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[Quazar]

To be honest, college is pretty bad for expanding knowledge and it is getting worse.Too basic, too diluted in general requirements and less of the branch you want to study, more focused on social dynamics than actual knowledge, too many stresses in homework and exams than actual learning.

Totally agree. Best class I had in Uni is where we had to go to a business (any business) and build them a database within semester. I wish every class incorporated this approach to learning.

 

[TruHero]

History

My sister-in-law has a BA in History and works full-time in retail. Her parents offered to pay for her Masters, but she chose to just work in retail instead.

 

[Goliath]

My business major friends came out of college making 50K doing clerical work while I made the same as you in my first lab job. Of course this was in the early 2000's..I remember reading the average salary coming out of college for a bio bench job was 25K/year for a bio major - I knew cage wash techs in vivariums (no need for a college degree) making that + overtime.

What's even scarier to me is that at my institution, those hiring for my current position (I only have a BS and I get paid peanuts) now are asking for a Ph.D. That's just fuckin absurd

As far as my experience, when the recession hit, my Business major friends got hit pretty hard. At a certain point in your career with Bio it becomes about what piece of equipment you have touched or research you have done and that can significantly impact your competitiveness and salary. Right now I am going back to school for a Master in Bioinformatics. Seems like the best way forward.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

To be honest, college is pretty bad for expanding knowledge and it is getting worse.Too basic, too diluted in general requirements and less of the branch you want to study, more focused on social dynamics than actual knowledge, too many stresses in homework and exams than actual learning.

I agree. Even in the way a lot of the new classrooms are designed now, they have like huge projector screens front and center and then the whiteboards or whatever for actually writing on are basically an afterthought. And even a set up like that essentially forces professors to teach by reading off powerpoint slides because if you stand up in front of the class and actually give a lecture, then you're standing in the way of the fucking projector lol. I think it's another reason why philosophy classes are still a lot of fun for me, I don't think you can really get away with teaching off powerpoint slides in a philosophy class. The ratio of facts to ideas that actually need some active explanation are like 1:9.

 

[The Lamp]

You don't need a MS to become an actuary.

Like I said, it really depends on the job.

No you don't, but like I also said, it depends, and having an MS or PhD is often important for working in that field and applied mathematics/statistics.

 

[IrishNinja]

Philosophy.

Philosophy.

You're basically majoring in unemployment.

This. The most worthless.

Nonsense. They make the best lattes.

ya'll just made the list

If I was rich and never had to worry about money or work again, I would get a philosophy degree.

Philosophy. I have a degree or two in it, my boss has one, and his boss' boss has one and we all do pretty well working for a company with great benefits and a kickass pension plan, but it is a degree that is a foundation for leveraging into something else. It allowed me to blow my competition out of the water in graduate work (where the shallowness of business and applied science majors was neck-snappingly clear), but it is definitely something you have to do more with. Those same engineers and business majors had a better chance of walking into jobs out of undergrad because their narrow education was laser focused.

I knew this would be one of the first posts. If you define University as just a route for a career, prehaps it is a worthless degree. However, I think philosophy is one of those majors that will stick onto you for the rest of your life. The readings will have an effect on you and continue to provide purpose if you take it seriously

By the way most people that do well in a major like philosophy probably have an easier time getting into grad school. Philosophy is entrenched in all fields, one way or another.

Philosophy might not be the straightest path to a well paying job, but that doesn't make it worthless. I'm glad people are studying it.

Philosophy is a multiplier. By itself, it's fairly tepid in earning potentials.

