Everyone's going to pretend "you're playing it wrong!" now to hand wave away all your arguments.
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Watchdogs 2 - a Modern Sandbox Masterpiece
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Everyone's going to pretend "you're playing it wrong!" now to hand wave away all your arguments.
More_Badass
Member
How is it handwaving when it's true? I've played the game for 10-15 hours now. I've used a gun once, by accident since I thought I had switched to the taser. I consistently clear areas and missions in a single go, stealthily and no shots fired.
It's not necessarily "wrong", just clearly different, because multiple people have first-hand accounts of gameplay sessions that are completely opposite to what you have experienced. So you must be playing differently somehow.
More_Badass
Member
Depends on your perspective of course
In regards to the open world, definitely. I love GTA V, but Watch Dog 2 kind of blows it out of the water in terms of NPC behaviors, interactivity with the world, and gameplay depth.
Opticability
Banned
I love games which combine puzzle solving with collecting. Kinda reminded of the Riddler Trophies which I collected every one of and I loved doing it. Except here you even get upgrades.
Damn straight. A few of my favourite moments from Watch Dogs 2 were chains of hacking and RC gadgets to solve crazy puzzles. So satisfying.
As much as it's a flawed game, Thief 2014 also had some great environmental puzzles.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
I don't think I could agree with a post anymore than this. Not go mention every single character got on my nerves. Just awful, awful characters.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
Not that I defend this game's encounter system--it blows, and people only defend it if they didn't wanna play a shooter...but that's just it. You DONT shoot in this game. Someone else said it: you don't have nearly enough health and the gunplay isn't that good for you to just have shootouts. Trying is just asking to die.
That said, stealth DOES blow. Distracting someone with a phone call in a narrow hallway, then crouch-walking right by and they somehow don't notice you? Fuck outta here with this garbage.
More_Badass
Member
Why is that bad? In Splinter Cell and Thief, you can stand in a slightly more shadowed spot and a guard can look right at you inches away and not see you. It works as a mechanic in the context of this game and keeps the stealth fast
Some Nobody
Junior Member
I'll say that I'm not a stealth dude. Only did it because the gunplay was such a chore that it literally was not an option, you were just asking to be swarmed by an aggressive AI and murdered easily. So once forced into the actual stealth I just found it goofy.
Obliterator
Member
I think Watch Dogs 1 is a much better game than 2 honestly. I loved Marcus and Dedsec and I think they did a brilliant job on designing the open world itself.
That said mechanically the game felt like a mess. Was overly cumbersome to control, and the encounter design was totally unbalanced. Watch Dogs 1 felt like a much tighter experience mechanically
Gonna have to say I was pretty disappointed, especially after so many people were saying it was better than the first. It took some steps forward but way too many back
That said mechanically the game felt like a mess. Was overly cumbersome to control, and the encounter design was totally unbalanced. Watch Dogs 1 felt like a much tighter experience mechanically
Gonna have to say I was pretty disappointed, especially after so many people were saying it was better than the first. It took some steps forward but way too many back
B_Spooky13
Member
Im actually just starting the game and the interactions are much better. Walking past a car that was parked under a tree and having leafs on the car. Had me do a double take and go back.
I'm very impressed. The characters and dialogue is so much better than WD1
I'm very impressed. The characters and dialogue is so much better than WD1
More_Badass
Member
Shouldn't it be kind of goofy and over-the-top and ridiculous?
The whole point is "manipulate the world at your fingertips" power fantasy. Sure Splinter Cell, MGS, etc, I want smart challenging AI that can outflank me and surprise me.
This? I want basic predictable AI that I can trick and mess with and that's easy to manipulate. I want stealth that's more about feeling powerful than being sneaky.
And given I've seen videos of people so engrossed in their phones that they walk into poles and whatnot, it's not that crazy
Acquiescence
Member
A sandbox masterpiece? Yikes, I don't even think it's as good as the first game (although to be fair, I rate the first one quite highly). Game has a whole host of problems as far as I'm concerned. The story is awful, the tone is as off-kilter as they get and the stealth/gunplay mechanics took a big hit. And then there's the humour and the supporting cast and the hassle work you have to go through circling buildings and looking for a way to get the collectable that's on top. That got old really quickly.
