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[Holy Order Sol]

Capitalism rewards hard work.

lmao

 

[Dunki]

Capitalism in theory is fantastic but in reality there are several major issues with it.

Example: Even if the Company is not greedy and let their workers also benefit from their Profits there is still the government who takes a lot of income from you. Example If you are single with no children in Germany its 40-45% taxes.

So people do not even have the ability to spend money. Normally Capitalism means exponential grow for everyone. If this were the case it would be a fantastic system.

This is also a reason why Germany more and more people's status is becoming poor while Germany the economy in Germany is growing and growing.

 

[JordanN]

lmao

What other economic system rewards me for working extra hours, meeting consumer demand, saving my money, and either start my own company or apply for a higher paying job?

Capitalism in theory is fantastic but in reality there are several major issues with it.

Example: Even if the Company is not greedy and let their workers also benefit from their Profits there is still the government who takes a lot of income from you. Example If you are single with no children in Germany its 40-45% taxes.

So people do not even have the ability to spend money. Normally Capitalism means exponential grow for everyone. If this were the case it would be a fantastic system.

This is also a reason why Germany more and more people's status is becoming poor while Germany the economy in Germany is growing and growing.

Why not just cut taxes? If you're in a democracy, you can vote for that.

 

[Dunki]

What other economic system rewards me for working extra hours, meeting consumer demand, saving my money, and either start my own company or apply for a higher paying job?



Why not just cut taxes? If you're in a democracy, you can vote for that.

I understand the need for taxes and I agree with that since we also havehealthcare etc. but half of your income is way too much.. And this counts double when last year your gov made 100 BILLION +

Also there is no party that wants to cut taxes in a meaningful way Instead they want rich people to pay more. Like this is helping the poor ones...

 

[Vicetrailia]

I understand the need for taxes and I agree with that since we also havehealthcare etc. but half of your income is way too much.. And this counts double when last year your gov made 100 BILLION +

Also there is no party that wants to cut taxes in a meaningful way Instead they want rich people to pay more. Like this is helping the poor ones...

Germany helps the poor far more than in say, the United States. It shows up in the forms of school funding, or direct stuff like housing assistance. If you're pregnant and poor you are at far less health and financial risk in Germany than in the United States. But yeah taxes for those without dependents should be a bit lower.

 

[sans_pants]

Capitalism rewards hard work.
If you work harder, you earn more money. If customers are dissatisfied with a product, they have the option of supporting another company to meet their needs and demands.

Socialism/Communism sound nice in theory but it never works in practice. There is no incentive to work hard because you're guaranteed money from the government. But wait! Where does the government get this money from? Off the backs of the hard working/rich people who ultimately get shot in the head chased out from a Socialist society. Without the rich, you only have the lazy and corrupt left. And as a result, productivity goes into free fall and shortages start running rampant. Government cannot predict the demand of its citizens who will always want more while working less, and you start running into famines.

.....

The first part is pretty lol, but the second is a misread of history.

Everyone that isn't rich is lazy and corrupt?

Communism has run into shortages due to bad planning in agrarian economies, not "laziness"

 

[JordanN]

The first part is pretty lol, but the second is a misread of history.

Everyone that isn't rich is lazy and corrupt?

Rich is a status symbol. Of course, people can become lazy or corrupt when they're rich but amassing all that wealth has to come from somewhere. Someone at one point worked for it.

Communism has run into shortages due to bad planning in agrarian economies, not "laziness"

Wonder why is that? Government robs private farmers of their property and is then put to the task of feeding people. But every time they try, they end in famine or extreme shortages. It's almost like those in government realize they can't get people to work harder for them, so they just hoard the food and leave the rest of the populace to starve.

Strangely, in capitalist societies we don't see mass starvation. It's almost like all that hard work needed to keep up with supply and demand ensures no one goes hungry....

 

[sans_pants]

Rich is a status symbol. Of course, people can become lazy or corrupt when they're rich but amassing all that wealth has to come from somewhere. Someone at one point worked for it.

Not really but your original horrible point is still in there. If you aren't rich you must be lazy. Can you explain why you yourself aren't rich?



Wonder why is that? Government robs private farmers of their property and is then put to the task of feeding people. But every time they try, they end in famine or extreme shortages. It's almost like those in government realize they can't get people to work harder for them, so they just hoard the food and leave the rest of the populace to starve.

Strangely, in capitalist societies we don't see mass starvation. It's almost like all that hard work needed to keep up with supply and demand ensures no one goes hungry....[/QUOTE]

Well it's actually from a complex set of problems. You know we need less and less people to run farms now, right?

I only know about Soviet History but their leadership didn't know what they were doing and diverted most of their workforce to try and play industrialization catchup

 

[JordanN]

Not really but your original horrible point is still in there. If you aren't rich you must be lazy. Can you explain why you yourself aren't rich?

It mostly applies to Socialist societies.
The government hands you a blank cheque for just showing up. Why would anyone need to work harder?

Maybe they want to make a little extra wealth? Oh wait, can't do that. Government will kill you for being bourgeois.

Or I guess you could work harder and accept your unpaid overtime because you love the state so much. Oh wait, now everyone sees you're doing the work for them and they have even less incentive to care!

Well it's actually from a complex set of problems. You know we need less and less people to run farms now, right?

Thanks to innovation coming from who again? Capitalism.

I only know about Soviet History but their leadership didn't know what they were doing and diverted most of their workforce to try and play industrialization catchup

Love that state government not having their priorities in order. Even when it meant the literal deaths of millions just so they could build a car.