Paired with other degrees it's rather very potent, either as an entrepreneur, an innovator, a leader or just someone that can effectively identify issues and convince others to their point of view.

these people are good people and society is better off with them in it

I'm trying to pull out my BA in Philosophy right now. I honestly don't know if I can get into a graduate program (my cumulative GPA is hovering around 2.7 right now due to a number of factors, such as me not being able to complete all my schoolwork because of OCD). Hopefully I can go and supplement it with something practical to make it easier to find a job. I have a few years of data entry experience so *shrug*

But... I don't regret it? It's the one field I've actually been interested in. It taught me how to formulate arguments properly and write papers really easily if anything. I feel much more knowledgeable than I did in my dumb high school years, and if anything it has made me want to read classic works for the next few decades in my spare time.

I hope I can get into a graduate program using other factors such as my job and maybe take some more classes on the side.

just wanted to say good luck man! pad things a bit if you need to raise that GPA, you should be good for that grad program

 

[Nipo]

ya'll just made the list











these people are good people and society is better off with them in it



just wanted to say good luck man! pad things a bit if you need to raise that GPA, you should be good for that grad program

I hire entry level analysts for our team. I always pick the resumes of philosophy majors because along with econ majors they are the only ones who can consistently make it through the case studies.

 

[The Lamp]

No degree is worthless. Most companies just want to know that you can learn, hence requiring a degree.

If you're actually looking to work in the field related to your degree, then that's an entirely different story. Anything dealing with electronics can't steer you wrong. Every company needs some nerd to fix their electronics.

While no degree is useless per se, there are some degrees that I would say have a hard time demonstrating to external parties that you learned a significant amount of useful skills...

One of the popular majors at my university for lazy people who don't want to do shit is called RPTS (Recreation, Parks, and Tourism Sciences). Given the large Christian population at the university, it is sometimes teased as "Rest and Play 'Til Seminary" major.

When your curriculum has things like:
- the final paper for a course being a 2-page essay on the leadership skills you developed by volunteering at a puppy shelter for 2-days as part of an in-class activity.
- the final exam to your "youth development" course ends up with you and the entire class figuring it out together in class, and whenever you get stuck, the professor just tells you the answer.
- one of your junior level courses includes assignments like watching Disney movies and writing a 2-page essay about the youth development implications of it (but what you write doesn't matter, you and everyone will make an A anyway).

It's hard for an employer to believe your BA in RPTS really proved them anything.

One time I was in the library and a PhD student in RPTS approached me and asked me to contribute to her dissertation research by answering a 1-page multiple choice survey on how comfortable I felt reading a map of Disney World. Mind you, there's a level of sophistication and hypothesis I have no insight into with her project, but it did leave me curious about the rigor of even the graduate level program for that major.

Now, one of my close friends graduated RPTS. He's doing fine now. He's very smart. But his degree doesn't seem to have had much influence over that.

 

[Fenderputty]

To be honest, college is pretty bad for expanding knowledge and it is getting worse.Too basic, too diluted in general requirements and less of the branch you want to study, more focused on social dynamics than actual knowledge, too many stresses in homework and exams than actual learning.

I'm not contesting your comment when I say the above is a criticism of how we teach while mine was a criticism of WHY we teach.

 

[tokkun]

Actually I'd say that philosophy is perhaps the subject that people do the worst job of learning on their own. Like, with math and science it is usually pretty apparent to people who are not experts that they are not experts and you can get pretty far just by learning basic process stuff ("this is how you solve a differential equation with this form", etc.) or facts. Almost everyone who goes very wrong here goes wrong because they are actively misled by authority figures, and lots of people with little formal background in some field are nevertheless able to talk about it intelligently because it's something they've done some reading on.

With something like history there's an easily-seen knowledge gap between amateurs and experts that similarly helps people see that they have something to gain from listening to experts. People unfortunately feel like history is just memorizing names and dates, but few people try but fail to learn history and few nonexperts think they've got it all figured out (again except when misled by authority figures).

It's fields where there's not a clear right answer that can be pointed at or clear (to nonexperts) evidence of expertise where nonexperts are most likely to go badly wrong absent a structured program that communicates that they are there to learn from someone who is qualified to teach them. My sense is that even relative to other humanities people are particularly likely to think themselves competent philosophers when actually they suck at it - you even see pretty notable scientists embarrassing themselves somewhat often.

