brain_stew
Member
The Wii and 360 were both severely supply constrained. The PSP and PS3 would be the most fair comparisons.
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VITA: Retail Musings Edition
- Thread starter Khalifa Jayy
- Start date
Ken Masters
Banned
I agree, but I see his point though. As a Vita/Ps3 owner, I don't get excited in the least bit seeing ports of console games. Why wow I want to play Lego Harry Potter 5-7 when I can play it on my ps3? Uncharted is a separate original Vita adventure, and more of that is what the Vita needs. As great as Rayman looks on Vita I'm already enjoying the hell out of it on the PS3
Vita need originals titles, bad
We don't actually know. You're speculating based on Japan. It's not true at all. It's just as bizarre and fanboyish as anything else. You haven't supported it and then you jump on someone who says something similar. You had a bone to pick with the thread before you entered. Give it a rest.
No, it needs time. The damn thing just launched.
Ken Masters
Banned
did Nintendo release anything after the 1st week of the 3ds release?
Father_Brain
Banned
NOA issued a statement a few days after launch to the effect that it had the highest first-day sales of any Nintendo handheld. We didn't get anything else until the NPD release a couple weeks later.
I wonder if there's any way Sony could put out a similar statement, though. It's almost certainly not going to beat PSP's launch numbers, and even if it does a tad better than 3DS did at launch, that's not the stuff sound bites are made of.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Well Sony aren't crowing about the amazing launch numbers in the UK so I guess sales weren't stellar.
Uncharted is a poor example, because that game has never been a mass appeal system seller.
There's actually good corollary between this discussion and the "Has the PS3 ever had a system seller?" thread. The overall agreement in there seems to be that with the exception of MGS4, the PS3 has never had a giant mass appeal system seller. It was the critical mass of third party software that drove PS3 sales and continues to do so, so where does that put the Vita?
I was discussing this with a buddy of mine this AM, and he said that Sony's critical error with the Vita was not having Monster Hunter exclusivity locked down before a single penny was spent on Vita R&D. It's hard to argue with that logic. Where would Vita be in Japan now if it had launched with MH? How would Vita be selling in the USA if it had launched with a CoD?
Sony's launch strategy with Vita shows how perpetually inept their sales and marketing team is when it comes to reading the pulse of the gaming public. They are trying to flog a dedicated handheld gaming device at a premium price with games that the gaming public has ZERO interest in. And for the record, you guys are a few rungs above the "gaming public", so you can spare me perception you have that weird stuff like "Gravity Daze" is going to give the Vita the mass appeal it needs to be a success.
God almighty. Dead-fucking-on
Did it launch the same day as the US? Typically they would wait a full week, so honestly I wouldn't expect anything before Wednesday. I certainly didn't expect an Activision-style "HOLY GOD BIGGEST ENTERTAINMENT LAUNCH DAY IN HISTORY, PLEASE SMELL MY MONIES" style press release. Sony has always struck me as a bit more reserved.
Ok, ok ... you have an opinion, but that don't make what you say gospel!
And when you come off with statements like 'Vita is a non selling turd' ...... then people only see that statement and your opinion has been poisioned with the taint of a hostile fanboy.
Ken Masters
Banned
I don't know why people think Sony didn't try to have Monster Hunter as a Vita exclusive, Capcom likes money and they know they can make a lot more if they support the 3ds also. It always shocked me they weren't supporting the DS
You can say this about anything. The games on the PS3 have sold over 10 million at the very least. I'd say that's pretty damn successful.
Maybe the Vita shouldn't try to be the PS3? People are overly critical of "experience equivalence" on the Vita already. The Vita should have a robust library full of smaller games that can be played on the go versus games that are heavily cinematic like Uncharted. They don't lend themselves to being able to stop in the middle.
Call of Duty Vita will be there in the fall. And I don't think it's going to be make much of a difference. People who play Call of Duty will play it on their TVs.
Hot Shots Golf is a perfect Vita game. The multi-player is asynchronous and can be played when you're able. By the by, 250 dollars is not a premium price. The accessories are the real culprit here.
The fact that you think Gravity Daze is "weird stuff" leads me to believe you have no soul.
I wouldn't throw the fanboy epithet around but he certainly didn't do himself any favors by having such an acerbic opinion as his first impression in the thread. Hard to take their opinion seriously when they have such a bone to pick.
MarshMellow96
Member
I guess there's no such thing as a soft launch, after all.
DangerousDave
Member
Well, probably is not a game that move hardware, but is one of the most succesful Sony franchises. Not God of War or Gran Turismo, but bigger than most others.
Still, is a game with much more appeal in west than in Japan, so is normal that people in UK or US will buy a Vita for that game, even if in Japan the sales has been quite low.
That's a good idea. It'd seem to be a pretty great handheld game as well as long as they add some more approachable changes. They'd have to let you save anywhere.
mugurumakensei
Member
Edit: ignore. Ind format syndicate charts as 8th on 360.
The DS couldnt do MH, that was the only reason why. Now capcom dont have that problem.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
They are not normally shy in spreading positive Sony PR.
