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Violent standoff between Cops and Protesters in Baltimore

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Loakum said:
Looks like Sean Hannity has some Baltimore police on his show tonight, and all of a sudden a "anonymous source" claimed in some "report" that Freddy Grey injured himself in back of the police van. This sounds so ridiculous, it will probably work.
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It's not the first time I have heard of such an event occurring. Indeed, I have ran into one suspect who -- with open wounds, mind you -- stuffed dirty nearby items in their wounds just so they can go to the hospital to get medication. While as far-fetched as it may sound, it may be a possibility. I would take early leaked information with a grain of salt though as we should wait for officially released reports.
 
Patrol said:
It's not the first time I have heard of such an event occurring. Indeed, I have ran into one suspect who -- with open wounds, mind you -- stuffed dirty nearby items in their wounds just so they can go to the hospital to get medication. While as far-fetched as it may sound, it may be a possibility. I would take early leaked information with a grain of salt though as we should wait for officially released reports.
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NO FUCKING STOP THIS SHIT.

This man did NOT sever his own spine. So don't peddle this line of bullshit here. And if white collectively buys into this garbage then every city in this county deserves to go up in flames.
 
Patrol said:
It's not the first time I have heard of such an event occurring. Indeed, I have ran into one suspect who -- with open wounds, mind you -- stuffed dirty nearby items in their wounds just so they can go to the hospital to get medication. While as far-fetched as it may sound, it may be a possibility. I would take early leaked information with a grain of salt though as we should wait for officially released reports.
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Offiically released reports? Sounds so official.

They have spent this time crafting whatever bullshit they can stick together.
 
googleplex said:
NO FUCKING STOP THIS SHIT.

This man did NOT sever his own spine. So don't peddle this line of bullshit here. And if white collectively buys into this garbage then every city in this county deserves to go up in flames.
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We should aim to find out the complete, unadulterated, facts to what occurred regardless if it aligns with or against any preconceived notions that we may have.
 
I had a really stomach-churning night at work which really highlighted to me I think the weird perception a lot of people have when it comes to black people, and how the littlest incidents are inflated multiple times over:

I go out on break, and there's a black dude, about my age, sitting on the furniture we have on display, and just being overly talkative. He yells a bit, but to no one in particular, but he's also drinking in public and very visibly has a bottle of beer in his hand. He comes in the store, goofs around a bit with his friend who was sober, and then leaves, but our manager smells the beer on him, other customers complain, and they call the cops. Thankfully, it ends with the police not doing anything rash---they have a talk with him, and I guess his friend took him home. He even came back later sobered up to pick up his phone he left and apologized, so, really, no big deal.

You'd think that, but I had people asking me if it was "safe" to go out in the parking lot, and then all my co-workers freaking out thinking he'd pull a knife or gun on them. One of my coworkers I'm pretty sure kept muttering "they'll die out" multiple times, and another told me, in all seriousness, how police can do ANYTHING they want if you disobey them, and that includes shooting you if you run. The discussion about the dude---who I've seen plenty of times---was always "they're not from here!", or "there must be something going on in town!". It was really odd.

Sorry for going off-topic, but I thought it was an interesting anecdote that just shows how fucked things are. We've had plenty of drunk-in-public incidents over the years, but this is the first time I saw such a panic over it where people were visibly worried about their safety. It was just ridiculous how people were inflating it to be more than it was.
 
Fiction said:
I am not sure that applies, as I don't think those suspects had videos of them being dragged with legs dangling into a van and the police then exclaim they were perfectly fine when they were put in said van. And someone how got 'mysterious injuries' on the way.

There are reports going back many years of other suspects being thrown into a van unrestrained and knocked about in a 'rough ride'.

Also, it's got to be physically impossible to sever your own spine AND crush your own larynx without I dunno, knocking yourself out first?

It's be like if the dude was strangled and they claimed he just held his breath until he died.

But no, you are right, dude clearly did this to himself, despite video evidence and a history of such practices.
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It applies with respect to the mindset of the individual, and you never know what a person may, or may not, do while in custody. I have seen a lot of things in my life which still boggles the mind, especially in the custody setting where some individuals found joy in smearing their own feces on the walls. Again, sometimes finding sense in the things people do is frivolous.