It sounds like you are saying that people who take a shallow interest in philosophy often end up with a shallow understanding. I think that's probably true. I can also agree with the broad sentiment that it is very helpful to have someone to appropriately challenge your conceptions. I'm not sure that is a convincing argument for why a degree program is necessary. You can have a debate partner or a mentor without needing to be in a degree program.

As I see it, degree programs achieve two primary goals:
1. They provide some degree of curricular standardization and ensure you have broad exposure to the most important topics in the field.
2. They provide certification that you demonstrated some level of mastery of those topics.

Now, I think the original premise I was responding to was to the effect that philosophy is a good thing to study because it improves your critical thinking skills - i.e. something to undertake for personal growth. In that sense are those facets of degree programs really needed?

If I happen to be really interested in ethics and not at all interested in epistemology, is it a problem if I only study one and not the other?

If I am studying just for personal development, is it really important for someone to independently certify that I am doing a good job?

This sort of thing is important if the degree is a precursor to a job. If I'm a Civil Engineer and never learn about shearing forces, that could be a big problem to my employer. The degree exists so the employer is confident that they are hiring someone with all of the basic skills the degree implies. Outside of a fairly narrow set of jobs (like teaching Philosophy), I don't see where that really applies for a philosophy degree.

I do doubt that philosophy courses are doing much to improve people's GRE scores. The GRE just isn't testing much that anyone learns in college. And I bet you'd see that people who complete philosophy majors also had very high SAT scores.

Sounds like we are on the same page there.

It's causal in the sense that being good at philosophy requires the same sort of analytical skill that you need for a math degree while also being pretty demanding in terms of reading comprehension and writing.

Now you lost me. You clearly just argued that it is correlation and not causation, so I don't know why you are trying to say it is causal in any sense. Just insert the word 'not' before 'causal' and I can completely agree with that statement.

 

[Zips]

Anyone else a history major? I'm pretty much going to double major in History and TV/Radio (sound production) and I'm wondering how that'll go for me.

I majored in History. Things have turned out fairly well for me, I think, with good potential moving forward, but it wasn't easy to get to where I am now.

Rack up experience and connections in areas related to jobs you're interested in and skills you need for them. If you've padded your resume nicely by the time you graduate and made good connections etc., you'll probably be fine, or better.

 

[Christopher]

There's more important qualifications to measure usefulness than stuff as mundane as jobs and money. The degrees most commonly called useless are usually the most important to humanity. That said, there are ways to make money from just about any degree. I would say follow your passion first, then follow the money.

Beyond wrong.

You make your money to be secure then you follow you passion. That's the realistic vs fantasy view

 

[br3wnor]

Every single Masters degree. Congrats, you did an extra final year, you're not better than someone who did a bachelors, and significantly worse than someone with a PhD.

Masters are for rich people who have no clue what to do with their life and too scared to leave university.

Lol this is complete bullshit.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ues-to-pay-off-but-a-masters-earns-even-more/

As is the idea that a bachelors degree can be "useless". For the vast majority of people, those with bachelors degrees are gonna earn more over their lifetime than those with just high school diplomas. Yes there are some bachelors degrees that will give you much better career prospects than others, but just getting a 4 year degree itself automatically puts you you in the top 30% of educational attainment by US adults aged 25 and older. That alone is valuable and will give you an advantage in the job market. (I personally went Associates to Bachelors to working for 3 years to getting my JD and don't regret it. I'm working full time in a job that was only attainable through having all of my degrees)

 

[Piggus]

Liberal Arts degrees can be fine. I know plenty of people in good jobs with English degrees.

This. It depends on the specific degree. I have a BS in professional writing, and I would not have my current job without it.

No degree is entirely useless, it's just that some present more and/or better opportunities than others.

