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Wacom Cintiq - why you so damn espensive?

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dangeROSS said:
It's like this thread was reading my mind. I came very close to finally pulling the trigger and getting a Cintiq 12WX recently. But the idea of Wacom releasing a new version in the hopefully near future made me change my mind. So I'm still waiting for them to release an affordable new Cintiq. Has there been any real confirmation on upcoming products from them?

I've had an Intuos 3, and currently have an Intuos 4 and I love it.
But I feel the Cintiq would be so much more enjoyable to use. I would have bought one ages ago if they weren't so insanely expensive. Wacom needs some competition so we can finally start to see the prices fall on these things.
Click to expand...
you ever used a bamboo? if not, how does the intuos3 compare to the intuos4?
 
I've never used a Bamboo before. The jump from Intuos3 to the 4 was noticeable, but not Earth shattering. I think the Intuos4 let me produce smoother lines and detected tilt and a bit more pressure. But that may be just be my opinion on things. I also like the newer scroll wheel on the 4. However the face buttons are all the same on the 4, so it's easy to confuse one button with another without looking at things. The Intuos 3 buttons were different sizes and seemed easier to differentiate to me. Both pens seemed similar to me, and I don't think one was better then the other.

Yes Unfortunately I have an early Intuos4, so it has a material that is prone to being scratched and wearing out your nibs more. I didn't want to believe the problem at first, but it's there. For a while I just used a piece of paper on top of the surface, but it looked pretty bad and had to be taped on. So I've just started using a screen protector sheet with it. It works suprisingly well, and it's helping so far. Although you lose the more "paperlike" texture doing this. Supposedly newer Intuos4 models had the material changed so it would solve the issue.
 
I use to be a big fan of paper texture, but now I find it annoying. I don't want a glassy surface to draw on either (I'm looking at you, 12WX...), so I don't like excessive texture slowing my hand down either.

I guess I really got use to the polycarbonate surface on the 21UX...

BTW. more texture on surface = faster nib wear...
 
Interesting. I've heard the Cintiq's surface was sort of a hybrid between paper and glass. I would love to try one some time. I reaaaally hope they come out with a new affordable model within the next year or so.

One of the hardest things for me to adjust to was the lack of friction when using the tablet. I still kinda miss it. And I think I'm still trying to adjust to things really. It's too bad that more texture can cause more issues with the tablets. However I would have thought Wacom's R&D departments would have realized how bad things could get with the Intuos4 as it was, and not done something to try and fix it. Ah well. I haven't heard of the issue with the Intuos5, I guess they've fixed things now?
 
Please excuse my cry for help, but am I the only one with a convertible PC (Fujitsu T730 in my case) that notices a very disturbing misalignment between the tip of the pen and the cursor?

The worst part about it is, that it's not equal around the screen: e.g.: in the upper right corner the cursor is about 2mm too far below the tip of the pen, bottom right it's 2mm above it and so on. I find it tough to do even doodle around like that. Which basically would be the extent of most of my work anyway, but still, I'm rather disillusioned about the whole state of affairs.

All tries at calibration so far have proven futile. If any of you have anything to say about it (even if it's just to confirm that this is actually the way all are, and that I as a novice will get used to it eventually), I'd greatly welcome it. Thank you.
 
Heard from a little birdy, not Shog, that we're going to hear some exciting news tomorrow. So hold on to you wallets a little longer :D
 
so intuos4s that were made after october 2010 apparently fi3ed the nib wear problem is there any way of knowing whether the model i'll purchase was made after oct 2010?
 
mysticwhip said:
fuck it, i might go with the intuos4 small, do i need more nibs or do the 10 replacement nibs that comes in the box sufficient enough.
Click to expand...
Eh, I have a medium and I wouldn't imagine myself doing my work on a Small. The Medium is a decent size, about the same w+l as a standard laptop. vVery thin, and perfect.
I know its a little extra but Its worth it, dont cripple you workflow to save a few extra bucks.


