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[Munin]

Best question: how badly was Pulp Fiction robbed?

QT's self-referential nerd wank doesn't deserve a single award

 

[DarkFlow]

The only thing we know about Elmo was that he liked to talk a lot, according to Tommy. Prisons always have people bragging about shit. If just a part of his story was true (working at a country club), he would have most definitely been aware of the murders, and that Andy was convicted while saying he was innocent. So then a kid (Tommy) asks him who he has killed, and he decides to take credit for it.

Andy was guilty. There's no redemption if he was innocent all along.

What? Elmo knew ever part of the murder, and who it got pinned on. There's no doubt Elmo killed his wife and her lover.

 

[HurricaneJesus]

I don't get how everybody thinks that Andy is innocent just because of Tommy's story.

Andy did so much for Tommy that it would'nt be a stretch for Tommy to invent the whole thing just to help his mentor.

The story was never proven to be true or false in the movie because the warden kills Tommy right away to protect his money laundering scheme.

For me, Andy's culpability was always a sort of MacGuffin and I think in a way this is the most brilliant thing about the movie.

You are reading too far into it. He was innocent. Read the short story.

I first heard about Shawshank Redemption from a friend of mine. He told me he saw this awesome movie.

I asked him what is was about and he said: "It's about this guy who escapes from prison."

Still an awesome movie but it would have been nice not knowing the ending going into it.

The cover of the movie with Andy standing out in the rain with his arms up to the sky gives it away. The movie is not about his escape.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Has anyone here read the novella?
I always felt the movie version stretched the believability to breaking point, but there are several differences in the book that make things a bit more plausible.

I was supposed to read it for my film class but didn't, what were the differences?

 

[ShirAhava]

I escaped from prison, but it took 14 years and the help of my second father to escape.

holy crap its you!

 

[msdstc]

Prison breaks are always unlikely. He's just lucky he didn't get moved to another cell, which happens all the time. The fact he stayed in the same place so long with posters untouched is the unlikely part.

I've also always wondered: was Andy really innocent?

Yes he was innocent... it says it flat out in the movie.

Best question: how badly was Pulp Fiction robbed?

But Shawshank didn't rob Pulp Fiction. Forrest Gump won.

 

[The Technomancer]

Anyone who has even a passing interest should definitely read the novella. Its one of Stephen King's absolute best works. Its usually part of the Different Seasons collection, which also includes the amazing story Apt Pupil, quite possibly the most horrifying (and non-supernatural) thing he's ever written.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Yup, I just saw this on tv last night, as well.

 

[RustyNails]

I still don't understand why people are arguing over Andy's innocence. He didn't kill his wife and her lover. I don't think the Andy shown in the movie could be capable of such heinous crime. The "redemption" part comes from him successfully escaping the prison, stealing all of warden's illegal money, and becoming a new man. Warden shooting himself and Hadley being carried away is just icing on the cake. Never once does he admit even privately to Red that he killed his wife. Besides, the day before escaping the prison, he tells Red that he didn't kill his wife nor her lover. "Get busy living or get busy dying".

The real issue is can a 6'4 man crawl through a shitepipe for 500 yards and still be alive.

 

[hayejin]

And what would've happened if the warden did not kill Tommy and let him prove Andy's innocence and Andy is to be released?

What happens on the day of his release? They come to release him and take the poster and see the big hole? Oops. Back you go Andy.

 

[John Dunbar]

What? Elmo knew ever part of the murder, and who it got pinned on. There's no doubt Elmo killed his wife and her lover.

What did Elmo say that he couldn't have read about in the papers? A banker murdering his wife and her lover would have been big news, and someone who had been working at the club at the time of the murder would no doubt have been aware of the facts that came up at the trial. Tommy fell for a song of a jailbird, that's all. Andy was guilty.

 

[Psychotext]

Andy was a stone cold killer. You could see it in his eyes.

 

[RustyNails]

What did Elmo say that he couldn't have read about in the papers? A banker murdering his wife and her lover would have been big news, and someone who had been working at the club at the time of the murder would no doubt have been aware of the facts that came up at the trial. Tommy fell for a song of a jailbird, that's all. Andy was guilty.

You're not trolling...? This has gone into Shawshank fanfic territory.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Best question: how badly was Pulp Fiction robbed?

It wasn't.

At all.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Yes he was innocent... it says it flat out in the movie.

Does it? Or does one young unreliable prisoner tell a one in a billion far-fetched story? Last we saw Andy was outside the place his wife was having sex with that dude drinking booze with a gun in his hand.

Remember, the warden doesn't know anything. He just had the kid killed just in case.

 

[Speevy]

Random question: Am I the only person who forgets to breathe whenever a character in a movie/TV show is enclosed/drowning?

 

[vas_a_morir]

Random question: Am I the only person who forgets to breathe whenever a character in a movie/TV show is enclosed/drowning?

Yes.

 

[Speevy]

Yes.

 

[Kafarabo]

wtf pulp fiction was robbed pretty badly, you guys actually like forrest gump! are you kidding? AAAHHH I HATE YOU GAF!

 

[Jeff Albertson]

While not entirely like the movie, yes:

Didn't that guard commit suicide after that?

 

[John Dunbar]

You're not trolling...? This has gone into Shawshank fanfic territory.

Having a differing interpretation of a movie is trolling now? Fact is that we are never shown the murders, so we do not know who did it. The only reason to think Andy was innocent, other than him being such a swell guy, is that someone says that someone else who does not actually appear in the film outside a story confessed to the crime.

 

[Borgnine]

The movie also conveniently leaves out all the children Andy raped. But whatever, you people go ahead and celebrate him as a hero.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

wtf pulp fiction was robbed pretty badly, you guys actually like forrest gump! are you kidding? AAAHHH I HATE YOU GAF!

Saying it wasn't robbed doesn't mean you think Gump was the best picture that year. Shawshank and the other nominees were better in a lot of categories, particularly acting. Martin Landau, for example, beat the shit out of the competition that year and he deserved that gold.

 

[Jimothy]

What did Elmo say that he couldn't have read about in the papers? A banker murdering his wife and her lover would have been big news, and someone who had been working at the club at the time of the murder would no doubt have been aware of the facts that came up at the trial. Tommy fell for a song of a jailbird, that's all. Andy was guilty.

"I killed her. I didn't pull the trigger, but I drove her away."

Andy wasn't guilty, but he was in his mind's eye.

 

[Lathentar]

wtf pulp fiction was robbed pretty badly, you guys actually like forrest gump! are you kidding? AAAHHH I HATE YOU GAF!

If Shawshank won, instead of Forrest Gump, I don't think pulp fiction would have been robbed at all.

 

[John Dunbar]

"I killed her. I didn't pull the trigger, but I drove her away."

Andy wasn't guilty, but he was in his mind's eye.

There are no guilty people in Shawshank, so that sounds about right.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Random question: Am I the only person who forgets to breathe whenever a character in a movie/TV show is enclosed/drowning?

No, but I don't forget to breath, I do it on purpose.

 

[vas_a_morir]

No, but I don't forget to breath, I do it on purpose.

BTW, Master-Race is one of the funniest things I've seen on GAF. Thanks for that.

 

[YoungHav]

spoiler in the thread title? :-(

 

[iamblades]

Couldn't fit in the waste tube. They're not that big in real life. And yea, there's no air in that. He's suffocate pretty quick.

A sewer main for an entire prison? Yes it probably would be that large. Or at least it's plausible that it would be.

Also a sewer main that large at that time (even today, though HDPE or PVC would be more likely now) would have been vitrified clay or masonry, not cast iron. Cast iron pipes that large would be heavy as SHIT.

 

[Schattenjäger]

OMG SPOILERS!!!!!!!! How dare you!

Sculli approves of this post

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

It's on spike tv right now. Ur welcome.

 

[robotzombie]

Couldn't he have taped just the top to the wall, and then crawled in like it was just a flap? I guess then it would have looked different when the warden threw the rock but still.

Once he was inside, he could have then taped the bottom corners by making double sided tape rolls, or using gum or something...

 

[Parallacs]

Why didn't he just swallow the Ring before climbing through the hole?

Or why didn't the eagles just pick him up and fly him out of prison?

Spoiler

Escape from Alcatraz and The Great Escape are much better movies.

 

[Bombadil]

Maybe the poster paper was heavy enough that when the Warden threw a rock through it, the bottom flaps didn't rise up. Same goes for when he put his hand through it.

I am amused by how many people are concerned about this.

Why didn't he just swallow the Ring before climbing through the hole?

Or why didn't the eagles just pick him up and fly him out of prison?

Escape from Alcatraz and The Great Escape are much better movies.

The warden would have crafted another Ring. The eagles would have been shot down by the guard tower snipers before they even got to the prison.

 

[Borgnine]

It's not a prison break movie, it's a film about time, and rocks. It's geology.

 

[Osietra]

Why didn't he just swallow the Ring before climbing through the hole?

Or why didn't the eagles just pick him up and fly him out of prison?

Spoiler

Escape from Alcatraz and The Great Escape are much better movies.

Your plumpness escapes my caveats.

 

[Neuromancer]

It's not a prison break movie, it's a film about time, and rocks. It's geology.

Pressure and time

Also Red had red hair in the book, that's why he was called Red

 

[HurricaneJesus]

Anyone who has even a passing interest should definitely read the novella. Its one of Stephen King's absolute best works. Its usually part of the Different Seasons collection, which also includes the amazing story Apt Pupil, quite possibly the most horrifying (and non-supernatural) thing he's ever written.

That short story collection also contains The Body, aka Stand By Me, as well as Secret Window, Secret Garden. Along with Apt Pupil and Shawshank, it is a fine collection.

 

[y2dvd]

The movie also conveniently leaves out all the children Andy raped. But whatever, you people go ahead and celebrate him as a hero.

From the novel?

 

[Hawkian]

What did Elmo say that he couldn't have read about in the papers? A banker murdering his wife and her lover would have been big news, and someone who had been working at the club at the time of the murder would no doubt have been aware of the facts that came up at the trial. Tommy fell for a song of a jailbird, that's all. Andy was guilty.

Does it? Or does one young unreliable prisoner tell a one in a billion far-fetched story? Last we saw Andy was outside the place his wife was having sex with that dude drinking booze with a gun in his hand.

Remember, the warden doesn't know anything. He just had the kid killed just in case.

Having a differing interpretation of a movie is trolling now? Fact is that we are never shown the murders, so we do not know who did it. The only reason to think Andy was innocent, other than him being such a swell guy, is that someone says that someone else who does not actually appear in the film outside a story confessed to the crime.

Oh come on!!!!

The last we are shown of Andy on the night of the murder is incriminating for the viewer's benefit. At that point in the story we are supposed to be guessing as to whether or not he did it and explicitly do not know. But by the end of the story we do know!

 

[vas_a_morir]

Oh come on!!!!

The last we are shown of Andy on the night of the murder is incriminating for the viewer's benefit. At that point in the story we are supposed to be guessing as to whether or not he did it and explicitly do not know. But by the end of the story we do know!

If it's any consolation, I wanna believe he's innocent, and I don't know if he's guilty. But... I don't know if he's innocent, either.

 

[RustyNails]

Pressure and time

Also Red had red hair in the book, that's why he was called Red

Frank Darabont originally wanted Tom Cruise and Harrison Ford to play Andy Dufresne and Red respectively...Harrison Ford with red hair would've looked weirder than Morgan Freeman with red hair.

 

[DarkFlow]

Oh come on!!!!

The last we are shown of Andy on the night of the murder is incriminating for the viewer's benefit. At that point in the story we are supposed to be guessing as to whether or not he did it and explicitly do not know. But by the end of the story we do know!

Also Andy is shown to not be a liar. There is no point in the movie you are led to believe andy is dishonest other then the bank work he forced to do so he can have his library. So if Andy says he did not kill his wife, I'm going to believe him.

 

[ROFL]

I was supposed to read it for my film class but didn't, what were the differences?

In the book Andy Dufresne is described by Red as a "short, neat little man". Hence slightly more plausible that he could climb through that hole in the wall and the sewer pipe.
(It's a more stereotypical image of his character type, but I had no problem with the casting of Tim Robbins who I think was perfect. Tom Cruise wouldn't have worked for me)

The pipe in question was described as a main sewer, a porcelain pipe. Width not mentioned. Next to the broken hole the guards found his rock hammer, not a rock.
No mention of a grating.

There's no storm in the book to hide the sounds of him breaking the pipe. I always thought how convenient the storm was in the film - unless he was waiting for a stormy night to escape.

I also wondered how he happened to know there was a service gap back there for the pipes, and how he knew/guessed it would lead out of the prison grounds.
In the book Red says he must have had access to the prison blueprints which were kept on site, hence he knew the sewer emptied out to a stream 500 yards outside the prison.

There's no explanation of how he stuck the poster up after him, but I'm fine with Darabont's "It's just a movie" since it only occurred to me later.

Another thing that I never bought was the shiny shoes. "How many times do you look at someone's shoes" Red says in the film. Really? Not even sharp eyed prison guards who are used to seeing you in your same uniform, day after day?


Still one of my all time fave films, remains just as good each time I watch it.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Best question: how badly was Pulp Fiction robbed?

Really badly.

The only movie that should have won.

Ps. Yes, I know the Oscars are bogus.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

One of the greatest film endings of all time. Seriously.

lol, if he got moved, he'd strike a deal with whoever was in the cell... if it turned out to be a child rapist or something, Andy would just kill him on the outside.

C'mon guys.

 

[Dogfacedgod]

That short story collection also contains The Body, aka Stand By Me, as well as Secret Window, Secret Garden. Along with Apt Pupil and Shawshank, it is a fine collection.

I thought Secret Window, Secret Garden was in Four Past Midnight, wasn't it?

 

[The Technomancer]

I thought Secret Window, Secret Garden was in Four Past Midnight, wasn't it?

Yeah, Seasons has "Breathing Method"

 

[oneils]

From the novel?

LOL! Sorry, had to laugh. No, not from the novel. From borgnine's fascinating rendition.