I already regret putting it at #10 in the GOTY list. It's Dragon Age: Inquisition for me all over again!
If there's one thing I'll never understand, it's how slated Watch Dogs was even though it plays like sandbox heaven.
I already regret putting it at #10 in the GOTY list. It's Dragon Age: Inquisition for me all over again!
If there's one thing I'll never understand, it's how slated Watch Dogs was even though it plays like sandbox heaven.
.
The original Watch Dogs is actually a masterpiece in the gameplay department. It's open world Splinter Cell for crying out loud! The combination of shooting, stealth, and hacking all came together to create a sublime experience.
WD2 is a mediocre GTA clone.
semiconscious
Gold Member
this, in particular, stands out for me. some people's 'complicated, but fun!' just equals other people's 'cumbersome'
...Because people were angry about downgrades and decided to take it out en masse on the first game even though it still looks incredible.
I liked the game a lot, even though little of what I liked about it had to do with traditional gameplay. I'm not sure if it's a good thing when the most fun way to play the game is to break it, using drones to skip most of the levels and encounters designed to be tackled by the protagonist. That's fun for a while, but by the end of the game I wasn't sure if I could say that I actually "played" most of its main missions when, for example, the "stealthy" way of handling Wrench's final mission involved sitting outside the mission area waiting for a bar to fill.
The open world definitely does not feel more lively than recent GTAs. Go back to one of them and you'll be shocked by how much much more motion there is everywhere and by the variety of responses its AI has to your behavior.
All the little scripted pedestrian interactions Watch_Dogs 2 populates the world with are adorable, but those scripts are so fragile you break them even by taking out your phone, so they don't maintain the illusion of having complex or varied AI for very long. You can't even park a car in this game without the entire street FREAKING OUT about your presence.
On-foot stealth in Watch_Dogs 2 is both the most challenging way to play it (if you try sneaking past guards) and by far the easiest (if you run around disabling enemy AI with a single button press) and neither of those feels good. It can be entertaining, but it's not well designed.
The open world definitely does not feel more lively than recent GTAs. Go back to one of them and you'll be shocked by how much much more motion there is everywhere and by the variety of responses its AI has to your behavior.
All the little scripted pedestrian interactions Watch_Dogs 2 populates the world with are adorable, but those scripts are so fragile you break them even by taking out your phone, so they don't maintain the illusion of having complex or varied AI for very long. You can't even park a car in this game without the entire street FREAKING OUT about your presence.
Because it feels cheap and looks bad. Shouldn't we expect modern games to do things better than ones released almost 20 years ago?
On-foot stealth in Watch_Dogs 2 is both the most challenging way to play it (if you try sneaking past guards) and by far the easiest (if you run around disabling enemy AI with a single button press) and neither of those feels good. It can be entertaining, but it's not well designed.
SuperEpicMan
Banned
I just got this over the weekend and have been really enjoying it so far (though I am not very far in), but I was wondering if there is something I am missing when I am trying to escape the police?
I just played a mission where I
, and I felt like I couldn't shake the police off of me. I accidentally blew up after driving around for about 10 minutes, and then the second time I am not too sure why they stopped.
I just played a mission where I
stole a talking car
More_Badass
Member
But it has nothing do with modern vs old.
It has everything do with one is about tactical realistic stealth and the other is about being a powerful digital tech-wizard who can control the world and people with the touch of a button
Similar to Hitman's snowballing effect, if you get spotted then everyone knows where you are and reinforcements come pretty sharpish. There's only limited non-lethal environmentals you can hack and you'll end up pretty overwhelmed if you rely on taser only.
