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WETA Digital at risk of losing the AVATAR sequels

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SCULLIBUNDO

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http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/oct/25/new-zealand-film-industry-avatar-risk

New Zealand's film industry looks set to lose out on a billion-dollar bonanza from James Cameron's Avatar sequels because other countries are offering greater tax incentives to Hollywood studios.

Star Sam Worthington revealed this week that the long-awaited films are due to begin shooting in October 2014. It had been expected that Cameron would return to New Zealand, where special effects company Weta Digital are based. But public-owned broadcaster TVNZ has revealed Twentieth Century Fox may be considering other options for cost reasons.

New Zealand currently offers a 15 per cent tax rebate to foreign studios, but the UK and Australia are now offering 25 per cent for major productions. The disparity has reportedly fuelled a downturn for the country's film industry, with thousands out of work, and the loss of Avatar could prove crippling.

New Zealand economic development minister Steven Joyce told TVNZ's ONE News the nation was keen to hold on to the high-profile sequels. "Obviously New Zealand's very keen to do it because there's a strong association with James Cameron, also a strong association with Weta Digital," he said. "So yes, we're keen to. But also, it can't be done at any price.

"There's still, I think, discussions going on, and there's no doubt about that," Joyce added. "Film Commission and Film New Zealand are working with the producers and the director and are keeping me informed as to how things are progressing."

"The accountants are looking at just the bottom line and going, 'Well, we'll go to the place that gives us the most back, that gives us the best value.' So we're not competitive any more at that level," Graham Dunster of Auckland Actors told ONE News. "The last major production here was Spartacus which finished in October last year. So there's basically been nothing since then."
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If they shoot in Australia, does this mean Sam Worthington will keep his aussie accent for the whole film, or just parts of it like in the original Avatar?
 
Given how lightweight the film and FX industry is in terms of resource consumption, there is a lot of scope for the government to increase incentives significantly and still create a net positive impact of the country via employment taxes and residual expenditures.

Unfortunately, large incentives like this doesn't always play well with the general populace, mostly because the public doesn't consider the benefit, only the cost. Indeed, I'm pretty sure there was a strong vocal opposition to subsidies given to the first Avatar film production.

Of course, this situation is exactly why I've been involved with lobbying the NZ government to support the games industry here which is a lot more self sustaining given the growing (and successful) creation and distribution of original IP happening here. Leverages a lot of the same talents and skill as film, but (these days) is less prone to being undermined by foreign competition. Needless to say, progress is slow, and we remain in films shadow.
 
No one else is capable.

ILM did some of the best shots in A1, but only because they were strictly adhering to Weta's style. I just don't think they can pull off the human element of the Na'Vi faces. They arguably have the best pipeline and tools, but I think the first movie was a success because people at Weta know facial muscles like no other.
 
nomis said:
No one else is capable.

ILM did some of the best shots in A1, but only because they were strictly adhering to Weta's style. I just don't think they can pull off the human element of the Na'Vi faces. They arguably have the best pipeline and tools, but I think the first movie was a success because people at Weta know facial muscles like no other.
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I honestly don't think there's as a big a gap between the two effects houses in perf-cap these days as people like to think. But the pipeline between Weta Workshop and Weta Digital would certainly be easier. They constructed, tested and scanned a bunch of props into the virtual pipeline on the first film.

I still think ILM destroy Weta when it comes to vehicles and metallic constructions etc. But yeah, the CG perf-cap characters would be an interesting test these days.

Here's hoping they don't move it to Australia for the sole reason that guys like Animal Logic and Fuel Fx aren't anywhere near the same level as guys like Weta and ILM.
 
So will New Zealand rewrite their laws to keep Cameron in the country, or is that special treatment reserved for Peter Jackson?
 
Scullibundo said:
I honestly don't think there's as a big a gap between the two effects houses in perf-cap these days as people like to think. But the pipeline between Weta Workshop and Weta Digital would certainly be easier. They constructed, tested and scanned a bunch of props into the virtual pipeline on the first film.

I still think ILM destroy Weta when it comes to vehicles and metallic constructions etc. But yeah, the CG perf-cap characters would be an interesting test these days.

Here's hoping they don't move it to Australia for the sole reason that guys like Animal Logic and Fuel Fx aren't anywhere near the same level as guys like Weta and ILM.
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Cameron should hire Quantic Dream
 
I'll be starting work at ILM soon... now that I've read this news, I'm kind of secretly hoping ILM could get Avatar 2 to work on :P
 
I recently listened to the audio commentary on the Aliens blu-ray and the thing that struck me hardest was the crews disdain (or hatred, even) for British work crews. Would Cameron really want to go back to Britain? Has he been back to Britain?

Off topic: But I also found that commentary interesting given the relationship between Scott and his American crew on Blade Runner.
 
