Romulus
Member
Most games in general are shovelware.
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VR is a fad and will never take off
- Thread starter Fluzer
- Start date
Most games in general are shovelware.
_William
Neo Member
VR is the worst about it...
Shifty
Member
Wonko_C
Member
Indie VR games tend to be mistaken for "demos" or "experiences". I don't see flat-screen indies being treated the same way. Seems unfair to me.
Indie is what is keeping VR gaming afloat, and for that I'm grateful. VR is currently the wild west like back in the Atari 2600 era, where it was all experimental. Any kind of idea could be turned into a game, no matter how stupid it sounded, and often those ideas ended up producing incredibly fun games. That is to me more exciting than the big companies trying to shoehorn existing genres into VR, which doesn't always work.
Indie is what is keeping VR gaming afloat, and for that I'm grateful. VR is currently the wild west like back in the Atari 2600 era, where it was all experimental. Any kind of idea could be turned into a game, no matter how stupid it sounded, and often those ideas ended up producing incredibly fun games. That is to me more exciting than the big companies trying to shoehorn existing genres into VR, which doesn't always work.
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Nimarus
Neo Member
Most games I've played on VR can be finished within an hour. The longest so far was about 3-4 hours of gameplay. I think this is likely due to a couple reasons. One, it being made by an indie developer who doesn't have the resources to pour into a large project. Two, the developer/publisher wants to make the game, but isn't confident they will make as large a profit as they would on console/PC. Therefore, they make the game shorter so less revenue is invested into the project. If VR pics up and become more popular, this could change. With Oculus launching it's new standalone VR headset (at a price comparable to a new console), we may see more developers think about putting more time and effort into more quality VR games.
...I REALLY want to play Lost Echo 2
triplestation
Member
Remember when Tony Stark builds a clunky grey iron Man in a cave? That's where VR is right now.
In about a decade or less I predict something like the goggles cyclops wears will replace it. Another decade it'll be like a pair of sunglasses.
In about a decade or less I predict something like the goggles cyclops wears will replace it. Another decade it'll be like a pair of sunglasses.
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Krabba
Neo Member
VR will never take off due to
Laziness:
The average consumer doesn't want to strap on a VR-headset and waggle when they come home exhausted from work. They'd much rather sit still with a controller and look at a stationary screen.
VR-Blindness:
It's deeply antisocial to strap on a VR-headset and shut yourself off from the rest of the world. It might be OK for lonely incels but not great for those who are living together with other people.
The human body is not compatible:
The most important point - The brain spazzes out when it sees movement without feeling movement. For most, a fast-moving VR-experience is deeply uncomfortable, and slow walk/teleport-simulators limit gameplay to the extent where it's no longer interesting.
It is and will remain a niche product.
Laziness:
The average consumer doesn't want to strap on a VR-headset and waggle when they come home exhausted from work. They'd much rather sit still with a controller and look at a stationary screen.
VR-Blindness:
It's deeply antisocial to strap on a VR-headset and shut yourself off from the rest of the world. It might be OK for lonely incels but not great for those who are living together with other people.
The human body is not compatible:
The most important point - The brain spazzes out when it sees movement without feeling movement. For most, a fast-moving VR-experience is deeply uncomfortable, and slow walk/teleport-simulators limit gameplay to the extent where it's no longer interesting.
It is and will remain a niche product.
gifgaf
Member
You really shouldn't assume.
Oh wow, not compatible?
Its designed for humans, are people who get car sick not compatible with cars then?Motion sickness can happen yes, but it is manageable. I haven't had sickness for a long time, my kids don't ever get sick but my son gets car sick, figure that one out. I know people who have had motion sickness from playing a fast framerate game on a monitor, I myself have had motion sickness from playing a game on a flat screen especially when im tired. My Wife can feel hot and sick when playing a game for a while and she gets stuck, backtracking a lot to find out what to do.
Racing games in VR are my weakness for sickness, I wish it wasn't because when I play without sickness its fantastic, better than any non VR racing game ever imo. I plan on working on that and getting used to it.
It isn't as common as in VR but saying that VR will fail because of it, is wrong. Did cars fail because of motion sickness, how about fairground rides? aeroplanes? VR is a new tech and people will get used to it. (yes I know its been out for years and there was some shit VR in the 90s but its never been as widespread on this scale and with this tech before). There are millions of headsets out there already, millions playing VR without constant sickness, and trust me VR is so worth not giving up because of feeling sick one time.