 

[Xenobureido]

Rich is a status symbol. Of course, people can become lazy or corrupt when they're rich but amassing all that wealth has to come from somewhere. Someone at one point worked for it.

Someone at some point made a decision that turned out to be a lucky one. Hard work *can* result in wealth. But so can being lazy.

 

[JordanN]

Someone at some point made a decision that turned out to be a lucky one. Hard work *can* result in wealth. But so can being lazy.

Even the simplest ideas still require a bit of thought and hardwork to pull it off.

I could have an idea about putting stickers on your face that make me insanely rich. Even if it sounds simple yet become stupidly popular, I still have to pull all the right strings to ensure I meet the demand of my customers who are willing to pay me for it.

 

[Ide88]

Capitalism rewards hard work.
If you work harder, you earn more money. If customers are dissatisfied with a product, they have the option of supporting another company to meet their needs and demands.

Socialism/Communism sound nice in theory but it never works in practice. There is no incentive to work hard because you're guaranteed money from the government. But wait! Where does the government get this money from? Off the backs of the hard working/rich people who ultimately get shot in the head chased out from a Socialist society. Without the rich, you only have the lazy and corrupt left. And as a result, productivity goes into free fall and shortages start running rampant. Government cannot predict the demand of its citizens who will always want more while working less, and you start running into famines.

.....

Also, I like Capitalism because I actually own my stuff. If a country was truly communist, I could break into your house and take all your property because it "belongs to the people".

Your post is filled with misconceptions and ignorance.
If you work hard your boss makes more money under Capitalism. With Socialism you would get the full value of your work, there will be no lazy owner mooching off all your hard work.

Also since you seem to think Socialism sounds good in theory, please explain to me what you think sounds good about it.

For the incentive argument.

"How are people motivated or incentivised under communism? Who would sweep the floors or do dangerous jobs?
Answer: Work will be shared
In modern-day Japan, schoolchildren are often tasked with cleaning their own school. There is no reason why the same principle cannot be generalized to all kinds of environments and jobs and applied in socialism/communism. There would be no dedicated cleaners, and workers might take a few hours out of every week to collectively clean their own work environment.

Answer: Technology and full employment
Under capitalism, improvements in productivity are used to "make more things" because capitalism prioritizes profit and growth over human happiness and well-being. Under communism, new technology like automation and other improvements in productivity will be used to shorten working hours and improve working conditions instead. Since capitalism is focused on profit over human well-being, things like workplace safety, workplace cleanliness, worker satisfaction, worker enjoyment, and the conditions of workers and work in general, all take a back seat.

Under capitalism, the unemployed ("the reserve army of labour") are a necessary component of the economy. Under socialism and communism, with rational economic planning, there will be no unemployment. This means that the same amount of work can be shared between a larger amount of people.

Answer: Non-monetary benefits
In the socialist Soviet Union, workers in dangerous jobs were given shorter working hours, and more holidays. From the chapter "Labour" in the book The Soviet Union: Facts, Descriptions, Statistics by the Soviet Union Information Bureau, published in 1929:

The length of the normal working day, which was 10 hours before the war, was reduced to 8 hours at the beginning of the Soviet régime, and for dangerous occupations to 6 hours. During 1926-27 the working day averaged 7.5 hours.

During the year there are fourteen legal holidays for workers. In addition each worker has a two weeks' vacation with pay, and in dangerous or heavy vocations an additional two weeks is allowed. In 146 of the dangerous trades a shorter working day is in effect.

In a communist society, workers in undesirable or dangerous professions might take shorter working hours and more holidays."


"There is no incentive to work hard because you're guaranteed money from the government."
Your political education must be lacking if you think Socialism/Communism is taxes and when the government does stuff. I hope you also don't think Obama is a Marxist lol.

Also there's a difference between personal and private property. The communists aren't going to take your toothbrush.

 

[Ide88]

I understand the need for taxes and I agree with that since we also havehealthcare etc. but half of your income is way too much.. And this counts double when last year your gov made 100 BILLION +

Also there is no party that wants to cut taxes in a meaningful way Instead they want rich people to pay more. Like this is helping the poor ones...

The amount your employer steals from your hard work is far greater than the taxes you pay.

 

[JordanN]

Also since you seem to think Socialism sounds good in theory, please explain to me what you think sounds good about it.

If humans were perfect creatures, a socio-economic system built on unity would be nice.
But humans are not perfect, and I would never trust my life in the hands of the government.

"How are people motivated or incentivised under communism? Who would sweep the floors or do dangerous jobs?
Answer: Work will be shared

Technically, this already exists under Capitalism. In fact, I haven't met a Mcdonalds/fast food worker who also wasn't trained in cleaning duties while still having to cook/take orders.

But with Capitalism, the incentive to do all those activities exist. You are either compensated for going above and beyond, or your personal responsibility translates into sales (i.e a well clean restaurant attracts more customers then a dirty and run down one).

Now going back to when I said "if humans were perfect". If humans were perfect, they would do all the cleaning in a communist society. But since we're not, no one has to. And if the government doesn't hire janitors, it gets even worse. In capitalism, professional cleaning services exist.

Since capitalism is focused on profit over human well-being, things like workplace safety, workplace cleanliness, worker satisfaction, worker enjoyment, and the conditions of workers and work in general, all take a back seat.

Again, if humans were perfect, this would be true.

Look at Chernobyl and the government sent firefighters in without warning them about the radiation. Speaking of Chernobyl, how did that happen too?

