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Videogame Hardware Failures Abound. Why?

chemicals

chemicals

Member
I'm a proud owner of an Xbox 360 comin' at you with a red ring of light blazing brightly. I also used to own a Nintendo DS with a cracked hinge. I ALSO own a Playstation 2 that works about 50% of the time after being operated on by yours truly TWICE to stop DRE's.

From what I hear, the PS3 already has problems with controller sync and unresponsiveness.

It's time for us gamers to demand answers. Why is gaming hardware so prone to failure?? I have a first gen DVD player (remember the Divx format? the actual Divx discs?? Well it sports that logo.. so yeah.. it's definitely first or second gen at the latest) and it still works every time. Why can't my 360 just keep working? I don't abuse it in the least. My PS1 and PS2 gave me problems throughout both of their short lives.

I'm pissed. And high. peace.
 
why does anything fail? cost cutting, cheap manufacturing, lack of quality control, poorly made components, poor firmware programming and poor design.

This isn't limited to game systems. when i first got my treo 650 it would go into a reset loop just sitting on my desk, my first blackberry had a faulty usb port right out of the box, the treo 680 had a software defect that caused shitty battery life, my ps2 wouldn't read discs because of a speck of dust on the laser rail, my sony ericson phone got dust under the screen, my ipod's battery wouldn't hold a charge after a year, my ibm thinkpad would freeze all the time for no apparent reason despite going in for repairs several times, i had six western digital hard drives fail on my in sequence, the ibm "deathstar" deskstar hard drive failures, and a couple of years back all kinds of computer mother boards were built with shitty capacitors that would eventually pop and ooze out whatever liquid is inside them. Not to mention the pet food fiasco from a couple months back. It's the price of mass manufacturing and being beholden to the bottom line.
 
Really, I don't care if something breaks so much as I just care how I'm treated afterwards. Here in the UK (and I assume Europe as a whole) we get a years warranty, sometimes two, on most products. From what I hear, in the US you can buy a console and only be covered for 90 days. That's ****ing insane.
 
I have found all electronics are getting more unreliable. I never returned or used the warranty for anything in my life but in just the past couple of years I can remember the following breaking down:

Viewsonic CRT monitor (lasted a few months)
LG LCD monitor (lasted a few days)
Phillips TV (three weeks)
Canon 350D (a week)
Xbox 360(8 months)
Xbox 360 (six days)

I'm not trying to point out brands either, because all brands are crappier nowadays.
 
Gamecube

Xbox

Rock solid. Wii/PS3/360 are good so far barring the 360 but they have random failures as well. Mostly due this firmware business and bricks.
 
Corporations export labour and manufacturing to third world nations because labour laws are nonexistant and people are forced (they arent "willing to") to work for next to nothing. Hence, Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo make more (or in MS and Sony's cases lose less) money.

Yay capitalism!
 
Nintendo's hardware has historically been rock solid, since the era of the "NES Blow Job."
That's a long time. If you're counting, thats the SNES, N64, GCN, GB, GBC, GBA, and DS. (no one actually owned a virtual boy, so it doesn't count.)

Sony made mistakes with the original Playstation, but the reliability of the PSone, PStwo, PSP, and PS3 are very good and fall either at or below typical failure rates for consumer electronics products. Even with the original Version of the PS2, a large majority of DRE's werent mechanical failure, but an issue with dust getting into the unit and onto the (not easy to clean) lens.

The issues with the 360 and the RROD are a completely different issue entirely. I don't think anyone's EVER released a console with such a bizarrely high failure rate. It's an anomaly, should be treated as such, and hopefully microsoft fixes it soon.

I have found all electronics are getting more unreliable. I never returned or used the warranty for anything in my life but in just the past couple of years I can remember the following breaking down:

Viewsonic CRT monitor (lasted a few months)
LG LCD monitor (lasted a few days)
Phillips TV (three weeks)
Canon 350D (a week)
Xbox 360(8 months)
Xbox 360 (six days)

I'm not trying to point out brands either, because all brands are crappier nowadays.
Click to expand...

er...or maybe you're just buying crap brands.