I honestly couldn't tell you what is possible and what isn't, definitively, with respect to the human body and medically related scenarios.

I'm not sure why you think it is "clear" that he did it to himself, as such sarcasm requires that I stand by the idea in its current form. There is no evidence present to suggest he did outside of one, unconfirmed, leaked report which I would advise taking it with a grain of salt until we receive more information. Unfortunately, it appears news outlets are already out in full force presenting the newest information regardless if its accuracy can be confirmed or not.
 
Fiction said:
The problem is, respectfully, that the 'complete, unadulterated facts' in a lot of cases are completely controlled by those who would be painted in a bad light if they fucked up.

In this scenario, several cops are accused of wrong doing because a man was very badly injured in their custody. Those injuries later lead to his death. The official statement was that he was injured somehow while in transport, and that he wasn't injured before then. Then a video surfaces of the man that later died being drug to a van, with his legs dangling lifeless, screaming in pain. Incidents past surface, of suspects being treated to 'rough rides' where spinal injuries have occurred before. The official story is still claiming no wrong doing, but are 'investigating'. Those investigating have a very vested interest in not charging their friends and co-workers with murder, or tainting the reputation of their department, or maybe even not bringing to light some of their own past wrong doings.

Do you see why people would be leery of the 'official' story in light of all these things? Do you understand? When there is a consistent pattern of abuse among certain organizations, it makes people very suspicious.
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He was OBVIOUSLY screaming, "Let me sever my own spine! I need to somehow break my own spline 80% before we complete transport."

-_________-
 
Pretty sure Patrol would have given the South Carolina officer the benefit of the doubt, (even with the physical evidence pointing to the victim being shot while fleeing) if there were no video.
 
Some more information on the "Rough Ride" police practice and past documented incidents in Baltimore:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_ride_(police_practice)

A rough ride is an unsanctioned police practice in which a handcuffed prisoner is placed in a police van without a seatbelt, and is thrown violently about as the vehicle is driven erratically.[1][2] Other terms for the practice include "bringing them up front"[1], "screen test" (as the prisoner may hit the protective screen behind the driver),[3][4] "nickel ride" (a reference to carnival rides),[5][6] "cowboy ride",[2][7] and "joyride".[8] Rough rides have been implicated in a number of injuries sustained in police custody, including the death of Freddie Gray in Baltimore, Maryland in April 2015.[1][2][7] Throughout the U.S., police have been accused of using aggressive driving tactics to "rough suspects up", resulting in numerous injuries, and millions of dollars of damages.[5][7]

Baltimore lawyer Phil Federico described the practice as "definitely intentional", saying "they're unbelted, the inside of these wagons are not padded, they can't protect themselves, and they get thrown from one side to the other, usually landing on their head, and fracturing their neck."[2] University of South Carolina professor Geoffrey Alpert, an expert in police use of force, has asserted that the practice was common in the 1980s and 1990s, but has become less so with the increased presence of video recording equipment in police vehicles.[1] There are no reliable records of the frequency of these incidents.[5][7]

Baltimore

In 1980, 58-year old John Wheatfall broke his neck and became paralyzed during a ride to Baltimore's Southwestern District. Wheatfall was seated on a bench with his hands cuffed behind his back, when he was thrown to the floor and hit his head against the wall. Baltimore police vans did not have seatbelts at the time. The officer driving stated he had swerved to avoid an oncoming car, and an investigation did not find evidence of negligence. Wheatfall sued for $3 million, and was awarded $20,000 for his injury.[1]

In 2004, Jeffrey Alston was awarded $39 million after becoming paralyzed from the neck down as a result of a ride in a Baltimore police van.[1][2][7]

In 2005, Dondi Johnson Sr., a plumber, was arrested in Baltimore for public urination. Apparently uninjured at the time of his arrest, Johnson emerged from the police van paralyzed with a broken neck, and died two weeks later from pneumonia resulting from his injuries. Johnson stated he had been thrown face-first into the interior of the van during a sharp turn. His family sued the Baltimore police and were awarded $7.4 million, which was reduced to $219,000 under a cap imposed by Maryland state law.[1][7]