The fact that there are only 3 non-lethal weapons out of 20 or so shows the game's focus. It's like trying to avoid hitting pedestrians when driving. You can roleplay it that way but sooner or later you'll mash someone's face in (and who didn't in that Knight Rider mission?) and it breaks the whole non-lethal narrative you have going.
More_Badass
Member
Oh, I definitely agree in that regard. It would have been daring (and much better) to only have like one actual gun, and expand your non-lethal options considerably
CoolNumber9
Member
Funny how it's either you love it or hate it on here lol. I loved it! Just got the platinum trophy the other night.
Reading through the replies, I'm kinda baffled at the "game is difficult, stealth is broken, I die a million times & checkpoints are bad" stuff but I can totally understand hating the game if that was your experience.
I think I died a handful of times in the 40-60 hours and only had one time where the checkpoint wasn't immediately where I was. I never found the game difficult, in fact I was surprised and satisfied how many times I perfect stealthed through a mission without any alerts. Coming from like Hitman (2016) the stealth is way easier here. I think it's pretty comparable to MGS stealth which is predictable, fun and just challenging enough to be satisfying. The all communications disrupter skill is the best. I could seriously just hit R1 and then sprint through a section while everyone is hit by it or if there's an alert I could use it and then move to a different spot and the alert would turn yellow as they lost track of me. Blackout + Communication disrupter gets you through a lot. The final section of the game I just used those too and ran past everyone unseen.
A lot of the missions I didn't even need to go in myself I could send my drone flying above and bomb dudes/objectives or use security cameras and objects to zzz nullify most of the enemies before I even come inside making it so I can just stroll right in. Like near the end the
The toughest part, even in the end of the game was still losing enemies in car chases. It gets 100x easier after you get boost so you can just speed away and hide, but car chase escapes are much tougher here than in GTA. The driving's also a little funky, but once I got the hang of it I enjoyed it. Sports cars & motorcycles were great. Also I loved how every vehicle had a modeled interior cockpit view.
Also I can definitely see how if people don't like puzzle games, WD2 isn't for them. I love puzzle games, so the hacking puzzles were always fun. It's definitely my favorite "hacking" mini-game.
That mission is tough because drive escaping is tough but your best bet with cars is just to boost and then find alleyways or offroad hills or get out of your car if you're allowed and hide behind a blocked fence or something. Luckily there's only a handful of parts in the entire game + sidequests that force you to escape police chases.
I think I died a handful of times in the 40-60 hours and only had one time where the checkpoint wasn't immediately where I was. I never found the game difficult, in fact I was surprised and satisfied how many times I perfect stealthed through a mission without any alerts. Coming from like Hitman (2016) the stealth is way easier here. I think it's pretty comparable to MGS stealth which is predictable, fun and just challenging enough to be satisfying. The all communications disrupter skill is the best. I could seriously just hit R1 and then sprint through a section while everyone is hit by it or if there's an alert I could use it and then move to a different spot and the alert would turn yellow as they lost track of me. Blackout + Communication disrupter gets you through a lot. The final section of the game I just used those too and ran past everyone unseen.
A lot of the missions I didn't even need to go in myself I could send my drone flying above and bomb dudes/objectives or use security cameras and objects to zzz nullify most of the enemies before I even come inside making it so I can just stroll right in. Like near the end the
Election machine destruction mission, I just sent my drone in with bombs and blew up all the machines without even going inside.
The toughest part, even in the end of the game was still losing enemies in car chases. It gets 100x easier after you get boost so you can just speed away and hide, but car chase escapes are much tougher here than in GTA. The driving's also a little funky, but once I got the hang of it I enjoyed it. Sports cars & motorcycles were great. Also I loved how every vehicle had a modeled interior cockpit view.
Also I can definitely see how if people don't like puzzle games, WD2 isn't for them. I love puzzle games, so the hacking puzzles were always fun. It's definitely my favorite "hacking" mini-game.
