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[JayDubya]

There's no such thing as free will.

The free market has failed us too many times, it's time to find something new.

Belief a) and belief b) would logically follow, I suppose. If you don't believe in voluntary actions based among a range of choices, you wouldn't believe in a free market, because people aren't going to make choices, they're just going to do what God or their genes or whatever makes them do.

Also, the alternative is nothing new, and the results are historically obvious.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Belief a) and belief b) would logically follow, I suppose. If you don't believe in voluntary actions based among a range of choices, you wouldn't believe in a free market, because people aren't going to make choices, they're just going to do what God or their genes or whatever makes them do.

People make decisions based on influences. In the free market these influences normally include greed, which isn't a bad thing by itself but all too often people are so consumed by greed they will break or subvert they very system they rely on to satisfy it.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Consumerism and the trend psychology of the masses is being utilized by corporations to control the wants and desires of consumers. (the diamond ring for marriage, etc.)

Specialization and trade, or globalism, is an important part of economic growth that is being under-utilized due to fears of short-term cost in structural/frictional unemployment.

Western countries should be more sympathetic towards refugees who come from countries in terrible conditions.

There should be much more serious action taking place right now to minimize the dangers of global warming.

Funding for space exploration should move up, not down. An international organization should also be put in place as an independent body taking the best from every nation (much like the UN) to further this cause as an alternative to the American and Russian-only space programs, although they would still dominate as those central behind past efforts in this arena.

The HECs system in Australia for university payment should be a universal standard, perhaps even for high schools in lesser-off countries, if economically possible. The government has a number of places reserved for students who achieve a certain level of achievement, where they would pay for all tuition now and receive back this money incrementally (and straight from the pay check, as with income tax) as the student enters into employment.

People who hate Nintendo and their fans blindly are more annoying than the fans who love Nintendo blindly.

Tolkien is overrated, but still great.

Watership Down is underrated and excellent, but still flawed.

 

[elektrikluv]

I don't think those people should have been banned no matter how controversial (see: stupid) their opinions were.

I never agree with you but I do on this point

 

[NZer]

-
- If you are a pedophile, you should be shipped off to a work camp in Alaska. Escape is impossible if it is located several dozen miles from any community. You would still have a good quality of life but you would not have access to outside society again. Psychologists would then study pedos and figure out prevention tactics. If pedos have proven themselves to exist without diddling little kids, they can be released.


- There should be a branch of the military devoted to cracking down on urban warfare (gangs). Then once arrested, mass relocation. Keep kids away from the gang environment, like going from LA to Fargo. If they can't keep their shit straight in North Dakota, then it is off to work camps for them.

- Significantly ramp up difficulty in education. If a kid can't read in 4th grade, they can't advance any further. Can't write a sentence? Tough shit, you stay behind. If the kid doesn't want to be seen as an embarrassment being 15 and still in 5th grade, too bad. This might cause some to drop out, maybe, but coddling morons is not the answer.

- Euthanasia should be legalized. If I'm old and shit my pants all the time, it is time for me to hang it up. I don't want to have to hang myself or shoot myself or anything like that. Just let me die.

This I agree with

 

[TheHeretic]

America as a country is a disgrace, and I barely lifted and eyebrow when 911 occured.

 

[takotchi]

There should be no ratings on games, movies, TV shows, or any other media, ever. No censorship or de facto censorship like the ESRB and the AO rating. Any person or business caught trying to coerce another person or company into censoring their product should be imprisoned.

There should be no government-endorsed marriage. People of sound mind can have whatever contract they want to draw up between themselves; man-man, woman-man, woman-woman-woman-woman-man, etc. This also means no tax penalty for staying single or not having a ton of kids.

 

[zon]

Off-topic: I have pestersome Jehovah's witnesses that keep bugging me but I'm too nice to tell them to fuck off. So I've taken to wearing my blood donation T-shirts to answer they door when I think it is them to see if they'll take the hint. :lol

I think I'll launch into an evolution lecture one of these times.

Do what my mother did when they visited us when I was just a baby (~20 years ago). She told them that they don't love their children.