In 2012, Christine Abbott, a 27-year-old assistant librarian at Johns Hopkins University, was arrested at a party she was hosting at her home in Baltimore's Hampden neighborhood. She was handcuffed and put into a police van. Abbott later sued the officers in federal court, describing her ride as "like a roller coaster", and accusing the officers of braking short and taking "wide, fast turns" which slammed her into the walls. Police acknowledged that Abbot was not buckled in during her ride.[1][2][7]

The "rough ride" practice has been suggested as a factor in the 2015 death of Freddie Gray.[1][7] Gray was arrested on April 12th, and was conscious and able to speak before being placed into a police van.[1] Following a 30 minute ride, Gray was comatose and not breathing.[1] He was treated at the R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center of the University of Maryland Hospital, where his spinal cord was found to be 80% severed, an injury typical of a serious car accident.[7][1] Gray died a week after his arrest.[1] Medical experts say Gray may have sustained a neck injury during his arrest which could have been exacerbated accidentally during his transport.[1][7] Police acknowledged that Gray was not buckled in, contrary to Department policy.[1][2][7]
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There's a long history of this.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
Pretty sure Patrol would have given the South Carolina officer the benefit of the doubt, (even with the physical evidence pointing to the victim being shot while fleeing) if there were no video.
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Is it really surprising that cops will make huge leaps of logic to give each other the benefit of the doubt?
 
Enzom21 said:
Is it really surprising that cops will make huge leaps of logic to give each other the benefit of the doubt?
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ryutaro's mama said:
It's why nothing changes.
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You know, I don't even blame LEO's for having an internalized bias towards other officers accounts of events and taking that for granted as the only true account of what happened. I totally understand that.

Its that ability of some to place the full blame of death on the victim in almost every circumstance. Its that absolute utter lack of accountability that brings the situation to the point its gone.
 
Derwind said:
You know, I don't even blame LEO's for having an internalized bias towards other officers accounts of events and taking that for granted as the only true account of what happened. I totally understand that.

Its that ability of some to place the full blame of death on the victim in almost every circumstance. Its that absolute utter lack of accountability that brings the situation to the point its gone.
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That's my point. Most LEOs blame the suspect for everything, including their own demise. It is NEVER the result of police misconduct. That never even enters the equation unless there is an avalanche of evidence, i.e. South Carolina.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
That's my point. Most LEOs blame the suspect for everything, including their own demise. It is NEVER the result of police misconduct. That never even enters the equation unless there is an avalanche of evidence, i.e. South Carolina.
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The police shouldn't even be investigating themselves to begin with. It shouldn't matter what other officers think about each other. We desperately need a second institution whose sole job is to tear these departments a new asshole when a complaint gets filed or misconduct / crime needs to be investigated. Full. Fucking. Stop. They will comply or they will be arrested for obstruction of justice and tried as an accomplice / accessory to whatever the main point is being investigated. I am sick and tired of treating this institution with wishy washy, kid glove wearing bullshit.

1) Bust their union.
2) Strip them of their ability to investigate themselves for anything.
3) Require hardcore bookkeeping of arrest statics / practices and investigate regularly for racial biases.

It is glaringly obvious this institution is incapable of policing itself. It must be relieved of this responsibility.
 
If it is a "rough ride" how do you prove that?

In the video he cant even walk and is in pain before he gets in the van. Seems like an easy defense in court againt rough ride causing the injury. Then you have reports of him trying to hurt himself after the 2nd suspect is in the van. If thats true i dunno how they can charge the van driver.

But he arrested in front of a bunch of witnesses but everyone focused on the ride in the van.

I can easily see no one getting arrested over this. All this is very hard to prove. I hope they start leaking more information to calm everyone. If not its going to go off like an abomb.
 
Fiction said:
The problem is, respectfully, that the 'complete, unadulterated facts' in a lot of cases are completely controlled by those who would be painted in a bad light if they fucked up.