Also there's a difference between personal and private property. The communists aren't going to take your toothbrush.

But they can take the farms away and kill anyone who attempts to own more food than the next person.

 

[Ide88]

If humans were perfect creatures, a socio-economic system built on unity would be nice.
But humans are not perfect, and I would never trust my life in the hands of the government.



Technically, this already exists under Capitalism. In fact, I haven't met a Mcdonalds/fast food worker who also wasn't trained in cleaning duties while still having to cook/take orders.

But with Capitalism, the incentive to do all those activities exist. You are either compensated for going above and beyond, or your personal responsibility translates into sales (i.e a well clean restaurant attracts more customers then a dirty and run down one).

Now going back to when I said "if humans were perfect". If humans were perfect, they would do all the cleaning in a communist society. But since we're not, no one has to. And if the government doesn't hire janitors, it gets even worse. In capitalism, professional cleaning services exist.



Again, if humans were perfect, this would be true.

Look at Chernobyl and the government sent firefighters in without warning them about the radiation. Speaking of Chernobyl, how did that happen too?




But they can take the farms away and kill anyone who attempts to own more food than the next person.

You're using human nature (which is an idealist concept) to critique something you foolishly think is an ideal concept.

 

[JordanN]

You're using human nature (which is an idealist concept) to critique something you foolishly think is an ideal concept.

I'm not sure what answer you're looking for then.

You can't separate communism from human nature. The state having a complete monopoly is ripe for disaster, because the greedy people in power ruins everything.

You might say "but Capitalists are greedy too!". Yeah, but my life isn't owned by them. I can freely choose to support any company I want. It's a better system that hasn't failed yet.

 

[Ide88]

I'm not sure what answer you're looking for then.

You can't separate communism from human nature. The state having a complete monopoly is ripe for disaster, when the people in charge are greedy.

You might say "but Capitalists are greedy too!". Yeah, but my life isn't owned by them. I can freely choose to support any company I want. It's a better system that hasn't failed yet.

I'm saying human nature is a bad argument and it's an idealist concept which you are using to criticizing something you believe is an idealist concept.

"To look at people in capitalist society and conclude that human nature is egoism, is like looking at people in a factory where pollution is destroying their lungs and saying that it is human nature to cough." - Andrew Collier, Marx: A Beginner’s Guide


"In capitalism, your level of success is a function of your will to power. If you are more willing to put down others in competition, then you will be able to amass more wealth. It should not come as a surprise that in a system that rewards the amassing of power, people try to amass power, and they are required to do so to certain extents to survive. Parents and teacher teach children to be competitive in preparation for the capitalist world. Yet, when people exhibit competitive behavior where the system requires it and after having been taught that from an early age, reactionaries point to it as evidence that humans are naturally competitive.

Capitalism derives its "efficiency" from the competitive capacities that people have. However, these capacities vary as capacity for empathy varies. Those who are less empathetic tend to be more competitive and thus rise to positions of power. This is why you see CEOs exhibiting psychopathic characteristics. We have a system that naturally allows people on the verge of psychopathy to make decisions that affect hundreds of thousands of people. It makes use of the worst apects of the human condition for productivity and progress, which inevitably encounters the contradictions upon which it is predicated.

Conversely, communism harnesses the creative will that people have to contribute to the community, in which decisions are made by the members of the community. This kind of communal collaboration is a more apparently natural than competitive ambition. The mark of humans as a more advanced species than our primate relatives is our collaborative, social character. There's a book called "Hierarchy in the Forest" by Christopher Boehm that explains how chimpanzees form themselves into hierarchies with an "alpha male" at the top. It also explains how the human resistance to domination and hierarchy are key factors that drove the evolutionary emergence of language, kinship, social organization, and conciousness, which is widely argued by paleoanthropologists.

It is argued that capitalism should continue because it has been responsible for much progress since the dawn of modern civilization, but many of those innovations have been for the benefit of a few and the disenfranchisment of many. Yes, the Cold War drove many advancements in aeronautics and education, but its purpose was to out-science and out-educate, and the multitude of terrors that came as a result of the Cold War are lingering haunting the world still. Should capitalism still be an engine for scientific progress (social progress is out of the question by the very nature of capitalism's being individualistic) if it produces similar terrors? There has been scientific progress (e.g. International Space Station and CERN) by a global and communal effort done purely for the pursuit of knowledge, which does not yield an individual tangible benefit, but drives our society forward as a whole.

Progress can be achieved for the sake of progress, and thus for the benefit of many, especially when the many are the authors of that progress. To claim that capitalism should continue because it works in accordance with human nature shows a willingness to allow selfish hunger for power to prevail, and an ignorance to our collaborative creative capabilities as humans. This is why it is laughable"

 

[JordanN]

I'm saying human nature is a bad argument and it's an idealist concept which you are using to criticizing something you believe is an idealist concept.

Ok. Even if I remove human nature, you still have the problem of dictators always taking control of communist countries and oppressing everyone below them.


Edit: The rest of your post is copy-paste from reddit. :/

https://www.reddit.com/r/communism1...man_nature_such_a_laughable_argument/cu371l6/

 

[Blood Borne]

Ok. Even if I remove human nature, you still have the problem of dictators always taking control of communist countries and oppressing everyone below them.