Also, has anyone tested out the Intous5's yet? impressions over the 4?
 
RayStorm said:
Please excuse my cry for help, but am I the only one with a convertible PC (Fujitsu T730 in my case) that notices a very disturbing misalignment between the tip of the pen and the cursor?

The worst part about it is, that it's not equal around the screen: e.g.: in the upper right corner the cursor is about 2mm too far below the tip of the pen, bottom right it's 2mm above it and so on. I find it tough to do even doodle around like that. Which basically would be the extent of most of my work anyway, but still, I'm rather disillusioned about the whole state of affairs.

All tries at calibration so far have proven futile. If any of you have anything to say about it (even if it's just to confirm that this is actually the way all are, and that I as a novice will get used to it eventually), I'd greatly welcome it. Thank you.
Click to expand...

So I'm going to venture a guess that you noticed the problem AFTER you did a calibration... Here's the thing with Tablet PCs: I NEVER touch the pen alignment calibration from the initial OS installation. You will NEVER get it better than how it come out of the box from OS install. NEVER. You'll just make things worse.

I noticed this from back in the day so I never do alignment calibration with any of my Tablet PCs. Cintiqs are different though. It's calibrations do seem to improve things.
 
RayStorm said:
Please excuse my cry for help, but am I the only one with a convertible PC (Fujitsu T730 in my case) that notices a very disturbing misalignment between the tip of the pen and the cursor?

The worst part about it is, that it's not equal around the screen: e.g.: in the upper right corner the cursor is about 2mm too far below the tip of the pen, bottom right it's 2mm above it and so on. I find it tough to do even doodle around like that. Which basically would be the extent of most of my work anyway, but still, I'm rather disillusioned about the whole state of affairs.

All tries at calibration so far have proven futile. If any of you have anything to say about it (even if it's just to confirm that this is actually the way all are, and that I as a novice will get used to it eventually), I'd greatly welcome it. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Maybe something like this would help?

http://www.xiirus.net/articles/arti...tablettouchscreen-with-more-points-92oq6.aspx

(Just adjust the placement of points with how it correlates to your resolution)

Edit: Microsoft changed the program a bit for windows 7... So don't set points behind the center text bubble as you won't be able to click them
 
Like dopey mentioned try extra calibration programs. I don't know how it works with wacom digitizers, but when I had to calibrate a resistive digitizer I could never get it right until I got a hold of another calibration program that has more points and more accuracy.
 
Shogmaster said:
So I'm going to venture a guess that you noticed the problem AFTER you did a calibration... Here's the thing with Tablet PCs: I NEVER touch the pen alignment calibration from the initial OS installation. You will NEVER get it better than how it come out of the box from OS install. NEVER. You'll just make things worse.

I noticed this from back in the day so I never do alignment calibration with any of my Tablet PCs. Cintiqs are different though. It's calibrations do seem to improve things.
Click to expand...

Nope, misalignment was there prior to calibration. And on another factory new T730 I tried. And I believe I saw similarly on a HP touchsmart tm2 I tried in a store after I already had my T730. The most disappoint part about all this is, the technician I visited several times (not just for the misalignment issue) said something to the effect that it actually was calibrated quite well.

DopeyFish said:
Maybe something like this would help?
Click to expand...

Thanks, but nope, I tried that way back when I got my T730 to no avail.

Then again, after just having a quick go with the standard calibration software, there's this uncertainty whether it's me and holding the pen wrong and or not really hitting the right spots with the pen when calibrating. Frustrating!
 
Ooh... I had no idea Painter 12.2 supports touch UI! Would that be enough compensation to go for the 24HD Touch and it's reduced color range and giant child crushing form factor...
 
ooo rotation stand..thats sound handy
now i need 2k more..think i only have enough for the tax and shipping...though the 24inch HD touch does sound good..
 