The JW couple replied (obviously) with "What? Of course we love our children!"

Then my mom told them that if they really did love their children, they would let them have a blood transfusion if that would save the childs life and that she (my mom) would never allow anyone or anything to remove an option that might save the life of her son.

The woman of the JW couple just stood there and tried to answer my mom, but instead she only kept opening and closing her mouth as her face was getting more and more red. We haven't had a single visit from a JW since then.

 

[ghst]

Daniel Plainview was right fucking on.

I despise almost all "ism's".

 

[PrinceAdam]

-There's something fishy about 9/11

 

[NinjaFridge]

Did you miss the part where someone suggested that the Holocaust didn't happen, or the part where someone else suggested that rape was OK as long as you stimulate an orgasm? :lol

I don't think he is suggesting that it didn't happen, i think he is trying to say that it wasn't as 'big' as people are led to believe. That should not be bannable.

 

[The Librarian]

Abolish the death penalty.

 

[NinjaFridge]

Natalie Portman is not hot. Not even close

 

[NinjaFridge]

What is and isn't bannable is up to the mods, so, uh, whatever. Also:

...in his own words, mang.

I think that he like many people associate holocaust = 6 millions Jews, so if it was less then to him holocaust may not be the appropriate name.

either way i don't care

 

[Nolan.]

I don't think those guys should have been banned at this point to be honest. I don't share their opinions. However I just dislike when anyone gets cut short because what they believe isn't fitting in with popular ones. Particularly when they were'nt attacking anyone. I just think stuff like that only breeds more intensely angry people and i'm not talking strictly about the internet. A lot of people just seem to prefer pretence than honesty.

 

[Dice]

-Marriage should happen during mid teens. Some would say kids that age aren't ready, I would say divorce trends prove 40 year olds aren't ready. The whole thing has been ruined because it is now an individualistic union rather than an entire social structure as it once was. It's basis ought not be not a so-called commitment contingent on feelings, but a covenantal promise to the entire family of your spouse. It flourishes in an environment of support from the entire family and in a community of families supporting each other with love, wisdom and practical help.

-The American educational system fulfills the opposite of it's purpose. 1) It makes children teach themselves. 2) It introduces many concepts before they occur in the development of the brain thus forcing the children to take on a pattern of merely repeating back things they haven't learned. 3) It permanently marks those having trouble so as to discourage them rather than try to understand and give them the help they need. 4) With hindrances from returning to achieve progress where one was previously marked with failure in conjunction with legal allowances in business, it has a large hand in creating the lower class.

-Food should not be an industry.

-Democracy is oppression and on a large scale it is not only run entirely by money, but is literally impossible to work any other way.

 

[Nolan.]

Well yes, that's life. People prefer politeness to honesty. I haven't shared some of my actually controversial opinions for that very reason. And I'm not about to.

If you want you could pm your opinions and if I don't like them i'll expose you!.

 

[Amir0x]

Do what my mother did when they visited us when I was just a baby (~20 years ago). She told them that they don't love their children.

The JW couple replied (obviously) with "What? Of course we love our children!"

Then my mom told them that if they really did love their children, they would let them have a blood transfusion if that would save the childs life and that she (my mom) would never allow anyone or anything to remove an option that might save the life of her son.

The woman of the JW couple just stood there and tried to answer my mom, but instead she only kept opening and closing her mouth as her face was getting more and more red. We haven't had a single visit from a JW since then.

Fundamentally this is a stupid argument from a JW perspective though. Your mom may have thought she was clever, but that shallow appeal to emotion didn't really address why the JW believe in no transfusions - whether right or wrong - and why at its core, nothing can ever change their minds.

To a Jehovah's Witness, taking a blood transfusion means possibly damaging one's access to life eternal. From a faith perspective, what's the winner: life forever, or life for around 80 years or so in this world? To them, they are saving their son or daughters ETERNAL LIFE, which is an infinitely more loving thing to do on these terms.

You may have an easy answer "oh, there's no God so there's no eternal life", but again you're arguing outside of the Bible and therefore within the terms of religious debate it's a loser to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Since it is faith based, any argument that proposes they don't "love their children" is simply not going to ring true to them. That JW likely left your house, laughing. And I can promise you nothing you said made them stop coming.

