Support NeoGAF

[IbizaPocholo]

https://gamingbolt.com/vr-may-be-a-...t-probably-not-for-the-next-xbox-says-dev#nnn

According to Frost Earth Studio’s Andrea Marinelli, head of development on Mind Labyrinth VR Dreams, virtual reality is something she hopes will be more of a focus with next-generation hardware. We recently conducted an interview with Marinelli about the recently released VR title, and when asked about expectations from the next generation of consoles, Marinelli mentioned support for higher resolution VR headsets.

“I hope they’ll be powerful enough to make sure they’ll handle really good higher resolution VR headsets, and most importantly I hope they’ll release a VR bundle with much improved VR inputs,” Marinelli told GamingBolt. “It would be really cool to have inputs made specifically for VR.”

But is VR something that will become more integrated as time moves forward? As per Marinelli, while that seems likely in Sony’s case, with Microsoft, that might not necessarily happen. “For Sony? Probably yes, they’re seeing a growing and potential market. For Microsoft, it’s hard to tell, because they seem to ignoring VR a bit this last generation.”

 

[ArnoldSewerby]

I'm having kinect sweats here...


Just give us a more powerful box!!!

 

[AlexxKidd]

All I know is Astro Bot is the most fun I've had with a video game this year. Yes, that includes Spider-Man. Astro Bot doesn't happen without PSVR.

As for Microsoft, I think they leave the door open for VR.

 

[FranXico]

I'm having kinect sweats here...
Just give us a more powerful box!!!

Unlike kinect, making the hardware VR ready should beef up the base hardware specs on its own. Everyone will get something out of it, whether they buy the headset or not.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Playstation is an integrated hardware-software brand. Sony makes cameras, lenses, screens, etc so it's in their best interests to integrate VR into the PS5 experience as much as possible.

 

[mango drank]

Sony will do most of the VR research and development, and later MS will copy Sony's homework enter the VR space "when it has matured."

 

[mckmas8808]

Playstation is an integrated hardware-software brand. Sony makes cameras, lenses, screens, etc so it's in their best interests to integrate VR into the PS5 experience as much as possible.

EXACTLY! This should literally surprise no one! Did people expect them to drop VR with the PS5? They are using the PS3 Move controllers today still, so why would they give up on VR this fast? And of course, she is not saying a VR headset will be bundled with the PS5 console.

 

[Beyond Vast]

VR has gone the way of 3D or kinect. Way too niche and not really the kind of thing you want to focus a whole console on when maybe 5% of your console base might care.
Focus on Backwards Compatibility, adding value to subscription services, and allowing more and more people to play together easily (streaming to a pc or tablet, game sharing, streaming from servers, netflix like game subscriptions).
This goes for all the big 3.

 

[RoboFu]

Yeah ms should not spend the budget on useless things like vr. Add a wide bandwidth port to console to keep its options open and that’s it.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

VR has proven to have been all hype and no real take off. For quite some time now.

Microsoft realize it won't be another over 35 million Kinect, and so there's no point.

kinect. Way too niche

You can say many things about Kinect but Niche wasn't one of them. Might be the most successful video game fad ever. Well other than the Wii to some people.

 

[ThatOneGrunt]

Sony will do most of the VR research and development, and later MS will copy Sony's homework enter the VR space "when it has matured."

Please. Microsoft has done their fair share of research into VR and AR. They've invented new haptic feed back gloves, helped develop windows mixed reality headsets, and created Hololens. They have no reason to "steal" anything from sony.

 

[Stuart360]

This is a good thing for me. No gimmicks, just give us a powerhouse box.

 

[Barakov]

I'm having kinect sweats here...


Just give us a more powerful box!!!

Definitely my feeling. I see the need and appeal to put some focus on it but for most people a powerful box is all they need.

 

[Hendrick's]

Please Microsoft, keep on ignoring VR.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

EXACTLY! This should literally surprise no one! Did people expect them to drop VR with the PS5? They are using the PS3 Move controllers today still, so why would they give up on VR this fast? And of course, she is not saying a VR headset will be bundled with the PS5 console.

Yep, in the same way that console manufacturers have been streamlining their "pipeline" to allow smaller devs access, or standardizing Achievements/Trophies for all devs to use, or standardizing the Video Record feature (making it a hardware feature instead of software), or standardizing background installing/patching, or standardizing Sleep mode, I would imagine that Sony would push tools to help standardize VR modes for nearly all games released on the system. We have already seen many devs release separate VR modes (Star Wars Battlefront X-Wing mission) or integrate VR into the game itself without requiring a separate purchase (Resident Evil 7) and I don't see that vanishing next generation.