Hmm not sure my Wife and family are incels, but if you say so.
I have family come over all the time and play VR, my Wife loves it, my kids love it. Keep talking and nobody explodes is a great game that I play a lot with my family. we have a laminated bomb manual just because we play it so much, it's a blast
There are many other games that cross play VR with non VR. I've played Minecraft with my kids, one of us in VR and others on android or windows. I also play Rec Room with my kids in VR, One on PSVR, one on Rift, YES YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO THAT WOW. From tomorrow ill have the Oculus Quest all in one, no tethered headset that can play Rec Room too. VR can be a solitary experience, but so can playing a flat screen game in a room by yourself. Your argument is flawed due to your lack of knowledge and your desperation for VR to fail, although I cannot understand why people like you want it to fail so badly and spoil other people's enjoyment of the tech? Are you scared of something?
I am scared of something. I'm scared that people actually believe this kind of BS and VR failing due to naysayers who are scared of change. This tech is too good to give up, just ignore it if you don't care about it. If you really are scared of something then tell us, let us alleviate your fears. VR wont ever replace flat screen games, they work together. I wish people who have no experience or have tried VR one time and had a bad experience would at least say so and not pretend they know what they are talking about. Stop regurgitating what you have read and actually do some research before you post then maybe you wouldn't look so silly.
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Ar¢tos
Member
If you don't like it, don't buy it and leave those that like it enjoy it.
I don't get these hate posts with desperate attempts to justify their dislike.
VR blindness? Not compatible with humans?
That's pretty much scrapping the bottom of the excuses jar.
Did VR hurt your family or something?
Can't you simply ignore it, if you are not interested in it?
Virtual Reality, as an extension of Video Gaming, is not new, but it reaches to the public is. VR will hold it's placed in simulation and medical research. However, in gaming, it is likely to fad out within 10 years. ... I will agree, it does bring a new experience to the way we play games, but so has motion-based gaming.
Krabba
Neo Member
I come from the perspective of someone who used to be very enthusiastic about VR. I have done my research on VR, it's part of my job as a tech-strategist, to evaluate the potential of different emerging technologies.
We've done extensive user-testing on both regular people and those who are more comfortable with technology. What we've seen time and time again is that once people get past the initial "wow"-effect, they quickly lose interest.
My office is full of nerds, we've got all kinds of VR-headsets, but they're collecting dust.
Our conclusion is that there are too many limitations (see my last post) for mainstream adoption. It is and will remain a niche product.
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gifgaf
Member
After your last post I find that hard to believe.
I talk to many people who love VR, Reddit is full of people who love VR. I see a lot of people on VR who I recognise time and time again. My Playstation friends list is full of people who i see playing VR games This is real world proof for me.
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Krabba
Neo Member
There's no need to believe me, there's also no need to get butthurt. I'm not trying to take your headsets away. I'm just stating what's obvious to everyone outside the enthusiast community: The mainstream consumer has no interest in VR.
Fuz
Banned
It's a discussion. Do you want it to be one-sided only? You only want to talk in echo chambers?
gifgaf
Member
Then maybe you shouldn't start your discussions with a insult to people like me who enjoy VR and calling us an incel...
How obvious is it? Its obvious to people who have no real experience in VR? How about the fact that the sales of headsets are selling out on multiple stores on the first day of sale? Vive Index sold out same day and is on back order until September I believe at last look, Oculus Rift S sold out same day, Oculus Quest sold out same day. The new Rift headsets became top sellers on amazon the same day. These are all things that go against your "Conclusion".
VR is selling better than ever. I've had a couple of years of people saying its niche, its a fad, it will die out, but all signs point to the opposite. I still am excited for new games and experiences just as much as flat games, I've had a headset since the first year of Vive and Rift, Before that even with cardboard, yet i'm hungry for the tech to get better and bigger games.
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Krabba
Neo Member
I'm sure that you love VR and that it's really great for you, and that's awesome, but you're not the average person.
Look at the sales numbers to see how people, not you, feel about the technology. VR is selling better than ever, sure. But is it selling well? No.
gifgaf
Member
Oh this old chestnut, how do you know how many are sold? Do you have insider info? I doubt it. Your guessing and assuming. This is my problem. I show you facts you give me assumptions and guesses.
