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What are your thoughts on insta-kill attacks?
- Thread starter Albino_Yeti
- Start date
You can parry it with any shield. Even a pot lid.
Karsticles
Member
Bring back Roadhog.
Albino_Yeti
Member
Now that you mention it...maybe using the Watchdog as an example of an easy to dodge 1 hit attack was a bad idea...Only when the hitboxes are broken, for instance fuck the following:
in the cursed dungeon where you only have half health. Has a charge attack with barely a telegraph and a broken hitbox.
from Furi. Can one shot you through walls sometimes.
Hitokiri03
Member
DisagreeOnly when the hitboxes are broken, for instance fuck the following:
in the cursed dungeon where you only have half health. Has a charge attack with barely a telegraph and a broken hitbox.
He gives a fair window to react after the hint
at beginning
After lose 50% of his health
Now his jump attack is pretty hard to dodge
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
Shanking in COD used to be so good now they pussified it
old manatee
Banned
Just keep your equip load under 30% so you have a quick roll.
Exactly, instant-kill attacks should be ridiculously telegraphed giving ample opportunity for the player to notice and act accordingly. As many others have said, instant kill attacks are bad when there's not enough prep to the one shot attack, if said OHKO move is spammed from multiple enemies (especially in an enclosed space or when your mobility is hampered), or when they can kill you even through the things that are supposed to protect you from them. RNG instant-death feels like bullshit though, like Yiazmat's claws swipes. Your reward for being resilient enough to survive it and heal through it? A combo that keeps going until the instant-death procs.
But the thing you said that got me to respond was the high speed 80% damage hits. They're not instant death spells/skills but they're effectively the same thing in that they come out quick and will drop you just as quick. There are too many of these in games.
InsaneFandom
Member
Eh if it's something you can reasonably dodge then it's fine (but annoying)
If the only thing you can really do is hope it misses than that's bullshit.
I've never been more frustrated with a game then when I lost hours of progress in Persona 3P due to a random enemy killing just my MC with mahama.
If the only thing you can really do is hope it misses than that's bullshit.
I've never been more frustrated with a game then when I lost hours of progress in Persona 3P due to a random enemy killing just my MC with mahama.
Very hard mode? Or Hardcore (3 saves only)?
Because I played Hardcore for a bit before getting super fucked by the first brute fight and lost all my progress (honestly, I'd have retried the mode if cutscenes were skippable)
But even then, I considered hard core in DS2 more fair than Akumu. I made a mistake thinking I could survive the charge at half health and my death was on me.
Where as in Akumu mode ANYTHING will one shot you, and they place traps and explosives all over the map and harder enemies in areas where you aren't equipped (like the Ruvik clones in the first village) for an added fuck you, plus all enemies have priority movement over your character and can basically interupt all actions.
If the performance issues weren't so bad, then DS2 hard core mode would definitly be more frustrating since the progress loss can be huge. But I think Akumu is just obnoxiously designed and highlights the games many flaws.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Firstly, these aren't one-hit kills if you have enough health. Hell, they aren't even 5-hit kills if you have the right armor, and that's before healing yourself with any food or elixers is considered.
Secondly, as you pointed out, one option is to hide behind something and block their view. You can also use a shield to parry their laser (and kill them in the process). And once you get the
Champion's ability from Daruk, you get three free shields from all damage
Thirdly, a shot to their laser eye with an arrow will stun them long enough to run away or kill them.
Guardian lasers are not even close to being a one-hit kill. That said, if you're just wandering up to them with 3-6 hearts, no good weapons and no good armor then yeah, you're going to be outmatched. That's the point.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
His hitboxes are genuinely broken. I've dodged the hell out of that attack and gotten killed by it anyway. It's not just that attack, most of his attacks are broken hitbox wise. The guy is a huge distance away in those gifs.Disagree
He gives a fair window to react after the hint
at beginning
After lose 50% of his health
Now his jump attack is pretty hard to dodge
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Don't stop believing
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I honestly haven't encountered this being cheap outside of FFIX (with their pointless additional abnormal status). Though I guess that's more on the annoyance side.
In Paladins I'm surprised at the people complaining about one hits. Drogoz yells out his attack and has a startup time for instance.
Err what? Even the central tower I was able to get so early because I moved fast to avoid them or even block their attacks. Why are you letting yourself be hit by a really telegraphed attack?
In Paladins I'm surprised at the people complaining about one hits. Drogoz yells out his attack and has a startup time for instance.