In the future when you want to not receive visits from Jehovah's Witnesses:

Simply tell them to mark you as a "do not return/do not call" home on their territory. Then they will not return.

 

[hokahey]

I read the first page of this thread, then skipped to the last page of this thread. Hilarity ensued when the tone went from civilly stating opinions to a giant FUCK YOU. :lol

 

[Einherjar]

I've never been a fan of religion. I can see how it was necessary centuries ago to control people and prevent chaos. Now it functions to help people so I suppose it's not a bad thing, but to me it seems like a massive waste of time and money. Then I see shit like Scientology and it just disgusts me further, I lose a bit of respect for humans when they can separate themselves from family and give away all their money for something like that. Though honestly, in my opinion every 'serious' religion is just a more deceptive version of Scientology that doesn't blatantly give away how fake (for a lack of a better word) it is. I do however, understand that people can be raised in a poor environment and it is not their fault for being susceptible to brainwashing.

 

[Dice]

We're past the point of being able to fix the problems we created related to environmental concerns. We would have to change the foundations we've built society on and that is a process that cannot complete quickly enough, no matter how many people care. At this point it is wiser to use our resources to brace for impact than waste them on efforts that won't develop quickly enough to withstand the major agricultural shifts, water and energy strains, and mass migrations to come.

 

[Shockgamer]

America needs its own great wall. From to San Diego, California to Brownsville, Texas.

 

[harSon]

How come Saitou was banned? This is a thread for controversial opinions isn't it? I've read some other pretty bad things in this thread, maybe not as bad but still bad (eg. Rape isn't rape if you have an orgasm). And other ignorant opinions with no basis to them.

I think there is a clear difference between a controversial opinion and flat out denial...

 

[Amir0x]

Do you guys actually think that if a thread says "state your controversial opinions", it means "break the TOS"? No thread can override the rules. Controversial opinions are fine - racism and holocaust denying, and things like it, are not.

 

[zon]

Fundamentally this is a stupid argument from a JW perspective though. Your mom may have thought she was clever, but that shallow appeal to emotion didn't really address why the JW believe in no transfusions - whether right or wrong - and why at its core, nothing can ever change their minds.

It was not about being clever, my mom was more mad than anything.

To a Jehovah's Witness, taking a blood transfusion means possibly damaging one's access to life eternal. From a faith perspective, what's the winner: life forever, or life for around 80 years or so in this world? To them, they are saving their son or daughters ETERNAL LIFE, which is an infinitely more loving thing to do on these terms.

You may have an easy answer "oh, there's no God so there's no eternal life", but again you're arguing outside of the Bible and therefore within the terms of religious debate it's a loser to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Exactly, they are putting their own faith above the life of their children. It is more important to them to adhere to their religion, than saving the one thing most parents in this world would sacrifice their own life for.

That's what my mother meant when she said they didn't love their children.

Since it is faith based, any argument that proposes they don't "love their children" is simply not going to ring true to them. That JW likely left your house, laughing. And I can promise you nothing you said made them stop coming.

That JW left furious, because she knew she couldn't say my mother was wrong. And I can promise you that what my mom said made them stop coming.

 

[Karakand]

taking the best from every nation (much like the UN)

lolz

-Food should not be an industry.

High five my man.

 

[MisterHero]

I like George Bush

[/anti-conformist jerk]

 

[Amir0x]

Exactly, they are putting their own faith above the life of their children. It is more important to them to adhere to their religion, than saving the one thing most parents in this world would sacrifice their own life for.

That's what my mother meant when she said they didn't love their children.

You still don't get it. It's not "putting faith above the life of their children." You're arguing from a position where you do not believe. But for them? Allowing them to receive blood is as good as killing them with their own hands. "Faith" = "Truth" for them, and there's no logical way you or anyone else can debunk such belief on those terms.

Now, the problem with saying that they don't love their children is that any Jehovah's Witness will actively pursue every avenue of medical care, save for blood transfusions. They'll try any alternative methods of care, and it has actually been of larger benefit to the medical community at large who wishes to find alternatives to blood in the first place.

