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[ZealousD]

A muscular dude running around in a Speedo and killing bad guys? We already have that, it's called an action hero.

I have a female friend who loves God of War and Gears of War. She thinks Kratos is hot.

 

[Lostconfused]

I have a female friend who loves God of War and Gears of War. She thinks Kratos is hot.

Chicks dig scars or so i heard. Plus theres the tragic and gripping story of him slaughtering his wife and daughter and then being all emo about it.

 

[EphemeralDream]

Some good female characters in games although still flawed:

-Carla Valenti (the detective) in Indigo Prophecy - she had a few moments where I think the designers' testosterone was talking but otherwise she was a good character and fun to play as.
-Xianghua in Soul Calibur. One of the most important characters in the story and she's not "bimboed out" as much as the rest. One of my fav. characters to play as.

Also from what I've seen, many of the female characters in FE don't conform too badly to the typical gaming stereotypes.


Important women in the games industry

Yoko Shimomura!!!
Yuka Tsujiyoko - Fire Emblem music
Michiru Yamane

Also isn't something like 50% of the Sims staff women? I can't remember if it was just for the Sims or for all of Maxis, too tired to remember.

 

[speculawyer]

Jade Raymond is probably the worst thing to happen for women in gaming in a long time, IMO. It's bad enough the industry objectifies the female characters in games, though to be utterly truth I'm not entirely upset about it >.>, but as I say it's bad enough we do it with characters, and yet here comes Jade Raymond prancing about all for the sake of PR and potential sales and hype as the fanboys ogle her. She's spitting in the faces of all other women who work in the industry, IMO. Maybe, it's entirely innocent and unintended and I apologize if it is, but the fact that ever since the "OMG JAAAAADE!!!!!1one" explosion, she now show's up every time there's an interview is pretty telling, again IMO.

Good points.

 

[Pureauthor]

-Xianghua in Soul Calibur. One of the most important characters in the story and she's not "bimboed out" as much as the rest. One of my fav. characters to play as.

Her butt was seemingly made out of jello in SC2, and she has some of the dumbest lines in the series.

Also from what I've seen, many of the female characters in FE don't conform too badly to the typical gaming stereotypes.

True. Although a lot of the girls wear short skirts to battle for some reason. Can't see that as being very practical.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

You guys ignored my post...you're still talking about what women wear and how they look...DER...that's the problem, what do women DO in games and in the industry...that's what we should be asking!

 

[fistfulofmetal]

Jade Raymond is probably the worst thing to happen for women in gaming in a long time, IMO. It's bad enough the industry objectifies the female characters in games, though to be utterly truth I'm not entirely upset about it >.>, but as I say it's bad enough we do it with characters, and yet here comes Jade Raymond prancing about all for the sake of PR and potential sales and hype as the fanboys ogle her. She's spitting in the faces of all other women who work in the industry, IMO. Maybe, it's entirely innocent and unintended and I apologize if it is, but the fact that ever since the "OMG JAAAAADE!!!!!1one" explosion, she now show's up every time there's an interview is pretty telling, again IMO.

 

[karasu]

Bingo

The fact that her breasts aren't growing out of her shoulders is progress, I suppose. But the idea that she's not an obvious scantily-clothed nerd-boy eye candy is just patently false.

She is no more scantily clad than ****ing Kratos.

 

[Y2Kev]

It's way wrong to blame Jade Raymond for the way people have reacted to her. The only problem I have with her is that she isn't a creative force on the project-- she's a producer-- and yet people throw all the praise onto her and short the actual designers. Oh, and she often comes off as a little googly-eyed in demonstrations.

But it's not her fault some people on gaf make threads called "Jade Raymond's Assassin's Creed." If she's good at her job, who cares if she is pretty?

 

[Death_Born]

Also from what I've seen, many of the female characters in FE don't conform too badly to the typical gaming stereotypes.

Although the story was awesome, she was a typical "non-speaking girl who is hot in a weird way" character, who seems to be used in every single game that has a mysterious subplot.

See Hotel Dusk:

 

[NovemberMike]

Actually, Halo has been pretty good about this. I really consider Cortana to be the main character (read up on Marathon to see the similarities. The player himself is simply a psychotic individual that has enough training to focus his anger on an "enemy" and remain coherent), and she and the other females are shown as intelligent, tough and generally well dressed.

 

[Pakkidis]

I still think April Ryan is one of the best female lead characters in a video game.



As for Jade, maybe if neogaf didn't drool every time she makes an appearance in the media things would be a bit better. The way some people talk about her its as if they never seen a women before.

 

[SOLDIER]

Representing everything wrong with videogame women.

Representing everything right.