Err what? Even the central tower I was able to get so early because I moved fast to avoid them or even block their attacks. Why are you letting yourself be hit by a really telegraphed attack?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Oh yeah I meant hardcore. Yeah I get what u mean, Evil Within has some annoying parts that play through in Akumu mode can be frustrating. Honestly the Ruvik clone wasn't one that annoyed me. it was enemies with machine guns really got in my nerves.
Played The Evil Within early this year and it really drove me bonkers how many enemies you face are total bullet-sponge "instant kill if touched" BS. I overall liked the game, but they went way overboard with that stuff for sure. It was like a constant series of death traps that could be supremely frustrating for less patient players.
It did perform much nicer on PS4 Pro Boost mode though. Can't fathom experiencing all of that on vanilla.
Disagree
He gives a fair window to react after the hint
at beginning
After lose 50% of his health
Now his jump attack is pretty hard to dodge
The attack is telegraphed but the hitbox is ridiculously broken. It's technically not a one-hit KO (I know I survived it once), but whether you beat that guy on your third or twentieth try can be up to luck.
Enrage timer OHKOs are worse. If I've gotten to that boss at the level/skill I'm at and can stay alive long enough to trigger an enrage timer, let me finish the fight even if it takes me an hour. Why let me fight for 20 minutes, get the boss to 20% health, auto wipe, force me to go grind for an hour, then come back, instead of just letting me fight for another 5 minutes to finish the fight in the first place.
They are almost always cheap gear checks of artificial difficulty, not good game design.
They are almost always cheap gear checks of artificial difficulty, not good game design.
Gai Murakumo
Member
If they can be somewhat telegraphed, like the boss is pretty much charging up for a big attack, then I think it is fair. If it is very sudden or very quick like a grab that you need to dodge within less than a second than that is where it can become cheap.
Not a huge fan of them overall.
I beat it once with only getting hit once or twice I think hitboxes are fine for the most part. Far from broken.
Disagree
He gives a fair window to react after the hint
at beginning
After lose 50% of his health
Now his jump attack is pretty hard to dodge
I beat it once with only getting hit once or twice I think hitboxes are fine for the most part. Far from broken.
Yeah was the first thing to pop into my head when I saw the thread title. I don't know why Blizzard keep adding characters to this game. They should spend more time properly balancing the orignal roster.
I hate they changed it hopefully it goes back to a 1 hit kill.
I really dislike it in SP games, unless there's a save point beforehand or a way of knowing I'm about to face Some Bullshit™ because being caught unaware by a instant party wipe is just .. wtf, man.
It's more forgiveable in games like the Souls series where death and loss are just part of the experience (I'll never forget the dudes in the Tower of Latria, nightmares) but when it's a lengthy RPG and you have gone through a long dungeon only to get insta-wiped and have to restart from the beginning, it's kinda like.. wtf? I have to re-do the past 2 hours of my life all over again?
If it's full party wipe, or it's something like a status effect that can be cured/dispelled, then it's also more forgiveable, but something like, you got the boss to 50% and then a full party wipe ability was added to the bosses ability RNG pool, that's just frustrating design. If you learn about it afterwards and there's a hard counter to it, then fine, but otherwise, you're just wasting the players time.
in MP games it's less offensive as death is part of the experience there, and while it can be frustrating to be having a good game and then instantly crushed by Some Bullshit™, you're losing at most a minute or two, and not several hours progress
It's more forgiveable in games like the Souls series where death and loss are just part of the experience (I'll never forget the dudes in the Tower of Latria, nightmares) but when it's a lengthy RPG and you have gone through a long dungeon only to get insta-wiped and have to restart from the beginning, it's kinda like.. wtf? I have to re-do the past 2 hours of my life all over again?
If it's full party wipe, or it's something like a status effect that can be cured/dispelled, then it's also more forgiveable, but something like, you got the boss to 50% and then a full party wipe ability was added to the bosses ability RNG pool, that's just frustrating design. If you learn about it afterwards and there's a hard counter to it, then fine, but otherwise, you're just wasting the players time.
in MP games it's less offensive as death is part of the experience there, and while it can be frustrating to be having a good game and then instantly crushed by Some Bullshit™, you're losing at most a minute or two, and not several hours progress
PvE- A boss with no wind up is lame, but if the game gives me aprĂłpiate warnings it's cool. Mobs that one shot are lame.
PvP- only if non common requirements are met for example. Charging a really long attack, hitting from behind, having power weapons, or non spammable abilities that are never able to be guaranteed hit and user has to skillfully use that ability.
