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Violent standoff between Cops and Protesters in Baltimore

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Furyous said:
Questions:

Why is he allowing a child to play with his gear near a loaded weapon?

Why are they so heavily armed?

Why are the national guard so poorly outfitted with weapons?

Do people really think people are crazy enough to take on the national guard?

This community is hurting and this response seems very overzealous. All people want is to see justice served.
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The gun is almost certainly not loaded.
 
Random Painted HIghway said:
You posts that a huge portion of felons are taken off the voter rolls "forever". I was pointing out how that is an outdated belief. It is ok to be wrong, what you were taught in school on this has changed considerably in the last decade plus.
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What are you basing this on? Let me point out that the situation in Fergerson where the poor were targets by the police in terms of revenue (fines) is not something new. In Florida some of the poorest areas in Ft Lauderdale are targets just the same. These poor cannot afford these fines. What do you think happens when they can't afford to pay the fines? Its a cycle of oppression that goes on.

Florida - On Mar. 9, 2011 the Florida rules of Executive Clemency were toughened. Automatic restoration of civil rights and the ability to vote will no longer be granted for any offenses. All individuals convicted of any felony will now have to apply for executive clemency after a five year waiting period. Individuals who are convicted, or who have previously been convicted, of certain felonies such as murder, assault, child abuse, drug trafficking, arson, etc. are subject to a seven year waiting period] and a clemency board hearing to determine whether or not the ability to vote will be restored[/B.

Prior to the Mar. 9, 2011 rule change some individuals convicted of nonviolent felonies were re-enfranchised automatically by the Clemency Board upon completion of their full sentence, including payment of fines and fees.
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Knowing that the poor have very little to get by let alone defend themselves or pay these fines how can you say that situation has changed? Yes, it is possible by definition. How on earth do you think that is possible when these people are targets every single day they step on the streets? We have a justice system where your fate comes down to who can pay for the best lawyers, not justice. Where we have to plea for crimes we did not commit because we can't afford a lawyer and the impending doom is far worse.




PS. <3 Amir0x
 
CordellC said:
Aren't these contradictory?
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Yes, they are contradictory but relevant questions. I expect the national guard to have actual military grade weaponry because that looks like a catcher's shin guard to an extent. At the same time, what gives them cause for concern to the extent that threatened to need that much equipment?

We're talking about kids out there forced into interaction with armed officers as a result in part of transportation shutting down, so this much force is a joke, IMHO.
 
Furyous said:
Yes, they are contradictory but relevant questions. I expect the national guard to have actual military grade weaponry because that looks like a catcher's shin guard to an extent. At the same time, what gives them cause for concern to the extent that threatened to need that much equipment?

We're talking about kids out there forced into interaction with armed officers as a result in part of transportation shutting down, so this much force is a joke, IMHO.
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I did a little searching and it sounds like standard sporting equipment can sometimes be used for riot situations where they're expected to deal with scuffles and thrown objects as opposed to bullets. Ballistic gear is probably heavier, so it might be more of a situational thing than the guard being under-equipped.
 
Random Painted HIghway said:
I have no idea what you know or don't know, I can just go by what you post. And what you posted was at best an outdated view of felon voting rights. Such misinformation actually depresses voting as convicted felons automatically assume they can never vote again. It is important to not spread misinformation on such things lest you inadvetently perpetuate the issue. I will stop here, you get my point that precision in wording is important.
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Right, but the point is it's not actually an outdated view of prison systems - because the point I was making is that black mass incarceration is indisputably partially about taking voters off the rolls. Not only do black men receive far more severe sentences for similar crimes as their white counterparts (even with exactly equal criminal backgrounds), but they go through the justice system at alarmingly disproportionate numbers. This is not news, so I'm sure you know.

Therefore, the point is not changed and certainly is not impacted by fitzing about how "outdated" the view is, because the "view" in this case is merely that blacks are repeatedly disenfranchised from the voting system in this country due to our criminal justice system, which allows people in prison, people on parole and probation and in the case of ten states being a felon from voting (in ten states, often never again). In two states, you need an executive pardon to be able to vote ever again for certain misdemeanors, let alone felonies.

In short, studies have been done which establish that as many as ten percent of the population in many minority communities are not allowed to vote due to voter disenfranchisement, and that's not counting those who are in prison and thus not allowed to vote, which shoves that percentage total massively forward.

So, that's my view... which isn't outdated at all. Generations of voters have been lost to this policy.
 
Furyous said:
Yes, they are contradictory but relevant questions. I expect the national guard to have actual military grade weaponry because that looks like a catcher's shin guard to an extent. At the same time, what gives them cause for concern to the extent that threatened to need that much equipment?

We're talking about kids out there forced into interaction with armed officers as a result in part of transportation shutting down, so this much force is a joke, IMHO.
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He is not wearing that much equipment. He's in basic military kit (as all National Guardsmen are no matter what they respond to) with a riot helmet and shin guards. Doesn't seem out of the ordinary for a response to a riot.

It's not like he's carrying sidearms and anti-personnel mines.
 
Amir0x said:
Right, but the point is it's not actually an outdated view of prison systems - because the point I was making is that black mass incarceration is indisputably partially about taking voters off the rolls. Not only do black men receive far more severe sentences for similar crimes as their white counterparts (even with exactly equal criminal backgrounds), but they go through the justice system at alarmingly disproportionate numbers. This is not news, so I'm sure you know.

Therefore, the point is not changed and certainly is not impacted by fitzing about how "outdated" the view is, because the "view" in this case is merely that blacks are repeatedly disenfranchised from the voting system in this country due to our criminal justice system, which allows people in prison, people on parole and probation and in the case of ten states being a felon from voting (in ten states, often never again). In two states, you need an executive pardon to be able to vote ever again for certain misdemeanors, let alone felonies.