RayStorm said:
Nope, misalignment was there prior to calibration. And on another factory new T730 I tried. And I believe I saw similarly on a HP touchsmart tm2 I tried in a store after I already had my T730. The most disappoint part about all this is, the technician I visited several times (not just for the misalignment issue) said something to the effect that it actually was calibrated quite well.



Thanks, but nope, I tried that way back when I got my T730 to no avail.

Then again, after just having a quick go with the standard calibration software, there's this uncertainty whether it's me and holding the pen wrong and or not really hitting the right spots with the pen when calibrating. Frustrating!
Click to expand...

You'll get used to it. Stare at the tool tip and not your pen tip. It's good enough having the pen in proximity - and you'll understand why it's not that important to have it dead on when you start playing with brush sizes and shapes.
 
I may settle on 22HD for price and rotation alone

But that 24HD has a touch ring and an awesome stand

Gah

I was thinking about getting a 21UX before and eventually settled for the 24 due to 21UX never being available
 
DopeyFish said:
I may settle on 22HD for price and rotation alone

But that 24HD has a touch ring and an awesome stand

Gah

I was thinking about getting a 21UX before and eventually settled for the 24 due to 21UX never being available
Click to expand...

If you get a 24HD you can assign a command to rotate the canvas to one of the touch rings, IIRC. It's not as natural as just rotating the whole thing but in some ways it's more practical.

In terms of having something you can rotate at will - this is what I can't wait to see how well the Surface Pro will handle.
 
FStop7 said:
If you get a 24HD you can assign a command to rotate the canvas to one of the touch rings, IIRC. It's not as natural as just rotating the whole thing but in some ways it's more practical.

In terms of having something you can rotate at will - this is what I can't wait to see how well the Surface Pro will handle.
Click to expand...

Well I loved adjusting brush sizes on the go and using zoom with the touch ring on my intuos
 
DopeyFish said:
so wacom announced the 22HD just now

hmmmmmm it's like the old 21 incher

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/10/wacom-cintiq-22hd/

i wish it had a touch ring :(((( but there's a touch strip on the back... not sure if new or not

also the 24HD touch for a staggering $3700 yikkessss
any other sizes? :-s
Click to expand...
I like! 21UX had the strips too.

I was going to get a 21UX a couple of months ago so lucky I waited. I still don't know if I'll get a 22HD but at least the updated option is there if I decide to
 
I wonder if that 24HD touch would be any good with windows 8. Was planning on replacing my 12wx sometime in the next year or two...

EDIT: Nevermind, it's another 1100 on top just for multitouch, F that.
 
Nice! Time to sell my cintiq, wish I new about this sooner :( the LED alone is worth it, I hate how hot my cintiq gets.
 
mysticwhip said:
so intuos4s that were made after october 2010 apparently fi3ed the nib wear problem is there any way of knowing whether the model i'll purchase was made after oct 2010?
Click to expand...
On the Wacom EU forums, an admin was taking requests for model numbers and saying if it was new or old. If you could find that thread you'd probably get an answer.

Mine is old. So I ordered a "new" surface sheet by that apparently fixed the nib problem. It didn't :/
I will say though, that only brand new sheets wore down my nibs. Once the sheet took a bit of wear and became smoother, my nibs last forever almost.
 
Ugh why do I have such insane lust for this. :(

Oh well, not as if I can come up with $2000 anytime soon, so I'm safe for now.
 
Is that new Cintiq what you were hinting about, Shog, or are the more announcements on the horizon? I guessing the reason Wacom hasn't released a smaller Android or Windows tablet is because they don't want to cannibalize sales of the more expensive models?!
 
