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[cryptic]

...and people wonder why folks turn to crime. You guys can't imagine how fucked shit is.
Being one of the lowest myself I wonder if I can make it out seeing as even in college I can't separate myself from my life at home enough to fully focus. Not only that, if I fail and I can only work minimum wage to make up my debt, I'll have no right to ever have even a moderately happy life. Damn this world.

 

[astroturfing]

What's more infuriating is that they don't even spend that money.

no kidding. how many tens of trillions was it again that the richest people are just sitting on, hidden in tax havens? it was big news for a while some time ago.. then nothing. people should've been outraged and torn everything the fuck down. we're talking about fucking TENS OF TRILLIONS.

the hospital i'm working at (minimum wage of course, what else are you going to pay someone risking their health with quarantined patients etc) is going to sack a lot of workers, just to save 2 million euros or something, and the severe lack of hospital workers is going to have a very, very negative effect on the patients... it drives me absolutely nuts knowing that the world is full of obscenely rich people who could save our struggling hospital for decades to come, and it would be just chump change to them. the world is fucking ridiculous. the middle class and poor are being shat on from astronomical heights with such force it boggles even the most cynical mind.

 

[Hermii]

Who still thinks America. Is a democracy?

 

[entremet]

Who still thinks America. Is a democracy?

It's never been. It's a Democratic Republic.

 

[Hermii]

It's never been. It's a Democratic Republic.

A plutocratic republic.

 

[Omegasquash]

This really makes me wonder why I try so hard to go from a 30k/year job (currently), to a 50k/year job. In the scheme of things, the amount of money is so low that it is almost negligible in the eyes of that chart.

Fucking depresses me.

Nope, it will make a difference. Every little bit helps, you just have to keep at it. In the last 4 years, I've damn near tripled my income by finding an employer that values employees and the work that they do.

Don't give up, even when you're depressed about it. Because that shit never goes away.

 

[Deified Data]

Unfortunately the current system just supports the wealthy and the status quo and encourages more of the people to take handouts from the government. Once you start sucking on the government's teets you will be addicted and have minimal motivation to get off.

Definitely, the period I spent on food stamps as a child were the best years of my life. I wish I could revisit those golden years of plenty.

 

[War Peaceman]

Definitely, the period I spent on food stamps as a child were the best years of my life. I wish I could revisit those golden years of plenty.

The way he wrote it could mean the wealthy are the ones getting the handouts... which may be fair.

 

[hateradio]

I don't really understand what's shocking about the video aside from the general public being so uninformed.

I thought it was a well-known fact that the top earning bracket owned more than half of the wealth distribution.


Everyone else is lower class.

 

[User 100115]

Hm. What if we made it a rule that, after a certain income status was reached (the top whatever %) you had to spend a good chunk of your yearly income? Like, make that a tax break? "Once you're making 500 million a year, you need to spend at least half of that and not let it sit around doing nothing."

Stupid, I know, but still...

 

[maxxpower]

Isn't this due to movie stars, professional athletes, and CEOs making an insane amount of money compared to "rich" people?

 

[mackattk]

Nope, it will make a difference. Every little bit helps, you just have to keep at it. In the last 4 years, I've damn near tripled my income by finding an employer that values employees and the work that they do.

Don't give up, even when you're depressed about it. Because that shit never goes away.

Thanks, and I know it helps and will make a difference in my life. If I think about it it is really discouraging though. How the few wealthy elite can make life for a lot of people miserable is really boggling. Doesn't help when the gloat about how the 99% should repay the 1%, and that the government shut down is actually good for America; while millions go without jobs, and families cannot afford to feed their kids without WIC.

I have been stagnant at my job for almost 5 years now. I have tried to look for employment elsewhere, but haven't had any luck so far. The job market in my area isn't all that great.

Meanwhile, I started going back to school for a CIS major, hoping to land a programming gig sometime. Think I might take the summer semester off and look into Ruby on Rails, and hope to find something after studying that.