In this scenario, several cops are accused of wrong doing because a man was very badly injured in their custody. Those injuries later lead to his death. The official statement was that he was injured somehow while in transport, and that he wasn't injured before then. Then a video surfaces of the man that later died being drug to a van, with his legs dangling lifeless, screaming in pain. Incidents past surface, of suspects being treated to 'rough rides' where spinal injuries have occurred before. The official story is still claiming no wrong doing, but are 'investigating'. Those investigating have a very vested interest in not charging their friends and co-workers with murder, or tainting the reputation of their department, or maybe even not bringing to light some of their own past wrong doings.

Do you see why people would be leery of the 'official' story in light of all these things? Do you understand? When there is a consistent pattern of abuse among certain organizations, it makes people very suspicious.
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That is the usual comment to state that the department (with multiple facets including I believe a federal inquiry as well) is investigating into the manner. There is a lot of liability and criminal avenues that the department must look into. Any potential failure to do an impartial job would result in a variety of negative consequences. You also now have the world watching and will be combing through everything, brick by brick, so they would be seriously off their rocker if they were aiming to manipulate the narrative.

Granted, I'm not saying departments do an impartial job each and every time, as they are controlled by a human element and with that, may come corruption. But with the many thousands of formal complaints of excessive force that go through the system, a sizable portion of those are indeed sustained. My department has paid out millions to some of these sustained complaints, and we pay dearly for our mistakes. That millions could have gone to hiring more officers, or given us better patrol cars, etc.

I full blown expect many to be cautious of the validity of the report; it is natural to be dismissive or hesitant to find credible something to which you have an invested belief in.

ryutaro's mama said:
Pretty sure Patrol would have given the South Carolina officer the benefit of the doubt, (even with the physical evidence pointing to the victim being shot while fleeing) if there were no video.
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That is absurd.
 
Fiction said:
There is quite a huge difference between smearing feces on the wall and managing to slam your head into something in a small enclosed space hard enough to sever your spine and crush your larynx. My 3 year old son once painted his bedroom wall with feces. It's actually easy enough for a child to do. I fail to understand how someone could injure themselves in that particular way without knocking themselves unconscious first.

If however, you would like to address my points in the second reply I made to you, we might have a discussion brewing here. If you ignore those points, then I can see where this is going, and no discussion would be had :(
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Oh, I agree indeed which is why my prior parallel was more aimed at the "injuring yourself for attention" mantra. The feces point was more in line with one's inability to rationally explain human behavior at times; as I cannot fathom how one could injure themselves like so.
 
Sign said:
It is glaringly obvious this institution is incapable of policing itself. It must be relieved of this responsibility.
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Perhaps, but who's gonna watch the watchmen? DOJ? I mean, I'm assuming that's the direction you're pointing, but federal policing all the way down to a local level would likely create more problems than it solves. I won't make an extremist comparison to secret police forces of other nations in the past, but I think there's a reasonable skepticism to be had.

I don't want to twist what you're saying, though. I think those points you outlined are a good place to start, but truly, who do you envision filling this role?
 
TheGeoKing said:
http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ter-floyd-dent-beating-city-council/26546769/

Eh, I don't know how to feel about this...
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Good for them I guess? Just doesn't seem to help anything when they say they are doing things the right way while getting zero results like everyone else.

I would like to see more people come out and talk about ways to prevent riots in the future by actually changing the fucking system.

But I guess everyone is just supposed to sit there and take it.
 
PopeReal said:
Good for them I guess? Just doesn't seem to help anything when they say they are doing things the right way while getting zero results like everyone else.

I would like to see more people come out and talk about ways to prevent riots in the future by actually changing the fucking system.

But I guess everyone is just supposed to sit there and take it.
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He was fired:
The city — with an estimated population of about 25,000 in December — is 73% black and 3% multi-racial, according to the 2010 U.S. Census. The officer shown in the video as having viciously beaten Dent was suspended April 10 and fired April 15, City Manager Rich Marsh told the crowd.
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I prefer to see him charged, but hopefully other cops might clue in you can't keep going around doing this without losing your job, at least in Inkster.
 