Edit: The rest of your post is copy-paste from reddit. :/

https://www.reddit.com/r/communism1...man_nature_such_a_laughable_argument/cu371l6/

I admire your patience and restraint. Arguing with commies is not easy task

 

[JordanN]

I personally find it hilarious. 😂😂😂

You can't defend communism without acknowledging all the horrors committed by them. From there, it's doing backflips every time it's failed, it's entertainment you can't get anywhere else! 😂

 

[Xenobureido]

I personally find it hilarious. 😂😂😂

You can't defend communism without acknowledging all the horrors committed by them. From there, it's doing backflips every time it's failed, it's entertainment you can't get anywhere else! 😂

There's no need to defend communism. It's a great concept that has failed to work in praxis as of yet. But once could argue that's because it was always accompanied by ideologies that have nothing to do with communism. Communism doesn't need a Mao who's treated like a living god.

Also, we were talking about socialism, not communism. If you think a socialist western country in the year 2017 would kill farmers or send firefighters to die, you're just being dishonest.

 

[AmaiMask]

I considered myself Liberal for years and even voted for Obama twice along with Sanders during the primaries. However, watching Sanders get absolutely cheated, and then watching him bend a knee to SJWs and Hillary honestly made me lose my mind a bit. I voted Trump and have since adapted a rather extreme anti-SJW attitude. I don't consider myself right-wing and don't even fully agree with many right-wing policies. However, above all else I despise SJWs and the PC culture in general. Also as a gamer I'm rather pissed off at having identity politics shoved into so many different companies and games.

I used to love playing WoW, but even Blizzard's gone full SJW. They had a "Diversity is our strength" panel during one of their game events. What the hell does that even have to do with gaming? Virtue signaling is pretty terrible and needs to stop. I'm more than willing to vote Democrat again, but the SJWs need to be purged from the party completely.

 

[Blood Borne]

I considered myself Liberal for years and even voted for Obama twice along with Sanders during the primaries. However, watching Sanders get absolutely cheated, and then watching him bend a knee to SJWs and Hillary honestly made me lose my mind a bit. I voted Trump and have since adapted a rather extreme anti-SJW attitude. I don't consider myself right-wing and don't even fully agree with many right-wing policies. However, above all else I despise SJWs and the PC culture in general. Also as a gamer I'm rather pissed off at having identity politics shoved into so many different companies and games.

I used to love playing WoW, but even Blizzard's gone full SJW. They had a "Diversity is our strength" panel during one of their game events. What the hell does that even have to do with gaming? Virtue signaling is pretty terrible and needs to stop. I'm more than willing to vote Democrat again, but the SJWs need to be purged from the party completely.

Most people do and it's one of the reasons why Trump won. Lots of people who always voted left and voted twice for Obama, voted for Trump just because of how batshit crazy the left has become.

I personally find it hilarious. 😂😂😂

You can't defend communism without acknowledging all the horrors committed by them. From there, it's doing backflips every time it's failed, it's entertainment you can't get anywhere else! 😂

Absolutely. It's fun watching them engage in Olympic-tier mental gymnastics to defend/justify communism. Underneath their verbosity, it's still the same tired excuse, "it wasn't really communism", "it wasn't done properly". What they're truly trying to say is "if I was the communist dictator, it would've have worked and the utopia will be fully realised".

 

[JordanN]

There's no need to defend communism. It's a great concept that has failed to work in praxis as of yet. But once could argue that's because it was always accompanied by ideologies that have nothing to do with communism. Communism doesn't need a Mao who's treated like a living god.

But nothing about communism says anything against it. That's the point. These dictators take over because the idea of a classless society is broken. Humans are greedy and will always want more.

You remove Mao and the results are still the same. Tienanmen Square still happened long after Mao died. Socialism just wont work.

Also, we were talking about socialism, not communism. If you think a socialist western country in the year 2017 would kill farmers or send firefighters to die, you're just being dishonest.

Why should I trust a fringe ideology to not do that?

The problem with Socialism is you're putting your entire life in the hands of the government. The same government that has no problem lying to people on a daily basis and pocketing from taxes.

You give these people complete power over you, you essentially become a slave or pawn to them.

 

[AmaiMask]

Most people do and it's one of the reasons why Trump won. Lots of people who always voted left and voted twice for Obama, voted for Trump just because of how batshit crazy the left has become.

I legitimately prayed to God that Trump would win because I knew immediately watching him in action that he was the key to turning this countries culture away from SJW hands and being PC. I honestly don't give a damn about Trump's policies or if he does a good job. The only reason I want him there is to trigger SJWs and punish them severely. Trump is there to destroy PC culture, and he leads by example by being the most rude, disrespectful, toxic, nonresidential person in the history of this country.

I think Trump is the best President we could have asked for during these time, there's way too many Snowflakes who don't seem to know their place and are too comfortable being absolute idiots. It's time to change that.

 

[sans_pants]

I legitimately prayed to God that Trump would win because I knew immediately watching him in action that he was the key to turning this countries culture away from SJW hands and being PC. I honestly don't give a damn about Trump's policies or if he does a good job. The only reason I want him there is to trigger SJWs and punish them severely. Trump is there to destroy PC culture, and he leads by example by being the most rude, disrespectful, toxic, nonresidential person in the history of this country.

I think Trump is the best President we could have asked for during these time, there's way too many Snowflakes who don't seem to know their place and are too comfortable being absolute idiots. It's time to change that.

welcome to psychopathy

 

[AmaiMask]

welcome to psychopathy

Not Psychopaths, Anti-SJW.

Trump is pretty much the leader of the Anti-SJW movement.

 

[sans_pants]

Not Psychopaths, Anti-SJW.