 

[Avalon]

I don't see how Tifa represents everything "right." She was in the typical submissive role and in AC all she did is cling Cloud and even stopped fighting all together towards the end.

 

[Davidion]

She is no more scantily clad than ****ing Kratos.

Oh so as long she wears no less clothes than some guy wearing nothing but boots and a loin cloth it's perfectly ok! :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Yeah

 

[Davidion]

It's way wrong to blame Jade Raymond for the way people have reacted to her. The only problem I have with her is that she isn't a creative force on the project-- she's a producer-- and yet people throw all the praise onto her and short the actual designers. Oh, and she often comes off as a little googly-eyed in demonstrations.

But it's not her fault some people on gaf make threads called "Jade Raymond's Assassin's Creed." If she's good at her job, who cares if she is pretty?

Agreed. Regardless of sex/gender, there's always going to be some exuding of physical charisma, be it intentional or not, by someone who actually is physically attractive. While she's been the focus of a lot of nerd-boy oogling and while I'm sure neither her nor Ubisoft is loathing the attention nor the publicity drawn by her looks, it's hardly her "fault". She is attractive but is not flashing her assets left and right.

Hell, that's the kind of argument/rant against women that you often hear levied by misogynists.

 

[Death_Born]

The way some people talk about her its as if they never seen a women before.

What are these "women" you speak of?

 

[Davidion]

The way some people talk about her its as if they never seen a women before.

Q.E.D.? :lol

 

[captive]

Oh so as long she wears no less clothes than some guy wearing nothing but boots and a loin cloth it's perfectly ok! :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Yeah

You clearly missed the point....
so..

 

[Davidion]

You clearly missed the point....
so..

Really, and exactly what point did I miss? Maybe it'll become clearer to my oh so impotent mind and push the conversation along if you post some more gifs.

 

[SOLDIER]

I don't see how Tifa represents everything "right." She was in the typical submissive role and in AC all she did is cling Cloud and even stopped fighting all together towards the end.

Tifa works because she can fight every bit as well as a male character but retains her femininity throughout. She's hot enough for the guys, but the girls can appreciate her caring maternal side as well. Sure she ends up as a damsel in distress more than a few times, but her her dependency on Cloud works both ways; he needs her as much as she needs him.

Basically I like the fact that she fights like a man, but doesn't act like one. Other examples include Chun Li, Elly, Heather (SH) and most of the RE girls.

Rachel on the other hand is massive fail. Even on her sub-missions she ends up in danger, requiring Ryu to rescue her while the camera dramatically pans across her massive, consistently jiggling juggs. NG would be a far more badass experience if Rachel wasn't included to remind us that Team Ninja also did DOA.

 

[Oblivion]

Representing everything wrong with videogame women.

Representing everything right.

I think you got that reversed, amigo. :x

 

[captive]

Really, and exactly what point did I miss? Maybe it'll become clearer to my oh so impotent mind and push the conversation along if you post some more gifs.

Well lets see for starters, no one bitches that Kratos wears next to nothing, but if a girl hero does it, its perpetuating a terrible horrible stereo type of using girls for sex appeal.
Secondly if either of them were actually going into neither would be wearing nothing but a few pieces of cloth.

 

[Davidion]

Well lets see for starters, no one bitches that Kratos wears next to nothing, but if a girl hero does it, its perpetuating a terrible horrible stereo type of using girls for sex appeal.
Secondly if either of them were actually going into neither would be wearing nothing but a few pieces of cloth.

And Kratos isn't a gender stereotype by any means, eh?

You seem to miss the point that have been levied against the OP's claim, mainly, that the idea that Nariko is somehow a more realistic representation of "authentic" women in a game barely holds any water.

Kratos is a raging bulging bald headed mythical action hero, which makes him just as a huge gender stereotype as any ginormoboobied bikini thumping female eye candy. But that's not the main concern; there are many different types of male hero archetypes. The underlying issue is that save for a small group of examples, female characters are usually stereotype fodder and Nariko, while not as outrageous as the Soul Calibre/Rachel examples, is still overly-sexed up stylized eye-candy and is for the most part not some kind of more authentic representation of females. In fact, many examples of female characters who people feel DO come closer to representing that authentic ideal and who, often have their overt physical sexuality suppressed from a design POV, have been presented in this thread. What point, exactly, did I miss?

And as for your last point (and I'm assuming you left out the word battle after "going into" here so correct me if I'm wrong)...the ideal outfit for rushing into a horde of monsters, giants, and entire armies trying to wipe your lonely sword-wielding ass out is a few pieces of cloth? What?

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

holy crap, i am stroking as we speak.....oh yea....typing with one hand is hard.

 

[GamerSoul]

Her butt was seemingly made out of jello in SC2, and she has some of the dumbest lines in the series.

