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Videogame developer jobs
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Bartman3010
Banned
I just wonder how often it takes to start and finish coding for a game, and if theres any free time availible, or if the programming work lasts as long as the total development time of the game? (I think it does, not too sure)
Borys said:
The unfortunate truth is that programming games that are technically up to standard is a ridiculously difficult task, requiring every skill from database management, graphics programming and organization, memory management, compression, encryption, etc. etc. etc. all in the name of entertainment. And that's just from the programming side. The thing is, as far as programming is concerned, you'll be hard-pressed to find a job that ISN'T easier than making games. That's the biggest concern one should have if they want to program in the games industry as opposed to a much easier job that pays just as well if not better.
That's why my game development is strictly limited to a hobby. And even the hobby project I committed myself to (which isn't even a game as much as it is a game engine, so I don't even have to worry about crap like making graphics or sound! Oh, and it's 2D too) is still harder than the program I've been contracted to create on a trial pay rate of $12.50/hour (I'm still in school). But hey, if you really want to make games, then go for it. Just make sure you know what you'll be getting yourself into.
(and just to be clear, this was a general post, not specifically to you Borys
)Bartman3010 said:
I can't comment on mobile or handheld development since that is not my business but let's say the average next-gen game takes about 5 years to complete with a team of 5 programmers, 5 modellers, 5 texture/concept artists and a couple of leveldesigners and managers. Most of the time programmers are already starting when the game is in 'concept-phase' and they finish after the beta test (well some games still get tons of bugfixes after their release). Personally I don't mind because I have to take decisions and I'm free to suggest features and even gameplay elements (but that might not be the case in every company).
Animal
Banned
Ok well Im in Computer Science and im specializing in Software Systems which means coding!!! Does each system have its own language and at what level is it? Is it basically assembly language, a Java type or is it like a C language in between? Because I plan on giving programming in the game industry a very good shot.
Programming is all the time, artists usually finish early but depending on the company get then shifted to other projects.Bartman3010 said:
In addition to that, you will also have to work with artists and designers which think in different ways. This isn't usually the case in your typical IT shop. For experienced people, this industry is not really an employers market as a whole.jman2050 said:
The standard language is pretty much C++, the only exception are a few of the handheld platforms where you'll find last vestiges of C, and of course Java on the phones.Animal said:
Asm is not often required - but it helps to be able to read it (especially when looking for compiler fuckups) - and on most platforms it helps a great deal to understand the underlying architecture and performance implications of writting different types of code for it. Especially with this new generation of consoles (and the previous one) it's gotten to the point where it's very easy to write code that will do really bad things if you don't understand how the compiler and hardware work together.
jman2050 said:The unfortunate truth is that programming games that are technically up to standard is a ridiculously difficult task, requiring every skill from database management, graphics programming and organization, memory management, compression, encryption, etc. etc. etc. all in the name of entertainment. And that's just from the programming side. The thing is, as far as programming is concerned, you'll be hard-pressed to find a job that ISN'T easier than making games. That's the biggest concern one should have if they want to program in the games industry as opposed to a much easier job that pays just as well if not better.
That's why my game development is strictly limited to a hobby. And even the hobby project I committed myself to (which isn't even a game as much as it is a game engine, so I don't even have to worry about crap like making graphics or sound! Oh, and it's 2D too) is still harder than the program I've been contracted to create on a trial pay rate of $12.50/hour (I'm still in school). But hey, if you really want to make games, then go for it. Just make sure you know what you'll be getting yourself into.
(and just to be clear, this was a general post, not specifically to you Borys
Nail on the head.
In addition to that DB coding is so... boring, I mean you can only do so much forms, reports, queries and optimizations of WHILE-SELECT statements before it becomes a chore (of course everything from the code, no wizards here
Gaming stuff is much more exciting.
Personally I LOVE the encryption problems while HATING the general security stuff.
Necroscope
Member
This is my story. I got my first job in the industry as a co-op programmer in a game company. After graduation from the university with a computing science degree, I worked for two more game companies as a programmer. However, i always want to be a game designer. I like to analysis what make games fun and what techniques are being used to achieve that. I also like to dream up game ideas and try to break it down and see if those ideas can be executed. Above all, I love creative work more than programming. Nonetheless, it defintely gives you an edge to know about programming because it is good to have the technical knowelge to understand various constraints in game development and help you communicate to programmers who implement your design. One day, an opportunity came by and I seized it and I have been designing game for 3+ yrs since then. I know people with no industry experience who join the industry as junior designers get very low paid. I also think that is not the best career move for the long run. Being a programmer, an artist or a produciton stuff first will give you invaluble experience and insight to game development process. Only with experience like that will give you the right persepctive as to why design is needed and important in practice and how a single design idea/feature will get shape and mold until it become something tangible that you can play. Being able to see how game design got impelment as one of the implementers will change how you approach your design forever. None of the best designers that I've meet or work with start out as designers. They all have mixed experience in different areas of game development.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Rule of thumb:
Working at publisher >>>>>>> working at developer
In all cases where developer doesn't have a control point on IP or key middleware.
Working at publisher >>>>>>> working at developer
In all cases where developer doesn't have a control point on IP or key middleware.
Chittagong said:
Hmmm..... I would disagree but then everybody's experience is probably unique. I much prefer working as I do currently for a medium sized developer. Everything I do is within my/our own grasp. I know that relationship is different from developer to developer where publishers yank the strings via milestone payments. I think each situation is ultimately unique depending on how much trust is handed to the developer.