Here's some real world proof VR is selling well, a screenie I took.
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Krabba
Neo Member
If the sales numbers were great they would be all over neogaf buy they're not.
gifgaf
Member
Check my last post for my proof, wheres yours? apart from assumptions?
But Neogaf is your go to for sales facts right?
Heres more info after a quick google.
Oculus Quest Hit #1 Selling Video Games Product On Amazon
Oculus Sells First Week Of Quest And Rift S Shipments, New Preorders Ship May 29
Oculus Quest predicted to sell 1.3 million units this year (I bet it beats that target)
Valve Index bundles are selling out already
Valve Index Full Bundle Preorders Sold Out, Ships By September 30 In USA
And this is not mentioning the other headsets on the market that are coming. Sony is putting some serious effort into the next PSVR headset if all the rumours are to be believed and with the new patents they have made they seem to be doing a VR push for the next gen. I guess your not a tech-stratagist for Sony then.
This is why I roll my eyes when I read arguments like yours, i'm seeing growth in VR and anyone who knew what they were talking about would see all this too. Facebook, Valve, Sony are the 3 big hitters in VR atm, That's some serious cash and backing right there. do you think they know less than you do?
[EDIT]
look, I may have gone a little hard on you sorry. I just wish people would just do their research before commenting and not make up crap. There is a grain of truth to your comments, VR right now is young and not ready for the big time. Tethers and heavier headsets than you would like are both downsides, maybe the Oculus Quest will start to change the landscape there.
The potential for VR is too great to ignore and dismiss. My guess is VR will become common place, the next 10 years are exciting.
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Wonko_C
Member
That's more an issue of unawareness than disinterest. It's a marketing nightmare since it's impossible to show what's it about short of demoing it in person, 95% of the population have never tried VR.
More people would be into it if there was more awareness, maybe VR arcades will help lower the barrier.
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gifgaf
Member
This is a huge problem with VR. You cannot explain how VR is and you cannot show people what its like on a flat screen, they have to experience it to understand. People will look at a video of VR in action and dismiss it as it looks like ass on a flat screen and you don't experience the immersion. (I hate having to use that buzz word, I can imagine people getting sick of it and dismissing it but it really is the best way to describe it)
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INC
Member
Games like firewall proved to me that VR isnt just a fad
PsVr Isnt the bets tech wise, but the gameplay and illusion is good enough for a first gen outing to see that the ps5 version will defo be a day 1 for me
The resolution of the gfx and screen need updating, and only ps5 can do that
But still highly impressed with ps VR, considering I paid £200 for it.
PsVr Isnt the bets tech wise, but the gameplay and illusion is good enough for a first gen outing to see that the ps5 version will defo be a day 1 for me
The resolution of the gfx and screen need updating, and only ps5 can do that
But still highly impressed with ps VR, considering I paid £200 for it.
gifgaf
Member
At the risk of some people dismissing it, here's a video about a baptism (Wait wait, give it a chance) happening in VR. I think has some good points on how VR can be very useful for some people who do not have a good social life or are disabled. VR is fun place but can also be a life saver for people who are not as lucky socially.
My Father in law recently he had a stroke a little over a year ago. he lost movement on all his right side but his left side is still working. He spent a full year in hospital and nursing homes until he recently came home. I bought him an Oculus Go to give him that break since he was basically grounded and couldn't go anywhere. I think it helped him a lot. It has a single controller and a pointer in VR he can point at things and change videos in Netflix, he also can play some games with a gun.
This is what I think some people ignore when it comes to VR.
My Father in law recently he had a stroke a little over a year ago. he lost movement on all his right side but his left side is still working. He spent a full year in hospital and nursing homes until he recently came home. I bought him an Oculus Go to give him that break since he was basically grounded and couldn't go anywhere. I think it helped him a lot. It has a single controller and a pointer in VR he can point at things and change videos in Netflix, he also can play some games with a gun.
This is what I think some people ignore when it comes to VR.
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Romulus
Member
Pretty amazing actually considering the tech is still expensive.
The arguement for VR being a fad continues to lose ground. It will only get worse as headsets improve exponentially and prices drop.
_William
Neo Member
gifgaf
Member
Lets not forget the wonderful invention made by Nintendo:
Oooo can I have a go.
Mmm sexay.