True.

True. Although a lot of the girls wear short skirts to battle for some reason. Can't see that as being very practical.

Even though FE does have some odd character attire at times, I think they do a great job in showing many different types of females.
From leaders

to trash

Just kiddin, Tethys was a very useful unit to have in battle.

 

[The M.O.B]

This is a very good example.

 

[CrushDance]

Titania owns

 

[polyh3dron]

There's another Jade pic for yall.

 

[NovemberMike]

Well lets see for starters, no one bitches that Kratos wears next to nothing, but if a girl hero does it, its perpetuating a terrible horrible stereo type of using girls for sex appeal.
Secondly if either of them were actually going into neither would be wearing nothing but a few pieces of cloth.

(Polybius, 2nd century BC .)
"The Romans... were terrified by the fine order of the Celtic host, and the dreadful din, for there were innumerable horn -blowers and trumpeters,and... the whole army were shouting their war-cries... Very terrifying too were the appearance and the gestures of the

naked warriors

in front, all in the prime of life and finely built men, and all in the leading companies richly adorned with gold torcs and armlets."
http://www.gallica.co.uk/celts/warriors.htm

History would like to disagree...

Spoiler

Ok, they did use shields...

 

[Pimpbaa]

So... more games featuring sexual tension between Gackt lookalikes?

Whatever it takes to make things equal. Just don't take away my scantily clad female characters with impossible proportions. Although the Gackt lookalikes span both genders due to Nomura's obsession with Gackt. He seems to striving for total androgyny. Not sure how that appeals to women's fantasies.

 

[probune]

Tifa works because she can fight every bit as well as a male character but retains her femininity throughout. She's hot enough for the guys, but the girls can appreciate her caring maternal side as well. Sure she ends up as a damsel in distress more than a few times, but her her dependency on Cloud works both ways; he needs her as much as she needs him.

Basically I like the fact that she fights like a man, but doesn't act like one. Other examples include Chun Li, Elly, Heather (SH) and most of the RE girls.

So she's a progressive view of females in video games because she can fight, appeals to both genders, and helps out Cloud a little bit in the game? Riiiight.

She's just as much of a stereotype as the rest of female characters in games and lots of other media as well - a big boobied, insecure, vain female whose only purpose in the story is to be a love interest to the main character and help him out with HIS story, not have one of her own.

Jade Raymond is probably the worst thing to happen for women in gaming in a long time, IMO. It's bad enough the industry objectifies the female characters in games, though to be utterly truth I'm not entirely upset about it >.>, but as I say it's bad enough we do it with characters, and yet here comes Jade Raymond prancing about all for the sake of PR and potential sales and hype as the fanboys ogle her. She's spitting in the faces of all other women who work in the industry, IMO. Maybe, it's entirely innocent and unintended and I apologize if it is, but the fact that ever since the "OMG JAAAAADE!!!!!1one" explosion, she now show's up every time there's an interview is pretty telling, again IMO.

I would think it's entirely unintentional on Ubisoft's part. To me it just reflects how most gamers are scumbags and try to bring her out as a positive example of NOT objectifying women when they just post pics of her because she's hot.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I would think it's entirely unintentional on Ubisoft's part. To me it just reflects how most gamers are scumbags and try to bring her out as a positive example of NOT objectifying women when they just post pics of her because she's hot.

Objectifying is a lie created by feminist extremists for men to feel bad about their sexuality.

 

[Cedeo]

There's another Jade pic for yall.

She's attractive, but you see these kind of people in the street everyday, but on gaf its just one massive wankfest for her.

 

[SOLDIER]

So she's a progressive view of females in video games because she can fight, appeals to both genders, and helps out Cloud a little bit in the game? Riiiight.

She's just as much of a stereotype as the rest of female characters in games and lots of other media as well - a big boobied, insecure, vain female whose only purpose in the story is to be a love interest to the main character and help him out with HIS story, not have one of her own.

Says the Beatrix fan.

 

[CrushDance]

Says the Beatrix fan.

uh oh.

 

[Pimpbaa]

She's attractive, but you see these kind of people in the street everyday, but on gaf its just one massive wankfest for her.

I think that the fact that she is involved with the making of a video game gives her extra attractive points.

 

[anotheriori]

So she's a progressive view of females in video games because she can fight, appeals to both genders, and helps out Cloud a little bit in the game? Riiiight.

She's just as much of a stereotype as the rest of female characters in games and lots of other media as well - a big boobied, insecure, vain female whose only purpose in the story is to be a love interest to the main character and help him out with HIS story, not have one of her own.

