sixthsubset
Banned
GhaleonEB said:
it's a feature set. yeah, it's wonderful, but the game isn't really fun underneath all that, and tacking it on the end isn't going to change that. it really doesn't matter that much.
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what are all the 10's edge has ever given ?
- Thread starter miketabs02
- Start date
it's a feature set. yeah, it's wonderful, but the game isn't really fun underneath all that, and tacking it on the end isn't going to change that. it really doesn't matter that much.
buckfutter
Member
There is no distinction to be drawn between a game's mechanics and its story, as the story provides the context for the mechanics and the mechanics/interactions are augmented by the effect of the story on the player. The overall experience provided determines the score. Don't sift through games to find what you like and dislike and provide a score for each identified component, score based on what you took away from the game in totality. If that means you give a game like Bioshock a 0, even though you liked the story, because moment-to-moment mechanics mean everything to you or because you consider multiplayer a necessity - so be it. But don't say a game is "worth an 8 for everything besides the gameplay"; the gameplay is that totality, that feeling it provides to you throughout, the sum of all parts.Sir Fragula said:
But, who's going to deny that the gameplay underneath the feature set is fun? The only 'complaint' anyone seems to have is that the gameplay isn't radically different from Halo 2. So, since the gameplay itself is fun, isn't it great to have amazing features that push community interaction, on consoles at least, so far ahead?sixthsubset said:
All this time you thought you enjoyed the gameplay of Halo 3, but you really just enjoy the feature set. You don't get pumped playing the game, you get it looking at the back of the box and the menu screen, seeing all the cool features, regardless of the horrible gameplay beneath.GhaleonEB said:
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
the disgruntled gamer said:
Same must have happened to me.
Shit.
drohne said:
In the "LTTP: Cortana level in Halo 3" thread there's a pretty lenghty discussion about those levels. Most (but not all) really dislike mission 8, and most (but not all) enjoy mission 9. Oddly, I fall into the minority there; Cortana is not well designed but I find it to be fun despite the flaws, but I really dislike the final mission.
In their review of the game, Edge called out Cortana as being a weak mission, but felt the rest of the game (both campaign and MP) overwhelmed the flaw. They also heavily criticized the story, which is the other most common complaint about Halo 3 (and one I share).
But then, they gave Halo 1 a 10, despite the existance of The Library. So this is actually consistant with their past scoring.
The travesty in giving Halo 3 10/10s lies in how it invalidates so much criticism that is leveled at other games, past, present and future. A reviewer who gave highest honors to Halo 3 can't criticize games for being short anymore, for being repetitive, shallow and poorly written, poorly delivered, poorly modeled and poorly animated, games that lack innovation, games that are made so specifically for higher-difficulty co-op that solo players will face big balancing issues. Etc. If all of these angles of criticism have vaporized for all games, that would beg the question why now, but it still would be something that can perhaps be accepted as a new stance. But that's not how this happened. These were just exceptions that were being made for one game, because the PR people were such a nice bunch, and their love for their game was so genuine, the magic of those moments, yes, that all justfied the highest score ever. Right.
bcn-ron said:
Exceptions were made for every game on that list, dude. Every single one of them has flaws. Every. Single. One.
See what I did there with the periods and stuff?
Justified is a great word. People have to find some way to justify why a game they don't like is rated so highly by one of the more respected review magazines on the market (not to mention every other review magazine as well). It's because they were moneyhatted. Because they transformed their editorial practices. Because they were swayed by marketing. Right.
bcn-ron said:
I don't think it invalidates these points at all. The point is that Halo 3's 10/10 didn't mean these things present in the game WEREN'T flaws, but rather they were mitigated by other areas of the game (Cortana's awfulness being outweighed by The Convenant, for example). As has been said, Edge gave a 10/10 not because the game is perfect, but that it (the whole package, just as with The Orange Box) merits the highest commendation on the 1-10 scale.
I disagree. Bioshock's gameplay and its narrative are among the most separable I've seen in a recent title. That the developer's take on Ayn Rand's terrible classic Atlus Shrugged is fascinating and involving... is hardly relevant to the dreadfulness of the combat mechanic. The sandbox is full of piss, but damn the garden's nice.buckfutter said:
Burai said:
Tony Mott, speaking about Edge's rating system, courtesy of Games Radar.