That mission is tough because drive escaping is tough but your best bet with cars is just to boost and then find alleyways or offroad hills or get out of your car if you're allowed and hide behind a blocked fence or something. Luckily there's only a handful of parts in the entire game + sidequests that force you to escape police chases.
dgrdsv
Member
See? I didn't even try it because this seems like a complete suspension breaker for me. So you all just running past guards hitting the call their phone option all the time? That's just sad considering that the same company gave us SC Chaos Theory.
More_Badass
Member
No, things like locking enemies in rooms, remotely moving cars to create better cover to hide behind, creating distractions with the drone and RC, setting up stun traps and then drawing enemies there to take them out unseen, using the drone as an eye in the sky to track enemy movements, etc.. The phone distraction is best when you need to cross an area that's being watched
Obliterator
Member
this, in particular, stands out for me. some people's 'complicated, but fun!' just equals other people's 'cumbersome'
I appreciate the amount of tools at your disposal for the game, but they really should have done something to streamline the control scheme. During my time with the game I found myself just either doing things I didn't want to do, or not being able to remember for a split second how I was actually supposed to be able to do something.
Its extremely rare controls in a game bother me, but WD2 felt just very much over-complicated in its control scheme. I can't imagine ever putting a controller in someone's hands who isn't that familiar with games and them being able to figure out how to do almost anything in WD2.
I loved it, so much so I'll probably pick up the story DLC -- it's one of the few games I took the time to get a platinum on. The online components weren't super involved, but they were seamless and surprisingly fun. I had no issues with the controls, enjoyed the characters, and had fun with the mission designs ... It really let you play the missions the way you wanted too, instead of forcing itself on you. That's an aspect of the design I really appreciate.
The more I think about it, the more the game feels like a mix between an adventure game (go around talking to people and solving puzzles to advance the story) and a stealth game with a bit of a GTA game to it. Maybe one of the reason why I enjoyed it so much is besides being a big stealth fan, I'm also a big PnC adventure game fan, so I like storytelling + puzzles. A decent amount of the game was just doing those two things.
Yeah, this was fun. Also the couple of times when I had to hang out with an object I was hacking in a room with locked doors and guards were alerted to my position, I'd just depower the locks to the door so no one could get in until the hack was done. Was great
Yeah, this was fun. Also the couple of times when I had to hang out with an object I was hacking in a room with locked doors and guards were alerted to my position, I'd just depower the locks to the door so no one could get in until the hack was done. Was great
I'm the opposite, the story mirrors the story of the beginning of Anonymous pretty well, minus the meeting in real life part. So there are a lot of funny references and shout outs to that. The whole concept of building up botnets and using people's computers is spot on while throwing in tributes to their attacks on the Church of Scientology which is where they got their initial recognition.
The characters are hit or miss, but it's better than every super serious game out there.
As for the sandbox, it's really fun, I still haven't finished the game. I'm about 2/3rds of the way there but I really like how missions can be tackled many ways. I haven't shot a real gun yet and I'm mostly doing it without entering compounds.
Yeah it's possible I just wasn't in the mood to get invested in another open world game at the time, I'll give it another shot one day.
Blam
Member
I couldn't agree with you less. Watch_Dogs felt empty, there was no life to anything happening in the world around me in the first game WD2, had a much better more alive world, car crashes happen. I've had cops chasing civilians. Couples fighting on the streets. The gunplay in WD1 was abysmal. The camera was also horrible.
WD2 hacking system is so much better than the WD1 system.
Modern stealth gameplay feels much more natural even in games in which you're given over-the-top superpowers.
"You're an iPhone wizard" is a poor justification for the game's mechanical shortcomings. You're given enough tools to allow you to live out the same power fantasy without a win button that damages immersion and makes the game look bad. Something went terribly wrong when this all-powerful techno wizard's strongest spell is literally texting.
A lot of people keep comparing the first game with the second, and I honestly feel gameplay wise they are completely different games in terms of the focus.