Curious to see how Sony goes about it, though. Will the PS5 be a traditional console? Or would they be ballsy enough to make a Switch clone that can slide into a VR headset shell, be played portable, or be played on the TV? I'd also like to see some measure of backwards compatibility with the old PSVR headset because a lot could be improved with better controllers, a better breakout box, and a better camera/sensor setup.

 

[WaterAstro]

It'll just be a peripheral device. Maybe they'll launch with a PSVR v2 bundle.

Sony will do most of the VR research and development, and later MS will copy Sony's homework enter the VR space "when it has matured."

I actually think Microsoft spent way more money than Sony on VR/AR because they were working so long on Hololens and the Mixed Reality, but they haven't put out anything lol.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

I'm having kinect sweats here...


Just give us a more powerful box!!!

Same here.

I’m starting to get worried about the PS5 VR talk

 

[mango drank]

Please. Microsoft has done their fair share of research into VR and AR. They've invented new haptic feed back gloves, helped develop windows mixed reality headsets, and created Hololens. They have no reason to "steal" anything from sony.

I actually think Microsoft spent way more money than Sony on VR/AR because they were working so long on Hololens and the Mixed Reality, but they haven't put out anything lol.

Good points. But is MS still putting significant time and money into it nowadays, like they once were? Or are Sony et al leading the VR charge for next gen? It's still wild west days for VR, lots of innovations yet to be developed fully.

 

[ThatOneGrunt]

Good points. But is MS still putting significant time and money into it nowadays, like they once were? Or are Sony et al leading the VR charge for next gen? It's still wild west days for VR, lots of innovations yet to be developed fully.

I mean microsoft disclosed information about their haptic controller back in april.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/res...reality-using-variable-stiffness-actuation-2/

And they were just talking about new depth sensors for Hololens back in may.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-microsoft-is-making-its-most-sensitive-hololens-depth-sensor-yet/

Also back in October it was reported that they were thinking of starting a VR/AR incubator located in China.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201810/21/WS5bcbc783a310eff30328396f.html

I don't think they have any intention of abandoning VR.

 

[mckmas8808]

Good points. But is MS still putting significant time and money into it nowadays, like they once were? Or are Sony et al leading the VR charge for next gen? It's still wild west days for VR, lots of innovations yet to be developed fully.

At least Sony is making a profit on each VR headset sold. So not only are they learning how to do VR on a console, they are also profiting from it. Best of both worlds.

 

[Blam]

Please Microsoft, keep on ignoring VR.

They can easily because even the PSVR is barely 3-4 percent of the entire group of users on PS4.

If we go with xbox numbers it would be around 10% of their own users.

VR is literally fucking pointless for consoles. Unless both go balls deep with trackers, and everything else then it's not worth it.

 

[Wonko_C]

Guess I'll be staying with Playstation for another generation, then. Microsoft seemingly hasn't come out of the 360 era. I still can't believe Xbox One controller doesn't even have gyro sensors.

 

[The Alien]

Yeah, I heard Sony is going full hog with VR and peripherals. Microsoft's strategy is not to sink a bunch of R&D money into VR and make the console capable to use existing PC peripherals.

Until VR gets a more widespread adoption and a deep library of killer games, I kinda like Microsofts approach (at least from a business perspective).

 

[Blam]

It'll just be a peripheral device. Maybe they'll launch with a PSVR v2 bundle.

I actually think Microsoft spent way more money than Sony on VR/AR because they were working so long on Hololens and the Mixed Reality, but they haven't put out anything lol.

But they did? They put out the Hololens kits? and the MR shit is in all of their headsets? There's no need for them to put R&D on a new headset. They have the WMR HMD's, and it requires a single damn cable to run it, they don't need to make new shit for their system just let people use the stuff that's already available.

Sure they could outsource Samsung or LG to make a shitload of Xbox branded headsets, but Microsoft already did their R&D they don't need to do more lol.

 

[The Alien]

Please Microsoft, keep on ignoring VR.

Lol.

Because most VR isnt already running of PCs/windows platforms?

Why spend millions on R&D for a console VR version when the adoption rate is in the tiny minority of users?

 

[captainraincoat]

Would be pretty funny if Sony go balls deep on the vr......until they start coming out with regular fully featured full game titles instead of the spurts we have now it's going to fail spectacularly.....and probably even worse than kinnect as not everyone can stand vr games

 

[pr0cs]

Still doesn't feel like a compelling reason to own VR, even with a very decent pc I really can't think of any must have software.