I've had samsung and sanyo cellphones (replaced about every two years) since 99. Never had any kind of failure. ever.

A 27 inch JVC since 99. Rock Solid. no spots on the tubes, nothing. Gave it to my brother and he's using it now.

A Kodak Digital Camera, bought maybe 2 years back. never any issue of any kind. gets a horrendous amount of use.

A Sony Digital8 handycam circa 2000. No failures.

An Onkyo receiver, circa 2001, with matching speakers. no issue.

A Sharp Aquos HDTV, circa 6 months ago. Rock solid, stellar picture, no issue. I could go on, but I wouldnt lay out a blanket statement like "all electronics are getting cheap" by the performance of an LG, a Phillips, and a Viewsonic you had.
 
I think the advent of disc-based consoles has ushered in a far greater number of hardware failures than the days of cartridges. It's so much easier for things to go wrong with discs, their lasers, the drives, etc. Not to mention newer technology means more heat and more fans and generally more hassle under the hood.

I've been treated to defective consoles since the days of the Dreamcast, so hardware failures are pretty much a norm here. As long as the store/manufacturer is willing to stand behind their product via a replacement program or extended warranty, I can usually sleep sound at night.
 
disappeared said:
I think the advent of disc-based consoles has ushered in a far greater number of hardware failures than the days of cartridges. It's so much easier for things to go wrong with discs, their lasers, the drives, etc. Not to mention newer technology means more heat and more fans and generally more hassle under the hood.
Click to expand...


I don't know if I'd go that far. there was nothing more frustrating that going to put in a favorite NES game (or one you rented) and getting the dreaded "flashing blue screen" from poor connectors.
 
Manmademan said:
er...or maybe you're just buying crap brands.

I've had samsung and sanyo cellphones (replaced about every two years) since 99. Never had any kind of failure. ever.

A 27 inch JVC since 99. Rock Solid. no spots on the tubes, nothing. Gave it to my brother and he's using it now.

A Kodak Digital Camera, bought maybe 2 years back. never any issue of any kind. gets a horrendous amount of use.

A Sony Digital8 handycam circa 2000. No failures.

An Onkyo receiver, circa 2001, with matching speakers. no issue.

A Sharp Aquos HDTV, circa 6 months ago. Rock solid, stellar picture, no issue. I could go on, but I wouldnt lay out a blanket statement like "all electronics are getting cheap" by the performance of an LG, a Phillips, and a Viewsonic you had.
Click to expand...
Please don't spew anecdotal evidence to support the supposed quality of different brands. Regarding those 'good' brands you posted about.

We had a Sharp microwave die, Sharp acknowledged it was a fault in their manufacturing process, and then refused to replace it or repair it. Do I think all Sharp products are crap because of it? No.

A friend of mine has a Samsung DVD player which is only a couple of months old and already is refusing to read DVDs without trying numerous times to put it in. Do I think Samsung are all crap because of it? No.

And don't get me started on Sony products that I have had issues with which includes two Trinitron CRTs and a CD player.

I agree that LG and Phillips are not so-called 'high-quality' brands and I did not buy the particular products expecting them to be so. Viewsonic used to produce certain CRTs which were highly regarded for their colour accuracy. My house if full of supposed 'quality' electronics such as Samsung, Panasonic, Denon, Yamaha, Apple and they have all been fine, but it doesn't mean other people don't have them stuff up. My point was that generally, I have found electronics are breaking down more and more often.
 
I still blame the users, at least partly (well, except if the problem is as staggering as with 360 or very early PS2s). I've owned about 70% of all consoles and handhelds released since NES and have had exactly 0 break on me. I did have to fix my PS2s disc drive a short while ago though -- after an estimated 3000 hours of use. However, I normally buy platforms only after sufficient reasons (i.e. games) have built up, which usually takes 1 to 2 years.

Anyway, I dispute the whole premise of the thread. I don't believe there are universally more failures than before -- just 2 things make it seem so: the 360 problems and the powers of the internet.
 
Why do they abound? Because gamers don't care and the companies that make the hardware know they can get away with it. What kind of message does it send when gamers rebuy their 360 multiple times and put up with all the crap the hardware companies throw at them? I rebought my PS2 because of the DRE problem and one time was enough for me to say never again. I can't imagine those gamers that rebuy console after console or continue to pay out tons of shipping or repair fees.