Watch this Documentary. It will educate you beyond the elementary rejection that stems more from ignorance than the reality.

Everyone should have a full right to accept/deny any medical care they choose. This is a fundamental right that should not be removed from anyone. At a certain age, a child may choose to go against what his parent decides. So if they both decide they do not want blood transfusions, that is not for lack of love.

That JW left furious, because she knew she couldn't say my mother was wrong. And I can promise you that what my mom said made them stop coming.

Zon, take it from me. The second they left they were joking about your door, smiling onto the next one. Unless your mother actively asked to be removed from their territory, or attacked them, or threatened legal action, they will never stop coming for something as infantile as being told they don't love their children.

 

[way more]

I find Young Earth Creationists more respectable than those pushing Intelligent Design.

 

[FiRez]

Piracy != stealing

I'm pro-life but people should have a license to have kids

I'm atheist and I hope society would be a lot more secular at least, but I hate to debate with others about this because everytime I tried it was just a waste of time for me and them.

I don't want to get married neither have kids, after being lonely so many years I honestly started to like it (maybe Ark-Amn wasn't a troll after all)

monetary aid for the 3rd world is a waste (I live in a 3rd world country btw)

Internet > invention of printing press

The selfish gene contains probably the most pausible theory I've read about the purpouse of life or the lack of it

I don't agree that drugs should be legal, anything that alters the mental state of any individual is a potential harm for others

Halo:CE is still the best game I have played

 

[Karakand]

I find Young Earth Creationists more respectable than those pushing Intelligent Design.

Well they aren't trying to be a wolf in sheep's clothing so I can kind of see why you'd feel that way.

 

[VeritasVierge]

It's already a clusterfuck and is just a big disaster waiting to happen since GAF has always been fickle on controversial topics and usually locks them before long anyways. This thread doesn't even make any sense in some regards either. Some ignorant comments get a free pass and others are stomped out (I didn't know GAF has potential Palestinian terrorists as visitors). Why not call this thread for the ban trap it is?

Oh, Amir0x, I defended nobody and even if I stick up for someone's right to say something it doesn't mean I "talk to them", want to be their friend or even like them as a person. Don't get your emotions entangled into this. You're a mod for crying out loud.

 

[Fuzz Rez]

I think McCain would be better President for US than Obama.

 

[Slavik81]

Exactly, they are putting their own faith above the life of their children. It is more important to them to adhere to their religion, than saving the one thing most parents in this world would sacrifice their own life for.

That's what my mother meant when she said they didn't love their children.

I don't think you actually understand what religion is supposed to be. You're meant to actually believe in it as if it were the truth. To the faithful, it isn't a matter of being true to their religion. Their religion is the truth. They're not sacrificing their children for their beliefs, they are saving their children. Or, at least, that's what they think. And if you respect religious beliefs, you have no place telling them they are wrong.

That's the fundamental problem with religion. When you are not required to have a reason to believe something (read: the virtue of faith), you open the doors to any belief no matter how ridiculous. The only things you should take on faith are really basic things which cannot be proved without assuming them (like cause and effect).

What you're attacking them for assumes that they don't really believe in their religion. That they follow it as a tradition, but don't think it's the truth.

Definitely.

I sorta meant anything not based in objective reality...math/science need not apply.

Sure. You'd be hard pressed to show that anything is entirely objective, though. There are always fundamental assumptions, even in science. The difference is that the fundamental assumptions in science and math are generally very basic and not very complex. Ultimately, whether you think these assumptions are valid or not is subjective. They'll always be made from a very limited and very human perspective. In fact, so will all observations and the methods of making conclusions from them.

Not that I'm out looking to argue with you, I just find that it's a good learning exercise to try and poke holes in the beliefs of others. Both people can learn a lot from constantly having their justifications tested.

Man made and only applies to certain things in certain places.

If you were to argue that of mathematics, it would be tough to assert that science is not.