I just really wish I could go back 10 years and go down a different path, but thats life.

I don't really understand what's shocking about the video aside from the general public being so uninformed.

For me, the graphical representation really brought the words to life, so to speak.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

That's terrible. Not sure what the best way to go about fixing things is, but I would:

1. Raise minimum wage.
2. Increase income tax on the wealthy.

 

[OminoMichelin]

Hm. What if we made it a rule that, after a certain income status was reached (the top whatever %) you had to spend a good chunk of your yearly income? Like, make that a tax break? "Once you're making 500 million a year, you need to spend at least half of that and not let it sit around doing nothing."

Stupid, I know, but still...

Thing is, most of that money gets out of the country, stashed in some tax free heaven. It gets neither spent nor taxed, and nothing can change this, short of a draconian international tax law.

 

[KingGondo]

Hm. What if we made it a rule that, after a certain income status was reached (the top whatever %) you had to spend a good chunk of your yearly income? Like, make that a tax break? "Once you're making 500 million a year, you need to spend at least half of that and not let it sit around doing nothing."

Stupid, I know, but still...

Increasing the income tax on the wealthy and using the proceeds to fund government spending would have the same effect.

 

[User 100115]

Increasing the income tax on the wealthy and using the proceeds to fund government spending would have the same effect.

Yeah, but lawmakers and the rich seem so allergic to tax that something like that as a 'tax break' would likely go over better.

 

[Omegasquash]

Thing is, most of that money gets out of the country, stashed in some tax free heaven. It gets neither spent nor taxed, and nothing can change this, short of a draconian international tax law.

I fail to see where tighter tax laws at this point would be draconian. Hell, they're so loose now it's wacky.

 

[Takamura-San]

If people voted on my 500k a year individual salary cap, we should be so fine.

 

[KingGondo]

Yeah, but lawmakers and the rich seem so allergic to tax that something like that as a 'tax break' would likely go over better.

They'd probably be even more against being "forced" to spend X% of their income.

Long story short, the wealthy won't like their wealth being redistributed no matter what label you put on it.

 

[Slavik81]

Isn't this due to movie stars, professional athletes, and CEOs making an insane amount of money compared to "rich" people?

It's also because if you are only making enough money to live, you will accrue no wealth. Consider a family earning 50k/year and spending 48k/year. Now consider a family earning 55k/year and spending 45k/year. Despite a relatively small difference in income and spending, the second family will have 83% of all wealth generated between the two of them.

 

[Maidenpool?]

Who still thinks America. Is a democracy?

It was never supposed to be a democracy. In practice, it's (supposed) to be a constitutionally-limited republic. It's only after the Iraq/Afghanistan attempt at exporting democracy and all the flowery talk that accompanied it did Americans begin to think "If we are praising a democracy, we must be one too, right?"

 

[The Technomancer]

They'd probably be even more against being "forced" to spend X% of their income.

Long story short, the wealthy won't like their wealth being redistributed no matter what label you put on it.

Which is where it gets really weird. Whats the point of accumulating raw savings? I mean, its not like a substantial amount of it is getting invested, its literally just sitting in accounts. This is what I call the "glitch in human psychology", we enjoy hoarding beyond the point of utility.

 

[Slavik81]

It was never supposed to be a democracy. In practice, it's (supposed) to be a constitutionally-limited republic. It's only after the Iraq/Afghanistan attempt at exporting democracy and all the flowery talk that accompanied it did Americans begin to think "If we are praising a democracy, we must be one too, right?"

Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws.

A republic is a democracy.

 

[not_so_special]

This attitude is what will keep the overlords in power for decades to come.

nailed the point..they can do this because of that attitude


i know its a nerd fantasy but sometimes a real version of this ( at least the whole lets fuck the rich people part) its a wet dream

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Which is where it gets really weird. Whats the point of accumulating raw savings? I mean, its not like a substantial amount of it is getting invested, its literally just sitting in accounts. This is what I call the "glitch in human psychology", we enjoy hoarding beyond the point of utility.