 

[p2535748]

There's more important qualifications to measure usefulness than stuff as mundane as jobs and money. The degrees most commonly called useless are usually the most important to humanity. That said, there are ways to make money from just about any degree. I would say follow your passion first, then follow the money.

While I will defend liberal arts degrees forever, please don't turn around and make comments about what's most "important to humanity"

Humanity needs engineers, it needs philosophers, and it needs everything in between, classifying any of this as more or less useful to humanity is a foolish endeavor.

 

[blackjaw]

Beyond wrong.

You make your money to be secure then you follow you passion. That's the realistic vs fantasy view

Yep, nailed it.

if I followed my passion I would be surfing all day and then getting drunk and falling asleep on the beach.

That's not realistic so I make money so I can occasionally indulge my passion.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Beyond wrong.

You make your money to be secure then you follow you passion. That's the realistic vs fantasy view

And then when you're miserable from making purely pragmatic decisions you can abandon your passions in favour of drink or something because that scratches the horrible itch a lot faster.

Obviously I'm being dramatic, but in a way you're being equally idealistic. A job that you pursue purely for security reasons saps your time and motivation as sure as anything. That's why the most common or sensible advice seems to be a combination of passion and realism, not compartmentalizing or dissociating the two.

 

[Bleepey]

You don't need a MS to become an actuary.

Like I said, it really depends on the job.

Very true. I had an interview for a actuary-related role and they wanted me because of my background in epidemiology.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

To be honest, college is pretty bad for expanding knowledge and it is getting worse.Too basic, too diluted in general requirements and less of the branch you want to study, more focused on social dynamics than actual knowledge, too many stresses in homework and exams than actual learning.

I agree completely, especially with the bolded. I wrote an essay about this when I was in English; students are trained to basically memorize and regurgitate the information they learned for exams. It's counter productive for learning because we're not taught how to apply the information we are taught at all. Teachers who constantly give Hw are also annoying because they often give you work like they're the only professor you have.

I majored in History. Things have turned out fairly well for me, I think, with good potential moving forward, but it wasn't easy to get to where I am now.

Rack up experience and connections in areas related to jobs you're interested in and skills you need for them. If you've padded your resume nicely by the time you graduate and made good connections etc., you'll probably be fine, or better.

Thanks for the encouragement. I actually haven't declared yet since I'm at 57 credits and I need 61 to declare but it was difficult picking a major I wanted to do.

 

[IrishNinja]

I hire entry level analysts for our team. I always pick the resumes of philosophy majors because along with econ majors they are the only ones who can consistently make it through the case studies.

ah, didn't know that! pretty cool

Beyond wrong.

You make your money to be secure then you follow you passion. That's the realistic vs fantasy view

And then when you're miserable from making purely pragmatic decisions you can abandon your passions in favour of drink or something because that scratches the horrible itch a lot faster.

Obviously I'm being dramatic, but in a way you're being equally idealistic. A job that you pursue purely for security reasons saps your time and motivation as sure as anything. That's why the most common or sensible advice seems to be a combination of passion and realism, not compartmentalizing or dissociating the two.

+1 - OP sounds like the kinda person who's eager to settle for whatever, spend most of their life doing something they all but loathe, and justify it this way...rather than take a chance & get by with less to do something you love. i've been at it nearly a decade now, and am finally in the process of my dream job..here's to hoping!

the worst part is, 9 times out of 10, those dudes that take the "realistic" view spend their time complaining about it, like it was someone else's decision - just my experience.

 

[Oblivion]

History here. Working on my B.A.. Have no idea what the hell I'm going to do with just that, but I wouldn't say it's "useless". If nothing else, it's helped me become a better writer (though one might not always get that impression if you see my posts here on gaf). I'd be willing to get my master's if I'm able to get into my university's graduate program, as it would only be one extra year of study, which is pretty sweet. If I got that, I'd try to apply for a professorship at a community college. Would be more than thrilled if that happened.