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Was Gran Turismo 4 really that bad?

endlessflood said:
You seem very angry! I'm not sure what Gran Turismo 4 did to upset you so!

In terms of the car list, there are quite a broad spread of years for those models in GT4:
Skyline: 1962 - 2003
Evo: 1994 - 2004
RX-7: 1985 - 2002
Impreza: 1994 - 2004

So it's not surprising there would be quite a few of them. They're all iconic models after all. :D

Personally I used to drive a mid 90s japanese sports coupe and that's where my love of cars started so I relish the opportunity to drive them in Gran Turismo. It's a lot cheaper and less dangerous than a proper track day, especially for overseas circuits :D
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people think i am joking, but perfect game would have shit loads of cars.

Of course GT is jpn game so they focused a lot on jpn cars, but hey lets see every possible GTI in the game. Lets see shit loads of Alfas, lets see shit loads of BMW's, not just new ones. Not to mention Renaults, Peugots,, etc

What was done with Skylines in past needs to be done with every classic European and American vehicles, such as Mustangs, GTI's, lets have 20 of each.Give me Yugo for god sakes.

Those are cars that are raced even today a lot more than Lambo's and other exotics..
 
RedRedSuit said:
^ Come on. LAN parties are nice and all, but this is not a mainstream feature. If you want to play with friends, the lack of Internet play is obviously a critical omission for all but a tiny percentage of players.
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depends what you and your friends are looking for.

there are two types of multiplayer games that people may actually prefer to play locally - figthers and sim racers. i'm in that group of people. for me online sims were a clear step back even from my first sim multiplayer - sega rally arcade cabinets and f355 on the dc.
 
spwolf said:
people think i am joking, but perfect game would have shit loads of cars.

Of course GT is jpn game so they focused a lot on jpn cars, but hey lets see every possible GTI in the game. Lets see shit loads of Alfas, lets see shit loads of BMW's, not just new ones. Not to mention Renaults, Peugots,, etc

What was done with Skylines in past needs to be done with every classic European and American vehicles, such as Mustangs, GTI's, lets have 20 of each.Give me Yugo for god sakes.

Those are cars that are raced even today a lot more than Lambo's and other exotics..
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I'd really like that myself. I also want the Elise GT1 back!

Maybe by GT6 they can work on that because the GT5 cars are accurate enough.
 
blu said:
depends what you and your friends are looking for.

there are two types of multiplayer games that people may actually prefer to play locally - figthers and sim racers. i'm in that group of people. for me online sims were a clear step back even from my first sim multiplayer - sega rally arcade cabinets and f355 on the dc.
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i actually got ps2 because of gt4 :). (and got addicted on PES).

Honestly, at that time, i didnt know anyone who played online with their PS2's... my old one didnt even have network interface, so i cant imagine this being huge issue back then. Of course, now it is unthinkable for GT5 not to get proper online support despite of the reasons you listed above.
 
blu said:
*golf clap*

and this, kids, is how people self-own themselves in public.

more than half of the cars in that 'mid 90s japanese sports coupe or sedan' list are iconic sports classics. any self-respecting racing fan would know that. other games would love to have those, they just cannot afford gt's car park. even if you remove all the cars on your list you still remain with a car park other racers can only look up to.

the ai in the game is a filler (is that news to somebody?), and yet it's not critical to the success of the game. as gt4 has been home to some of the best racing lan parties i've seen yet. so much for your 'can't play with friends'.

which is what the essence of racing games is - vs-the-clock races when on your own and uncompromising-speed races with friends. all at 60 fps. preferably with a good steering wheel.

ps: the 1080i was a nice gesture to early HDTV adopters so that they would not have to suffer sub-par scalers. it was also serving as a nice anti-aliasing mode on EDTVs that could handle 1080i signal.
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So you'd rather drive 20 skylines than 1 ferarri? really? As a "self respecting sports car fan."

Whatever you have to tell yourself to enjoy the game, but it had problems.

The guy I responded to said it looked better than this gen games in 720p. That's not true at all so if you want to ignore his comment please go ahead, but its still wrong.

LOL @ dismissing the AI as filler. Sorry If I don't like needing a bunch of consoles and tvs all in one place just to raceother people. I'm sure online multiplayer isn't an upgrade over that. Ilove how the essence of racing just happens to be defined by exactly what GT4 does, and nothing else.
 
endlessflood said:
You seem very angry! I'm not sure what Gran Turismo 4 did to upset you so!