D2M15 said:
I actually have found that a good amount of disconnection from the project (in any creative field) is good and healthy--when it's your job. As you said, the project survives without you, so I've found it's important to maintain an emotional distance, to have little to no emotional stake, in the project, because most games are made by committees and chances are you're not heading that committee. When the creative process must scale to large development teams, creative compromise is necessary.
Of course, the caveat is that the less of yourself you put into the project, the less of yourself you put into the project. It's basic risk/reward, and I should also note I think this same idea applies to any human relationship as well.
To prospective designers, I have the following slightly unconventional advice: don't be hardcore gamers. For two reasons:
1) It's better to be well-rounded. Personally I think it's far more important to have grounding in a lot of areas (literature, film studies, math, philosophy, psychology, graphic design, etc.) than to have all your expertise in games. In my opinion, the better designers think in terms of other media as much as games. The video game is a relatively young artform and it's not going to grow and prosper if the only people who participate in its creative process are people who play games/watch anime all day. (Yes, I know, bad caricature.) Plus, to an employer you're going to look more interesting/unique if you have an interesting background and a variety of interests.
2) You might break your own heart. When you cross that line from player to creator, you can never go back. There's something to be said for the naive enjoyment of an artform without an understanding of its inner workings (something that I value greatly in my enjoyment of music, for instance). Once the veil is lifted, the magic is largely gone. You will likely become a more critical, more selective game player, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. For myself, when I play games I can't play them naively, as I once did, because the designer side of me is continually scrutinizing. I think this is similar for a lot of game developers.
I knew when I was going to try and head into this field work that it was not going to be about lots of money or good hours. Fortunately, as most people know I don't devote any of my time to trivial things like relationships so I'm a little bit prepared in that regard.
As for why this industry? Well, I've loved games all my life and it only seemed fit that I would eventually design them. That is my ultimate hopeful career goal, to be either the producer or director (whichever one is responsible for the Game Design Document in a particular development studio).
Still, while I havent entered the industry yet (hopefully will soon as I graduate next summer), I've heard how it can be quite difficult to get a job. Most developers want exceptional talent and you have to show that you can do "professional" quality work, not amateurish "student quality" work.
I'll probably have to start out as an artist though. While I've been trained in many fields (animation, scripting, etc.), my strengths have usually either been overall concepts or environment/architecture design/art.
If you're thinking about going to a trade school, you had better make it clear that this really is the field you want to enter in, because most of these schools are not cheap and you can easily find yourself in debt to many student loans. You can see why many developers want someone who is "passionate" about games in their job listings. If you don't care for games that much, then you're likely to hate the job and the last thing developers want in their "teams" is a person with a crappy attitude.
I've been lucky enough to have a teacher who works in the industry who is a down to earth and brutualy honest guy. He will tell you if you're work is nice of if its a piece of shit, and that that kind of honesty is what you have to be prepared for in the industry because obviously a company isn't going to hire you if your work looks like crap. Though the thing is, I believe its just as important for people to be able to model/texture efficiently, because you can have something look nice but it was made with an obscene amount of polygons or memory-eating high-rez textures. Efficient modeling, texturing is still important even with our generation change in progress now.
As for why this industry? Well, I've loved games all my life and it only seemed fit that I would eventually design them. That is my ultimate hopeful career goal, to be either the producer or director (whichever one is responsible for the Game Design Document in a particular development studio).
Still, while I havent entered the industry yet (hopefully will soon as I graduate next summer), I've heard how it can be quite difficult to get a job. Most developers want exceptional talent and you have to show that you can do "professional" quality work, not amateurish "student quality" work.
I'll probably have to start out as an artist though. While I've been trained in many fields (animation, scripting, etc.), my strengths have usually either been overall concepts or environment/architecture design/art.
If you're thinking about going to a trade school, you had better make it clear that this really is the field you want to enter in, because most of these schools are not cheap and you can easily find yourself in debt to many student loans. You can see why many developers want someone who is "passionate" about games in their job listings. If you don't care for games that much, then you're likely to hate the job and the last thing developers want in their "teams" is a person with a crappy attitude.
I've been lucky enough to have a teacher who works in the industry who is a down to earth and brutualy honest guy. He will tell you if you're work is nice of if its a piece of shit, and that that kind of honesty is what you have to be prepared for in the industry because obviously a company isn't going to hire you if your work looks like crap. Though the thing is, I believe its just as important for people to be able to model/texture efficiently, because you can have something look nice but it was made with an obscene amount of polygons or memory-eating high-rez textures. Efficient modeling, texturing is still important even with our generation change in progress now.
My friend works as a game programmer/PR guy. He didn't have a degree or anything, but he got hired over a lot of younger college graduates simply because he devoted 12 hours a day for 4 years to learning how to code. Since most game geeks are horribly anti-social he also got the job of being a PR guy because "he is good with people." He loves his job, though. He and the other developers usually spend all day at work and hang out until 10-11pm. They just watch movies and play games, etc. He makes a good salary. They also have complete control over the content of their games because they make the games and then sell them off to publishers, rather than simply working for a publisher. They are not particularly profitable in this venture (as you might imagine), so they do a lot of other corporate/industrial software development. You just have to find the right place to work for.