Gaming hardware quality has been going down the toilet and until gamers finally say enough is enough nothing will change and the big hardware companies will continue to take us for a ride.
 
Scrubking said:
Why do they abound? Because gamers don't care and the companies that make the hardware know they can get away with it. What kind of message does it send when gamers rebuy their 360 multiple times and put up with all the crap the hardware companies throw at them? I rebought my PS2 because of the DRE problem and one time was enough for me to say never again. I can't imagine those gamers that rebuy console after console or continue to pay out tons of shipping or repair fees.
Click to expand...

YES YES. I still can't believe this is happening. THIS is what needs to stop. And NOW.
 
I've had two 360s break within a week of each other in April 06, but their replacements have been running fine since.

I've also had several problems with my PS3 already despite owning it for 5 days. First I had to figure out why I'd always see rolling color bars in most games, and after much web searching found out the PS3 has a grounding issue, which a 79 cent grounding adapter fixed. Then one time I started up the PS3 and all my settings were wiped and I had to re-do 'em all. Also, the controller frequently locks and you can't make any inputs on it for 2-3 seconds.

I assume my Wii is fine, but I haven't turned it on since December.

So, yeah, hurrah for next gen. Risky business. :p
 
chemicals said:
I'm a proud owner of an Xbox 360 comin' at you with a red ring of light blazing brightly. I also used to own a Nintendo DS with a cracked hinge. I ALSO own a Playstation 2 that works about 50% of the time after being operated on by yours truly TWICE to stop DRE's.

From what I hear, the PS3 already has problems with controller sync and unresponsiveness.

It's time for us gamers to demand answers. Why is gaming hardware so prone to failure?? I have a first gen DVD player (remember the Divx format? the actual Divx discs?? Well it sports that logo.. so yeah.. it's definitely first or second gen at the latest) and it still works every time. Why can't my 360 just keep working? I don't abuse it in the least. My PS1 and PS2 gave me problems throughout both of their short lives.

I'm pissed. And high. peace.
Click to expand...

It's a bluetooth problem that affects some of the units. Basically the system loses sync with the controller for about 5 seconds at random intervals. Some have experienced this and others have not. The issue was rumored to be a hardware defect when someone discovered a Sony FCC filing detailing the use of a new bluetooth module in a new 80GB PS3 system back in March.
 
It's pretty much just the 360 failing between the current breed of systems.

*edit*

I don't want people to think I'm trolling here, so I can't leave it like that.

The 360 has the worst failure rate of the three systems primarily because they've got a bad design flaw that they refuse to fix as yet. Aside from that they've been out longer than the other two have and theres more of them out there. The more of any electronic device you ship the more likely it is that a percentage of failing ones will increase. (Especially if they're as poorly made as the 360 seems to be.)
 
Killthee said:
It's a bluetooth problem that affects some of the units. Basically the system loses sync with the controller for about 5 seconds at random intervals. Some have experienced this and others have not. The issue was rumored to be a hardware defect when someone discovered a Sony FCC filing detailing the use of a new bluetooth module in a new 80GB PS3 system back in March.
Click to expand...

New BluTooth module?

I'm not that familiar with BT tech...does that mean new hardware? I always assumed it was a software issue.

Because it does freeze my PS3...it scares me sometimes.

What's really odd is that when it works, it works fine for a whole week. When it doesn't, my PS3 freezes up whether I'm in game or in the XMB, and I'm doing something having to do with the BT headset (and because of that, I figured it was a software issue).
 
Made_In-China-706811.jpg
 
My guess is because the nature of console platforms and game exclusivity means less competition. If you want to take digital pictures, or listen to music, or play DVDs, or microwave your food, or whatever, there's a wide variety of brands of device to choose from. If Brand X's offering builds up a reputation for unreliability, consumers can easily buy Brand Y instead because the functionality is more or less the same. But if you want to play Xbox 360 (or PS2 or Sega CD or any other unreliable console) games, you don't have a choice with the hardware other than take it or leave it.
 