In terms of the car list, there are quite a broad spread of years for those models in GT4:
Skyline: 1962 - 2003
Evo: 1994 - 2004
RX-7: 1985 - 2002
Impreza: 1994 - 2004

So it's not surprising there would be quite a few of them. They're all iconic models after all. :D

Personally I used to drive a mid 90s japanese sports coupe and that's where my love of cars started so I relish the opportunity to drive them in Gran Turismo. It's a lot cheaper and less dangerous than a proper track day, especially for overseas circuits :D
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5 skylines from pre 1980, 7 or 8 from pre 1990 = quite a spread of years? You really don't see a heavy balance of particular models that appeals only to the most hardcore fans of that niche (of course, since you are one, why would you have a problem with it?)

Same for all the other models Fine, YOU love driving each individual 1990s release of skylines, RX-7, Evo and Impreza, I'd rather drive (insert any other car.) I'd rather drive them in a game with much better physics modeling, clearly you wouldn't. I'd rather drive them online, against other people, clearly you wouldn't. The list goes on.

GT4 - the perfect game for people who like limiting themselves to what is in GT.

everyone else? oh, you're not a real racing fan.
 
rjcc said:
5 skylines from pre 1980, 7 or 8 from pre 1990 = quite a spread of years? You really don't see a heavy balance of particular models that appeals only to the most hardcore fans of that niche (of course, since you are one, why would you have a problem with it?)

Same for all the other models Fine, YOU love driving each individual 1990s release of skylines, RX-7, Evo and Impreza, I'd rather drive (insert any other car.) I'd rather drive them in a game with much better physics modeling, clearly you wouldn't. I'd rather drive them online, against other people, clearly you wouldn't. The list goes on.

GT4 - the perfect game for people who like limiting themselves to what is in GT.

everyone else? oh, you're not a real racing fan.
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hater1.jpg
 
Andronicus said:
http://www.chillyoislamyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/hater1.jpg[/IMG]
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*shrug*

and that's why all the attacks are personal, there's nothing about the game you can say to disagree with my statements.

I understand, you've got an emperor to keep your eyes averted from, it's a very taxing job.
 
rjcc said:
*shrug*

and that's why all the attacks are personal, there's nothing about the game you can say to disagree with my statements.

I understand, you've got an emperor to keep your eyes averted from, it's a very taxing job.
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It was on the freaking PS2 dude, move on with your life now instead of trolling a last-gen game.
 
Pole Position, when you think about it, isn't all that good. Infinite turn radius wheel? What the heck is that? I notice people have been bagging on Pole Position recently.
 
rjcc said:
5 skylines from pre 1980, 7 or 8 from pre 1990 = quite a spread of years? You really don't see a heavy balance of particular models that appeals only to the most hardcore fans of that niche (of course, since you are one, why would you have a problem with it?)

Same for all the other models Fine, YOU love driving each individual 1990s release of skylines, RX-7, Evo and Impreza, I'd rather drive (insert any other car.) I'd rather drive them in a game with much better physics modeling, clearly you wouldn't. I'd rather drive them online, against other people, clearly you wouldn't. The list goes on.

GT4 - the perfect game for people who like limiting themselves to what is in GT.

everyone else? oh, you're not a real racing fan.
Click to expand...
1962 through to 2003 is quite a spread of years. More than 40 in fact! You seem to be confusing years with cars. :D

Obviously there is a greater concentration on cars from later years. That is as true of the overall GT car list as it is of the Skylines themselves.

In terms of those iconic names, they all have pretty good claims to fame, many of them specific to my taste. But then I make no apologies for that, because I happen to be me! :D

The Skylines made quite a name for themselves here at Bathurst, at one point becoming so successful that they were banned! Evo's had a fearsome WRC reputation built on the back of one Tommi Makinen (no surprise then that the Tommi Makinen edition road-going Evo is in GT4). The RX-7 is a very interesting car on account of its rotary engine, and was very successful in Australian motorsports (winning the Australian touring car championship). The Impreza also had an impressive WRC reputation but was more infamous in these parts as the weapon of choice in ram-raids, with a reputation for being able to outrun/outmaneuver police cars on city streets. As a cheapish car with serious performance credentials it was the car that I grew up dreaming of one day owning.

