Necromanti
Member
Actually, I think I know a post-doctorate assistant professor at my institution who makes about the same amount of money as you do now... Geez. I hope I succeed in pursuing a career in medical research.
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Wages Stink at America's Most Common Jobs
- Thread starter threetri333
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Technicians, geologists and other technical workers do quite well too. As do technical trades, though they don't quite count as STEM.
I have seen really great electrical designers who started as electricians. They did a particularly good job on designing systems because they understood every detail of how the systems would ultimately be built.
Contrary to popular belief, pharmacists do a whole lot more than just hand you pills. Until they develop a Pill-mo-tron 2000 with AI advanced enough to possess critical thinking skills, pharmacists will still be around.
Wait. Crap.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/04/health/quest-to-eliminate-diagnostic-lapses.html?pagewanted=all
ConradCervantes
Banned
Oftentimes I wonder if my two-year community college is right for me. My issue is I have no skillset off of which I could currently profit, and I don't know if my school now will help in that regard. I'm not too easily grossed out, so maybe I could be a plumber. Who knows. Bah.
Maybe it's where I am but technicians here are high-skill, low-paying jobs. The industry got really bad for this kind of manufacturing. If you get work, it's maybe a couple bucks over minimum wage and you'll likely get laid off before health benefits even kick in. I've been an electromechanical and electronics technician for several years and the one steady job I had wasn't worth the 30-45 minute drive to it in the dead of winter. It paid for my gas, cell phone and vehicle maintenance basically.
I'm sick of the poor paying jobs that are contract-based or seasonal even. I've been looking into power engineering, where the schooling/training works more like a trades apprenticeship.
i don't understand this attitude. people have to do these jobs. not everyone can be an engineer, a doctor, or an investment banker (lol). why should they be treated like shit for performing an inevitable and necessary task? and, from a purely pragmatic view, it makes no sense to not give the poor any disposable income in a consumer (read: demand) driven economy.
Either only some people work and get paid well and the rest live on subsistence welfare, or we change the system so that everyone works 25 hour weeks so there is enough work for everyone and pay moderately well, and quality of life goes up due to the freed up time.
Sanky Panky
Banned
You fudge economic data, ignore signs that it's not working, spin bad news, sensationalize any positive news, and increase the level of stimulus... until it all crashes down again.
Perhaps where it's you live, but I'm looking at the Association of Science and Engineering Technology Professionals of Alberta's salary survey and CETs with 0-4 years of experience make an average of 77k (including OT, bonuses, etc). It rises to about 100k for those with 10 years experience.
That's almost on par with engineers.
I'd personally like a living wage for everyone but it's basic supply and demand...
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
There really is no excuse, whether someone says only teenagers should do the job or that stay long enough and work hard and you can become a manager.
zero shift
Banned
I'm sure everyone has the funds, talent, and time to get one of the most difficult education achievements. Might as well knock on people for not becoming a doctor.
CornBurrito
Member
And even then a STEM degree is no guarantee.
zero shift
Banned
Pretty much. I know a guy who got a STEM degree, works as a waiter.
The cold hard reality as more jobs get outsourced, taken by technology, and have less unions backing them, there are less and less jobs that fit the "American dream" mantra. Neoliberalism has been such a disaster, particularly for the first world nations.
mugurumakensei
Member
If they majored in STEM, they'd be developing the robots to do just that.
jchap
Member
Robots designed by STEM majors
travisbickle
Member
Spend all that time, energy and money, and you end up making robots for McDonalds!!
Unknown Soldier
Member
The thread was about how 150k isn't 'rich'. Which it isn't. Is it a lot? Yeah. Is it 'rich'? No. Deal with it.
CornBurrito
Member
What STEM degree?
zero shift
Banned
I don't recall. But it had something to do with computers.
Those are quite some time away from being mainstream. Even then so when that time hits there still won't be nearly enough jobs.
Raitosaito
Member
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Doesn't it stand to reason that the "most common" should also reflect the "average"? That is, unless there is a huge discrepancy at the ends of the spectrum that throws everything in the middle out of whack.
Not really. The mode doesn't need to be anywhere near the mean or the median. It's also affected by different things. For instance, how you define job categories could significantly affect the mode, but it would leave the mean and the median entirely untouched.
yeah it's a shame we live in an anarcho capitalist dystopia
BrightEyedPanic
Member
68K is low? I'd love to make half that. Maybe then I could afford to go to school.
ZackieChan
Member
That sounds...illegal. Y'all should have a class action going asap.
We always will have enough people to fill these jobs.
If the wages go down to a point where they actually discourage people from working these jobs, it will then become hard enough to fill these positions so employers will tend towards raising wages to the point where people would be willing to do this work again.