Puppet Shadow said:
He was fired:


I prefer to see him charged, but hopefully other cops might clue in you can't keep going around doing this without losing your job, at least in Inkster.
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Which was good. I was speaking more in the grand scheme of things that criticising another city for reacting differently doesn't help anything.

Like Geo said I guess I am more along the lines of not sure how to feel about it. Just doesn't sit right with me.
 
Fiction said:
I'm sorry, but 'paying out millions' in taxpayer money isn't sufficient punishment, in my eyes, for police brutality and murder. How many in your department have been arrested for these million dollar complaints? How many have been convicted?

Paying out money that isn't yours isn't going to stop you from roughing someone up. Facing actual consequences might, but that just doesn't happen.

And since you are invested in police work, you are proving your last point.
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Whether or not a punishment is suffice is on an ad-hoc basis, as there were other punishments included such as discipline, suspension, or even termination on top of the civil payout. The concept of "brutality" is very broad though, as it may include a simple extra unwarranted punch to a misuse of a taser.

How am I proving my last point? By not completely dismissing an alternative?
 
Lord Fagan said:
Perhaps, but who's gonna watch the watchmen? DOJ? I mean, I'm assuming that's the direction you're pointing, but federal policing all the way down to a local level would likely create more problems than it solves. I won't make an extremist comparison to secret police forces of other nations in the past, but I think there's a reasonable skepticism to be had.

I don't want to twist what you're saying, though. I think those points you outlined are a good place to start, but truly, who do you envision filling this role?
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Secret police is definitely not the thing I had in mind. I just think we need a separation of powers is all. Right now we have prosecutors who work with the police regularly, being tasked with prosecuting those same officers when the situation arises. Officers are working together and then being expected to investigate their coworkers / friends when they do something wrong. Everything is just too close right now.

We need a place that is "mean," "angry," and ready to give a corrupt officer / department a very bad day. The organization would be community facing, and perhaps local / elected. It would have absolute authority in handling all complaints filed against the police department. They are not there to handle other civil matters or arresting non-police citizens, etc.

Specifically? I guess it could be centralized around the DOJ. It could also be a spun off internal affairs, or a new thing entirely. It is clear what we have right now doesn't work and once we, the non-police population, can understand that then we can move forward.
 
Puppet Shadow said:
He was fired:


I prefer to see him charged, but hopefully other cops might clue in you can't keep going around doing this without losing your job, at least in Inkster.
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The officer was arrested. Police chief Got fired.

Police chief didnt beat up anyone.

With no large scale protests and riots, no way the national press picks up on it. Really shows you dont have to destroy your city to get results.
 
Sign said:
We need a place that is "mean," "angry," and ready to give a corrupt officer / department a very bad day. The organization would be community facing, and perhaps local / elected. It would have absolute authority in handling all complaints filed against the police department. They are not there to handle other civil matters or arresting non-police citizens, etc.
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It's a sad state of affairs, but aside from these kinds of phantom organizations that can do only right and speak only truth, I fear we may all live in an era where there are no real, trustworthy institutions. Maybe that time never existed. Doesn't matter if its cops, politicians, corporations, the media, the military, clergy, schools, or even family. Instances of crime, indifference, and betrayal of public trust saturate all of these groups. So many angles of selfishness, hate, and corruption. All I got left is a conscience telling me anyone over 35 is going to take advantage of me, and everybody under is as paranoid as I am, or worse.

Cynicism is a bitter, lonely way to live, but fantasizing about the Avengers saving us all from ourselves isn't the answer. My kingdom for a third option I could genuinely trust.
 
Patrol said:
It's not the first time I have heard of such an event occurring. Indeed, I have ran into one suspect who -- with open wounds, mind you -- stuffed dirty nearby items in their wounds just so they can go to the hospital to get medication. While as far-fetched as it may sound, it may be a possibility. I would take early leaked information with a grain of salt though as we should wait for officially released reports.
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Yes, it's very far-fetched when you factor in he was handcuffed with both hands behind his back, and his feet were in shackles. But as far-fetch this cover story is, it will probably get the cops off scott-free once again. How many times we've seen this happen. The feeling of hopelessness is real out there. I try not to feel it, but it's getting harder and harder not to.
 