In the first game, hacking felt more like an after thought or the Farcry method of marking enemies so you could kill them. Watch Dogs 1 felt like the equivalent of a "Punisher game". Where the gun play and movement and cover were mechanically tight. However this was ultimately the only real way to approach that game. To kill everyone in sight either by sniping them with the silenced pistol or just engaging in actual firefights. It never really felt like there was a fail state in the first game asides from death, since you were ultimately just killing everything and everyone anyways.
With the sequels addition of non lethal option and the gadgets, there is less emphasis on the gun fights, and more or less a higher focus on the hacking/remote access. I feel that people who didn't like watch dogs 2 more than the first might be trying to play 2 similar to one. However I feel when you engage with the new mechanics, the game is much more enjoyable than one. I beat the game not killing anyone for the most part
and honestly, I had a better time with it.
Also the world of the second game feels much more alive and is a world I genuinely enjoyed being in, along games like AC2, RDR and AC4. Hell it might be the only modern city based open world whose world I enjoyed. For as much detail something like GTA has, the cynical design of its world and characters combined with its focus on "realistic movement and controls" are actively repulsing and obnoxious and make me not want to spend time in it than the first.
The characters in watch dogs 2 while they look like edgelords/focus tested ideas of what "youth" look like, they are really just a bunch of dorks and are genuinely likable and have actual dumb conversations like I would have with people I interact with. Watch Dogs 2's world feels more genuine and real. Even NPC interactions are super neat. Was walking down the pier and saw a guy and his girl friend just joking around about ice cream and teasing each other. It was so weird, seeing moments like this in npc's just around in the world.
So yeah. Comparing the first and second game on a gameplay perspective is kinda hard, because they focused on completely different things. Ultimately I found using the toys and playing the game nonlethaly to be a much more fun approach than executing literally everyone as Aiden in the first game, because thats just what I preferred. I can see mechanically in terms of gunplay watch dogs 1 is better, but I feel 2's characters kinda discouraged me from using it, and I always treated detection as a failstate, and ran to hide instead of opening fire like in the first game.
But on a scale based on the design and interactions of the open world. Watch Dogs 2 is easily the best city based open world I've been in. GTA can get fucked.
In the first game, hacking felt more like an after thought or the Farcry method of marking enemies so you could kill them. Watch Dogs 1 felt like the equivalent of a "Punisher game". Where the gun play and movement and cover were mechanically tight. However this was ultimately the only real way to approach that game. To kill everyone in sight either by sniping them with the silenced pistol or just engaging in actual firefights. It never really felt like there was a fail state in the first game asides from death, since you were ultimately just killing everything and everyone anyways.
With the sequels addition of non lethal option and the gadgets, there is less emphasis on the gun fights, and more or less a higher focus on the hacking/remote access. I feel that people who didn't like watch dogs 2 more than the first might be trying to play 2 similar to one. However I feel when you engage with the new mechanics, the game is much more enjoyable than one. I beat the game not killing anyone for the most part
I might have killed a bunch of people in the spidertank mission because I didn't know it had a non lethal fire, but thats the only moment
Also the world of the second game feels much more alive and is a world I genuinely enjoyed being in, along games like AC2, RDR and AC4. Hell it might be the only modern city based open world whose world I enjoyed. For as much detail something like GTA has, the cynical design of its world and characters combined with its focus on "realistic movement and controls" are actively repulsing and obnoxious and make me not want to spend time in it than the first.
The characters in watch dogs 2 while they look like edgelords/focus tested ideas of what "youth" look like, they are really just a bunch of dorks and are genuinely likable and have actual dumb conversations like I would have with people I interact with. Watch Dogs 2's world feels more genuine and real. Even NPC interactions are super neat. Was walking down the pier and saw a guy and his girl friend just joking around about ice cream and teasing each other. It was so weird, seeing moments like this in npc's just around in the world.
So yeah. Comparing the first and second game on a gameplay perspective is kinda hard, because they focused on completely different things. Ultimately I found using the toys and playing the game nonlethaly to be a much more fun approach than executing literally everyone as Aiden in the first game, because thats just what I preferred. I can see mechanically in terms of gunplay watch dogs 1 is better, but I feel 2's characters kinda discouraged me from using it, and I always treated detection as a failstate, and ran to hide instead of opening fire like in the first game.