If someone then invents a pizza-delivery-bot/janitor-bot/cook-bot/etc, and if the robot is cheaper than hiring a human, and it does the job exactly as well as a human, then the wages will settle down to the point at which it costs about the same to hire a human as it does to buy/maintain a robot that will do the job.
If people refuse to do the job for that wage, then the robots will just take over the entire job category, and we won't need people to do these jobs at all.
Again:
How much you get paid depends mostly on two factors in combination:
#1. How much value do you add to the end product your organization is trying to produce?
#2. How hard is it for your employer to replace you with someone or something that can do your job equally as well?
If your job doesn't score well on #2, no matter how valuable the work you are doing, you are going to get paid crap.
If you don't want to be paid crap, then you should try to choose a career where #1 is high AND #2 is high, through methods like:
- education (getting a degree that is hard to get but which is needed to fill a job, tends to make you harder to replace)
- skills (having a skill through practice, genetics, apprenticeship, going trade school, sports ability, etc)
- legal restrictions (having a medical license, or a professional engineering license, licenses that are hard to get, owning a patent, etc)
- labor unions (using collective bargaining and strikes to make it hard for an employer to replace you)
- fame (if you are famous, especially for your skill, you tend to be very hard to replace -- think about Jennifer Lawrence, or Johnny Depp, or Tiger Woods)
(This is clearly not an exhaustive list.)
But remember, if the method is easy, then a lot of people will use it, which means it's value declines for everyone.
For example, if getting a certain degree or credential was easy, then everyone would have one, and then you couldn't use it to enhance your #2.
The labor market does not exist in vacuum. While people may be "discouraged" from taking those jobs, they do need to eat and keep a roof over their heads. They need some sort of job for that, even if it doesn't take them all the way there. That kind of desperation feeds into the existing market power imbalance for wages at that end of the workforce.
But the fact remains that in general somebody needs to do those jobs, and slavery is supposed to be banned in America so we can't just treat them as subhuman.
Think about a corporation instead of the whole economy. The most common position (not the one with lowest wage) is almost always below the average.
Doesn't sound like much of a choice then. Laaaaand of the Freeee...
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Wanna know how I could afford to go to school?
1. Got Laid Off (2 years of school automatically paid for)
2. Lived off 401k+Pension+Unemployment
3. Got Pell Grants
That's it.
15+ years later, and that's the only way I was able to afford school... ever.
It's even harder now because...
1. States like NC have cut the unemployment payouts by nearly 50%
2. Pell Grants only work for 4 years now
3. You need to go full time to get a full 4 years of Pell Grants.
Lots of Assholes like to say things like "Duh you could work and go to school... duh..dur!"
No you can't, fuckface, unless you want to take like 2 classes a semester (in which case you probably won't get any financial help), don't want or have a family, enjoy forgetting everything you just learned because you can't apply it until you get out, and are ok with it taking 10 years to graduate.
This country could...
1. Raise minimum wage to an acceptable level. At least $9.00 per hour.
2. Force the rich of the rich to pay proper taxes. (no loopholes, no offshore tax evasion)
3. Cut down on outsourcing of jobs.
What this country will probably do...
A. Nothing
B. Something that makes it worse.
1. Got Laid Off (2 years of school automatically paid for)
2. Lived off 401k+Pension+Unemployment
3. Got Pell Grants
That's it.
15+ years later, and that's the only way I was able to afford school... ever.
It's even harder now because...
1. States like NC have cut the unemployment payouts by nearly 50%
2. Pell Grants only work for 4 years now
3. You need to go full time to get a full 4 years of Pell Grants.
Lots of Assholes like to say things like "Duh you could work and go to school... duh..dur!"
No you can't, fuckface, unless you want to take like 2 classes a semester (in which case you probably won't get any financial help), don't want or have a family, enjoy forgetting everything you just learned because you can't apply it until you get out, and are ok with it taking 10 years to graduate.
This country could...
1. Raise minimum wage to an acceptable level. At least $9.00 per hour.
2. Force the rich of the rich to pay proper taxes. (no loopholes, no offshore tax evasion)
3. Cut down on outsourcing of jobs.
What this country will probably do...
A. Nothing
B. Something that makes it worse.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Most of my college classmates worked part-time and some full time along with a full time class schedule. Then you graduate and companies say they want "experience" or to get a unpaid internship.
Mind blowing.
If you are single with no kids and can't live off of that then you are doing something wrong.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Some of us have high standards for living!
Shake Appeal
Member
And #3. How much your society values labour and is willing to distort the market to ensure a better standard of living for all. In America, the answer to this is usually "very little".
We all have the same. Food, Air, Sleep, Sex.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
You think I breathe the same air as peasants? Sleep the same sleep as commoners? Make love to anyone but models?
I'll eat a McChicken every now and then though to remind me of where I came from.
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