Trump is pretty much the leader of the Anti-SJW movement.

you wanted a shitty president to "trigger" people you disagree with politically


you're an insane person

 

[AmaiMask]

you wanted a shitty president to "trigger" people you disagree with politically


you're an insane person

I'm perfectly sane, just fed up with SJWs and their bullshit is all. I'm all there mentally, I assure you. I've thought this out very carefully and am rather pleased with the results. The fact that Neogaf is in the state it currently is, and the hatred its gotten because of the SJWs that ran the site was music to my ears.

I'd say I'm actually the sane one and the SJWs are the insane ones.

 

[McDuck]

Right-leaning gay dude here.

 

[Vicetrailia]

you wanted a shitty president to "trigger" people you disagree with politically


you're an insane person

Some people just want to sew division and watch it all burn for some crazy reason.

Can you explain why GAR-OU.

Edit:

That's all there is to it GAR?

 

[sans_pants]

I'm perfectly sane, just fed up with SJWs and their bullshit is all. I'm all there mentally, I assure you. I've thought this out very carefully and am rather pleased with the results. The fact that Neogaf is in the state it currently is, and the hatred its gotten because of the SJWs that ran the site was music to my ears.

I'd say I'm actually the sane one and the SJWs are the insane ones.

of course you are

 

[AmaiMask]

Some people just want to sew division and watch it all burn for some crazy reason.

Can you explain why GAR-OU.

Edit:

That's all there is to it GAR?

If you're speaking about me I don't want to "sew division and watch it all burn", I just want crush SJWs and remove their influence from this country. I think SJWs are actually the reason for the division in the first place. They're the ones constantly race baiting and crying about the various wrong and injustices of this country, always blowing things out of proportion and getting people riled up. It's actually because of SJWs and their fierce anti-white attitude that so many whites who'd voted for Obama, including many white women, voted for Trump.

People didn't suddenly become more racist, they were forced to choose sides because of SJW insanity. SJWs are the ones who are trying to cause division and burn the very order of this country down and replace it with absolute nonsense.

 

[Vicetrailia]

If you're speaking about me I don't want to "sew division and watch it all burn", I just want crush SJWs and remove their influence from this country. I think SJWs are actually the reason for the division in the first place. They're the ones constantly race baiting and crying about the various wrong and injustices of this country, always blowing things out of proportion and getting people riled up. It's actually because of SJWs and their fierce anti-white attitude that so many whites who'd voted for Obama, including many white women, voted for Trump.

People didn't suddenly become more racist, they were forced to choose sides because of SJW insanity. SJWs are the ones who are trying to cause division and burn the very order of this country down and replace it with absolute nonsense.

So I'm either guessing that you don't understand the origin of any given SJW cause, or that you have a direct problem with poc, feminists and lgbtq. But I'm thinking that one feeds another.

 

[AmaiMask]

So I'm either guessing that you don't understand the origin of any given SJW cause, or that you have a direct problem with poc, feminists and lgbtq. But I'm thinking that one feeds another.

You say I have a problem with PoC, feminists, and the lgbtq community likely because you think I'm white, yes? What if I told you I'm actually black? Not only that, I'm not even an Uncle Tom. Like I said, I considered myself liberal for years and voted Obama twice and Sanders.

I enjoy going head to head with SJWs because I'm pretty much their worst enemy. Their labels completely fail to stick to me. You can't call me a racist Nazi, you can only call me an Anti-SJW.

 

[JordanN]

It's easier and less combative to use the term "far-leftist" to describe someone who is hyper vocal about racial and gender issues than "SJW" which has its origins in gamergate.

And I say this as someone who has been accused of being alt-right, even though I'm still heavily in favor of diversity and anti-racist.

Most centrists/libertarians understand society discriminates but we don't go on crusades/witchhunts to shame everyone about it. That's what far-leftists/communists do.

 

[AmaiMask]

It's easier and less combative to use the term "far-leftist" to describe someone who is hyper vocal about racial and gender issues then "SJW" which has its origins in gamergate.

And I say this as someone who has been accused of being alt-right, even though I'm still heavily in favor of diversity and anti-racist.

The entire point is to be combative as possible, hence the reason I use the term SJW. If you feel the need to virtue signal in anyway in 2017 you're an SJW. I don't want to listen to your nonsense if you're virtue signalling and will go out of my way to call you out on it. And I'm a gamer who sides with the gamergaters as well, and I think Anita and females that complain about female perception in games are incredibly toxic themselves and solve no issues by voicing their grievances. As a person of color I don't give a damn about being represented in a game.

All I care about is playing a good game, and the vast majority of the times SJWs that get their sway in games turn it into complete shit. Japan and non-SJWs companies know how to put minorities, gays, and women into games without turning it political. A JRPG with a gay character, a Nintendo game featuring a female lead like Samus, Zelda, Peach, or RockStar games making a game featuring black people never causes controversy because there's no agenda. However, games like Horizon Zero Dawn, Mafia 3, Watchdogs 2, and Wolfenstein 2 always cause controversy because SJWs don't know how to put minorities, women, and gays in games without spreading their political bullshit.

SJWs influence needs to be removed both from American mainstream culture and the gaming industry.

 

[Blood Borne]

It's easier and less combative to use the term "far-leftist" to describe someone who is hyper vocal about racial and gender issues then "SJW" which has its origins in gamergate.

And I say this as someone who has been accused of being alt-right, even though I'm still heavily in favor of diversity and anti-racist.

Most centrists/libertarians understand society discriminates but we don't go on crusades/witchhunts to shame everyone about it. That's what far-leftists/communists do.