I think it depends on personal preferences. I think that Tifa from AC represents a more progressive type of female lead, while alot of GAF might really like Alyx and Jade imo they don't seem very feminine but rather butch looking. Of course alot of female designs are created for a male audience in mind you can't simply just make her unattractive or remove femininity (sexuality) from the design to try break the mold. It's sad that being overly macho and strong can work for a guy (what men think are positive traits for a hero) doesn't translate well over to female characters (attractive, sexy, and strong).

 

[crazyscreenwriter]

But it's not her fault some people on gaf make threads called "Jade Raymond's Assassin's Creed." If she's good at her job, who cares if she is pretty?

Ugly chicks?

 

[Ether_Snake]

Most male characters in games are muscular and oiled.

So STFU hypocrite feminists.

Case closed.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

i would be surprised if DICE had any females on their production/development team, but their new lead character in "mirror's edge" is pretty fly:

 

[rollingstart]

Most male characters in games are muscular and oiled.

So STFU hypocrite feminists.

Case closed.

people just want the Gordon Freeman for women in games.

 

[uprightcitizen]

The video game business is like most others, not really many females or minorities at the top. That aside it doesn't really make some games more prevalent then others or what say you. Still yes it would be nice to see some more.

And I'm ROLLING MY EYES so much that they are falling out at the Jade Raymond pics already here! *Rolls eyes*

I'm inclined to disagree with the minorities bit, considering how so many countries now have a massive hand in game development IE japan, korea, china, and tons of different countries in europe.

 

[CrushDance]

I'm inclined to disagree with the minorities bit, considering how so many countries now have a massive hand in game development IE japan, korea, china, and tons of different countries in europe.

Sorry I meant in the west.

 

[uprightcitizen]

Sorry I meant in the west.

ahhh point taken.

 

[crazyscreenwriter]

I'm inclined to disagree with the minorities bit, considering how so many countries now have a massive hand in game development IE japan, korea, china, and tons of different countries in europe.

Yeah but developers still manage to put out titles like RE5 where one white guys mows down row after row after row of crazed African men and women, and are likely oblivious to the fact that some people might have a problem with the way that would be perceived.

The video game industry is diverse in one way. However it happens to be a pretty homogenus diversity.

 

[Zoe]

I'm inclined to disagree with the minorities bit, considering how so many countries now have a massive hand in game development IE japan, korea, china, and tons of different countries in europe.

If they're developing in their country of origin, they're not a minority.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Most male characters in games are muscular and oiled.

I agree. There isn't exactly a shortage of muscular, oiled-up, pretty boys that can pass as male super-models starring in video games. Just check out some of the male characters in Resident Evil, Tekken, Virtua Fighter, FINAL FANTASY, Street Fighter, Contra, Ikari Warriors, Devil May Cry, Enchanted Arms, etc.

 

[Darkpen]

Its not a question of what gender of the producer/director/art director/script writer is, its a question of how that person or group of people wish to portray the female character(s) in the game (usually by the director).

Lara Croft was never meant to be as exploited as she was after the first Tomb Raider, with her face being slapped onto everything from car ads to almost being on panties.

Her original creator left for a reason, you know.

A great example of my argument being the truth is the recent double feature "Grindhouse." The female roles in both films are very strong, while the director of both films are both men, and neither are gay (as far as we know), so that particular trolling argument does not apply.

Then you have movie directors like Michael Bay, who's target audience is between 14-25 males, doesn't deny it, and delivers (as far as fanservice is concerned).

Like several people have already said, what does it matter if someone incharge of creative direction is a woman when all they're doing is essentially the same as the men as far as target audience is concerned? The violence factor in Heavenly Sword certainly isn't there with the female demographic in mind. The characters certainly are, as is "female empowerment," that I do not argue against, but the combat certainly isn't.

The producer for Ace Attorney/Phoenix Wright (or otherwise known as Gyakuten Saiban) is a woman, and her influence is fairly obvious.

If anything, however, I think products like Grindhouse and Heavenly Sword are what you get when you have men in charge that are integrating female empowerment into the story and action, but giving the male audience the violence and "coolness" they crave. That is not to say that women aren't an integeral part of the creative process in making these games and films, but the things that appeal to guys probably wouldn't be there.

And on a final note, Jade Raymond is hot.

 

[Death_Born]

The characters certainly are, as is "female empowerment," that I do not argue against, but the combat certainly isn't.

How so?

The producer for Ace Attorney/Phoenix Wright (or otherwise known as Gyakuten Saiban) is a woman, and her influence is fairly obvious.

Still doesn't explain Mia's bust...not that I have a problem with that.

That is not to say that women aren't an integeral part of the creative process in making these games and films, but the things that appeal to guys probably wouldn't be there.

That depends. As long as the game doesn't overtly critisize men, I wouldn't have a problem.

Spoiler

And on a final note, women in armor are hot.