 

[Racer!]

Yeah, I heard Sony is going full hog with VR and peripherals. Microsoft's strategy is not to sink a bunch of R&D money into VR and make the console capable to use existing PC peripherals.

Until VR gets a more widespread adoption and a deep library of killer games, I kinda like Microsofts approach (at least from a business perspective).

Microsofts strategy is what its always been. Copy and paste. That company can only succeed by moats, as is seen time and time again. Given the financal freedom they have had since beginning of the 90`s, they have come up with spectacular little.

 

[bitbydeath]

Just give us a more powerful box!!!

Lucky for you a powerful CPU is required for VR to run properly.
I've been saying this for ages now that the CPU will get more priority over GPU due to VR.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

This is pure speculation coming from an indie developer. Obviously PSVR2 is a given, but as someone who is more familiar with Microsoft and their VR investment than this developer, I can say that there's a likelihood of it happening sometime during the next generation. At launch, most likely not, but I would say it's highly likely to happen midway through as a high resolution wireless headset release. Phil Spencer enjoys VR and is long-term bullish on it. He wants VR on consoles, but needs it to be wireless with AAA content before it happens, which brings me to the mid-generation conclusion.

VR has gone the way of 3D or kinect. Way too niche and not really the kind of thing you want to focus a whole console on when maybe 5% of your console base might care.
Focus on Backwards Compatibility, adding value to subscription services, and allowing more and more people to play together easily (streaming to a pc or tablet, game sharing, streaming from servers, netflix like game subscriptions).
This goes for all the big 3.

You haven't been looking correctly then, because VR was always meant to be where it is now. It's a medium, a completely different situation to Kinect which was a lot cheaper and a lot easier to market.

VR has proven to have been all hype and no real take off. For quite some time now.
Microsoft realize it won't be another over 35 million Kinect, and so there's no point.
You can say many things about Kinect but Niche wasn't one of them. Might be the most successful video game fad ever. Well other than the Wii to some people.

Actually, Microsoft probably realize it could sell close to Kinect next generation. It makes logical sense that a next gen VR headset would outsell anything today many times over, because a lot of the barriers can be fixed. VR is very much an important investment for them, so it's likely to happen on Xbox eventually.

They can easily because even the PSVR is barely 3-4 percent of the entire group of users on PS4.

If we go with xbox numbers it would be around 10% of their own users.

VR is literally fucking pointless for consoles. Unless both go balls deep with trackers, and everything else then it's not worth it.

You don't need trackers. You can do any kind of tracking with cameras, and that is how all tracking will be done as standard as it becomes more practical.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

I'm having kinect sweats here...


Just give us a more powerful box!!!

Amen. Just give me the most powerful box for the specs at the time. Leave the VR stuff as a peripheral and option for thise that want it.

 

[Stuart360]

I used to champion VR after trying a Oculus devkit years ago, but i couldnt give a shit now. VR IMO will never become mainstream until you can play proper games in VR, not walking simulators or eye toy/kinect style gimmick games.
When i can sit down with a controller and play COD, Battlefield, Skyrim, GTA, Mass Effetc, etc, while using VR just for the added visual immersion, then i'll give it another shot.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

I used to champion VR after trying a Oculus devkit years ago, but i couldnt give a shit now. VR IMO will never become mainstream until you can play proper games in VR, not walking simulators or eye toy/kinect style gimmick games.
When i can sit down with a controller and play COD, Battlefield, Skyrim, GTA, Mass Effetc, etc, while using VR just for the added visual immersion, then i'll give it another shot.

You can already do that with Skyrim, Wipeout, Hellblade, Alien Isolation.

You need to actually try some proper quality motion control games though, because the consensus is they are not gimmicks.

 

[CloudStrife_ca]

VR has gone the way of 3D or kinect. Way too niche and not really the kind of thing you want to focus a whole console on when maybe 5% of your console base might care.
Focus on Backwards Compatibility, adding value to subscription services, and allowing more and more people to play together easily (streaming to a pc or tablet, game sharing, streaming from servers, netflix like game subscriptions).
This goes for all the big 3.

I agree to disagree, looking to the recent releases like Firewall Zero Hour or Astrobot, the first gen of mainstream VR is really coming into its own, we're starting to see games come full circle that put you into full worlds as dev's learn how to utilize the tools to build these other worlds while you enjoy them from the comfort of your couch.