I wonder just how widespread the Wii overheating issue is, and if it's possible that a lot of people have it and don't notice it since it's just some dots. It's not exactly console death, but "Nintendo's hardware is solid" obviously doesn't apply this generation. Is a fix on the way, or possibly already implemented?
 
FightyF said:
New BluTooth module?
Click to expand...

I'm one of the PS3 owners that has this issue pretty frequently. Just the other day I lost a ranking match in VF5 because my fighter stood there like an idiot while I hammered buttons. Been killed in Oblivion dozens of times because of it and lost races in Motorstorm.

That said, all the reports I've seen suggest that the hardware rev Sony did in Europe fixed the issue on those boxes. Unfortunately, it seems like those of us who had the bad sense to buy the first model, and have the issue, are basically hosed. Sony doesn't acknowledge that it's a problem, and as far as I've heard there is no fix coming.

At some point, I suppose I'll have to do a trade-in and get one of the new boxes, because a disconnect between controller and console is a game-breaking flaw.
 
Manmademan said:
Sony made mistakes with the original Playstation, but the reliability of the PSone, PStwo, PSP, and PS3 are very good
Click to expand...

I know I've had some pretty bad luck with Sony products over the last 10 years. I worked at a FuncoLand during the PS1 era, and as you said, they made some mistakes alright. The return rate was so horrendous.

But I have to say that the PS2, in my experience is just as bad. My first one stopped. I had to get another one. Then I bought an HHD for it. It was defective. I replaced IT. Then, for the last two or three years, everything has been fine until a couple of weeks ago when I turned it on for the first time in half a year to discover that it won't read any discs.

Even my Sony Digicam crapped out on me.

Miraculously, my PSP is so far, so good. But Sony has definitely conditioned me to be scared of their products.
 
My worst experience is with my (launch batch) PS1. It worked for a few months before I had to position the machine upside down/vertically/slanted/etc to make some games work. A few more months after that, it died. My second PS1 is ok though, it worked perfectly for 2-3 years until I stopped playing it once I got a PS2. My experience with PS2 is much better, my first PS2 (fat type) worked fine for a around a year until my brother sold it, and my current PSTwo which I bought second-hand is still working fine after more than a year.
 
My fat PS2 is still going strong despite dropping it/spilling milk on it/leaving it on for days when dvds have finished. O and i use it as a CD Player all the time too. Ha.

My Gamecube will never die, nor my N64. My Xbox is fine, some disc reading problems on so-so scratched disks. Wii - fine.
 
Duane Cunningham said:
Even my Sony Digicam crapped out on me.

Miraculously, my PSP is so far, so good. But Sony has definitely conditioned me to be scared of their products.
Click to expand...

Really? I had three PS2s because they constantly threw DRE errors (although I accidentally blew one of them up, it was already starting the slide into DRE hell), but I've never had a problem with my Sony cameras. I own three different Sony cams, and even the oldest and most complex of the three is still running like a champ.

My PSP presumably is problem-free, but it's also been in a sock for about a year, buried in the bottom of a box.
 
This is why when it comes to electronics I usually stick to higher end stuff. I really like Sony products, somehow I've never had a problem with anything from them. I truly believe in "you get what you pay for" mentality, and its the reason why Sony products are generally more expensive than its competitors.
 
Pazuzu said:
Made_In-China-706811.jpg
Click to expand...
The only correct answer.

My made in china GC controllers fail sometimes to full throttle the analog stick in some directions, while my made in japan GC is next to unbreakable :(
 
Scrubking said:
...when gamers rebuy their 360 multiple times
Click to expand...

I'm on my third 360 since buying my original one in March 2006. The only thing that my broken 360's have cost me is game time. The replacement of two 360's has been solely on MS' dime.

I don't think there are too many 360 owners who are "rebuying" the console after it breaks. MS customer service seems more than willing to fix it or send out a replacement.
 
Manufacturing faults, lots of high-tech stuff, more parts, cheap parts etc.