But on a scale based on the design and interactions of the open world. Watch Dogs 2 is easily the best city based open world I've been in. GTA can get fucked.
To me that novelty didn't really run out. It felt kinda fascinating completing a mission without physically setting foot into the place.
Only thing i can say i liked was the graphics and the city. It was a lot more interesting to explore and a lot more colourful. Thought the character (and supporting characters) were annoying cliches, but at least they weren't as devoid of personaloty as aiden. The driving somehow felt worse than the first game. The game was so geared towards steath they for some reason forgot to make the gunplay fun to use at all. Hacking is still too basic, and now you can hack an even more rediculous amount of things by just pressing a button...such depth! Mission structure were too repetative too due to the focus on stealth and the story didn't grab me much.
Was it better than the first? Only just. Was it a good game? Not in my experience.
I think i can safely say the series isn't my bag and i'll be avoiding the third.
Was it better than the first? Only just. Was it a good game? Not in my experience.
I think i can safely say the series isn't my bag and i'll be avoiding the third.
OttoSporteman
Member
I really liked WD 2 but I still prefer the first installment.
The main point of immersion break for me is that once any enemy detects you, even if you take him down at the spot, ALL enemies instantly know your position.
I mean, even a dog has telepathic powers to broadcast your position to 20+ agents. If this mechanics were applied to cameras and sensors detection, it'd be fine. The way it is, it basically sucks.
Besides that, the gameplay was good, an improvement over WD1, but the gunplay is kinda worse, aiming is not "in your hands" l, if that makes any sense. The contradictory "we want to take down the big company and stick it to the man" but at the same time stealing and killing also breaks it for me.
Aiden Pearce, bless his heart, could be seen as a psychopath, and there's nothing wrong with that on my book
The main point of immersion break for me is that once any enemy detects you, even if you take him down at the spot, ALL enemies instantly know your position.
I mean, even a dog has telepathic powers to broadcast your position to 20+ agents. If this mechanics were applied to cameras and sensors detection, it'd be fine. The way it is, it basically sucks.
Besides that, the gameplay was good, an improvement over WD1, but the gunplay is kinda worse, aiming is not "in your hands" l, if that makes any sense. The contradictory "we want to take down the big company and stick it to the man" but at the same time stealing and killing also breaks it for me.
Aiden Pearce, bless his heart, could be seen as a psychopath, and there's nothing wrong with that on my book
Net_Wrecker
Member
This hyperbole over the controls is amusing tbh. Like sure they're a little worse, but my God they aren't that bad. Where are you people when Rockstar releases a new game and I'm one of maybe 3 people in 10 pages complaining about the controls. Open world games have historically not felt good. W_D2 isn't super punchy and streamlined like the first, but it's still very responsive.
It does seem quite antithetical in that regard, to have more actual weapons than non-lethal options like the taser. I think I'm about halfway through, possibly further (just got past the
Burning Man homage
Still feel like a boss though.
Nah, sure I'd use the drone to scout out ahead, get an aerial view and design a path I wanna take (drone is a godsend for this, in WD1 having to use cameras to look around, mark enemies and make a path was really tedious for me).
But then for a lot of mission I'd take that path, hide behind stuff and distract guards and then run.
Also the narrative disonance stuff never bothered me here so in my mind melee takedowns were just your normal MGS/Hitman non-lethal choke (which I use a lot in those games). I almost never used a gun, but I'd often distract a guard and then melee knockout them, and move to the next. The only times I wouldn't knock out a guard is if they were in the line of view of another guard and then I'd distract and run. Or if I I didn't need to knock them out and could just run right past.
Like one cool (and realistic) distraction I found was to blow up something on the opposite side to alert the guards and send them all running away from where I needed to go. Would usually buy me enough time to slip by and install the usb stick or whatever I needed and then get out without being seen.