagreeing there's a problem, but I don't think the article and incident you posted is helping your case because you jump to a conclusion with a lack of information.

For starters, it said they tried to break the side window to wake him up. That implies his windows are shut. So tasers I would imagine would be ineffective. But they said they used a taser so it's hard to picture what the exact situation is. If he's inside the car, and the windows are up, shooting him in the leg might not be an option given the angle of the windows and the fact that his legs might be not in view. The same goes for the arms. Yet somehow you jumped to the conclusion that he could have been shot in the arm or leg. That's not even getting into the issue of should you shoot someone in the arm or leg to begin with. The whole point is you've taken your view point and forced it on to this particular situation without having enough info and yet somehow concluded he could have easily been arrested. Nothing in the article suggests so. In fact, it suggests otherwise.

 

[GreatestHits]

The body language of the cop on the left felt like "aww yeah we just killed that fucker." Really nonchalant for what just happened.

To them, dude was a criminal. They prepare themselves for these encounters, dare I say project themselves on these encounters

Where did you get this info?

The PD came out with that bullshit. I haven't looked into it further than word of mouth but I believe he was accused of the violence towards other people, but the part about the taser and shield to my knowledge is complete bullshit fabricated by the police officers

"The Sheriff’s Office claims that two deputies found a man who appeared to have a knife and tried to take him down using nonlethal force. According to Keith, the man resisted arrest and fought back against the deputies. After unsuccessfully attempting to subdue the man with nonlethal weapons, deputies resorted to their firearms and shot him to death.

But according to witnesses and a newly released video, the deputies never attempted to deploy nonlethal tactics and apparently gunned down the unarmed man while his hands were in the air. A witness who wishes to be identified only as “Leo” told Telemundo that he saw two officers approach the man with their guns drawn and ordered the man to get on the ground. When he refused to comply, the deputies immediately opened fire."

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/video-reveals-police-shooting-unarmed-man-hands/

http://www.kens5.com/story/news/cri...r-involved-shooting-far-nw-bexar-co/71328772/

At the end of the video, the man appears to be unarmed and submitting with his empty hands in the air when deputies opened fire. The video does not show the deputies attempting to use nonlethal force, and the man does not make physical contact with the deputies.

I guess they had no idea they were on camera and told a standard bullshit story. That's precisely what it looks like

"Greg Vasquez and Robert Sanchez shot and killed Gilbert Flores on Friday at his northwest-side home."

Sheriff Susan Pamerleau said in a press conference that the deputies struggled with Flores for about 20 minutes before opening fire.
(http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...-shooting-of-Gilbert-116165/photo-8560201.php)

“Definitely, the video is troubling,” District Attorney Nicholas “Nico” LaHood said after reviewing the recordings.

One of those recordings, provided by a witness, was aired on KSAT 12 News.

“There’s actually another video with a better view that is very close,” LaHood said.

Flores has a criminal record that includes a 2003 aggravated robbery charge and a 1999 criminal trespass charge.

Vasquez and Sanchez are on paid administrative leave, pending the outcome of the investigation. Both have been with the Sheriff's Office for at least 10 years.

http://www.ksat.com/news/bexar-deputies-man-they-shot-idd-in-fatal-encounter

 

[KHarvey16]

Did they struggle before the video starts or does it show the whole incident?

 

[bishoptl]

is there actually a alllivesmatter group? I hear people saying all lives matter, and they've clearly missed the point of black lives matter, but its not some organized group.

No, just the usual fuckwits on Twitter who pop up to downplay.

That said, is the black lives matter movement going to do or say anything about this particular incident because the victim isn't black?

They have in the past, absolutely. Stepping up where trolls wouldn't dare.