That's because they've gone so far left that all non leftists are automatically branded as racist sexist xenophobe that hates the poor. In addition to that, extra names are given to you based on your skin/gender. White people are called alt right white supremacist nazi. Blacks are called uncle tom/coon. Women are suffering from internalised misogyny.


I also agree on the witch hunt point. I'm black and Ive experienced discrimination, yet I don't go on counter productive rabbid virtue signalling crusades.

 

[JordanN]

The entire point is to be combative as possible, hence the reason I use the term SJW. If you feel the need to virtue signal in anyway in 2017 you're an SJW. I don't want to listen to your nonsense if you're virtue signalling and will go out of my way to call you out on it. And I'm a gamer who sides with the gamergaters as well, and I think Anita and females that complain about female perception in games are incredibly toxic themselves and solve no issues by voicing their grievances. As a person of color I don't give a damn about being represented in a game.

All I care about is playing a good game, and the vast majority of the times SJWs that get their sway in games turn it into complete shit. Japan and non-SJWs companies know how to put minorities, gays, and women into games without turning it political. A JRPG with a gay character, a Nintendo game featuring a female lead like Samus, Zelda, Peach, or RockStar games making a game featuring black people never causes controversy because there's no agenda. However, games like Horizon Zero Dawn, Mafia 3, Watchdogs 2, and Wolfenstein 2 always cause controversy because SJWs don't know how to put minorities, women, and gays in games without spreading their political bullshit.

SJWs influence needs to be removed both from American mainstream culture and the gaming industry.

Let the free market sort itself out.

At the end of the day, all game publishers are out to make a profit. That means catering/not catering to certain voices. If they want to make games like Horizon ZD or Mafia 3 that's their business. Their success is clearly determined by enough people who buy into them.

I've said before the Neogaf purge that I actually prefer game studios making the games they want. So my stance on this has always been consistent.

If you make a game and it gets criticized because the protagonist is white male straight etc, you have a choice of releasing it and ignore the backlash, or make the changes and gamble with the audience.

If there are no games that do that, you can create your own game studio and make games the way you want. There is no government force out there that says "you can't make games unless it's diverse!".

 

[Xenobureido]

It's easier and less combative to use the term "far-leftist" to describe someone who is hyper vocal about racial and gender issues than "SJW" which has its origins in gamergate.

"SJW" is a fine term fitting the people it describes. It's not an insult, although those that it applies to judge it an insult because it makes them feel uncomfortable. I'd also like to add that gamergate is not the evil hate movement that some people like to believe. I did so, too, then I actually informed myself.

Having said all that: GAR-OU's postings are written in.such over-the-top language, with such a lack of nuance that it's hard to take him seriously. He reads as either a plump extremist or a troll who's trying to stir up things here.

 

[Autoignition]

I enjoy going head to head with SJWs because I'm pretty much their worst enemy. Their labels completely fail to stick to me. You can't call me a racist Nazi, you can only call me an Anti-SJW.

You sound like you have a lot of growing up to do.

 

[Dunki]

It's easier and less combative to use the term "far-leftist" to describe someone who is hyper vocal about racial and gender issues than "SJW" which has its origins in gamergate.

And I say this as someone who has been accused of being alt-right, even though I'm still heavily in favor of diversity and anti-racist.

Most centrists/libertarians understand society discriminates but we don't go on crusades/witchhunts to shame everyone about it. That's what far-leftists/communists do.

Wrong. SJW hjas not its origns in gamergate. According to know your meme. The first one they know if was from a blog in 2009.

Blogspot blog Social Justice Warriors: Do Not Engage,[2] launched on November 6th, 2009, which identifies SJWs as people who “rage, mob and dox in the belief that promoting identitarianism will make a better world.”

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/social-justice-warrior

Which originated from the term Keyboard Warrior from 2006.

 

[AmaiMask]

Let the free market sort itself out.

At the end of the day, all game publishers are out to make a profit. That means catering/not catering to certain voices. If they want to make games like Horizon ZD or Mafia 3 that's their business. Their success is clearly determined by enough people who buy into them.

I've said before the Neogaf purge that I actually prefer game studios making the games they want. So my stance on this has always been consistent.

If you make a game and it gets criticized because the protagonist is white male straight etc, you have a choice of releasing it and ignore the backlash, or make the changes and gamble with the audience.

If there are no games that do that, you can create your own game studio and make games the way you want. There is no government force out there that says "you can't make games unless it's diverse!".

Absolutely, companies have every right to listen to and do whatever they want at the end of the day. However, Anti-SJWs have had enough with SJWs being the only ones speaking out and being heard. Companies are going to start hearing from us anti-SJWs who'll encourage and reward them for completely disregarding SJWs and just making the game without a need to pander to the "diversity" and "inclusion" crowd. Fuck diversity and inclusion, just make a good fucking game, period.

"SJW" is a fine term fitting the people it describes. It's not an insult, although those that it applies to judge it an insult because it makes them feel uncomfortable. I'd also like to add that gamergate is not the evil hate movement that some people like to believe. I did so, too, then I actually informed myself.

Having said all that: GAR-OU's postings are written in.such over-the-top language, with such a lack of nuance that it's hard to take him seriously. He reads as either a plump extremist or a troll who's trying to stir up things here.

