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Video: Officer Fires at Minivan in Traffic Stop

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The police shooting at the escaping car should obviously not be allowed to work as a police officer of any sort. The family, however, seems to be idiots and clearly did not comply. Still doesn't make it ok to fire upon them.
 
The initial cop handled it as well as he possibly could. The mother was irrational and non compliant and her son was aggressive and stupid.

I don't know if it was because of the confusion, the other officer just arriving and not fully understanding the situation, but he made a split second downright awful decision. I am not sure exactly what should be done, but the officer should face some sort of repercussions as it was obvious whatever protocol was in place wasn't followed by him.


Metalmurphy said:
US Police mentality (/training?), better dead then on the loose,no matter the crime.
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Oh shut up with this bullshit.
 
Sinfamy said:
The mother and son who resisted arrest and than ran should be charged for that, they are guilty, regardless of the reason why they were stopped, you cannot do that.

However, the cop knew very well that there was no reason to shot at the car, they can easily catch up to it later, why risk killing someone, even if aiming at the tires, you can't take that risk. So he should also be charged for that.

Use a baton, use a teaser, use a pepper spray, but don't fire your gun, that's the last resort.
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I guess the response, and I'm not 100% in agreement with it but I see the point, is that a fleeing vehicle is a public safety hazard. And she proved that during the subsequent chase, driving in opposing traffic and making cars swerve to avoid a head-on collision.

The cop who made the initial traffic stop for speeding handled the situation very well before the backup showed. There are other edits of the video on news sites that show some other details, but I'm hoping we get the full minutes at some point.


Edit: found, i think. watching it now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqe6Oesvhl0
 
Did the minivan try to drive away at the beginning, resulting in the door being open and the officer being more aggressive at around the 15 second mark?
 
I'm not a fan of shooting at civilian vehicles.

With that said I blame the mother and son for it. Kids in the car and you acting like that?? You don't get to resist arrest, assault a cop and run from the police because you disagree. You don't have that option. Once he says turn around you turn around and put your hands behind your back the debate is over. I'm not even on that "respect authority" bullshit. That's just the way it is. You gotta wait until you make bail and lawyer up to fight back. Can't just fight right then and there.


And to let your kid get in trouble cause you can't control yourself. All this cause she couldn't shut up and take a fucking ticket.

And the cops in this situation are no better. I understand they have a tough job but they are trained to have patience beyond normal limits. They should be held to the upmost of standards as enforcers of law. And if they violate the rules of engagement/ escalation of force they should be dealt with.

In summation: Fire the cops and file charges if warranted.

Charge the mother with resisting arrest, felony assault of a police officer. And charge the kid as well. Gotta learn you can't do that shit.
 
i hate bees said:
I don't see the problem, it looks like those shots were to disable the vehicle - the officer took his time to line up the shot and fired a few controlled shots. They obviously weren't trying to maim the occupants.
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Guns are used to kill, not to disable anything, ever. Stop believing in everything you saw in movies or video games.
 
Gotta side with the cops here. Why did she think trying to run away multiple times was going to help? They would have found her off the plates anyway, or chased her until she crashed, which is a greater threat to the entire family.
 
Bodacious said:
I guess the response, and I'm not 100% in agreement with it but I see the point, is that a fleeing vehicle is a public safety hazard. And she proved that during the subsequent chase, driving in opposing traffic and making cars swerve to avoid a head-on collision.

The cop who made the initial traffic stop for speeding handled the situation very well before the backup showed. There are other edits of the video on news sites that show some other details, but I'm hoping we get the full minutes at some point.


Edit: found, i think. watching it now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqe6Oesvhl0
Click to expand...
Shooting at it will not stop it unless you hit the driver or a tyre, and then it crashes, causing a public safety hazard, or the if the cop misses and bullets are flying there is a public safety hazard. Let the van drive off, record number plate, least risk to everyone.
 
linsivvi said:
Guns are used to kill, not to disable anything, ever. Stop believing in everything you saw in movies or video games.
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Guns are tools, the bullets don't home in on human flesh. He popped a few shots trying to disable the vehicle, as soon as it was beyond a reasonable range he holstered.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
I'm not a fan of shooting at civilian vehicles.

With that said I blame the mother and son for it. Kids in the car and you acting like that?? You don't get to resist arrest, assault a cop and run from the police because you disagree. You don't have that option. Once he says turn around you turn around and put your hands behind your back the debate is over. I'm not even on that "respect authority" bullshit. That's just the way it is. You gotta wait until you make bail and lawyer up to fight back. Can't just fight right then and there.


And to let your kid get in trouble cause you can't control yourself. All this cause she couldn't shut up and take a fucking ticket.