My GameCube had DRE's within 5 months, my Xbox 360 within 2 days. Also "heat" has become a big issue, PS3 seems to be the most reliable so far. The Wii and Xbox360 both show signs of GPU's frying and dying. Firmware and updates are nice, but the change is your system gets bricked. Also no quality control, made by different companies, software that pushes the system to far. Lot's of people had complaints about the 360 when gears launched. Forza2 seems to be a new cause for 360's to die.
 
In the years running my store, I've seen nearly every problem under the sun.

NES:
- The metal pins that clamp unto the game cartridge wear and don't make full contact.

SNES:
- The plastic that encases the AC power nub snaps off.

PSX:
- Disk reader becomes offset by generated heat. Short-term solution was to play the system on it's side or even upside down. Eventually would become unreadable.
- The plastic disk clamp would eventually wear down from use causing three key support sections to break off causing the ball bearings to become dislodged.

Saturn:
- The disk reader would give up the ghost suddenly, but not from wear and tear.

Dreamcast:
- Early in it's life, certain games would not read if they were produced by certain factories.
- The disk reader would give up the ghost suddenly, but not from wear and tear.
- Heat would slightly morph the internal fan's casing causing it to jam.

PSOne:
- The plastic disk clamp would eventually wear down from use causing three key support sections to break off causing the ball bearings to become dislodged.
- The power cord would form a short in the thin wire and need replaced.

PS2 - Early:
- Handful of systems were defective out of the box.
- The system had many open vents which attracted immense amounts of dust. This would clog many areas of the laser requiring minor to precision cleaning. Eventually the disk reader would give up the ghost.
- If system fell, door would usually become dislodged and jammed. Easily fixable with tinkering, but most people don't know how.
- Two small plastic teeth on the laser arm guide it back and forth. Over time they could wear down causing the laser to become stuck.

Gamecube:
- Heat would slightly morph the internal fan's casing causing it to jam.
- The disk reader would give up the ghost suddenly, but not from wear and tear.

Xbox:
- The disk reader would give up the ghost suddenly, but not from wear and tear.
- Power supply would blow out from the stress of the power cable being insterted and removed or from gravity if the cable was hanging down sharply.
- Internal HDD would conk out.
- Motherboard would give up the ghost suddenly, but not from wear and tear.
- System would turn on as soon as plugged in. Would not turn off unless it was unplugged, and over all, very odd behaviour. Possibly tied to the power switch board, but more likely the Motherboard.

PS2 -Later:
- The disk reader would give up the ghost suddenly, but not from wear and tear.
- If system fell, door would usually become dislodged and jammed. Easily fixable with tinkering, but most people don't know how.

Xbox 360:
- Handful of systems were defective out of the box.
- The disk reader would give up the ghost suddenly, but not from wear and tear.
- The external power block would blow out.
- The door would start jamming when opening, but a slight touch as it jams would open it.
- The system would enter a startup lockdown intidicated by the three red rings. Often tied to the GPU chip overheating causing the screen to become pixiled.

PS2 - Slim
- The disk reader would give up the ghost suddenly, but not from wear and tear.
- The plastic yellow ring on the power port would wear and break from either heat or weak plastic. This would cause the system to be unable to recieve power properly.

PS3:
- Handful of systems were defective out of the box.
- Not enough time has passed to see longterm issues.

Wii:
- Handful of systems were defective out of the box.
- The GPU chip over heats causing the screen to become pixiled.
- Not enough time has passed to see longterm issues.
 
Maybe I'm just lucky but my systems don't seem to break. My launch Saturn and Playstation never broke. Launch PS2 still works and is used as my spare room dvd player. PS3 seems to be built to perfection, hasn't given me one problem. DSL seems to work fine but then again I never play the thing since I want a PSP :(.
 
milkham said:
why does anything fail? cost cutting, cheap manufacturing, lack of quality control, poorly made components, poor firmware programming and poor design.