I've always wondered what the end-game was for the massive amounts of wealth that just sits around. Is it all intended to be an inheritance? Rainy day fund? Force society back into feudalism?

 

[Piecake]

This would be more disturbing if there was some finite amount of wealth that is distributed among the population. But there's not.

Well, one issue is that the 96% of the wealth generated since the crisis has gone to the top 1%. That shit aint trickling down

 

[Sanky Panky]

So how much money does the 1% make?

Enough to buy off most governments and central bankers around the world.

 

[afternoon delight]

Lub me this 1911 illustration, found it in the thread on the census numbers for this year I think...

 

[mackattk]

Which is where it gets really weird. Whats the point of accumulating raw savings? I mean, its not like a substantial amount of it is getting invested, its literally just sitting in accounts. This is what I call the "glitch in human psychology", we enjoy hoarding beyond the point of utility.

I have never been rich, but have enjoyed some sense of wealth in WoW when I used to play it years back. Totally different, I know... but it got to a point where I know I didn't need any more gold, but always liked seeing my stash grow. If I was going to make a purchase, I would think hard about it because I worked to earn that money, and didn't want to waste it.

On the other side, if I was poor, I didn't mind spending money - because I was poor anyway.

While I don't agree with the rich stashing money away, I can kind of see why they would. Then again, WoW is just a stupid game, and the rich are playing with actual lives of actual people. I would venture to say when you get to the level of wealth like the 1% have, it is more of a game and a competition. It is why some of the people on wall street complain that they don't make enough money, while bringing in a million a year.

 

[Slavik81]

I've always wondered what the end-game was for the massive amounts of wealth that just sits around. Is it all intended to be an inheritance? Rainy day fund? Force society back into feudalism?

They want to see numbers go up. It's like a game of cookie clicker. There is no purpose to that wealth.

 

[J2 Cool]

Its a game of monopoly were walking into to that's already won.

 

[Maidenpool?]

A republic is a democracy.

Since we don't have many kings and queens around anymore, today's republics and democracies are almost inseparable. However, I said the U.S was supposed to function as a "constitutionally-limited republic," meaning a republic with a very de-centralized authority. But that was pre-1913... and after the 17th amendment, things have pretty much resembled a regular democracy.

 

[Lamel]

What's the point of making this much money?

You will die without ever spending it...why keep obsessing and hoarding it?!

 

[Piecake]

What's the point of making this much money?

You will die without ever spending it...why keep obsessing and hoarding it?!

Status and adulation. Of course, only the useful billionaires receive that treatment while that AIG guy and some Wall Street leaders are left confused and deluded why everyone hates them. Idiots should realize its not about making money, but making something new, creative or being generous with your money.

 

[Maidenpool?]

Lub me this 1911 illustration, found it in the thread on the census numbers for this year I think...

I'm fairly certain that illustration (or a slightly modified version of it) was used to fire-up the proletariat against the aristocracy during the Russian Revolution. If anyone here is advocating for anything like that to ever happen again, please let me know in advance so I can get the hell out of dodge.

 

[Fenderputty]

What's the point of making this much money?

To incentivize all the poors to pull up their bootstraps and get to workin'

 

[G.O.O.]

You know something's wrong when even the IMF chief, a right-wing woman in a right-wing organization, says the world needs more redistribution.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324266904578463203734015058.html

 

[sans_pants]

Isn't this due to movie stars, professional athletes, and CEOs making an insane amount of money compared to "rich" people?

No. Athletes and entertainers are rich. The people who write their checks are wealthy. Big difference

 

[Maidenpool?]

To incentivize all the poors to pull up their bootstraps and get to workin'

The reason so many individuals and corporations are sitting on their cash is because they are anticipating another dip in the market or something far worse.