AmyS said:
6Fc8o1M.jpg
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i missed a bit of the thread but this is good to see, trying to catch up on msnbc.
 
Loakum said:
Yes, it's very far-fetched when you factor in he was handcuffed with both hands behind his back, and his feet were in shackles. But as far-fetch this cover story is, it will probably get the cops off scott-free once again. How many times we've seen this happen. The feeling of hopelessness is real out there. I try not to feel it, but it's getting harder and harder not to.
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One can still inflict injuries to oneself while shackled and handcuffed; they are not chaired, nor are they in maximum restraints so their movement, while limited, is not completely restricted.
 
Loakum said:
Yes, it's very far-fetched when you factor in he was handcuffed with both hands behind his back, and his feet were in shackles. But as far-fetch this cover story is, it will probably get the cops off scott-free once again. How many times we've seen this happen. The feeling of hopelessness is real out there. I try not to feel it, but it's getting harder and harder not to.
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I can't believe this is the story they are rolling with. He severed his own spine? Even after the video of him being dragged to the van?
 
I suppose it is good in a way that the best the racist pieces of shit could come up with as a preliminary defense in the media is that the already injured man who had his legs shackled and his arms handcuffed behind his back managed to crush his own larynx and sever his spinal cord.
 
Lord Fagan said:
It's a sad state of affairs, but aside from these kinds of phantom organizations that can do only right and speak only truth, I fear we may all live in an era where there are no real, trustworthy institutions. Maybe that time never existed. Doesn't matter if its cops, politicians, corporations, the media, the military, clergy, schools, or even family. Instances of crime, indifference, and betrayal of public trust saturate all of these groups. So many angles of selfishness, hate, and corruption. All I got left is a conscience telling me anyone over 35 is going to take advantage of me, and everybody under is as paranoid as I am, or worse.

Cynicism is a bitter, lonely way to live, but fantasizing about the Avengers saving us all from ourselves isn't the answer. My kingdom for a third option I could genuinely trust.
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Removing the police department's ability to investigate themselves is not "fantasizing about the Avengers," lol.

Truthfully, a lot of other western countries don't have these issues or at least not nearly as bad. We either need to build solutions to the problems we have that are inherent to our systems, or we need to start tearing shit down and copying other countries.

Which would basically mean: working aggressively to disarm the country and police, completely rethink the role of police in society (stop asking them to handle mental illness patients, the homeless, etc.), requiring higher standards of police training, getting rid of racist polices like the "war on drugs," and focus on rehabilitation, investing heavily in mental health services, etc. And this is just the obvious stuff! There are centuries worth of non-codified racism that need to be worked through as well.

I think the important thing to realize is that institutions are created by people and can be repaired / improved by people. The hard part is just finding the right ones for the job and not allowing them to fail.
 
Sign said:
Which would basically mean: working aggressively to disarm the country and police, completely rethink the role of police in society (stop asking them to handle mental illness patients, the homeless, etc.), requiring higher standards of police training, getting rid of racist polices like the "war on drugs," and focus on rehabilitation, investing heavily in mental health services, etc. And this is just the obvious stuff! There are centuries worth of non-codified racism that need to be worked through as well.

I think the important thing to realize is that institutions are created by people and can be repaired / improved by people. The hard part is just finding the right ones for the job and not allowing them to fail.
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Again, this agenda sounds great on paper, but I have little faith that people exist out there up to the actual challenge. Sure, the Avengers is a pretty fantastical metaphor, but this notion that wise, powerful people with the purest of intentions hidden in polite society can fix it all as long as we don't let them fail sounds very much like a fantasy. And I guess that's the core of the problem: The expectations of the citizenry will never be able to align with what current sociopolitical models can provide. I'm not satisfied with the current arrangement by any means, and we could do much better, but what you're talking about is a wish list, not a mechanism or structure designed to provide a failsafe for inevitable corruption and other tragedies of the human condition. The people in charge, that's one aspect of it, but the kind of cultural spark needed to form the foundation of this new program ain't out there. If it is, either humanity isn't evolved enough to grasp it, or the competing interests of our limited system precludes the consensus needed to kickstart the golden age of true freedom and equality for all.
 