There's a reason I post the way I do, and I do this in all the sites I go to. Trump proved that the best way to deal with SJWs and Snowflakes is to be as bombastic and unapologetic as possible. Countless times SJWs and Snowflakes cried about how mean, racist, and sexist Trump was being. At all times Trump laughed at them all and doubled down, proceeding to crush all his opposition, even the fucking POPE of all people who had to back down and apologize for his words against Trump.

The only way to deal with SJWs and Snowflakes is to confront them and be merciless, showing absolutely no remorse. It won Trump the Presidency and will give Anti-SJWs the victory of SJWs and Snowflakes.

 

[Xenobureido]

Regarding the thread title I'd just like to add that I think Trump is a somewhat dangerous idiot.

 

[Autoignition]

Absolutely, companies have every right to listen to and do whatever they want at the end of the day. However, Anti-SJWs have had enough with SJWs being the only ones speaking out and being heard. Companies are going to start hearing from us anti-SJWs who'll encourage and reward them for completely disregarding SJWs and just making the game without a need to pander to the "diversity" and "inclusion" crowd. Fuck diversity and inclusion, just make a good fucking game, period.

There's a reason I post the way I do, and I do this in all the sites I go to. Trump proved that the best way to deal with SJWs and Snowflakes is to be as bombastic and unapologetic as possible. Countless times SJWs and Snowflakes cried about how mean, racist, and sexist Trump was being. At all times Trump laughed at them all and doubled down, proceeding to crush all his opposition, even the fucking POPE of all people who had to back down and apologize for his words against Trump.

The only way to deal with SJWs and Snowflakes is to confront them and be merciless, showing absolutely no remorse. It won Trump the Presidency and will give Anti-SJWs the victory of SJWs and Snowflakes.

The irony of you calling people "Snowflakes" while not realizing how fragile and sensitive and self-centered you are is amazing. I'll give thanks for that on this Thanksgiving.

Also, why do you automatically assume that a game can either be inclusive OR good? Why can't games be both?

 

[AmaiMask]

The irony of you calling people "Snowflakes" while not realizing how fragile and sensitive and self-centered you are is amazing. I'll give thanks for that on this Thanksgiving.

Also, why do you automatically assume that a game can either be inclusive OR good? Why can't games be both?

The key difference between myself and SJWs is that I was completely neutral and actually somewhat on their side prior to them kicking their bullshit into overdrive the past year and causing myself and many others to choose sides. I'm not this way because I want to be, I'm this way because I haven no choice. SJWs have made it a point to move forward with their agenda no matter what. You're either with them or against them, so I've made my stance and taken up arms against them.

SJWs are the ones who started this war, myself and all other Anti-SJWs are merely defending ourselves. We aren't the ones calling everything problematic, toxic, racist, sexist, and coming up with a million different genders and attacking people for not remembering it. SJWs have spread their cancerous nonsense way too far, and now it's time for some chemotherapy.

Edit: And I've given you examples of games, and every last one of the SJW games I listed are objectively shit without question. You cannot have identity politics in a game and have it be anything but shit.

 

[Autoignition]

The key difference between myself and SJWs is that I was completely neutral and actually somewhat on their side prior to them kicking their bullshit into overdrive the past year and causing myself and many others to choose sides. I'm not this way because I want to be, I'm this way because I haven no choice. SJWs have made it a point to move forward with their agenda no matter way. You're either with them or against them, so I've made my stance and taken up arms against them.

SJWs are the ones who started this war, myself and all other Anti-SJWs are merely defending ourselves. We aren't the ones calling everything problematic, toxic, racist, sexist, and coming up with a million different genders and attacking people for not remembering it. SJWs have spread their cancerous nonsense way too far, and not it's time for some chemotherapy.

LOL do you think people are just born SJWs? Everyone has their breaking point before they rally loudly to a cause. They just fell on a different side of the spectrum than you. It doesn't make their anger less righteous or genuine than yours. People are angry about injustices in our society and they're taking it to eye-rolling extremes; you're angry about people being angry at injustice and you're willing to throw away basic civil liberties to spite them.

Pull your head out of your ass and deflate your ego a little bit. Gain a little perspective here. No one outside your immediate friends and family knows you, or of you, so nobody is "at war" with you. If you blinked out of existence tomorrow, your anti-SJW crusader friends wouldn't even notice. The SJWs would notice even less. You're nothing more than a child in a room full of other children trying to scream the loudest.

I hate the extreme far left, too, but I'm not at all willing to throw away the human rights of my neighbors by supporting a president who wants to strip net neutrality, demolish our right to a free press, and throw people in jail just for the fun of it -- all for the sake of spiting people who irritate me. Why? Because I am an adult and I realize that politics is not just about me and what I want. There are things in this world bigger than my petty annoyances with people who want to claim they're sapiosexual or whatever the fuck.

And to address your edit, that's a problem with shitty corporate oversight, not with people wanting more diversity in game casts.

 

[AmaiMask]

LOL do you think people are just born SJWs? Everyone has their breaking point before they rally loudly to a cause. They just fell on a different side of the spectrum than you. It doesn't make their anger less righteous or genuine than yours. People are angry about injustices in our society and they're taking it to eye-rolling extremes; you're angry about people being angry at injustice and you're willing to throw away basic civil liberties to spite them.

Pull your head out of your ass and deflate your ego a little bit. Gain a little perspective here. No one outside your immediate friends and family knows you, or of you, so nobody is "at war" with you. If you blinked out of existence tomorrow, your anti-SJW crusader friends wouldn't even notice. The SJWs would notice even less. You're nothing more than a child in a room full of other children trying to scream the loudest.