Hey Shog, have you seen this?

re4bt.jpg


The Stylistic (that's the brand name, not an editorial opinion) Q702 is a hybrid tablet in the style of Asus' Transformer range. It has 11.6-inch 1366 x 768 display protected by Corning Gorilla Glass that supports touch and pen input, and will be configurable with a range of Ivy Bridge Core i3 and i5 processors, up to 128GB of SSD storage, HD Graphics 4000, and the same enterprise-ready security features as the Lifebook T902. Its detachable keyboard dock features a two-button trackpad, an ethernet port, a pair of USB ports, and a VGA port for all your projecting needs. Like Asus' Transformer range, the keyboard dock also contains a battery that extends the tablet's battery life to 10 hours (alone the tablet will last just four and a half hours).
Click to expand...

http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/10/3148611/fujitsu-lifebook-t902-stylistic-q702-release-date-price
 
I'm in the process of acquiring a lightly used 2730p for $250 locally. I hope it does the trick of finally having a digital sketchbook -- my iPad is great for many, many things, but I just can't get used to the sketching capabilities.
 
Jorok Goldblade said:
I've been using this for a few weeks, and so far I'm pretty satisfied with it:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005EDNAPU/?tag=neogaf0e-20

31WlNqvtO-L._SL500_AA300_.jpg


This guy does a pretty good review, as well as one for the 19" model
http://frenden.com/yiynova-budget-cintiq-alternative/


I've also read that there's a wireless version, but apparently that is complete garbage.
Click to expand...
I'm in the market for a display tablet. I was never a fan of not being able to see what I'm drawing and it's getting old. This (and it's price) looks really interesting and I'll be doing more research on it. I don't need anything fancy. No lag, zoom and the ability to speak to my PC is all I really need.

Why isn't the iPad a part of this conversation? I've always wondered about it's use as a display tablet. Is it possible to be used as one? If not, why?
 
Dark Octave said:
I'm in the market for a display tablet. I was never a fan of not being able to see what I'm drawing and it's getting old. This (and it's price) looks really interesting and I'll be doing more research on it. I don't need anything fancy. No lag, zoom and the ability to speak to my PC is all I really need.

Why isn't the iPad a part of this conversation? I've always wondered about it's use as a display tablet. Is it possible to be used as one? If not, why?
Click to expand...

pretty sure Shog trashed this on the page back...

iPad isn't in the conversation because it's more of a hobbyist thing now. There's no way you could do professional work on it. If you are just doodling around, I'm sure it's fine.

I'm probably gonna do the 15x Shog was pimping. Just gotta save a little $$$.
 
No pressure sensitivity, limited apps (you can't use full blown versions of the Adobe suite or painter 12) and also from what I've seen it is kinda laggy when using pens.
 
The Cintiq 22HD looks pretty cool! But again it's so damn expensive. So it looks like I will be waiting a while longer before I ever buy one of these things. I was really hoping they would release a maybe smaller and more affordable model. I would think a less expensive option would sell really well with lots of people. Is it really more profitable to keep just the exclusively expensive models and not bother with anything else?
 
dangeROSS said:
The Cintiq 22HD looks pretty cool! But again it's so damn expensive. So it looks like I will be waiting a while longer before I ever buy one of these things. I was really hoping they would release a maybe smaller and more affordable model. I would think a less expensive option would sell really well with lots of people. Is it really more profitable to keep just the exclusively expensive models and not bother with anything else?
Click to expand...

There may be something to fill in the gap between the 12" model and 22" model eventually

Wacom is profitable but not super profitable...
 
dangeROSS said:
The Cintiq 22HD looks pretty cool! But again it's so damn expensive. So it looks like I will be waiting a while longer before I ever buy one of these things. I was really hoping they would release a maybe smaller and more affordable model. I would think a less expensive option would sell really well with lots of people. Is it really more profitable to keep just the exclusively expensive models and not bother with anything else?
Click to expand...

They are selling so many to studios it's ridiculous. At my job we waited for months to get the latest tablet at the time due to the high demand. They have a virtual monopoly when it comes to tablet tech and they know it.

PS I just up put up my 2 year old Cintiq up on ebay starting at 750.00 if you guys are interested. That's the good thing about them, at least you can sell them at a decent price even after a few years.
 