 

[thenight11]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...ow-about-the-on-camera-killing-of-6478222.php

SAN ANTONIO — The FBI said Tuesday afternoon it has opened a federal civil rights investigation into the fatal shooting of a man by two Bexar County Sheriff's deputies, which was captured on cellphone video.
"We coordinate our investigation to ensure that we are not interfering with (BSCO's) investigation," said FBI spokeswoman Michelle Lee. "They have been extremely cooperative and transparent.


also http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...-enforcement-officers-have-killed-6451544.php
More than 30 people killed in Bexar County by law enforcement officers since 2010

 

[FO-totality]

Oakland has been going through a huge federally mandated structural change/reforms for over a decade now due to their prior major issues. It's a very, very different department than what it was. I imagine that because of incidents like this, that we will undoubtedly see a major push for more (nationwide) mandated programs in all departments.

Plenty of things disturb me, such as the rate of index crimes compared to other countries in Western Europe.

Is that so?

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/06/oakland-police-shoot-kill-armed-man-found-sleeping-car/



The police seem to have killed a dude when he was sleeping in his car. If he was a suspect in a robbery, they could have at least arrested him without killing the guy.

It doesn't look like your structural reforms are working, people are still being shot and killed.

About those reforms, Oakland has had over a decade to fix specific reforms issued by a federal court and STILL have not complied with all of them.

 

[Glass Joe]

First off --> I saw the video, very sad. I just can't imagine any justifiable defense from the department here. That social media response smells of corruption too. A few people mentioned tasers. I kind of thought that was what I was watching. I knew the topic but just hoped against hope that he was tased and something crazy happened after.

But really, even tasing looks like it would have been excessive force.

Are you seriously saying that American Citizens are more unlawful/more violent English/Australian/German citizens? Because that's the only other possible explanation for that graph. Maybe JUST maybe, it has to do with how Police are trained. I don't know, just an idea.

American citizens ARE more violent than English/Australian/German citizens. Instead of being incredulous or sarcastic, realize the obvious: It has to do with the rampant accessibility of guns in America. Just look around GAF, there's plenty of recent gun control threads talking about American homicides. Therefore, if you are law enforcement and come after a criminal with a gun, sometimes lethal force is essential. Is that what the graph is showing? That's what the other poster is asking and it's a fair question as there's no context, just an image.

Please be aware that this reply is a rebuttal to your statement, and not of the actual topic or video itself, which is just indefensible.

 

[Anjelus_]

Why couldn't they shoot him in the leg?

American cops claim that if you shoot, you shoot to kill.

French police though, does things a little bit different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_75uR4u5YEs

Why in God's name would you link to this video to support your case? The man was aiming a rifle at himself when the French police shot him in the leg from far away. More importantly, there were no police in the courtyard with him at the time of the shooting; the only one in danger was himself, and they shot him in the leg to save himself.

This is not the same scenario as shooting to kill in a self-defense situation, which is what the "American cops" are talking about when they say that.

 

[GreatestHits]

Did they struggle before the video starts or does it show the whole incident?

The DA says there are two videos, but of the one released to the public, it doesn't look like there was any altercation AT ALL. Gilbert kinda picks up his pace in the direction away from the officers for a second but then heads back towards the cops (who were pretty relaxed and seemed to be slowly approaching the whole time). Looks like the scuffle was fabricated. But more evidence is on the way eventually

I have strong suspicions that the second video, which is apparently much closer, shows no weapon (alleged knife) in his left hand. Because the DA has already seen it and says, “Definitely, the video is troubling”

 

[KHarvey16]

The DA says there are two videos, but of the one released to the public, it doesn't look like there was any altercation AT ALL. Gilbert kinda picks up his pace in the direction away from the officers for a second but then heads back towards the cops (who were pretty relaxed and seemed to be slowly approaching the whole time). Looks like the scuffle was fabricated. But more evidence is on the way eventually

I have strong suspicions that the second video, which is apparently much closer, shows no weapon (alleged knife) in his left hand. Because the DA has already seen it and says, “Definitely, the video is troubling”

If no such altercation took place obviously this should be a short process. The video wouldn't even be the only source of evidence there, as it looks like there were other witnesses (seeing as at least one other video exists) and the taser itself is either used or it isn't.

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

Holy shit. This is in my city. I had no fucking idea. Goddamn.