These don't strike me as words from an Editor in Chief that wants to be less critical and less honest with his publications rating system. Looks like the opposite.
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
urk said:
EDGE's always been harsh, that's why I'm reactin to some of the stuff they say about H3. Granted that the multiplayer parts of Halo 3 are very good with all the different options but the damn game is still kinda stuck in 2001 at its core and that's why I can't see that 10/10.
buckfutter
Member
But the world presented is the context for that arguably crappy action. If it took place, with identical level layouts, in a giant toy factory run by Kelsey Grammar then it would play differently, wouldn't it? You wouldn't react to the world the same way, you wouldn't play the same way, and so the game doesn't play the same way. On a very abstract level, sure, the moment to moment combat isn't touched by the overarching commentary - but the small, moment to moment stories within the world formed to support that commentary are influencing you. Giving you motivation to fight through the levels and such. If they just threw a big level at you and said "pot of gold at the end, go for it", would it really feel the same?Sir Fragula said:
Really, all I'm saying is don't go "I loved Bioshock because it had a great story, but the combat was wonky so it isn't a good game". It's either a good game, a bad game, or in the middle. In your case, you'd probably say it was in the middle, because it just wasn't fun to play for you even though the story was intriguing. Your overall opinion is balanced by the many facets of the game. If it had a terrible story and the exact same wonky combat, is it a worse game, or just as bad as it was before?
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Kuroyume said:
Because it feels just like playing Halo, only dual wield. Sure, they added some new items too.
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
urk said:Super Mario Galaxy feels a whole hell of a lot like Super Mario 64, only in space. Sure, they added some new items too.
Stuck in 1996!
Well, you could argue that it doesn't, with all of the toying with gravity, planets and ridiculously well designed levels and etc. But I gotta admit, the items in SMG are extremly fun. The Bee suit, spring thingy and such.
CajoleJuice
Member
All I know is that I had one of my good friends over a few days back and the minute I fired up some Halo 3 co-op the first thing out of his mouth was "Wow, this looks like Halo 1" and then after playing a bit he was like, "This is like the same thing as it's always been." I laughed at the time because I imagined typing this on GAF and no one believing me. :lolurk said:Super Mario Galaxy feels a whole hell of a lot like Super Mario 64, only in space. Sure, they added some new items too.
Stuck in 1996!
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
CajoleJuice said:
Your friend has the perception of many, many wise men
CajoleJuice
Member
Online multiplayer would have probably been more fun, but of course, Live was down.ItsInMyVeins said:Your friend has the perception of many, many wise men
itsinmyveins
Gets to pilot the crappy patrol labors
Kuroyume said:
Can you tell me how it plays differently? There are items of course which do have some impact, but hardly enough to tilt the gameplay on its side compared to the first Halo.
CajoleJuice said:
Anecdotes!
I was over at my brother's house for Christmas and he fired up Galaxy and his eight-year-old son said it didn't look any better than what he was playing on his Gamecube. True story.
Didn't stop him from having fun with it though. We played for a few hours. I can't tell you what he thinks about Halo because he's not old enough to play it, but for the purposes of this thread I'm sure he would agree that it's complete garbage.
CajoleJuice
Member
lolzKuroyume said:
I guess I should add that he was never as big a gamer as many of my friends, and doesn't really play them anymore, but he was a huge Halo fan back in the day.
As did Might & Magic VI. Alas, 'tis not the case.JonAmikar said:
Mechanically, it was nearly identical to Sunshine (although the rest of the game drew mostly from SM64 and Mario 3, it really felt a lot like Sunshine).urk said:Super Mario Galaxy feels a whole hell of a lot like Super Mario 64, only in space. Sure, they added some new items too.
Stuck in 1996!
Well, you still shoot, melee and toss grenades. You still drive Warthogs and shoot Grunts in grassy fields and in Forefunner installations. So there's a lot that's the same.ItsInMyVeins said:
But then, in Halo 1 there were what, ten weapons, including grenades? In Halo 3 we're up to what, 30ish, including equipment? These are not small things - the addition equipment and support weapons (the turrets, missile pod, flamethrower) represent a deeper set of tactical options to handle the new kinds of situations the game throws at you. Considering that's what Halo's gameplay is all about, it brings a great deal to the table. As for new gameplay experiences, here's couple that pop to mind. With pictures.