Theres the issue though, a bunch of people who pass on VR throwing it into the same bucket as something like the Kinect or the waggle of the Wii. If you're to really sit down, not demo one at a kiosk or in a store but sit down in your home, get your VR legs and play something Resident Evil 7 or Moss. It becomes really clear that VR has a place beside gaming as we know it now, not as a replacement but as a new branch of gaming.

As prices start to go down on headsets (I'm looking at you Black Friday on the calendar) the more people who get to sit down and really play, will definitely start to see things differently as they find something that really blows them away.

I think the pinnacle for PSVR the first gen will officially hit when Media Molecules 'Dreams' launches sometime in 2019. This will offer full creation mode of levels in VR with guidelines already outlining the level must be completed and tested as not to make players sick before the level is published. As a graphic designer, I can't wait to get my hands on that, I know there are some creative types out there who will take it to the next level and I feel that will be a huge deal for creative content by others who also enjoy VR.

Developing PSVR2 won't effect things like backwards compatibility, subscription services or allowing more people to play together while you stream, those are things your console provider of choice will include or wont include, PSVR2 will be another path to try out when you're ready.

 

[The Alien]

Microsofts strategy is what its always been. Copy and paste. That company can only succeed by moats, as is seen time and time again. Given the financal freedom they have had since beginning of the 90`s, they have come up with spectacular little.

Financially speaking, it seems to be a sound strategy that continues to pay of for one of the largest, most successful companies in the world.

 

[Three]

When i can sit down with a controller and play COD, Battlefield, Skyrim, GTA, Mass Effetc, etc, while using VR just for the added visual immersion, then i'll give it another shot.

You already can with the bolded and PSVR.

 

[120v]

my money is on nextbox being a trojan horse that offers compatibility with whatever MS ultimately does with AR/VR, so they essentially don't have to do anything at all

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

This is pure speculation coming from an indie developer. Obviously PSVR2 is a given, but as someone who is more familiar with Microsoft and their VR investment than this developer, I can say that there's a likelihood of it happening sometime during the next generation. At launch, most likely not, but I would say it's highly likely to happen midway through as a high resolution wireless headset release. Phil Spencer enjoys VR and is long-term bullish on it. He wants VR on consoles, but needs it to be wireless with AAA content before it happens, which brings me to the mid-generation conclusion.

You haven't been looking correctly then, because VR was always meant to be where it is now. It's a medium, a completely different situation to Kinect which was a lot cheaper and a lot easier to market.
Actually, Microsoft probably realize it could sell close to Kinect next generation. It makes logical sense that a next gen VR headset would outsell anything today many times over, because a lot of the barriers can be fixed. VR is very much an important investment for them, so it's likely to happen on Xbox eventually.


You don't need trackers. You can do any kind of tracking with cameras, and that is how all tracking will be done as standard as it becomes more practical.

No, VR for a long time, won't be viable. We need another generation gap before VR becomes what people always want it to be. A completely Wireless, High end, large field of view, Slightly bigger than large sunglasses, 4k experience. We aren't getting that next gen.

Microsoft is investing in AR which will likely be a much bigger hit, especially for off-gaming features like GPS in your car.

You need to actually try some proper quality motion control games though, because the consensus is they are not gimmicks.

This is false.

 

[Blam]

You don't need trackers. You can do any kind of tracking with cameras, and that is how all tracking will be done as standard as it becomes more practical.

Not saying you need them I'm just saying they are gonna go balls deep in the sense with all of the accessories.

 

[Racer!]

Financially speaking, it seems to be a sound strategy that continues to pay of for one of the largest, most successful companies in the world.

The moat is whats paying off. They provide a function for competition in the gaming space. Beyond that, they are useless as well as clueless as far as I`m concerned.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

No, VR for a long time, won't be viable. We need another generation gap before VR becomes what people always want it to be. A completely Wireless, High end, large field of view, Slightly bigger than large sunglasses, 4k experience. We aren't getting that next gen.

Microsoft is investing in AR which will likely be a much bigger hit, especially for off-gaming features like GPS in your car.

Next gen, 4K is totally possible, as is wireless. We know that Oculus had their 4K x 4K per eye 2021 goal at least met or exceeded. The only iffy areas are extremely wide field of view and slightly bigger than sunglasses which certainly won't happen that fast.

Microsoft is investing in AR and VR, not just one. Almost everyone is either doing both now, or plan to do both in the future because we all know that they will completely converge and overlap.

This is false.

