Jazzy Network
Member
2 months ago I'd probably defend Riot here, but today I lol'ed (see what I did thar?).
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We have no idea what Riot is doing
- Thread starter Archie
- Start date
Hmm. It'd be a terrible move on Riot's part if they actually tried to present S3 teams from having other teams in DOTA2. CLG Prime.LoL has their own DOTA2 team... I'm surprised Hotshot just didn't yell out "bullshit!" to Riot Games and storm out of the room. Its a funny image to me anyway. =p
I love LoL and especially love watching my favorite teams in that game duke it out. Last year me and my buddy noted that while we loved watching LoL tournaments there weren't so many. One year later and we are literally exhausted because we try to catch each tournament, whether big or small... its kinda intense man. Lawl. Sure TSM was clearly the big team since CLG and Dignitas went to Korea for compete in OGN, but was glad that some of the smaller teams... Curse, Dynamic, Legion, Orbit, Goose and etc were making a splash.
LoL has a long way to go to be more awesome than it is and it should be probably take some cues from DOTA2. As much as I appreciate those dudes very much who make LoL replay, it'd be nice if Riot handed out replays on the client. I can only imagine the undertaking that is to get replays going... but still. I'm impatient. =p
DOTA2, from the little I've played of it is pretty great in my opinion just don't see myself playing it all that much. Its brutal for me. And while it really is fantastic I'm perfectly fine playing LoL until one day its a sinking ship! But one MOBA is more than enough for me.
Riot can't screw up Season 3 though. There's tons of pressure on the teams who are competing in Season 3 but doubly so on Riot. Its a great experiment they got going for that but if they eff up... people might go to DOTA2 or to another MOBA or to other genres period. Good luck to them. XD
I love LoL and especially love watching my favorite teams in that game duke it out. Last year me and my buddy noted that while we loved watching LoL tournaments there weren't so many. One year later and we are literally exhausted because we try to catch each tournament, whether big or small... its kinda intense man. Lawl. Sure TSM was clearly the big team since CLG and Dignitas went to Korea for compete in OGN, but was glad that some of the smaller teams... Curse, Dynamic, Legion, Orbit, Goose and etc were making a splash.
LoL has a long way to go to be more awesome than it is and it should be probably take some cues from DOTA2. As much as I appreciate those dudes very much who make LoL replay, it'd be nice if Riot handed out replays on the client. I can only imagine the undertaking that is to get replays going... but still. I'm impatient. =p
DOTA2, from the little I've played of it is pretty great in my opinion just don't see myself playing it all that much. Its brutal for me. And while it really is fantastic I'm perfectly fine playing LoL until one day its a sinking ship! But one MOBA is more than enough for me.
Riot can't screw up Season 3 though. There's tons of pressure on the teams who are competing in Season 3 but doubly so on Riot. Its a great experiment they got going for that but if they eff up... people might go to DOTA2 or to another MOBA or to other genres period. Good luck to them. XD
Gaben I pulling the strings behind this story.
Honestly? I'd say there's probably more who'd be happier for the exclusive. Same for this LoL situation. Same for all sorts of situations. Regardless of it being good, bad, whatever. Just the way many people think.
Why would you think that? Sure, a lot of DotA players (me included) don't think LoL is very good competitively or give much of a damn what happens in the game, but I'll sure as hell defend your right to play and watch LoL without restrictions.
E-sports needs to grow together and LoL and DotA can help each other. I really only want DotA to dominate right now because Valve does awesome things while Riot does stupid shit like this. Otherwise there should be space for both games.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
So, I just noticed this choice quote from Slasher on TL page that seems weird given what he said afterwards:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366477¤tpage=23#443
And then I saw this quote from the transcript of the LO3 conversation, referenced here:
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6845521&postcount=127
Someone has to be lying here, because the timelines don't match up at all.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366477¤tpage=23#443
And then I saw this quote from the transcript of the LO3 conversation, referenced here:
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6845521&postcount=127
Someone has to be lying here, because the timelines don't match up at all.
Funny, I had a very different viewpoint of "Valve's awesome things" when I was at S2. Two letters: C and D.
This is the most confusing drama ever. I don't know WTF is going on anymore. I don't think anyone would lie about this though.
I thought there was no actual C&D from Valve on that, there was just some weird reason HoN had to stop having more Dota heroes ported.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
If no one's lying, then it's a huge misunderstanding that got really out of control. I can't imagine any other scenario that makes sense.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
wat
Yep. There's really no incentive for these head guys of e-sports to lie on purpose I think.
wat?