Selling 10 million to an established base across three iterations doesn't make it a system seller though. That's his point; software that moves hardware in droves. Uncharted doesn't seem to be it.
I agree with the rest. I've even said as much; Vita needs its own unique software identity. The launch games are nice indeed, but those type of titles should come AFTER the new ips have sold the mainstream on this system. Have a couple established big name franchises mixed with new faces that can cultivate an audience for a potential series on this system (Halo for example). That way, these new series can spearhead the successor to the vita in so many years from now.
Exactly, just like with the 3DS. It wasn't new installments for MH/Mario/Mario Kart that drove sales, it was brand new IPs.
Cheech said:
There you go with that stupid hyperbole again.
Anyways, SCEA has done an excellent job making sure the Vita wouldn't fly off shelves on launch day. One of the key factors I think was the introduction of the First Edition Bundle. It netted Sony an extra $100, yes, but at the cost of confusion and launch day hype. Instead of being excited that the Vita was launching on the 22nd, SCEA created a mass confusion of messages. Vita is coming on the 22nd...unless you want to get it a week early with a case, game and 4gb stick for just $50 more...oh and 22nd day buyers get a 8gb stick and get to pay $50 less. Most stores didn't even sell games for FEB buyers until the 22nd.
Even if Sony was to throw a tremendous amount of marketing for the launch of the Vita, I'm not sure how far that would have gotten them for sales. Vita was always going to be a slow burn. People have to be convinced that the Vita is the absolute best portable gaming handheld on the market, and more importantly argue why smartphone gaming pales in comparison. Some are convinced just by trying out the thing. For others, it'll be a killer app before they show interest. And for the majority, they won't be convinced at all.
The Vita will be a solid performer in NA/Euro. It won't ever take off into the stratosphere, it won't beat the monthly sales of the 3DS, but it'll carve out a large enough audience to cater to over the coming years. No thanks to SCEAs entire disaster of a launch campaign.
Ha, are you mocking me?
I'm sure Nintendo is a special case (whether you were joking or not). Unlike Sony, their 1st party staple series ARE the big system sellers.
Why do I have to buy a PS3/XBOX360 if I can buy a PS2 for $100 or less?
Uno Venova
Banned
how do you tell a game is a system seller, besides the few obvious ones.
Oh, absolutely. I was a huge fan of Uncharted 1, and the series is a cash cow. However, when you look at console sales bumps that coincide with game launches, and the "tail" that a game can have as a result of that; Uncharted did not get 'er done.
It would be a huge mistake for Sony to do this. The only ace in the hole they have on Vita is the fact that it CAN come closest to replicating the home console experience on a handheld. Most of us already have smartphones that can play the smaller, bite sized stuff. If I want a big boy console experience in my pocket, Vita is the only place to get that done. That's the message Sony should be sending.
I think you underestimate the depth and breadth of the audience that plays CoD. Earlier in the thread, I said that if Sony can get me a Vita with CoD packed in along with a memory card for $199, I'll be there day one. And I'll upload a smiling pic of myself with the box in hand. Despite my negative slant on the device, I would do this just so I can get killstreaks on the crapper (what would be REALLY neat is if I also levelled my console CoD guy up at the same time, but I won't be too demanding). That's what I mean about mass appeal.
Depends who you view the Vita's competition as. IMO, the real price of a Vita is $350-400. Memory card, games, etc... That is a bitter pill to swallow for people who are cross shopping it against a DS, or even wondering what the Vita will offer above and beyond what they get from their smartphones already. For that kind of a price premium, you had better have some pretty kick ass games.
I played it for 10 minutes in Target last week. I was running up and down buildings, chasing a cat around, and skipping through inane dialog. Yeah, I'll go with my initial impression and call it "weird". That said, I'm not allergic to games that come across as inaccessible. Demon's Souls is the best game I've ever played on my PS3. Gravity Daze is no Demon's Souls. It's not even a Flower or an Eden.
Sometimes, eloquence is all I have time for. That said, I think it's pretty clear I'm not a fanboy with an agenda.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Bigger than GoW as well.
famousmortimer
Banned
You hit every nail on every head.
And as a fan of the device I'm happy with this. I'm not a shill for sony, i don't care if this megacorp get's the #1 spot and billions of dollars. All I care about is that the system does well enough to get more games, games I want to play, and continues to do so for many years. I, like you, think they are on their way to doing that. Will they have iphone type numbers? God no. Will they have 3DS numbers? Probably won't even reach that either. But i'll let the kids fight over that stuff, I just want it to do well enough that I get more games.
And speaking of games, this launch is amazing in terms of my personal taste.
Sarcastic, yes, but the point is that the 3DS sales have sky rocketed thanks to sequels, not original IPs (does it even have a single worthwhile new IP released a year into its life?). Mario etc. has been good to Nintendo and Uncharted, Little Big Planet, Hot Shots etc. have been good to Sony.
Original IPs are riskier and will come out at a slower pace, Sony is already releasing Gravity Daze. It doesn't make sense to release a bunch of new IPs at once.
This, MH wasn't a system seller until it hit the PSP.
I like how Uncharted goes from not being a mass appeal system seller, to being one of the titles the gaming public has ZERO interest in within a few paragraphs.