LilWayneSuckz said:
Are they already trying to say it's Freddie Gray's fault?! Are you serious?...I can't.
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It's rather similar to the case of Jeff Alston, who in 1997 was paralysed from the neck down after a police ride. The police claimed that he had thrashed around in the vehicle like a charging bull and repeatedly banged his own head against the side of the van, causing the neck fracture. However, a trauma surgeon found that he had no external head injuries, so that narrative was false. Alston was awarded nearly $40 million in damages.

http://www.vocativ.com/usa/justice-...1997-baltimore-police-case-raised-same-issue/
 
Patrol said:
That is absurd.
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More or less absurd than you believing that Freddie Gray severed his own spine?
Let's be real, had there not been video and public outcry for the South Carolina murder, you would have been doing the same mental gymnastics you're doing here.
Anything to absolve your fellows cops huh?
 
werks said:
They could atleat try to make a believable lie. You aren't going to sever your spine by banging again the van wall.
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You can IF you have suffered a major injury beforehand like a fracture that only needed a small amount of pressure to fully break.

A friend of mine was hit by a van in HS, dude literally got up without a scratch. Ambulance was there checking him out and the whole nine. They gave him the all clear and as soon as he stepped out of the ambulance with his left leg - SNAP. Straight through his skin. It was gross.

It is very possible use of excessive force before the ride in the van fractured his spine just enough to hang on for a few brief moments. Then a small kick or even going over a curb could have done the rest - hell, shifting your weight just to get more comfortable puts stress on the spine. We don't know. All we know is he went in the van without a severed spine and came out with one. There's plenty to speculate about the injuries.

I think the speculation about doing it to HIMSELF is wrong. I do feel that there is merit in excessive force and injuries occurring before the ride in the van, though. At least enough to let any small bump or other jostling to finish the job.

What is certain and unarguable is that the man died after an altercation with the police. Something that has been going on far too often and shit needs to change and change fast. People are angry and rightfully so. People, especially African Americans, are being treated like subhuman garbage without any accountability and its shameful.

Again, I'm not suggesting he did it to himself, I'm suggesting it was done beforehand to an extent and any small movement may have completed the severing during transit. Just so I am clear. I do not buy that he did it purposefully but it is very possible to suffer a fracture today, not know about it, then a complete break shortly after.
 
Enzom21 said:
More or less absurd than you believing that Freddie Gray severed his own spine?
Let's be real, had there not been video and public outcry for the South Carolina murder, you would have been doing the same mental gymnastics you're doing here.
Anything to absolve your fellows cops huh?
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Where did I state that I believed he severed his own spine?

No.
 
Patrol said:
Whether or not a punishment is suffice is on an ad-hoc basis, as there were other punishments included such as discipline, suspension, or even termination on top of the civil payout. The concept of "brutality" is very broad though, as it may include a simple extra unwarranted punch to a misuse of a taser.

How am I proving my last point? By not completely dismissing an alternative?
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You are completely missing the point. People don't care if he loses his job, they care about him being charged and convicted which would happen to a citizen.

Cops are seemingly immune from the justice system. Even those convicted get segregated and typically given nicer confines. That does not happen with everyone else and quite frankly people are sick of it. And they are really sick of every single cop blindly defending the actions of their departments.
 
Wthermans said:
You are completely missing the point. People don't care if he loses his job, they care about him being charged and convicted which would happen to a citizen.

Cops are seemingly immune from the justice system. Even those convicted get segregated and typically given nicer confines. That does not happen with everyone else and quite frankly people are sick of it. And they are really sick of every single cop blindly defending the actions of their departments.
Click to expand...

People are separated in a variety of different fashions during custody sessions; be it transgendered, gang drop-out, firefighter, LEO, high profile case, or charges related (like child abuse/neglect/sexual abuse).
 
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