I'd just like to comment on a point you made earlier about not wanting to drive the car that you take to work. If that's the case then you bought the wrong car. You can buy a car that is fun to drive in pretty much any price range; there may be some sacrifices to be made in terms of comfort (especially in traffic) or practicality but those are the kind of sacrifices that car lovers make. And if you enjoy driving your car in real life, why wouldn't you want to take it to the track? Just because I'm not Lance Armstrong and don't own a $50,000 bike doesn't mean I can't have fun cycling, and it's just as true of cars and driving. One of my favourite events in GT4 were the Yaris cup races, they were some seriously good racing :D
 
I'm pretty inexperienced at racing sims, but GT4 did feel fantastic. But goddam the AI really put me off. So bad.
Also have many people here checked out Live for Speed on the PC? I played a demo and thought it was awesome, I don't give a rat's arse if the cars aren't real models, it plays pretty damn well. Makes me wish I had a steering wheel though.
 
endlessflood said:
1962 through to 2003 is quite a spread of years. More than 40 in fact! You seem to be confusing years with cars. :D

Obviously there is a greater concentration on cars from later years. That is as true of the overall GT car list as it is of the Skylines themselves.

In terms of those iconic names, they all have pretty good claims to fame, many of them specific to my taste. But then I make no apologies for that, because I happen to be me! :D

The Skylines made quite a name for themselves here at Bathurst, at one point becoming so successful that they were banned! Evo's had a fearsome WRC reputation built on the back of one Tommi Makinen (no surprise then that the Tommi Makinen edition road-going Evo is in GT4). The RX-7 is a very interesting car on account of its rotary engine, and was very successful in Australian motorsports (winning the Australian touring car championship). The Impreza also had an impressive WRC reputation but was more infamous in these parts as the weapon of choice in ram-raids, with a reputation for being able to outrun/outmaneuver police cars on city streets. As a cheapish car with serious performance credentials it was the car that I grew up dreaming of one day owning.

I'd just like to comment on a point you made earlier about not wanting to drive the car that you take to work. If that's the case then you bought the wrong car. You can buy a car that is fun to drive in pretty much any price range; there may be some sacrifices to be made in terms of comfort (especially in traffic) or practicality but those are the kind of sacrifices that car lovers make. And if you enjoy driving your car in real life, why wouldn't you want to take it to the track? Just because I'm not Lance Armstrong and don't own a $50,000 bike doesn't mean I can't have fun cycling, and it's just as true of cars and driving. One of my favourite events in GT4 were the Yaris cup races, they were some seriously good racing :D
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I didn't say I don't want to drive the car I take to work. Please go back and read my comment again. I said that's not all I want to drive. If you're pleased by experiencing the differences in every RX-7 model, then GT4 is the game for you. But to pretend that 700+ number matters for someone besides yourself who has arbitrarily decided that that class of car is the only one for them, is silly. I'd prefer a wider range of cars, so that large number is less effective because of its bias. The fact is, it didn't add the cars above and beyond GT3 that I want to drive, so I don't care how many cars you add if so many of them are in the exact same class.
 
rjcc said:
I didn't say I don't want to drive the car I take to work. Please go back and read my comment again. I said that's not all I want to drive. If you're pleased by experiencing the differences in every RX-7 model, then GT4 is the game for you. But to pretend that 700+ number matters for someone besides yourself who has arbitrarily decided that that class of car is the only one for them, is silly. I'd prefer a wider range of cars, so that large number is less effective because of its bias. The fact is, it didn't add the cars above and beyond GT3 that I want to drive, so I don't care how many cars you add if so many of them are in the exact same class.
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My apologies, your exact words were "good list if you want to simulate driving the car you drive to work". I took that as an implication that in fact you didn't want to simulate driving the car you drive to work, in which case my point stands.

I would say that after looking at the 721 car list, the thing that stands out is that even 721 cars isn't exhaustive. To me, that's not a reason to denigrate the game that has the largest car list of all, that's a reason to praise it! I would say that on the whole Polyphony Digital do a very good job of selecting important cars though. If their selection (as Japanese developers) closely mirrors mine (as an Australian) then I have to believe that they are selecting cars beyond the borders of cultural bias and finding the ones that really matter in a deeper automotive sense. That people in the industry (such as Jeremy Clarkson, an Englishman) agree would lend that theory weight. Obviously the missed licenses (in GT4 that was Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini) are a blight but apart from that Polyphony Digital have picked all of the most important vehicles.
 
Gran Turismo = serious business.

I grew up playing GT 1-4 on PlayStation, every new version that came out I had to buy it. I loved the series. Then I bought a used Xbox and played Forza, now I must admit I like Forza a whole lot more. I tried the GT5 "Concept" or A-Spec or whatever it was called on PS3, it was neat - but for whatever reason to me it wasn't as fun as Forza. I think I'm officially a Forza guy now.

I'll probably end up picking up GT on PSP, but I don't plan on getting GT5 if and when it's ever released.
 
enjoyed it but I think we would all agree that tha A.I. was pretty much useless as per usual on Gran Turismo.