Legato.Reborn-
Member
wat?!
les papillons sexuels
Banned
here's what I'm thinking...
Riot offered certain teams a salary bonus if they stayed with league of legends exclusively. Word got out, people made a big deal, and this thread was made.
Riot offered certain teams a salary bonus if they stayed with league of legends exclusively. Word got out, people made a big deal, and this thread was made.
Let me recap for those who are confused and those who like to knee jerk with "this why LoL sucks" - really? haha.
Slasher posts an article with this "rumour" - that Riot has teams signing exclusivity agreements, citing that his source is Dignitas (ODEE is the director of).
SirScoots appears on LO3 and claims the same thing also saying that other guys like CoL and Dignitas have been in talks with Riot for weeks over this stuff.
Odee posts on twitter, denying any association with slasher and that he only heard of this rumour yesterday, when all this drama started.
Since Slasher and SirScoot only mention Odee inorder to seem impartial since he is the only League guy and Odee is the only one you can prove actually has talks with Riot, everything seems very weak now.
Oh slasher, your move.
Slasher posts an article with this "rumour" - that Riot has teams signing exclusivity agreements, citing that his source is Dignitas (ODEE is the director of).
SirScoots appears on LO3 and claims the same thing also saying that other guys like CoL and Dignitas have been in talks with Riot for weeks over this stuff.
Odee posts on twitter, denying any association with slasher and that he only heard of this rumour yesterday, when all this drama started.
Since Slasher and SirScoot only mention Odee inorder to seem impartial since he is the only League guy and Odee is the only one you can prove actually has talks with Riot, everything seems very weak now.
Oh slasher, your move.
Glad we have upstanding posters like you here to elevate the level of discourse.
You're cool.
What did they send a CD to S2 over, and when.
Lord Phol
Member
No, silly perhaps, but I don't argue for 11 pages based on rumours.
GAF has a whole thread based on the speculation of the Wii U, would you also consider that silly?
amidoingitrite?
No, this is doing it right.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
Big multigame teams that don't have a LoL team are quite likely more impartial and reliable on this than teams that do. They have neither an incentive to lie nor an incentive to maintain good relationship with Riot. It's plausible that Riot didn't attempt to make this a wider policy and rather only had some talks with a few teams. If the claims were categorically false, I'm certain Riot would be more forcibly denying them and would have more teams issuing statements. Instead, they are only calling it a "big miscommunication".
e: https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/243853361047302144 so many sources, but I guess it's just a rumour/miscommunication
Lord Phol
Member
Perhaps, I haven't ventured into that thread yet and I have no intention of doing so.
But if the posts are as dumb as some of the ones in this thread, yes, yes I would consider it silly.
It's the same thing when you see people arguing in the actual games (I do play both), silly silly people who can't just enjoy themselves.
To keep it a bit on topic though, if the rumours are proven right and Riot has been sneaking around doing filthy buissness, I guess my money won't be spent on RP anytime soon.
wonderdung
Member
It's pretty obvious at this point that there's some level of miscommunication going on. I think Scoots is the only one to have claimed to not hear it second-hand, the coL guy said he heard it from someone else and Slasher's source is publicly telling him that he's not right at all.
It's a big game of e-sports telephone. Believe who you want I guess, it's probably never going to get cleared up.
Given recent history I'm inclined to believe that someone at Riot told Scoots something he misunderstood and he told every single person he knew about it. Was like two weeks ago he was spreading rumors about prize splitting at MLG with no actual knowledge of the situation. (For what it's worth Riot handled that situation poorly too.)
It's possible that it's a Riot-lead conspiracy involving blackmailing Dig to try to get them to lie for Riot but to be totally honest it's a lot easier to believe that it's a rumor started by one guy, probably without malicious intent, that just exploded. It's just way easier for that to happen than for a company to orchestrate some cover up.
We weren't speculating whether Riot were bad boys or not were they lol.
This seems to make the most sense.
Here's a slasher related update in response to ODEE's tweet:
Odee said:
The problem with this is that CLG, M5, Navi, MTW, Fnatic and AL all have LoL and DotA2 teams and were not stopped or removed by Riot which makes the 2nd bolded sound like rich creamy bullshit by Slasher. It sounds like slasher told a bunch of people and said he had sources, and those people told others while pretending they heard it first or second hand while they in actually heard it third hand.Slasher said:
I think the conclusion is that this in the end, this really is just an uncollaborated rumour.
Riot doesnt actually control reddit....