 

[Amir0x]

It's already a clusterfuck and is just a big disaster waiting to happen since GAF has always been fickle on controversial topics and usually locks them before long anyways. This thread doesn't even make any sense in some regards either. Some ignorant comments get a free pass and others are stomped out (I didn't know GAF has potential Palestinian terrorists as visitors). Why not call this thread for the ban trap it is?

Oh, Amir0x, I defended nobody and even if I stick up for someone's right to say something it doesn't mean I "talk to them", want to be their friend or even like them as a person. Don't get your emotions entangled into this. You're a mod for crying out loud.

It has nothing to do with emotions.

We can discuss plenty of controversial opinions without also breaking the T.O.S. Therefore, there is no reason to destroy the thread. If you cannot discern between that simple difference, that is your problem and not mine or GAFs.

Now, if you continue trying to backseat mod you too will join their ranks. That's not a threat.

 

[elektrikluv]

It's already a clusterfuck and is just a big disaster waiting to happen since GAF has always been fickle on controversial topics and usually locks them before long anyways. This thread doesn't even make any sense in some regards either. Some ignorant comments get a free pass and others are stomped out (I didn't know GAF has potential Palestinian terrorists as visitors). Why not call this thread for the ban trap it is?

What are you talking about?

 

[Slavik81]

Let's see if I can list more things:

I am pro-choice but anti-abortion.

I am pro-Israel but anti-settlements

I am pro-consumer but anti-"corporations are evil"

I honestly think we should start calling the two camps anti-life and anti-choice. Just because the doublespeak inherent to their name really bugs me. Give them a taste of their own medicine and all that. Maybe force them both to stop framing the discussion and to take a broader perspective. I'm a part of neither pro-choice nor pro-life because I don't want to be associated with the beliefs or the ridiculous arguments of either of them. There's common ground to be found, but neither of them even listen to the other.

I'm somewhat confused, though. You seem to be abusing the term 'pro-choice'. In current political context, it means the parent retains most (if not all) rights over the developing child until birth. Almost as a precondition, it includes the right to abort for at least some period of time. There's a spectrum, to be sure, but it would be disingenuous to claim to be a part of that group when your belief is so contrary to their purpose.

 

[Zoe]

I'm somewhat confused, though. You seem to be abusing the term 'pro-choice'. In current political context, it means the parent retains most (if not all) rights over the developing child until birth. Almost as a precondition, it includes the right to abort for at least some period of time.

Usually when people phrase it that way it means that they support other people being able to choose it as an option but they themselves would never take that option.

 

[JayDubya]

Usually when people phrase it that way it means that they support other people being able to choose it as an option, but they themselves would never take that option.

Which is a pro-abortion position.

 

[Zoe]

Which is a pro-abortion position.

Eh... given the context, I'd say it'd be more accurate to label somebody with that position as "pro-choice" while those who would actually be willing to go through with it as "pro-abortion."

 

[zaccheus]

I think we should settle mars and let earth alone to live its course so we can let all the cool wildlife alone

 

[Zoe]

I think we should settle mars and let earth alone to live its course so we can let all the cool wildlife alone

But what about all the cool wildlife on Mars?

 

[Anth]

- Homosexuality is a choice. And not a better or worse one than Heterosexuality.

- Anyone who has a deathwish continously for a week should be allowed to kill himself.

- Religion is completely stupid, and should be tolerated, but not in any way supported by the state. Religions which don't make all their teachings public, i.e. cults, like scientology, should not be tolerated.

- Pumping money into Africa isn't worth it, because most African countries are run by completely incompetent and corrupt assholes. Give food to the poor, get the persecuted out of there, but otherwise, just hope that they turn into decent states at some point int the future.

- Clinton is probably more competent and would make a better president than Obama.

- There is no free will.

- There needs to be more long-term thinking in politics and business. Countries should never have any substantial amount of debt, even if it has to raise taxes for that.

- The culmination of human society is a world government, every country should have that as its ultimate goal. Global corporations can not be controlled by single countries.

- Democracy sucks, the only good thing about it is that its the most efficient way to stop corruption. Never let the people decide anything directly, unless you absolutely have to. People are stupid.