And the cops in this situation are no better. I understand they have a tough job but they are trained to have patience beyond normal limits. They should be held to the upmost of standards as enforcers of law. And if they violate the rules of engagement/ escalation of force they should be dealt with.

In summation: Fire the cops and file charges if warranted.

Charge the mother with resisting arrest, felony assault of a police officer. And charge the kid as well. Gotta learn you can't do that shit.
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Well, the mother did say they were on an educational trip across the country. Guess they learned something.
 
Had that mom simply took the ticket things would be ok. I don't agree with the police trying to shoot out the tires but damn did the mom put her children's lives, her life and others in danger when she decided to drive like a mad person.
 
i hate bees said:
Guns are tools, the bullets don't home in on human flesh. He popped a few shots trying to disable the vehicle, as soon as it was beyond a reasonable range he holstered.
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Exactly, they don't home but might ricochet into a bystander (or the damn little kid in the backseat!). By shooting he only created danger where there was none before.
 
Carcetti said:
Exactly, they don't home but might ricochet into a bystander (or the damn little kid in the backseat!). By shooting he only created danger where there was none before.
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There are no bystanders, he's firing 9mm downwards, worst case scenario is it buries in the tarmac or scratches the underside of the car.
 
Vilix said:
Well, they were on an educational trip across the country. Guess they learned something.

I will say the cop should've never fired. There's a chance the bullet could've ricoheted and hit one of the kids.
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Yeah I watched the whole video and the officer who opened fire is in some deep shit. He just rushed the scene and started shooting, then said on the radio during the chase that he believed there was a firearm in the vehicle. He never had time to get such information or suspicion. The first cop who originally pulled her over nipped that shit in the bud though, told dispatch there was no gun.

This woman is seriously lacking in judgment skills. 100mph chase into town after she fled.
 
The lady and dude we're acting so stupid. I mean c'mon, mouthing off, resisting arrest, and stepping up to a cop like you're gonna throw down? Good thing the cop showed them what true retardedmenship is by firing a lethal weapon in a totally warranted fashion at no particular target since they were speeding away.
 
i hate bees said:
There are no bystanders, he's firing 9mm downwards, worst case scenario is it buries in the tarmac or scratches the underside of the car.
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Worst case scenario is he misjuges his aim and end up killing someone. Policemen are armed for self-defense only, anything else is a disproportionate reaction.
 
i hate bees said:
Guns are tools, the bullets don't home in on human flesh. He popped a few shots trying to disable the vehicle, as soon as it was beyond a reasonable range he holstered.
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Well people like you are why there are so many deaths and injuries resulted from gun accidents. Guns are not tools. No police handbook would suggest using a lethal weapon to disable a car. This is real life not fucking GTA.

If you are a gun owner go read up a gun safety handbook, because otherwise you are a danger to everybody.
 
The cop shouldn't have shot at all. End of. He's supposed to be trained in detaining people being like that, and failed.

What if he hit a tire, the van crashes into another car and kills the lot? Or shoots someone in the head? Or worse, hits someone else not even involved?

This thread would be completely different if someone was hurt.
 
Guns have become the first resort for American police. People apparently deserve death for disobeying an officer. Is it a surprise people are suddenly attempting to run away from them?
 
Khaz said:
Worst case scenario is he misjuges his aim and end up killing someone. Policemen are armed for self-defense only, anything else is a disproportionate reaction.
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At 20 meters on a slowly accelerating vehicle? he moves in position, postures himself and fires.
 
SUTOruin said:
I don't approve of the mom and son's actions but I KNOW why they acted the way they did.

First off, being black and pulled over by the cops is a very volatile situation. Some handle it better than others. I've been bothered by the cops in my own neighborhood and as much as I'd like to tell them to fuck off I have to be civil and shit, FOR MY WELL BEING. All it takes is one wrong move and the whole thing can spiral out of control. Second, being a mother alone on the road with a car full of kids is also a very volatile situation. Mom wanted to get away and that hard headed teenager wanted to protect his mom.

I can't stress how important it is to keep your cool around the cops if you're a person of color because you don't know what they'll do. This very easily could have been very tragic.
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When I read this story earlier, was it yahoo maybe, it turned out there was drug paraphernalia in the car.
 
Can't watch the vid ATM, but generally speaking it's legal for law enforcement to use firearms to stop a fleeing vehicle by shooting at tires or (a person's legs), at least in Germany/Austria.
Would be very surprised if that wasn't the case in any of the americas.
 
Interesting how stories get framed and the subsequent reactions.

My local media ran with the angle that there were a bunch of little kids in the back of that van and people in the comments were livid at the cops.
 
This time the blame isn't on the cops.....that much imo, driving away from a police stop isn't smart at all, that's just dumb and I haven't seen the video since it was on the news yesterday but was it 3 times they drove away or 2.