Dragonzord said:
Did you take Xia's jerb?
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I'll be starting in the Vancouver studio soon as an artist, haha. I do believe tax incentive probably played a role in the studio opening up here in Vancouver. Seems like a lot of work are coming this way. Xia should come join the studio here in Vancouver :)
 
This shit really needs to stop. As someone working in this industry it crushes me everytime I see studio execs choosing less technically capable studios just to cut corners.
 
If they do go with someone else it's really going to be interesting to see how much of a difference there may be between films on the effects. The first was crazy good.
 
Hope the government doesn't cave. This kind of racket is why the rich are getting richer. I'm not really up with it, but this seems the kind of thing you'd think the WTO should be sorting out (although the odds of someone bringing a case seems slim).

Also, as a New Zealand taxpayer, if it does get filmed here does that mean it's cool for me to pirate it? I have already paid for it after all.
 
I think Weta effects are so inconsistent. I didnt see avatar but in King Kong, the hobbit , and lotr there is such a large gap in quality between the good and the bad cgi.
 
Polari said:
Hope the government doesn't cave. This kind of racket is why the rich are getting richer. I'm not really up with it, but this seems the kind of thing you'd think the WTO should be sorting out (although the odds of someone bringing a case seems slim).
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Well, seeing how expensive Avatar was it's save to say that even for a big studio like Fox the new Avatar trilogy will be a huge risk. So saving on taxes is certainly something they will consider.
 
There's a 90% chance it will all get worked out and shoot in NZ.

Weta have all the assets, Cameron has a great working relationship with the Weta team and the guy lives in fucking New Zealand now. And Fox is basically in the business of making James Cameron happy these days.
 
sirap said:
This shit really needs to stop. As someone working in this industry it crushes me everytime I see studio execs choosing less technically capable studios just to cut corners.
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That depends who they choose, surely? Weta are fantastic, but so are MPC, DNeg etc. Framestore worked on the original Avatar, too, though obviously not to the same extent as Weta.

Edit: I'd also point out that you don't need a formula 1 car for every journey, you know? "Cutting corners" is how films (and all forms of media) get made, just like every other industry.
 
CyclopsRock said:
That depends who they choose, surely? Weta are fantastic, but so are MPC, DNeg etc. Framestore worked on the original Avatar, too, though obviously not to the same extent as Weta.

Edit: I'd also point out that you don't need a formula 1 car for every journey, you know? "Cutting corners" is how films (and all forms of media) get made, just like every other industry.
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Sure, but at the same time each studio has their own strengths. For Avatar, you can't beat Weta when it comes to the Na'vi. To clarifiy, it's like asking Weta to do Transformers. Not that they couldn't pull it off, but the experts in shading are there in ILM.
 
Yes, let's take the sequel to a movie that was only popular because of its special effects off the hands of the special effects team that know what they're doing. That will end brilliantly.
 
It's kind of ironic since Cameron went to the studios and said we can shoot the movie(AVATAR 1) in New Zealand and get all of these tax breaks, meanwhile, American CGI studios were dying left and right last year, and now WETA stands to have the same thing happen to them.

Although I don't think this is like the project that WETA needs to stay afloat though. They seem pretty set with those Hobbit movies.
 
nomis said:
No one else is capable.

ILM did some of the best shots in A1, but only because they were strictly adhering to Weta's style. I just don't think they can pull off the human element of the Na'Vi faces. They arguably have the best pipeline and tools, but I think the first movie was a success because people at Weta know facial muscles like no other.
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What? Davy Jones used older tech than Avatar and he still looked amazing.

Plenty of threads on GAF where people claim that only part of Davy Jones is CGI when I tried to explain to them that ALL of Davy Jones is CGI.
 
Hermii said:
I think Weta effects are so inconsistent. I didnt see avatar but in King Kong, the hobbit , and lotr there is such a large gap in quality between the good and the bad cgi.
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WETA really dropped the ball, then kicked it away, with The Lovely Bones.
 
Didn't exactly the same thing start happening with the Hobbit? Vague murmurings about moving somewhere else followed by NZ giving them better rates so they'd stay?
 
Honestly, its sick that this is happening. This is ruining shit for everyone.
However I do think that Weta will still get it, Cameron will get what he wants, and he wants Weta.
 
I think people saying Weta is better than ILM in X but ILM is better in Y are being silly.

They are the worlwide top tier cgi studios. They both can do anything they are hired to. Fantastic cities, armies, detailed fictional characters, humans, etc. They both have top tier artists.
 
Bit-Bit said:
What? Davy Jones used older tech than Avatar and he still looked amazing.

Plenty of threads on GAF where people claim that only part of Davy Jones is CGI when I tried to explain to them that ALL of Davy Jones is CGI.
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I completely agree. He also had octopus shaders for his skin.

I'm simply saying that I think if ILM had to do all of the facial work that went into Avatar 1, from modeling to animation to subsurface scatting light rays through Neytiri's left cheek as she speaks a line, it would not have come out as believable as the work Weta did.

On the other hand I agree with Sculli about ILM's penchant and talent for metallic constructions. Must be all the R&D dollars that went into the bayformers films.
 
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