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zeioIIDX
Member
I just watched Dumb & Dumber and I Am Legend with total strangers in a VR movie theater last night and had an amazing time. I've played Rec Room with two of my childhood friends I haven't seen in almost a decade (who live 15 hours away) and I felt like we were just chilling like old times and hadn't missed a beat. Moments like that will help VR take off I think.
DarthBuzzer
Member
You don't seem to understand VR very well.
- Laziness is not an issue considering that VR offers relaxing seated experiences. You choose what you want to do when you want to do it. Do you want to play some intense games standing up, or just relax while sitting down?
- VR can very easily mix freely with the real world given more advancements in computer vision and eventually fully hybrid AR/VR glasses. Isolation is a non-issue with refined tech.
- Motion sickness is potentially curable by drowning the vestibular system in white noise. It's also something that most people can overcome with added comfort options.
- VR won't rely on gaming alone for adoption. It doesn't even matter if VR was only suited for playing games while standing; it would still get tons of use for socialization, telepresence, computing, and more. No matter how tired someone is after work, you'll still adapt to fundamentals of daily life, which VR serves well.
Doing what research? You have established a view that I would consider normal among people who stumbled upon VR technology for the first time only 2 weeks ago. You have no real knowledge on the subject, so why pretend otherwise? If this is part of your job, I'm sorry to say but you really need to actually do your job properly instead of dismissing technologies outright with 5 minutes of research. If this is what you do, then don't be surprised if VR flies past your head when it becomes important in enterprise.
You are being unbleievably shallow-minded here. Let me tell you how to do your job as I'm better suited for your position. Future. You have to think about things in a future context. You can't do market testing today and wrap up the whole subject. That's like saying PCs have no use or easy access back in the 70s because you did market testing and no one understood how to operate command line interfaces.
It's amazing how someone can hold a job that relies on strategizing future endevours when they are incapable of thinking about future endevours.
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INC
Member
Rec room paintball is amazing fun, BR rec room looks great too
Waiting on everybody's golf on Friday now
Ps move is really lacking analogue sticks tho, its fi e in rec room tho, the ps aim controller is a great controller tho
Krabba
Neo Member
But Neogaf is your go to for sales facts right?
Heres more info after a quick google.
Oculus Quest Hit #1 Selling Video Games Product On Amazon
Oculus Sells First Week Of Quest And Rift S Shipments, New Preorders Ship May 29
Oculus Quest predicted to sell 1.3 million units this year (I bet it beats that target)
Valve Index bundles are selling out already
Valve Index Full Bundle Preorders Sold Out, Ships By September 30 In USA
Oculus Quest Hit #1 Selling Video Games Product On Amazon
The Oculus hitting #1 on Amazon for a day or two says absolutely nothing about its long term success LOL. Sales peak at launch. Where does it place when the whole year is counted?
Oculus Sells First Week Of Quest And Rift S Shipments, New Preorders Ship May 29
Selling out says nothing about its success. How many units were produced? Did they create an artificial shortage to hype up the product?
Oculus Quest predicted to sell 1.3 million units this year
1,3 million, those are weak numbers. If the Switch sold 1,3 million a year this community would agree that it's DOOMED.
Valve preorders sold out
Same as above, sold out means nothing.
gifgaf
Member
Your weak ass arguments are showing you up. All opinions no facts. Comparing vr to an established tech like the switch and Nintendo is laughable, tech-stratagist you say?
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Krabba
Neo Member
I don't see anything expressed here but gut-feeling.
Krabba
Neo Member
Your weak ass arguments are showing you up. All opinions no facts. Comparing vr to an established tech like the switch and Nintendo is laughable, tech-stratagist you say?
You can't argue with the numbers. You're just making excuses.
gifgaf
Member
I can and I will.
Since we are talking Nintendo, lets look at them and do your research for you since you obviously can't do it yourself.
I'm cherry picking but lets go with the Nintendo DS, great handheld? Sold 128 million in its lifetime with different iterations, like the DSi and such. It sold around 2.3 million worldwide in its first year, and we are talking Nintendo here, the successor to the Gamboy advance!
You are talking complete BS and making up arguments and opinions on shit you do not know anything about Mr Tech-stratagist.
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Krabba
Neo Member
2,3 million DS sold in a year, those numbers are average to bad but still much higher than VR numbers. It's six years since dk1 was released. If VR hasn't been embraced yet, it never will.