You can't have one without the other. Think about it. If the gaming public was wild about Uncharted to the point of being a system seller, wouldn't it have sold systems? I'm not sure what you're getting at.
Father_Brain
Banned
They really haven't in any remotely comparable sense, no.
Yeah, the way they're trying to skim the market with premiums is really weird. The whole first edition bundle and memory card prices thing is not really a good idea. I understand the logic behind it but the execution was meh.
And throwing more money behind Vita marketing doesn't solve more problems like you said.. BUT, the way the marketing itself was executed was really pretty bad.
I'm still hoping Vita experiences a good amount of success; I want this hardware to be iterated upon and set some standards in handheld gaming.
Uno Venova
Banned
it's the leading seller for vita in us and uk, is that a system seller?
DangerousDave
Member
You cannot possible know how many PS3 Uncharted sold.
Uncharted 1 launched in November 2007. The sales of PS3 were much bigger on November and December of 2007 than in the previous year. It was because of Uncharted? We don't know.
Uncharted 2 launched in October 2009. The sales of PS3 rocketeered in those months, because it was just after the price drop. Some of those sales were because of Uncharted 2? We don't know.
AranhaHunter
Banned
What's the employee discount at Best Buy? Is it still cost +5%? I think there was an article by eurogamer that made it seem like Sony made money on each unit sold over there and that the vita was really overpriced. Was wondering if the same held true in the US.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
On NA Amazon it is and always has been the best selling Vita game. It doesn't have to sell systems, but people buying systems are choosing it despite being the highest price game out.
So the series I've mentioned haven't sold well for Sony? They were failures?
The difference is, Mario and Zelda can sell systems on their own. Little Big Planet and Uncharted can't.
Nintendo doesn't need third party software near as much as Sony or MS do in order to move hardware. You simply cannot compare the two launched from that perspective.
Sony systems in the past, have been propelled to great sales quickly, because of unmatched 3rd party support. Their first party stuff only complimented it (versus the opposite for Nintendo).
IF the Vita succeeds, it'll be a very slow burn until third party support ramps up.
Edit; Being the highest selling software on a platform does NOT necessarily make that software a system seller (something that propels the platform to a healthy level of sales).
Does street fighter Turbo selling the most software on 3DO make that a system seller?
Indeed, that is why I based my guess between PSP and PS3.
The PSP number appeared on September 6th 2005. They waited 6 days to announce they had the most succesful Uk launch ever and had beaten the DS launch.
Lagspike_exe
Member
I'm not sure why exactly were people expecting a huge marketing campaign.
Marketing campaigns amplify awareness of a certain product/service. Raising awareness on the hardware alone wouldn't doo much at this stage. Let's analyze Vita as a platform.
1) It's one year late compared with 3DS.
2) It costs significantly more and that's hardware alone. Memory stick creates an even wider gap in pricing.
3) There are no true system sellers. Let's be honest, no matter how good Uncharted is it doesn't the power to move a huge amount of units like Nintendo did with the MK/3D Land/Monster Hunter Holy Trinity.
What demographic category should the campaign target? It's very clear that due to all these things combined people buying Vitas are hardcore gamers with a more niche taste. Until Vita gets a pricecut and more mainstream games there's no point in spending millions raising awareness on a product that the people won't buy. Remember PS3 2009? It got a pricecut and a redesign, which made it more appealing to the mainstream consumer, followed by a marketing blitz. Sales significantly increased in the following months.
Marketing campaigns amplify awareness of a certain product/service. Raising awareness on the hardware alone wouldn't doo much at this stage. Let's analyze Vita as a platform.
1) It's one year late compared with 3DS.
2) It costs significantly more and that's hardware alone. Memory stick creates an even wider gap in pricing.
3) There are no true system sellers. Let's be honest, no matter how good Uncharted is it doesn't the power to move a huge amount of units like Nintendo did with the MK/3D Land/Monster Hunter Holy Trinity.
What demographic category should the campaign target? It's very clear that due to all these things combined people buying Vitas are hardcore gamers with a more niche taste. Until Vita gets a pricecut and more mainstream games there's no point in spending millions raising awareness on a product that the people won't buy. Remember PS3 2009? It got a pricecut and a redesign, which made it more appealing to the mainstream consumer, followed by a marketing blitz. Sales significantly increased in the following months.
That's to be expected. It is literally the only non port with any sort of mass appeal.
Certainly didn't work for the Gamecube.
Father_Brain
Banned
kinggroin beat me to it, but they're not failures (well, I don't think so - not quite sure about LBP2). What they are is moderately popular franchises that aren't popular enough to singlehandedly drive hardware sales through periods of weak third-party support. And that's on PS3; the sales potential of handheld spinoffs is significantly less.
From third parties, sure.
But new IPs from SCE have proven to not be the direction to go. SCE has the incredibly terrible habit of dropping successful properties like a rock instead of grooming them into something special like Nintendo has with their brands. It's very odd that the only franchises to appear on every PlayStation platform is WipEout, and Hot Shots given those series weren't even SCE's biggest IPs (okay, Hot Shots was for a good while in Japan).