The reason your economy is practically on life support isn't because of people sitting on their savings, it's because of your debt. There is a simple fact out there that your country is the brokest nation in the history of the earth. You are living beyond your means on a scale greater than anyone in history. Your total debt is what, something like 17 trillion? And the combined wealth of the 400 wealthiest people in your country is around 1.5 trillion? Even if you jailed them overnight and took all their money, it wouldn't make any difference in solving your problem. Your interest rates are at zero, and have been for a while, and nobody is borrowing because they understand that it will be hard to pay it back when you finally decide to pay the piper.

I understand to many of you these points will be labeled as "boring" or "conservative."
I like to think of them as "reality."

 

[.GqueB.]

Really? We can definitely do something about it. The middle and lower class is much bigger than the top 20%. It's too bad most of these people are uneducated and have no idea how to make decisions for themselves.

Yea but what "decisions" are we talking about here? I share the sentiment of the poster you replied to. Yes the wealthy make TONS more money than I do. They make more money than most of us but I'm going to assume that most of gaf isn't part of the 1%.

And you know what?

There are still people on the gaming side buying the PS4. GTA5 sold millions in a day. You're going to buy a tv on black friday. You're going to have a great christmas. You enjoy the internet. You're doing just fine.

I'm generalizing of course but the reality is, no matter how much these people make, it's not affecting the people that have the opportunity to do something about it. I make about 50k a year as a designer which is fine for my lifestyle. I see this video and I get pissed but what do I do? Quit my job and go camp out in a park? March? Protest? This fundamentally isn't affecting me. And the poor have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet so they can't realisitcally do anything. It's a simple matter of figuring out who will be that catalyst for change.

The people that it matters to the most can't do shit and the people that CAN do the most (the middle class) won't do shit. So no one does anything but share this video on facebook because at the end of the day that's all you're capable of doing anyways.

 

[Piecake]

The reason so many individuals and corporations are sitting on their cash is because they are anticipating another dip in the market or something far worse.

The reason your economy is practically on life support isn't because of people sitting on their savings, it's because of your debt. There is a simple fact out there that your country is the brokest nation in the history of the earth. You are living beyond your means on a scale greater than anyone in history. Your total debt is what, something like 17 trillion? And the combined wealth of the 400 wealthiest people in your country is around 1.5 trillion? Even if you jailed them overnight and took all their money, it wouldn't make any difference in solving your problem. Your interest rates are at zero, and have been for a while, and nobody is borrowing because they understand that it will be hard to pay it back when you finally decide to pay the piper.

I understand to many of you these points will be labeled as "boring" or "conservative."
I like to think of them as "reality."

Id simply say incorrect. Japan has a much higher dept to GDP ratio. We aren't in the top five. And the reason why our economy is puttering along is because of a lack of consumer demand due to high expenses and low wages - i.e. inequality

 

[The Technomancer]

The reason so many individuals and corporations are sitting on their cash is because they are anticipating another dip in the market or something far worse.

The reason your economy is practically on life support isn't because of people sitting on their savings, it's because of your debt. There is a simple fact out there that your country is the brokest nation in the history of the earth. You are living beyond your means on a scale greater than anyone in history. Your total debt is what, something like 17 trillion? And the combined wealth of the 400 wealthiest people in your country is around 1.5 trillion? Even if you jailed them overnight and took all their money, it wouldn't make any difference in solving your problem. Your interest rates are at zero, and have been for a while, and nobody is borrowing because they understand that it will be hard to pay it back when you finally decide to pay the piper.

I understand to many of you these points will be labeled as "boring" or "conservative."
I like to think of them as "reality."

People have hoarded wealth for long before the US began incurring debt

 

[maniac-kun]

How about taxing the rich people more? The look like they have some spare money.

 

[xenist]

The reason so many individuals and corporations are sitting on their cash is because they are anticipating another dip in the market or something far worse.

The reason they are sitting on all this money is because it is literally impossible to spend it. Not without annihilating the global economy. The huge majority of it just stays in a closed positive feedback loop, inflating and inflating to its present monstrous size.