These are sales numbers of products consumers want:
Kinect - 8 million units in its first two months.
The iPad - 3 million units in its first two months.
PS1 - two million units after six months on the market.
All of them were first movers in new markets.
gifgaf
Member
I did say I was cherry picking but cmon man none of those are in the same ballpark as VR. VR is a new tech.
Kinect was bundled, try harder!
Ipad was riding the wave of the touchscreen phone craze.
PS1 was not a first console are you mad!
You are comparing to established markets man, I thought you were a Tech-Stratagist.
Surely a tech-strategist like yourself can do better than that.
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DarthBuzzer
Member
I already outlined facts in my previous comment. Remember when I said isolation can be fixed? How laziness isn't even an issue? How motion sickness is not as big of an issue as you think?
I say VR's future is bright because almost all of the issues are all fixable, and that is the truth. How do I know? Because they are quantifiable. Some have already been fixed, and others just rely on refinement of existing technology.
Those comparisons are utterly bogus.
The KInect isn't a platform; it's just a peripheral that was far cheaper than VR and easy to market.
The iPad released after more than a decade of consumer tablets on the market. They never took off, until the iPad. Just like how smartphones existed long before the iPhone, but never took off until then.
PS1 is a 5th generation console. What use is it comparing a much more mature medium like gaming in the 90s compared to VR?
Do you get it yet? There have been almost no platforms in history that have taken off in under 10 years on the market. It takes a certain technology threshold, price, accessibility, and usability before that happens.
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Romulus
Member
These two posts just don't even sound like the same person. One one hand you have a typical internet gamer guy pulling data from the internet to prove his point(very different devices I might add), but then, on the other hand, there's this guy who comes from this super unique position(former VR enthusiasts to boot) that also has the answers from his tech strategist job. How convenient.
My bet? You constructed parts of your posts to add weight to your agenda. I don't think you were a part of any research team that looked into VR data, and even if you did, it's bizarre that you would even apply that across the board to future VR headsets. You even used the DK1 example "well, if that didn't succeed in 6 years, VR won't either. " That doesn't sound like it comes from the mind of someone who does research at all. VR is an evolving tech, its not like a console were the most consistent change is power and it's not stuck in time. It will improve by magnitudes.
There were several consoles that sucked in the beginning and had low sales but how did that turn out? It's just the way you apply data in such a general yet definitive way doesn't make sense, and definitely doesn't align with your supposed job. Something is way off. I don't claim to know what it is exactly, but I do know something's not right.
And also, even if you were part of some research team, you were testing tech that will be dated this year and the coming years. To add to that, how many documents come out about successful technologies that were deemed to be failures by research data? People hated touch screen phones in the beginning. Not saying VR will be the next smartphone, not even close but that's not my point.
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
How to make VR for the masses work
Step 1: Improve responsiveness. Stop making VR track EVERY MOVEMENT, focus on the important ones. Why do so many VR games read movements to the millimeter? It makes you look like you have multiple scherlosis or some other nerve disorder.
Step 2: Get buy in from AAA studios. We're so used to the epic games. We need a killer app for VR to take off.
Step 3: Get the price down. $400 is too much for what most see as a peripheral.
Step 4: Lose the wires. It's so hard going back to em just for this.
Step 1: Improve responsiveness. Stop making VR track EVERY MOVEMENT, focus on the important ones. Why do so many VR games read movements to the millimeter? It makes you look like you have multiple scherlosis or some other nerve disorder.
Step 2: Get buy in from AAA studios. We're so used to the epic games. We need a killer app for VR to take off.
Step 3: Get the price down. $400 is too much for what most see as a peripheral.
Step 4: Lose the wires. It's so hard going back to em just for this.
gifgaf
Member
Oculus Quest is our first all-in-one gaming system built for virtual reality. You can now play almost anywhere with just a VR headset and controllers.
No wires on this.
Out tomorrow for some if you Pre ordered.
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When we had power outings, I laid on my back on the bed and playe old Sega and Nes games with an Xbox controller on the GO using the void mode of Oculus TV.
That basically allows you to put the screen on the roof.
Vr allows you to be super active or extremely lazy.
Quests are shipping now and so far everyone that has received one is playing nonstop.
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gifgaf
Member
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
Interesting. The price looks reasonable too given it's an all in one system instead of a peripheral. I wonder how it performs with no PC though. I would wait for reviews.