I have never played PS3 versions so only talking about PSone/PS2 games.. :)
 
Angelus said:
I briefly played GT4 when a friend bought it years back. Just remember the car count being ridiculous and the replays being gorgeous.. But are the above statements really true? Someone dig out GT4 right this minute,park their car in the middle of the track,just to see if the game really does ram into you like the statements above claim.
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I am not making it up. I don't really consider myself a hater as GT games have been some of my favorites of all time, and can't wait for PSP GT, and hope GT5 does more than have a bunch of cars and licenses and takes some big steps in AI, physics and some type of damage..

But I do get annoyed when people seem to think it can do no wrong. It was an achievement...it was a car lovers dream (look at all the cars!), and for being on a PS2 the physics and graphics were great.

But it was also disappointing to me in light of Forza, which was kind of an eye opener which actually had effort put into AI, which had online, which had damage and mods (and some sort of cartoon land palette..).

I remember doing my test then going to a friends to show him. I was getting tired of the slot car racing lines and thought....how far does this go? Well all the way....even on a wide portion with plenty of room and wide open lines easy to get around me....smack. Reposition myself back....smack....
 
I love cars so GT4 is my favorite racing game, bought a DFP just for this game. I'm glad I can use it on GT5. It was the peak of PS2 racing games. Is this some fucking delusional BS spread by Forza fans, pathetic :P
 
Even though I'm a pure petrolheaded car enthusiast, I never understood why people want so many cars? I can do with an absolute minimal amount.

-one FF slow thing
-one FF medium speed thing
-one 4wd road version rally car
-two MR of differing high power
-two RR of differing high power
-one 4wd high powered rally car
-two other stupidly over powered cars

Ten cars and I'll be happy. In Grand Prix Legends, of which I've played for around 1000 hours, I spent 995 of those in the same car.

This is why, as much as I'll always buy GT and Forza, I never seem to enjoy them as racing games, as both seem to be centre themselves around the collection of cars, instead of the racing experience itself. TTing against GAFfers immensely entertaining though, looked forward to taking you guys on again!


navii said:
this is the best review i have ever read:

http://worldofstuart.excellentconten...review-gt4.htm

(hope it wasnt posted already)
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I enjoyed that, thanks
 
endlessflood said:
My apologies, your exact words were "good list if you want to simulate driving the car you drive to work". I took that as an implication that in fact you didn't want to simulate driving the car you drive to work, in which case my point stands.

I would say that after looking at the 721 car list, the thing that stands out is that even 721 cars isn't exhaustive. To me, that's not a reason to denigrate the game that has the largest car list of all, that's a reason to praise it! I would say that on the whole Polyphony Digital do a very good job of selecting important cars though. If their selection (as Japanese developers) closely mirrors mine (as an Australian) then I have to believe that they are selecting cars beyond the borders of cultural bias and finding the ones that really matter in a deeper automotive sense. That people in the industry (such as Jeremy Clarkson, an Englishman) agree would lend that theory weight. Obviously the missed licenses (in GT4 that was Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini) are a blight but apart from that Polyphony Digital have picked all of the most important vehicles.
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the next part of the sentence was the key element. As someone who has had both one of the several Supras and one of the 70s muscle cars featured in the game as daily drivers, I appreciate them being included, but they don't make a racing game experience. A much more selective car list and a focus on improving and enhancing the gameplay would make for a better game. Instead, they focused on growing the car and track list and fell behind every other racing game of that generation in features. That's not a recipe for success.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Che = forza. Also, try reading.
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That's a flawed formula. And Che was on here bashing Sony long before he was involved with Forza.

marvelharvey said:
This is why, as much as I'll always buy GT and Forza, I never seem to enjoy them as racing games, as both seem to be centre themselves around the collection of cars, instead of the racing experience itself.
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Yeah and I hat the mandatory races to get to the types of cars or races I really want. Why would you make me race 10 races in a specific car that I hate to get to races I would actually enjoy? And then you have to waste your virtual dollars upgrading those shit cars to get past the harder sections of that level. Fuck that noise.
 
marvelharvey said:
Even though I'm a pure petrolheaded car enthusiast, I never understood why people want so many cars?
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as a petrolhead, you dont understand why would people want to drive various cars on famous tracks around the world? Interesting.

I understand that you dont care about it, but is it so far fetched that people want to drive these iconic cars? Shouldnt be that baffling at all.