In short, studies have been done which establish that as many as ten percent of the population in many minority communities are not allowed to vote due to voter disenfranchisement, and that's not counting those who are in prison and thus not allowed to vote, which shoves that percentage total massively forward.

So, that's my view... which isn't outdated at all. Generations of voters have been lost to this policy.
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I appreciate your perspective on the above, but again my singular issue was with this statement of yours:

Amir0x said:
Where a huge portion of those receive felonies which take them off the voter rolls forever.
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A statement that is at best misleading in 2015 and perpetuates a quite common misconception of what befalls the vast majority of felons after their sentence is completed vis a vis their voting rights. I personally have a stake in educating folks on this particular point as I used to be a criminal defense attorney and spent a fair amount of time educating my clients on the consequences of their potential convictions including those collateral consequences such as voting, firearms, immigration etc. a job which is made more difficult by community misunderstandings on such things. That you would use that as a jumping off point to other points against the system as a whole is your prerogative, but you will have to excuse me for choosing to not engage you on those issues as that was not my purpose in engaging you in the first place. I do think my purpose was satisfied here as I believe you have a better understanding for the voting rights of felons than you did before our conversation, and as such I will bid you adieu. Good luck to you.
 
I won't argue any of that, but I will say that felons not being able to vote due to Florida law was enough of a factor to alter a presidential election.
 
CrocMother said:
The gun is almost certainly not loaded.
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There's a good chance it's not actually loaded, or at the least has a round chambered, hell for all I know he may not have even been issued ammunition but it's pretty poor form for him to have the safety off, but..... National Guard.

Edit: actually what the heck is going on with it? Seems like he's got some other crap installed on it. Shit always changes. Disregard.
 
mAcOdIn said:
There's a good chance it's not actually loaded, or at the least has a round chambered, hell for all I know he may not have even been issued ammunition but it's pretty poor form for him to have the safety off, but..... National Guard.

Edit: actually what the heck is going on with it? Seems like he's got some other crap installed on it. Shit always changes. Disregard.
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It isn't though.
 
Baltimore Mayor Lifts Citywide Curfew


http://abcnews.go.com/US/baltimore-mayor-lifts-citywide-curfew/story?id=30769616

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/04/us/baltimore-lifts-citywide-curfew-put-in-place-after-rioting.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baltimore-unrest/baltimore-curfew-lifted-after-five-nights-n352826


Except you wouldn't know this unless you searched because both fucking CNN and FOX (television and websites) simultaneously decided to stop covering Baltimore last night and I've seen not even a mention of it today.

edit: nevermind.

also.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/05/03/403969575/baltimore-mayor-lifts-curfew


nbc link above is working again.

A daily 10 p.m. curfew in Baltimore, which had been in effect for five nights following violent protests over the death of Freddie Gray, was lifted Sunday by the city's mayor.

"I have rescinded my order instituting a city-wide curfew. I want to thank the people of Baltimore for their patience," announced Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake on Twitter.

"My goal has always been to not have the curfew in place a single day longer than was necessary. I believe we have reached that point today," Rawlings-Blake said.

A massive rally on Saturday following charges brought against six officers in Gray's death was largely peaceful, but Baltimore Police Commissioner Anthony Batts said the curfew would remain in effect Saturday night in order in ensure the riots and looting that sprung up earlier in the week wouldn't be repeated.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Maryland had decried the decision to impose a curfew, saying in a statement that it was being used as a deterrence to First Amendment rights. "The curfew is an extraordinary measure that has clearly outlived its usefulness, and reminds city residents of their broken relationship with police," Deborah Jeon, the legal director of the ACLU of Maryland, wrote in the statement.

Twenty people were arrested during protests Saturday night, according to The Associated Press. A police officer was recorded pepper-spraying one man who was detained after he walked toward officers.

Maryland Governor Larry Hogan said in a statement Saturday that 3,000 National Guardsmen, 578 state troopers and 432 officers from other states had been deployed to respond to the demonstrations. On Sunday he had not yet lifted a state of emergency that was declared in the wake of Monday's looting and violence.

Rawlings-Blake said patrol by the National Guard would "unwind" gradually.

"It's not like you flip a switch," she said.

"A lot of the unrest has been settled, but that doesn't mean the work doesn't continue," Rawlings-Blake said during a Sunday afternoon news conference outside of Baltimore's Mondawmin Mall. The shopping center had been closed after rioters vandalized some of the stores earlier in the week, but it was reopening Sunday, according to the mall's website.

"We want to heal our city," said Rawlings-Blake, who commended the vendors for their resilience and also thanked faith leaders in the community, who she said supported her and are helping to rebuild the city.

Hogan said Sunday that lifting the curfew was a "good idea" because the city needed to start rebuilding. Hogan said about 200 Baltimore businesses were lost in the mayhem. "Let's get people coming back to the city &#8230; it's safe and we've got calm and peace," he said.

Hogan had called for a statewide "Day of Prayer and Peace" on the first Sunday since the unrest erupted. "I pray that tomorrow will be a day of reflection and will serve as a foundation for how we all conduct ourselves in the days and months to come," he said in a statement Saturday night.

The governor attended a church service Sunday morning at St. Peter Claver Church, less than a mile away from where Gray was arrested.
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Spider from Mars said:
Just saw on MSNBC that there was another police shooting of a man and there was a 6 shooter recovered. I think the man is still alive.
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https://twitter.com/BaltimorePolice

@BaltimorePolice said:
The reports of a man being shot at North and Pennsylvania Ave are NOT true. Officers have arrested a man for a handgun at the location
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Police are saying there's not even a shooting, unless this is a different rumor they're talking about.
 
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