I hate the extreme far left, too, but I'm not at all willing to throw away the human rights of my neighbors by supporting a president who wants to strip net neutrality, demolish our right to a free press, and throw people in jail just for the fun of it -- all for the sake of spiting people who irritate me. Why? Because I am an adult and I realize that politics is not just about me and what I want. There are things in this world bigger than my petty annoyances with people who want to claim they're sapiosexual or whatever the fuck.

And to address your edit, that's a problem with shitty corporate oversight, not with people wanting more diversity in game casts.

You can't claim to hate SJWs yet spout SJW nonsense in your entire post about your feelings on Trump. Only an SJW actually thinks Trump is some monster who's doing a bunch of terrible things for this country. He's doing nothing different from previous Presidents besides going out of his way to offend SJWs and Snowflakes, which is why you all bitch so hard about him. Boo fuckin' hoo, that's the point, you're supposed to hate him, he triggers SJWs and Snowflakes.

And I'm not the one who's a child with an ego, it's all the SJWs and Snowflakes who refuse to accept Trump is their POTUS and marched on the streets declaring he's not their President, or cause mass protests because a speaker like Milo has the nerve to show up and speak at one of their campuses, or the various Universities that go into a meltdown over the literally non-controversial "it's Okay to Be White" posters, or the many Snowflake SJW celebs that feel the need to cry about how mean Trump is or rap a terrible song like Eminem, or call people with legit concerns about Islam racist/Islamophobic, or the various late-show hosts like Colbert who just can't get over Trump and virtue signal to their SJW Snowflake viewers every night, or fucking Blizzard having a "Diversity is our Strength" panel at a gaming event that has NOTHING to do with games because again virtue signalling to SJWs and Snowflakes.

Best of all are all the SJWs and Snowflakes who were SO SURE that Trump was going to lose, with all those polls saying Hillary had 90% chance to win. Just look up the 2016 Election results and the way all the SJWs and Snowflakes reacted, then come back and tell me I'm the one who's a child with an ego.

Edit: Corporations don't think making a good game matters when SJWs are their audience because they know SJWs will still eat the game up and praise it for "sending a strong Message" and attack people who criticize the game for its nonsense as being "problematic" or some other kind of microagression.

 

[Autoignition]

You can't claim to hate SJWs yet spout SJW nonsense in your entire post about your feelings on Trump. Only an SJW actually thinks Trump is some monster who's doing a bunch of terrible things for this country. He's doing nothing different from previous Presidents besides going out of his way to offend SJWs and Snowflakes, which is why you all bitch so hard about him. Boo fuckin' hoo, that's the point, you're supposed to hate him, he triggers SJWs and Snowflakes.

And I'm not the one who's a child with an ego, it's all the SJWs and Snowflakes who refuse to accept Trump is their POTUS and marched on the streets declaring he's not their President, or cause mass protests because a speaker like Milo has the nerve to show up and speak at one of their campuses, or the various Universities that go into a meltdown over the literally non-controversial "it's Okay to Be White" posters, or the many Snowflake SJW celebs that feel the need to cry about how mean Trump is or rap a terrible song like Eminem, or call people with legit concerns about Islam racist/Islamophobic, or the various late-show hosts like Colbert who just can't get over Trump and virtue signal to their SJW Snowflake viewers every night, or fucking Blizzard having a "Diversity is our Strength" panel at a gaming event that has NOTHING to do with games because again virtue signalling to SJWs and Snowflakes.

Best of all are all the SJWs and Snowflakes who were SO SURE that Trump was going to lose, with all those polls saying Hillary had 90% chance to win. Just look up the 2016 Election results and the way all the SJWs and Snowflakes reacted, then come back and tell me I'm the one who's a child with an ego.

Your whataboutism is showing. I don't have to look up anything to read your posts and know that you sound like a petulant child who wants to scream and cry and stamp your feet until the Big Bad Mean SJWs go away and let you do whatever you want.

And if you really believe that Trump's not doing the things that I mentioned, maybe it's you that has to go look some shit up. The net neutrality thing is happening as we speak. It's very very very very current news. Go look.

You don't have to be an SJW to want the internet to remain open and free of microtransaction bullshit. You don't have to be an SJW to look at the healthcare shitshow in congress and go, "dear god I hope this never gets to Trump's desk, because he will definitely sign it and then I personally will fucking die due to a lack of access to healthcare." You don't have to be an SJW to have seen your neighbors harassed on the streets by law enforcement due to Trump's stances on immigration. I live in Vegas; most of my neighbors are Hispanic, and all of them are legal. They've been detained anyway.

There are real things happening in this country right now that are a direct result of Trump and the GOP's policy and positions in office. If you think they're doing nothing, then it's time for you to come back to reality and take a good hard look at the things around you.

 

[Ke0]

I legitimately prayed to God that Trump would win because I knew immediately watching him in action that he was the key to turning this countries culture away from SJW hands and being PC. I honestly don't give a damn about Trump's policies or if he does a good job. The only reason I want him there is to trigger SJWs and punish them severely. Trump is there to destroy PC culture, and he leads by example by being the most rude, disrespectful, toxic, nonresidential person in the history of this country.

I think Trump is the best President we could have asked for during these time, there's way too many Snowflakes who don't seem to know their place and are too comfortable being absolute idiots. It's time to change that.

Hmm if your American history is anything to go by, you'll only strengthen the whole "SJW" movement more than anything. Only two ways to kill most movements is to either actually kill and suppress people or indulge them and change the things they want.

If anything this brought those groups you despise together even more.