This isn't limited to game systems. when i first got my treo 650 it would go into a reset loop just sitting on my desk, my first blackberry had a faulty usb port right out of the box, the treo 680 had a software defect that caused shitty battery life, my ps2 wouldn't read discs because of a speck of dust on the laser rail, my sony ericson phone got dust under the screen, my ipod's battery wouldn't hold a charge after a year, my ibm thinkpad would freeze all the time for no apparent reason despite going in for repairs several times, i had six western digital hard drives fail on my in sequence, the ibm "deathstar" deskstar hard drive failures, and a couple of years back all kinds of computer mother boards were built with shitty capacitors that would eventually pop and ooze out whatever liquid is inside them. Not to mention the pet food fiasco from a couple months back. It's the price of mass manufacturing and being beholden to the bottom line.
Click to expand...

To be fair, Electronics today are thousands of times more complex than devices just 10 years ago.. and and so on and so on. Still, consumer technology is sometimes a crap shoot. My father had a "Laptop" (read: would crush your lap if used as such) computer from Compaq years ago that was flawless, then bought a replacement that failed every other day.
 
watership said:
My father had a "Laptop" (read: would crush your lap if used as such) computer from Compaq years ago that was flawless, then bought a replacement that failed every other day.
Click to expand...


That may be why I tend not to get that upset when one of my consoles breaks, so long as the manufacturer takes care of me. I'm an IT guy who used to do warranty work for a major retail chain. I've seen huge batches of PCs and laptops shipped out with failing parts, running anywhere from Toshiba, who shipped an entire generation of laptops with nearly the same problem as the 360 (heat causing solder to melt, which in this case cause the two-sectioned motherboard to literally break away) to Dell who had a long run of laptops where the network cards would fail within a few weeks.

When I worked warranty, IBM shipped all their holiday stock of PCs with color-reversed sound plugs, so following the color coding would insure that you never heard a peep. We actually figured that one out for them when our phone lines exploded on Christmas eve as dads and moms around the country set up PCs from Santa and then got really pissed off.

This stuff is so common in the PC world that we barely notice it anymore.
 
I've never had a console die on me. I spilled chocolate milk all over my Dreamcast, which resulted in mechanical problems and the lid not opening, but that was my bad. I have to say, the PS3 feels Built Ford Tough, but my 360 freezes occasionally, and it's launch... everybody else I know with a launch 360 had to buy a new one...
 
As someone who works on electronics (not game consoles, or even consumer products, but anyway...), here is my list of reasons:

1: Lead free solder. It's new, it's great, it's non-toxic, it's required by law (or will be, depends on the product), and it's really still not as good as the old stuff for a variety of reasons. Google it if you want more info, but, I expect it's going to cause A LOT of high performance electronic components to fail faster than they would otherwise.

2: Electrical engineers learning mechanical design the hard way. There is too much heat in a modern computing system to ignore thermal design. This wasn't as true a number of years ago. Also, design verification now needs evaluate failures due to thermal-mechanical stresses within a system- when you heat stuff up, it expands, right? Well, cycle it enough and you can have a variety of problems.

3: Outsourcing for cost reductions. Yep, things are being made cheaper now. It's a cost thing, get over it. Sure, it's nice to say you want quality, but trust me, you don't really want to pay for it. Quality is only cost-effective up to a point, beyond which it's cheaper to do the warranty claims. If you lose the lottery, that sucks, but we all get less expensive products because of it.

Also, I really get a kick out of people listing off good and bad brands. Realize that a brand is just that, a brand, not necessarily the manufacturer. I do a lot of cycling, and I always get a kick out of people that think their bike is better because of a particular brand, when in reality they may be made in the same plant in Taiwan.
 
Mammothtank said:
NES:
- The metal pins that clamp unto the game cartridge wear and don't make full contact.
Click to expand...

I just learned how to fix this myself! My NES runs like new again! It is really the only thing that goes wrong with an NES

Nintendo does a pretty good job of making sturdy systems. I have NEVER had a nintendo product crap out on me.
 
Jon_Danger said:
I just learned how to fix this myself! My NES runs like new again! It is really the only thing that goes wrong with an NES

Nintendo does a pretty good job of making sturdy systems. I have NEVER had a nintendo product crap out on me.
Click to expand...

Yeah, nearly all of the problems are fixable. Since Yobo released a new version of the NES, I stopped repairing NESs.
 
You know, most things don't break.

You can't shrug it off as just modern high tech equipment. Gaming consoles have a much higher failure rate that other consumer electronics.
 
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