So I assume the cop was trying to shoot her tires out, but then her son comes out of the van and attacks the cop :/ that's even more dumb.

I wonder what the outcome will be.
 
Vilix said:
Well, the mother did say they were on an educational trip across the country. Guess they learned something.
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No bullshit. I mean, it sucks to get a speeding ticket. I know. Doing 80 in a 55 and having to pay 500$ really really blows. But you know...I don't get to take my car and just drive away because I figure I don't want to pay.

That's a pretty obvious way to escalate the situation to a place we don't want to go.
 
That's way milder than a drunken brawl at the bar around here. Why on earth are the cops firing again? I'll reiterate the thing I always say: American cops love to use their guns. It's less and less about need and more about want.

edit: also, funny how the "you always shoot to kill" gun became a device for puncturing tires when it suits the argument. Note that I'm not categorically against shooting at tires, but with kids in the car it's just crazy reckless.
 
The initial officer handled that AMAZINGLY well. It was a real shit show and he stayed calm and collected. It's a miracle no one got tazed. That guy deserves kudos for handling such a chaotic scene so well.

As for shooting at the van, well, that was pretty stupid. I understand that a vehicle speeding away is a danger to the public safety, but shooting at a car even with intent to hit the tires is just way too dangerous to be a viable option.

And that family has a death wish. Who the fuck acts like that over a routine traffic stop? I'm sorry, I understand that interacting with the police when you're a person of color is stressful and can be scary but acting the way they did is ludicrous in the extreme.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
They were definitely using deadly force on a fleeing car. The question is: Was such force justified?
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They were shooting at the car. From the video it does not look like their intent was to shoot the passengers. Hasardeur was being overly dramatic.

I won't comment on if the force was justified until I can find out more information about the stop.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
They were definitely using deadly force on a fleeing car. The question is: Was such force justified?
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It's unconstitutional.

Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)[1], was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, he or she may use deadly force only to prevent escape if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.
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Tedesco! said:
They were shooting at the car. From the video it does not look like their intent was to shoot the passengers. Hasardeur was being overly dramatic.

I won't comment on if the force was justified until I can find out more information about the stop.
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He could be aiming the gun at the sky or at himself and he would still have used deadly force. Firing a gun is the use of deadly force, period.

Since it is already been ruled unconstitutional, it is not justified either.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
They were definitely using deadly force on a fleeing car. The question is: Was such force justified?
Click to expand...

Mom spent 15 minutes resisting arrest and the son actually walked out of the van, threatened and punched the cop. For all he knew, they were planning on driving the van and those kids off a cliff, or they were terrorists with bombs in the trunk, or they were kidnappers, etc.
 
The family acted moronically especially the mother (I don't think the son should be brought up on any charges). He should not have fired any shots, he should have pursued the mother or arrested her on the spot, it would have been a horrible thing if anyone had actually been hit with gunfire in the van.
 
Black Door said:
Mom spent 15 minutes resisting arrest and the son actually walked out of the van, threatened and punched the cop. For all he knew, they were planning on driving the van and those kids off a cliff, or they were terrorists with bombs in the trunk, or they were kidnappers, etc.
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1/10 troll attempt.
 
I didn't realize shooting tires out was a thing. I thought Police were trained to only use a weapon to kill a suspect.

Mother is stupid though, driving away from a cop after they pull you over...
 
linsivvi said:
It's unconstitutional.





He could be aiming the gun at the sky or at himself and he would still have used deadly force. Firing a gun is the use of deadly force, period.

Since it is already been ruled unconstitutional, it is not justified either.
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It's super easy to claim a high speed chase is incredibly life threatening to others, in which case lethal force would be justified.

I don't personally believe it would be, but in that example there...
 
WHY THE F**K WOULD YOU OPEN FIRE WITH KIDS IN THE CAR. THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR FIRING AT KIDS. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE AT SHOOTING AT ARMED AND DANGEROUS ADULTS, BUT KIDS, INNOCENT KIDS, C'MON!!

Trigger happy officers will just fire at anyone. I read a news article a while ago that an officer shot dead a young man because he wouldn't turn off the car. This is just ridiculous, honestly i haven't seen such disregard for human life. Car gets away so you'd shoot at them. Man won't turn off his car, so you kill him.

There was no restraint with what he did, he treated the people in those cars as if they were murderers, terrorists or gangbangers. Cops like him shouldn't be allowed outside an office. You cannot justify what he did.
 
SteveWinwood said:
It's super easy to claim a high speed chase is incredibly life threatening to others, in which case lethal force would be justified.

I don't personally believe it would be, but in that example there...
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A high speed chase can be a life threatening situation, not only to the driver and the police officers, but to the rest of the public driving as well. If the lady is too freaked out that it causes her to drive erratically and hit another driver; do you not think her actions would pose a danger to others?
 
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