--There is no analogue to taking down the Scarab on The Storm, where you have several entirely different options on how to approach the task. Do you use a turret to take out one of the legs? Take the elevator up the crane and jump a vehicle onto the back? Or blow the back off the Scarab and snipe the weak point to destroy it without ever boarding it?
--There is no comparable encounter to the barracks fight on Crow's Nest, where you are literally being hunted down by a very large Brute pack (over 20 strong).
--At no point in Halo 1 or 2 have I been running in a panic away from a Chieftain carrying a hammer aimed at swatting me accross the room. There was a lot of talk about how Big Daddies are these amazing, roaming boss fights, but I spent a lot more time this year dealing with these guys. And it was more fun, to boot.
--Or faced with such an epic encounter that had so many ways to approach it:
--When in Halo 1 and 2 did we have a giant aerial and ground battle ala the two Scarab fight on the Covenant?
--Head here for my post about four encounters in a short span that played out in very interesting manners because of the use of Equipment.
Here's one other that happened this week:
I was playing The Ark on Legendary in two player co-op online (that's new, too), specifically the big fight to clear a landing zone for Forward Unto Dawn. I took my Chopper around to shoot at the Brute pack on the left, with the gravity lift sniper perch; my partner went to the right to tango with the Wraith. I'm about 100 feet away from the Brutes, firing away. In Halo 1 or 2, I would just stay there and pound them down from range and then move on. Instead, one of them hurled an energy drain my way, which dropped my Chopper to the ground. Two of them unloaded with Brute Shots, so I had to bail out of the vehicle before it got blown to pieces. I fired back with my Brute Shot, but they threw down two bubble shields and the shots splashed on them harmlessly. While I pondered my situation, a shot from the Wraith landed on my head.
What happened is I'd lost track of my co-op buddy, who had been taken down by the pair of Ghosts that come out to support the tank. I had also forgotten that this fight involves four separate groups of enemies (wraith/turret/Grunts; two ghosts; Brute pack by the gravity lift; Grunts and Brutes guarding the AA wraiths) which need to be monitored concurrently. Never had that much to keep track of at once in Halo 1 or 2. It's this constant dance of give and take, the frequent change of tactics forced by so many variables intelligently used, that makes Halo 3 interesting to play.
Every level of the game is jam-packed with moments like this. Bungie kept the core gameplay true to the original game, but have deepened and expanded it in ways that go far beyond it.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
u need to play halo 3 for 60 hours before it becomes a 10.kylej said:
CajoleJuice
Member
Kirby's Air Ride > Halo 3Son of Godzilla said:
Son of Godzilla
Banned
bubsy > allCajoleJuice said:
CajoleJuice
Member
I concede defeat.
rollingstart
Banned
I dont think its a problem that it plays/looks a lot like the original Halo, my problem is that they had both Halo 1 and 2 to draw feedback on and they still thought the Cortana level would be a good idea. Since using Mario examples are so popular in this thread, it would be like if the entire Super Mario Galaxy was set in a volcano with a flamethrower/jetpack. Basically not taking the criticisms of previous games to heart and improving on them, although Bungie did change the brutes and flood (which still suck, just suck less now) for the better (except I didnt exactly like how the brutes were tanks when it came to taking damage). Oh, and just because I am venting some of my problems with the game, the way melee wasbased on damage instead of reaction speed was a horrible decision. I play Halo with melee on the right thumbstick so I can do it quickly because I generally fight mid to close range, but taking away the reaction speed to it makes it feel more like a shitty RPG than an FPS game that should be about the reflexes of the player
These motherfuckers are terrifying on Heroic or Legendary. I can't count how many times I'd thought I had the drop on a Chieftain, only to have him kick in his shielding at the exact right moment, leaving me trying to backpedal as the hulking Brute charged my position, swaying hammer at the ready.
"Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk!"
Those two shots were taken from a solo Legendary run on Crow's Nest. It took me half an hour to finally get through the entire pack, except for this guy, without dying. He chases me up and then down the entire length of the hallway before using me as a baseball.urk said:
These motherfuckers are terrifying on Heroic or Legendary. I can't count how many times I'd thought I had the drop on a Chieftain, only to have him kick in his shielding at the exact right moment, leaving me trying to backpedal as the hulking Brute charged my position, swaying hammer at the ready.
"Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk!"
CajoleJuice
Member
It didn't get a 10 from Edge though.Y2Kev said: