I'm re-reading Batman: Year One and while it has its moments for the most part it isn't anything special. A large amount of the dialogue is actually clunky and awkward (Ex: "I shall become a bat" -___-). And, the art itself is pretty basic rarely tying together with the wordplay on the panel. I've found that this is also true with TDKR which also has its moments (probably more than Year One) but is also riddled with some bad dialogue in addition to the poorly aged politics which no longer hold up. So was Frank Miller always just secretly shit but somehow managed to produce a few gold gem moments within that shit so that people thought he was amazing? Or was he actually truly good back in the day?
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Was Frank Miller always secretly shit?
- Thread starter foxtrot3d
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Lionel Mandrake
Member
Miller didn't write the bat line.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This is a direct reference/quote of the character's origin in '39/'40.
The art is David Mazzuchelli, not Frank Miller. The art is fucking great, too.
Those two points aside - yes, Frank Miller has been shitty for a very, very long time. It's just that people assumed he was being satirical/parodical when it turns out he's just a fucking crank who really, really likes to draw his fetishes.
Miller didn't write the bat line.
I understand where it comes from, my point is why he felt he needed to include it in what is supposed to be his own retelling of the origin story.
Count Dookkake
Member
Oh, that's what "clunky and awkward" means. Huh.
He's making an homage. There's not much need for any other explanation.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
No. Of course not
FUBAR McDangles
Member
Year One sucks breh. Blame it on Miller or the story or the cult following it has or whatever, but I don't think it is fair to judge Miller's career based on it.
TDKR is good. His Daredevil run is fantastic.
I haven't read any of his stuff beyond those three things, but from those I would say that at least for a little while there he was a very solid writer. Maybe if I get more into his stuff I will agree with you, with those two things being his highlights in a career of shit, but for the most part he was good for a while.
Art wise, he was a mess at times and fantastic at others. Some of the stuff in TDKR is so good. Like
. I have yet to match the glee I got while reading that part from a comic book. I feel like his art turned from more traditional to more of his exaggerated/unique style as time went on. And not exactly in the most beneficial way.
TDKR is good. His Daredevil run is fantastic.
I haven't read any of his stuff beyond those three things, but from those I would say that at least for a little while there he was a very solid writer. Maybe if I get more into his stuff I will agree with you, with those two things being his highlights in a career of shit, but for the most part he was good for a while.
Art wise, he was a mess at times and fantastic at others. Some of the stuff in TDKR is so good. Like
the skyscraper part
Coffee Dog
Banned
Year One, TDKR, and his Daredevil stuff are all really good.
Was he truly good back in the day? What? His good stuff is still good now. Not quite as relevant politically, but there's a lot of great stuff in there.
Was he truly good back in the day? What? His good stuff is still good now. Not quite as relevant politically, but there's a lot of great stuff in there.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I've never been fond of Miller, but the "I shall become a bat" line is freaking iconic. Snyder used a variant in Zero Year, and it's probably one of my favorite moments from his run.
akachan ningen
Member
As a person? Yes.
MHWilliams
Member
No, he was pretty good at one point. Then he got older and more apt to put his specific political bent in projects without any subtlety.
Poodlestrike
Banned
The thing is, his political bents were always really obvious, but everyone at the time assumed they were satire
Daredevil, Sin City, Year One, DKR and Ronin and Martha Washington all solidify him as a great writer.
I think some people's hate of the racist xenophobe he's become shades their thoughts on him as a writer. Most writers lose their way after all. Look at Chris Claremont, for example. He has sucked for a long time, but no one really makes a big deal out of it like they do with Miller.
I think some people's hate of the racist xenophobe he's become shades their thoughts on him as a writer. Most writers lose their way after all. Look at Chris Claremont, for example. He has sucked for a long time, but no one really makes a big deal out of it like they do with Miller.
Yeah his good stuff is legitimately good. Time hasn't been kind to it, but to imply it was never any good or is shit...nah b.
jackissocool
Member
Yup. His Daredevil work and DKR are both phenomenal. I agree with OP that Year One isn't such hot shit that everyone says it is, and obvious his later stuff went totally off the raid, but read Born Again and Man Without Fear, then try and tell me he was never good.
Dude what's this from? I need to read it.
Nope.
All-Star Batman and Robin
The thing is, his political bents were always really obvious, but everyone at the time assumed they were satire
I don't know if 300 works as satire, though. The fun thing is that very few people saw how incredibly racist and backwards the book is. They all went bananas for Leonidas after the movie came out
Poodlestrike
Banned
You really don't.
Just... trust me on this one.
Fair enough. Still, I think it wouldn't be too hard to view it as satire if you did stumble onto the more... unsavory themes. It could be viewed as particularly unskilled satire, basically, where the attempt to skewer is largely identical to the thing it's supposedly making fun of (like mocking the KKK by putting on a minstrel show or something).
shadyspace
Banned
No.
The fan favorite All Star Batman series.
Really good stuff. Ended up getting into delay hell and unfinished. A couple seriously great issues in there.
Nope.
did a 15 year old 4channer write this?
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I started reading comics about that time choosing All-Star Batman over All-Star Superman. Big mistake and it turned me off of comics until recently when I got a unlimted account.
Nope.
Seriously that book was soooosooo bad
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Well, Robin was acting like a little bitch!
They both were good for different reasons, and injected at least some identifiable differences to a stale DC comics brand.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Except reading All-Star Batman & Robin is probably a worse punishment than aging to death over 30 seconds.
Don't listen to the haters, check it out for yourself. It's an absolutely absurd take on Batman and Robin.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Yeah, I went back recently and read all star superman. It was soo good
Edit: didn't he write some really racist thing about the iraq war?
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
His Daredevil is good and All-Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder is all time classic and probably the best Batman comics ever written. I've never read Sin City but maybe that stuff is good?
Holy Terror does read like something from /pol/.
shadyspace
Banned
It is very good.
I feel at this point you can see the film and come home with the same idea. The first one of course.
I didn't love the Sin City books as much as others did.
Yeah, Sin City is good. You should check it out.
I've never completed Ronin! Some jerk stole my freshly purchased book.
plasmawave
Banned
Nope.
Is batman a secret asshole?
shadyspace
Banned
Secret?
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