Obviously Cintiqs are beautiful, but I just recently got a Motion Computing LE1600 tablet PC off eBay for less than $100. It lets you draw on the screen with 256 levels of pressure sensitivity, which is enough for me. It's got a several hour battery life and has been, all things considered, pretty fantastic.
 
I didn't realize that the Cintiqs were so in-demand. I was hoping with the advent of all these new tablet devices that it would spur some competition in the market. But I guess it's not quite there yet.

What kind of Cintiq did you put on eBay Doc Holliday?
 
dangeROSS said:
I didn't realize that the Cintiqs were so in-demand. I was hoping with the advent of all these new tablet devices that it would spur some competition in the market. But I guess it's not quite there yet.

What kind of Cintiq did you put on eBay Doc Holliday?
Click to expand...

21UX DTZ it's the grey one 2 gens back.
 
Futureman said:
pretty sure Shog trashed this on the page back...

iPad isn't in the conversation because it's more of a hobbyist thing now. There's no way you could do professional work on it. If you are just doodling around, I'm sure it's fine.

I'm probably gonna do the 15x Shog was pimping. Just gotta save a little $$$.
Click to expand...

Antiwhippy said:
No pressure sensitivity, limited apps (you can't use full blown versions of the Adobe suite or painter 12) and also from what I've seen it is kinda laggy when using pens.
Click to expand...

DopeyFish said:
iPad is crap for drawing

Sketching, sure. But it's nowhere close to the class of tablet wacom makes.
Click to expand...
Thanks for these responses guys. This is something I have been wondering about for a long time and it's now put to rest. Also thanks for telling me that tablet I was interested in from a previous page is crap.
 
Divvy said:
Hey Shog, have you seen this?

re4bt.jpg




http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/10/3148611/fujitsu-lifebook-t902-stylistic-q702-release-date-price
Click to expand...

Yep. That's NTrig for sure. I'm more interested in the T902, but that might have switched to NTrig as well. I'm not aware of 13.3" 16:9 Penabled board...

Kabuki Quantum Lover said:
I'm in the process of acquiring a lightly used 2730p for $250 locally. I hope it does the trick of finally having a digital sketchbook -- my iPad is great for many, many things, but I just can't get used to the sketching capabilities.
Click to expand...

I recently switched from 2730p to 2740p. I tell ya, that was one of my favs. Put in a SSD and at least 4GB of RAM and it is one of the all time great Tablet PCs. Simply great for sketching.


Futureman said:
pretty sure Shog trashed this on the page back...

iPad isn't in the conversation because it's more of a hobbyist thing now. There's no way you could do professional work on it. If you are just doodling around, I'm sure it's fine.

I'm probably gonna do the 15x Shog was pimping. Just gotta save a little $$$.
Click to expand...

"Trashed" is a bit harsh. I just said that the pen is no where as good as Wacom with a very springy tip. I did trash the 19" version. The parallax on that bitch was MASSIVE.

The 10" version is interesting because it's the only portable Pen display out there: it runs on USB bus power. But because of that, it's limited to 1024x600 and 10" form factor. But at least it's truly portable (can run without wall socket), unlike the 12WX.


DopeyFish said:
There may be something to fill in the gap between the 12" model and 22" model eventually

Wacom is profitable but not super profitable...
Click to expand...

They will be replacing the 12" with something more usable and with Intuos 4/5 digitizer. It won't happen for a while though.

Doc Holliday said:
Jesus they are really pushing it lol. All that money for touch??
Click to expand...

Probably more money went into the LCD and the new cover that allows for 92% Adobe gamut. But fuck that price. Right up the ass. If you want to try touch in Painter 12.2, just get an Intuos 5 Small and map it to the same desktop space as the Cintiq. Voila, touch for you for $220. Hell, you could probably do it with Bamboo touch for $30 on Ebay! :D
 
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