And not only that, its illogical that the policy was put into place for some teams only. Take occams razor - its much simpler to say either that they had the policy in place and removed it (doubtful since many teams had LoL and DotA teams) or that it was just a rumour spread by one person.
wonderdung: That last paragraph is a hilarious misrepresentation/strawman. Given Riot's handling of this and refusal to outright deny anything other than "we won't be doing this" it's a lot easier to believe they did attempt to do something like this, but the exact details and scope is a mystery at this point. I wonder why Riot deleted a bunch of reddit comments outright denying this if there is no truth to it
And please, the whole point is that Riot _attempted_ to put a policy like this in place (for some teams only?) not that they actually succeeded so that "problem" isn't a problem at all.
And please, the whole point is that Riot _attempted_ to put a policy like this in place (for some teams only?) not that they actually succeeded so that "problem" isn't a problem at all.
This is not the right order of events btw, since it went Incontrol to SirScoots to Slasher in that order as far as I know. People can just read the Teamliquid or Reddit threads if they want to know anyways.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to represent the order of the events, merely the important elements.
An accurate timeline of what happens is:http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/zh6c1/who_is_telling_the_truth_now/c64nizc
And for what it's worth, Slasher is being absolutely skewered on redditDota2
I think at this point the title needs to be changed to "dunno lol looks like nothing"
They deleted (some of) own comments. No, your position is illogical and that is a horrendous misuse of occam's razor. Again, no one is even saying they had a policy in place, just that they wanted to push something like that through and failed, possibly very early on when they had only approached some teams.
e: this is my last reply on this subject unless new information arises as I'm quite certain this discussion won't go anywhere even if I went more in depth
e2:
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
Today I wrote:
Alledgedly, the rule was that organizations could not have a League of Legends team participating in the upcoming pro circuit for Season 3 without sacraficing puppies. Was the rule yet made public? Obviously not. Had all organizations been made fully aware of the intent to enforce this rule? Probably not. Had some organizations been in talks with Riot Games and been informed of these intentions? Very likely. Did Riot Games back off from the rule, before taken into effect, seeing the community's response? Most definitely.
EG should stop wasting time, and just say "WE DON"T KNOW SORRY".
You seem to be rather personally invested in this, as if they were attacking you or a game you really like and not a corporation. Unlike you, EG, CoL and whoever else is the source has no incentive to make stuff up. Perhaps you should stop wasting your time.
For what it's worth, half the posts aren't even on the subject matter at hand and were some really nice discussion. The other half are over the course of multiple updates to this whole thing.
It's hard to take a lot of posts seriously as there's a lot of shit throwing everywhere ("Of course Riot would do this" kinds of comments, are they really necessary?). Did Riot do this? Eh, I don't know. Would I blame them for thinking of it? Not really. I'd hate for it to actually happen because it's overall something bad for the scene, however, which is something I do believe nearly everyone who cares can agree on.
I don't care at all whether Riot tried to do this or not, nor do I care about LoL, Dota 2, my only motivation here is arguing against people who clearly aren't trying to approach the topic rationally, but let their personal biases dictate what they believe rather than assessing the known facts and deeming what is most likely based on them. A fruitless endeavour, certainly.
The problem is that nobody is willing to come out with any hard evidence. Rileno is the only person from CoL collaborating on this and he's just a writer, so its more second hand (or even third hand) information. Also, Slasher states Odee as his source and SirScoots confirms that Odee knows and then later Slasher says he made a complete mistake about Odee as one of the teams and supposes that SirScoots only mentioned Odee because he told him.
It all sounds really dumb and when accusations are heavy, so should the evidence. I agree that such anti-competitive behaviour is terrible but re: the topic, nothing has been proven. The eg.maelk quote only offers one thing to come of all this and that it's "Regardless of true or not, I'm actually pleased that the communities can come together about one thing, the only thing that actually matters: That the rule - if it ever did exist - would be ridiculously stupid."
It all sounds really dumb and when accusations are heavy, so should the evidence. I agree that such anti-competitive behaviour is terrible but re: the topic, nothing has been proven. The eg.maelk quote only offers one thing to come of all this and that it's "Regardless of true or not, I'm actually pleased that the communities can come together about one thing, the only thing that actually matters: That the rule - if it ever did exist - would be ridiculously stupid."
The cliff notes is that nobody knows. You can read this and decide for yourself: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/zh6c1/who_is_telling_the_truth_now/c64nizc
Nobody is willing to come up with hard evidence, and everybody is acting damn shady. At this point its becoming a whole game of he said she said. Rest assured though that if the policy was to do such, Riot has definitely been told to back the fuck down.