The greed of rich people broke capitalism.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

yep. oh you want to fix this. a democractic system means that everyone has an equal say, surely, so we can use this to rebalance things. oh except inequality makes poor people feel marginalized and hopeless making it hard to avoid cynicism and use political systems to change things. that's okay though, there can be a candidate that inspires them. except said candidate needs to raise a billion dollars to compete in an american presidential election and that isn't happening without ruling class support and kowtowing to them. oh but you can just do it if everyone really gets behind them there's so many volunteers, there's enough. except oh people's source of information on the world beyond their doorsteps comes from news stations owned by massive companies benefiting from the status quo and financed by advertising from companies beneffiting from the status quo. well uh good luck.

Random ass idea, and I'm sure it'd open the door to new forms of abuse but...could we kickstart politicians? Big candidates already draw upon a lot of public donors, but I'm wondering if actual crowdfunding for the smaller ones could make any kind of splash.

 

[Fenderputty]

The reason so many individuals and corporations are sitting on their cash is because they are anticipating another dip in the market or something far worse.

The reason your economy is practically on life support isn't because of people sitting on their savings, it's because of your debt. There is a simple fact out there that your country is the brokest nation in the history of the earth. You are living beyond your means on a scale greater than anyone in history. Your total debt is what, something like 17 trillion? And the combined wealth of the 400 wealthiest people in your country is around 1.5 trillion? Even if you jailed them overnight and took all their money, it wouldn't make any difference in solving your problem. Your interest rates are at zero, and have been for a while, and nobody is borrowing because they understand that it will be hard to pay it back when you finally decide to pay the piper.

I understand to many of you these points will be labeled as "boring" or "conservative."
I like to think of them as "reality."

Corporations are sitting on cash because there's not enough demand to force them to spend it on human capital to meet that demand.

As has been pointed out, our debt to GDP ratio isn't the highest and most of it, about 2/3, is owed to ourselves.

Are you talking about personal loans the bottom? Paying the piper?

 

[Maidenpool?]

Id simply say incorrect. Japan has a much higher dept to GDP ratio. We aren't in the top five. And the reason why our economy is puttering along is because of a lack of consumer demand due to high expenses and low wages - i.e. inequality

You mean lower debt to GDP ratio, If I remember yours is much lower than the states. I know absolutely nothing about the Japanese economy either, so I'm all ears.

 

[Piecake]

You mean lower debt to GDP ratio, If I remember yours is much lower than the states. I know absolutely nothing about the Japanese economy either, so I'm all ears.

You'd be wrong

Japan recorded a Government Debt to GDP of 211.70 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2011. Government Debt To GDP in Japan is reported by the Ministry of Finance Japan. From 1980 until 2011, Japan Government Debt To GDP averaged 112.1 Percent reaching an all time high of 211.7 Percent in December of 2011 and a record low of 50.6 Percent in December of 1980. Generally, Government debt as a percent of GDP is used by investors to measure a country ability to make future payments on its debt, thus affecting the country borrowing costs and government bond yields. This page contains - Japan Government Debt To GDP - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

The United States is expected to record a Government Debt equivalent to 101.60 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2012. Government Debt To GDP in the United States is reported by the U.S. Bureau of Public Debt. From 1940 until 2012, the United States Government Debt To GDP averaged 60.3 Percent reaching an all time high of 121.7 Percent in December of 1946 and a record low of 31.7 Percent in December of 1974. Generally, Government debt as a percent of GDP is used by investors to measure a country ability to make future payments on its debt, thus affecting the country borrowing costs and government bond yields. This page contains - United States Government Debt To GDP - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news. 2013-10-03

 

[Fenderputty]

You mean lower debt to GDP ratio, If I remember yours is much lower than the states. I know absolutely nothing about the Japanese economy either, so I'm all ears.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt-to-GDP_ratio

 

[maniac-kun]

Heres something fitting from George Carlin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYZpWTvre9c