- States that are managed efficiently, even if their values are iffy (China) may complain about about not being respected in the West and ask for more tolerance for their way to run their country.
States that are complete clusterfucks (most of Africa) may not, because obviously, their way to run the country is retarded. Start being a proper state, and the West will show you respect.

 

[Slavik81]

Usually when people phrase it that way it means that they support other people being able to choose it as an option but they themselves would never take that option.

Oh.
Awesome.

=

Which is a pro-abortion position.

Not quite. You can endorse having the freedom to do something but not endorse actually doing it. Like, you can suggest that it should remain legal to yell at your friends but not say that it's a good thing.

However, from the point of view of human rights, you'd be right to say the view is the same. For his viewpoint to make sense, he'd have to have similar views on pre-birth human rights as the pro-choice groups.

 

[VeritasVierge]

What are you talking about?

Look at what The Grand Lucifarius said in detail and consider the implications. There's a lot of "potential" there.

Amir0x, this thread blurs simple opinions and things that break the TOS. There are things that are subjective like Birdlfu's comments about there would be less crime if it weren't for black people. Ignorant indeed but only because he failed to look into other things that factor into it. It could be taken as terribly offensive or just terribly stupid. Even Evander's blanket "I hate white people" comment is subjective. I'm just trying to figure were the line is crossed since this thread seems to blur a lot of it.

 

[Amir0x]

This is the line

More than that, though, the terms of service is there for you to read. If you think you're going to cross the line, you probably are.

 

[FiRez]

- There is no free will.

Can you explain why?

I think there are a lot of peer and circumstantial pressure to make decisions even critical decisions about your life but free will does exist.

 

[Sapiens]

Homosinuality is a temptation from the devil, which makes you want to smoke crack and diddle young boys. It is not a choice or even something you were born with and you can overcome it if (and only if) you accept Jesus as your personal lord and saviour.

All homosexuals are deviants and therefore are also pedophiles and zoophiles.


Poor people are poor because they don't work hard enough. They have all the same opportunities because American is a free country.

Black People are genetically predisposed to criminality because of a 18 century scam to breed out all the slaves who exhibited more 'white' traits. The reasoning is that slave owning society wanted further justification to subjugate blacks. Therefore, the black american people alive today are basically evil.

I support the War, but not the troops (they are godless heathens).

Get a job.


There is one true religion, Christianity as intepreted by god's TRUE children, the evangelicals, and I am rich and prosperous in all regards because I love Jesus. The reason I can afford to fill my SUV up and only take two bites out of my five big macs a day before I throw them out is because I believe in Jesus. I'm better than you.

All people who believe in all other religions are actually minions of satan, and I await a holy war, where I and my army of SUV riding God warriors will wipe out all who choose not to believe in Jesus. Our ascension to heaven will be glorious!

 

[harSon]

Homosinuality is a temptation from the devil, which makes you want to smoke crack and diddle young boys. It is not a choice or even something you were born with and you can overcome it if (and only if) you accept Jesus as your personal lord and saviour.

All homosexuals are deviants and therefore are also pedophiles and zoophiles.


Poor people are poor because they don't work hard enough. They have all the same opportunities because American is a free country.

Black People are genetically predisposed to criminality because of a 18 century scam to breed out all the slaves who exhibited more 'white' traits. The reasoning is that slave owning society wanted further justification to subjugate blacks. Therefore, the black american people alive today are basically evil.

I support the War, but not the troops (they are godless heathens).

Get a job.


There is one true religion, Christianity as intepreted by god's TRUE children, the evangelicals, and I am rich and prosperous in all regards because I love Jesus. The reason I can afford to fill my SUV up and only take two bites out of my five big macs a day before I throw them out is because I believe in Jesus. I'm better than you.

All people who believe in all other religions are actually minions of satan, and I await a holy war, where I and my army of SUV riding God warriors will wipe out all who choose not to believe in Jesus. Our ascension to heaven will be glorious!

Wat

 

[MisterHero]

All people who believe in all other religions are actually minions of satan, and I await a holy war, where I and my army of SUV riding God warriors will wipe out all who choose not to believe in Jesus. Our ascension to heaven will be glorious!

Though I suppose everything you said was pretty bad as well. :lol