You'll find that is the genuine consensus. You're projecting a personal view into this. I'm using what everyone else thinks. Reviews + community feedback do not lie. Astro Bot and Lone Echo / Echo VR are games that are enjoyed by the vast majority.

 

[sublimit]

“For Sony? Probably yes, they’re seeing a growing and potential market. "

 

[DarthBuzzer]

Not saying you need them I'm just saying they are gonna go balls deep in the sense with all of the accessories.

They might if they can't figure out camera tracking fast enough. But they have no need to if they do. Peripherals for certain games like the Wii's racing wheel can still sell to a large audience.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

You'll find that is the genuine consensus. You're projecting a personal view into this. I'm using what everyone else thinks.

You are not. Also the market clearly doesn't agree with your feelings either.

Next gen, 4K is totally possible, as is wireless. We know that Oculus had their 4K x 4K per eye 2021 goal at least met or exceeded. The only iffy areas are extremely wide field of view and slightly bigger than sunglasses which certainly won't happen that fast.

.

It is not possible to do 4K next gen unless you think next gen is 10+ years from now. Wireless maybe but it'll still be bulky or there will be a cut somewhere.

Also 2021 4k goal met or exceeded? It's not even 2019 yet.

Also we are talking real 4k.

 

[DarthBuzzer]

You are not. Also the market clearly doesn't agree with your feelings either.

You clearly won't listen to anything that is in disagreement with yourself. Ignore facts if you want. And the market is irrelevant, because the only data that matters is data from those who have played, because VR cannot be judged without playing. Otherwise we might as well say "People don't like the taste of Burger King's red colored burgers" using data from people who commented on an article about it without having tried it. Pointless data.

It is not possible to do 4K next gen unless you think next gen is 10+ years from now. Wireless maybe but it'll still be bulky or there will be a cut somewhere.

Also 2021 4k goal met or exceeded? It's not even 2019 yet.

Also we are talking real 4k.

Real 4K is 60 PPD. Google already showed off displays at 40 PPD. Oculus are aiming for at least 30 PPD by 2021. (now 2022, so likely higher)
That 2021 goal was in reference to whether 4K x 4K per eye would be in consumer VR by 2021. Oculus acknowledged that it would be easy to use displays around that resolution that have been publicly revealed already. Cost is still a factor, but we're still 3 years away from 2021.

Real aka perceived 4K is not needed for VR to be 'viable' as 1080p (non-VR) displays are already completely fine for most people.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

You clearly won't listen to anything that is in disagreement with yourself. Ignore facts

Which you haven't provided. The consensus is mixed. You don't want to look for anything that doesn't align with what you want so you ingore the community against it.

consumer VR by 2021.

That's exactly what the issue is. We won't be getting complete VR sets with light weight, Wireless, great scree, FOV, 4K 60fps next gen. The eventual goal is for it to be at a price/feature ratio that makes people want to buy it in large numbers. They don't want to overhype things like they did with the current generation.

 

[Blam]

They might if they can't figure out camera tracking fast enough. But they have no need to if they do. Peripherals for certain games like the Wii's racing wheel can still sell to a large audience.

I mean microsoft uses IR just like the Oculus Quest. But they'd most likely use some sort of laser system if not their inside out tracking with their own headset.

 

[OverIt]

If this is the case, I see many people leaving Sony if it is forced on them when they buy the system.

 

[SlashBringingHasher]

BC will be very beneficial for VR. the platform is new and it needs good games immediately. BC will be a must for those games. having patches to increase their framerate and resolution on PS5 would be a big one up over anything microsoft would offer because you have no games or even a VR games studio which Sony created a year or two ago

tho its not like microsoft needs to be VR. it will pretty much always be a niche market

 

[DarthBuzzer]

Which you haven't provided. The consensus is mixed. You don't want to look for anything that doesn't align with what you want so you ingore the community against it

https://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/astro-bot-rescue-mission
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/lone-echo
https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1368187813209608/
https://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/echo-arena
https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1369078409873402/

The consensus is vastly positive.

Your turn to provide.

That's exactly what the issue is. We won't be getting complete VR sets with light weight, Wireless, great scree, FOV, 4K 60fps next gen. The eventual goal is for it to be at a price/feature ratio that makes people want to buy it in large numbers. They don't want to overhype things like they did with the current generation.

2021 is right at the beginning of next gen. I'm not saying we'll get perceived 4K or an ultra-wide FoV (200 degrees+) that fast, but some of what you mentioned is likely to be there. We certainly don't need perceived 4K in the first place.