Nobody is willing to come up with hard evidence, and everybody is acting damn shady. At this point its becoming a whole game of he said she said. Rest assured though that if the policy was to do such, Riot has definitely been told to back the fuck down.
At this point, we really don't have anything concrete. There's some "confirmed sources" but then we get into a tangled mess of who those sources are (if they even exist). At the rate this is blowing up, I have no idea if we'll ever get a resolution since there will always be an angle ("Of course Riot would say that" or "DotA2 players have it out for LoL" or whatever).
Pretty much. Something this big needs some real proof, not "trust me, I got a guy." I'm all for being against the actual policy in question because it's ultimately a toxic stance for the scene as a whole in the long term. I just don't agree with the "I hate Riot so this must be true" or "DotA2 fans out for blood, ffs trolling" approaches for this. Let's get something real out there.
Yup.
Edit: I've got money on the original thing being "Any of your members actively participating in Season 3's Championship Series cannot also competitively play DotA2" somehow being turned into "You can't have both teams at all." Though, there being literally nobody (right?) that plays both like that makes this a meaningless policy to begin with.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
Huh. I just saw that Scoots said a couple of weeks ago that they could have a LoL team if they wanted one but didn't want one.
https://twitter.com/SirScoots/status/240833204670562306
But then they wanted one and found this out when talking with Riot. Weird.
And more by Scoots, just a little bit ago. Seems like you either believe him or you believe Odee/Riot
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366477¤tpage=30#600
Who the hell knows, really?
https://twitter.com/SirScoots/status/240833204670562306
But then they wanted one and found this out when talking with Riot. Weird.
And more by Scoots, just a little bit ago. Seems like you either believe him or you believe Odee/Riot
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366477¤tpage=30#600
Who the hell knows, really?
1) Dude on djwheat stream says he has "sources" that Riot will be disallowing LoL season 3 sponsors from having other MOBA teams.
2) Riot member posts on forum that this is absolutely not true.
3) Col and EG come out and complain that this was indeed talked about. One guy also claims to have heard about this from Dignitas.
4) LoL team sponsors deny this (Dignitas). Riot once more denies this.
5) Original dude reaffirms his stance: Riot was planning to restrict sponsors.
At least that's how I understood it. Seems like it's most likely something that mhad been discussed by Riot, but scrapped (or perhaps never existed at all). We don't know. But if it was ever discussed, the universal condemnation (aside from a select few .1% lolololol "business as usual" peeps) should hopefully keep it down in the dumpster.
scytheavatar
Member
What exactly is SirScoot and Slasher trying to do anyway? If they had won the battle and convince Riot to back off you'll think they'll be happy to tell everyone to move along and ignore the backroom drama, but ATM it sounds like they are determined to paint Riot as the bad guys and are trying to get them punished for something they at worst have though of doing but never confirmed. This feels more and more like a smear campaign to me.
ftfy
So do people have a problem of something being offered for someones exclusivity when being on a team or specific game?
We do have something concrete. Multiple sources have confirmed (some anonymous, some not) that something like this was being planned and there is a very high profile figure pretty much staking his reputation on this. Riot still hasn't flat out denied anything other that they aren't going to have this policy in place. What would exactly be concrete?
Totalbiscuit says the plan was to pay teams "hefty sum" every year to play LoL and no other Moba games. It's laughable to suggest that there is nothing concrete behind this.
Totalbiscuit says the plan was to pay teams "hefty sum" every year to play LoL and no other Moba games. It's laughable to suggest that there is nothing concrete behind this.
They are determined to save their reputation and get the truth out (if they truly believe what they are saying is the truth). If you truly believe you are correct and right about something, would you sit back and let people call you a liar and a hater? Most of us aren't sacrificial lambs for the "greater good." I don't think it's about "punishment" or "slander" at all. Dude's just got conviction.
1) Riot and LoL sponsor say this whole thing isn't true.
2) Multiple sources say it is.
You decide who is more trustworthy.
Cliff Notes version:
1) Someone says Riot is forcing exclusivity.
2) Shitstorm.
3) Riot says they're not doing that.
4) Sigh of relief.
5) SirScoot/Slasher say Riot is lying. They tried it and failed. Cite Dignitas/Odee as the source.
6) Shitstorm.
7) Dignitas says he never told Slasher shit.
8) Slasher says oops!
9) Community says WTFBBQ?!?!
Think that's all of it.