I tend to try out many cars due to family business, probably 30-40 new cars per year, and I am dissapointed that i cant do more than that :D
 
rjcc said:
the next part of the sentence was the key element. As someone who has had both one of the several Supras and one of the 70s muscle cars featured in the game as daily drivers, I appreciate them being included, but they don't make a racing game experience. A much more selective car list and a focus on improving and enhancing the gameplay would make for a better game. Instead, they focused on growing the car and track list and fell behind every other racing game of that generation in features. That's not a recipe for success.
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10.68 million units.
It is without question a recipe for success. Whether it's a recipe for a good game is another question and the one I think you are asking. I think a lot of the cars are very minor tweaks and so don't represent a major time investment. Even for those cars which did require a major time investment, the 3D modelers and texture artists are different people to the physics and AI programmers so I'm not certain it's an either/or proposition, but then one must ask why AI wasn't given more work.

As I said, GT4 is still my favourite racing game to date despite AI failings by modern standards. The way I race I just don't seem to butt heads with the AI the way that a few others say they do, and the way the game unfolds seems to be more engrossing than in other racing games, for me anyway. Somehow the GT games always keep my attention, when I tend to bore of other racing games in short order.
 
rjcc said:
the next part of the sentence was the key element. As someone who has had both one of the several Supras and one of the 70s muscle cars featured in the game as daily drivers, I appreciate them being included, but they don't make a racing game experience. A much more selective car list and a focus on improving and enhancing the gameplay would make for a better game. Instead, they focused on growing the car and track list and fell behind every other racing game of that generation in features. That's not a recipe for success.
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Different games have different aims and different audiences. There's just a part of that HEY MY CAR IS IN THERE thing that makes the game compelling to many. Pretty rubbish argument you have.
 
It got pooped on for the absolutely non-existent AI. And for a reason. The races were time trials no matter what modes you took.

And it had an awful soundtrack.
 
rjcc said:
GT4 looked terrible in 1080i. Full of jaggies. It was completely useless. The 480p mode was worthwhile,

shitcock badass or no, I have working eyes.
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1080i
2mpa9mo.jpg


1080i
2jezls6.jpg


480p
r8cnrb.jpg


480p
ion4a8.jpg
 
From the look of the game on my TV, it seems like the 1080i is basically 480i upscalled. In the end, the looks better in 480p just because of the progressive scan, and probably because my TV upscaller is better than the game's. It's still amazing to have a PS2 with such graphics being displayed at 1080i! I wonder if it would have been better with a 720p mode, but then again, it must depend on the TV.
 
For what it's worth, I wouldn't trust anything Jeremy Clarkson has to say on a videogame (see his attempt with an NSX at Laguna Seca). The tracks and cars made GT4, but it couldn't hide the problems it had with it's grinding structure and bad tyre physics which finally look like they've been solved with GT5.
 
Saiyu said:
For what it's worth, I wouldn't trust anything Jeremy Clarkson has to say on a videogame (see his attempt with an NSX at Laguna Seca). The tracks and cars made GT4, but it couldn't hide the problems it had with it's grinding structure and bad tyre physics which finally look like they've been solved with GT5.
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What was wrong with that? It's a bit odd that he played with a DualShock and not a wheel (which arguably would have been easier to adapt to), but otherwise I think he managed quite nicely.
 
As a big fan of 1 and 2 I thought 3 and 4 was pretty boring. I don't know why actually. Maybe because they didn't change much. I have still hope for 5 though.
 
spwolf said:
Lets see shit loads of Alfas, lets see shit loads of BMW's, not just new ones. Not to mention Renaults, Peugots,, etc
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Know that Polyphony doesn't use scale models to create the in-game vehicles, unlike other companies which we shall not name. They use the original blueprints and actual cars. So for a company based in Japan, it's easier to get their hands on Mitsubishi and Nissan stuff, than Alfa Romeo and Renault.

But let's wait until we know the full car list.

I also do not believe GT5 will have new cars as paid DLC . It's too much work to create the cars and circuits, with the risk of them not selling enough to earn it all back. Also, in Europe, there still aren't any prepaid cards or payment options other than credit card. A considerable chunk of players don't have (access to) a credit card.

I do believe many companies will pay Polyphony to get their new cars in the game (or perhaps even their circuits) like the unveiling of the new Nissan GT-R, Subaru Impreza and Lexus IS-F in the Prologue demo, at the same time of their unveiling at the Tokyo Motor Show.
 
I would certainly not call it bad.. great graphics, awesome car selection, superb handling.

The problem was mostly with the AI I think which made the racing itself so boring and uninvolved. I never really got the impression I was racing the AI or they were racing me; they just followed their same programmed lines lap after lap at the same programmed tempo. For short races this wasn't so bad but for everything longer than 5 laps it soon turned into a snorefest for me.
 
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