PvP- only if non common requirements are met for example. Charging a really long attack, hitting from behind, having power weapons, or non spammable abilities that are never able to be guaranteed hit and user has to skillfully use that ability.
I hated it, specially because you couldn't control another party member if your main was got done with that bs, so it was Game Over straight away.
FFXIII was so easy, but the final boss was infuriating not because it was harder, but because of that unfair bs game design.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Put persona 5 down for a week because I lost two hours of progress because of my first encounter with the insta death spell and of course it was used on the only important person on the team(Mc)
Drilbit777
Member
Once you get better armor and learn to parry them they aren't an issue. Guardians only really gave me trouble in the early hours.
Spiritwalker
Member
It's trash, especially in FF.
I don't like them. Both Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 for example have problems where grab and charge attacks sometimes have huge hitboxes and you end up in them even if you tried to dodge.
If I was at less than full health, it's fine if I get killed by those. If I am at full health then I should be at least left with a sliver so I can keep playing and try to heal.
If I was at less than full health, it's fine if I get killed by those. If I am at full health then I should be at least left with a sliver so I can keep playing and try to heal.
ProgenitorCastle
Banned
OP, these are pretty much my EXACT thoughts on the subject.
For example, chainsaw people in RE4 and TEW are what I consider fair one-hit-kill enemies...but for Laura in TEW for example, big bullshit. I feel it's just like you described here:
TheRedSnifit
Member
The Guardians are the most inoffensive enemies in the game. Shoot an arrow to the eye and stun them. Hide behind a rock and they can't hit you. Parry their attack with even the lowest-level shield in the game for either an instakill on them or a huge chunk of damage. Hit one of their legs with one of those Ancient Weapons you find in "Test of Strength" trials to make them topple over. Etc.
How you let one sneak up on you and kill you from off screen is beyond me.
I don't mind in random battles- you often have escape items/skills and in games where party leader KO=game over there's usually a way to nullify it.
I dislike it in final boss fights where it's random and there's a lengthy gameplay section/cut scene in front of it, SMT Strange Journey was tough for this
Actually, I dislike the mechanic where party members get kidnapped for ages in boss fights even more, cutting your options down with no chance of reviving them until the boss lets them go. Late game Trails bosses do this and it can be an exercise in frustration if you haven't blocked it on every party member, Id rather they were KO'd instead. It's not a great mechanic if a status is so frustrating and lasts so long that the player chooses to remove it from the game in exchange for not using other cool stuff. What's a bit odd is that in a game with four reserves you can swap in, they can't swap in to replace a unit that's kidnapped.
I dislike it in final boss fights where it's random and there's a lengthy gameplay section/cut scene in front of it, SMT Strange Journey was tough for this
Actually, I dislike the mechanic where party members get kidnapped for ages in boss fights even more, cutting your options down with no chance of reviving them until the boss lets them go. Late game Trails bosses do this and it can be an exercise in frustration if you haven't blocked it on every party member, Id rather they were KO'd instead. It's not a great mechanic if a status is so frustrating and lasts so long that the player chooses to remove it from the game in exchange for not using other cool stuff. What's a bit odd is that in a game with four reserves you can swap in, they can't swap in to replace a unit that's kidnapped.
Dirk Benedict
Member
Only when the hitboxes are broken, for instance fuck the following:
in the cursed dungeon where you only have half health. Has a charge attack with barely a telegraph and a broken hitbox.
I fail to find Watchdog's hitbox broken. Also, it's easy to see if he is going to charge, unless he does an animation cancel or you're too far inside of him, whacking away. That boss has many anti greed counters and will animation cancel if you beat on him while too far in, for too long.
you can chain break his legs, or play tit-for-tat. There are a few ways to keep his unpredictability low.
Edit: if you're fighting him from the front, and depending on what you do, he can change the direction of his bite attack after baiting him, depending on where he is at in the animation, he won't change direction.
@OP I can't say I am bothered by one hit kills. They exist to destroy the player. Are some fair? Probably not.
Came to post this. ^
Also, we can throw in the extremely obvious red laser pointer, the also highly obvious charging up noise they make and the change in music which occurs when a Guardian spots you.
Nothing wrong with Guardian Stalkers.
TheRazielim
Member
What the fuck are you talking about? All the traps are avoidable first time, if you actually pay attention to your surroundings and take it slow. Can't recall a single enemy either that jumps completely out of blue to kill you, either.
I call bullshit.
OH! FUCK THOSE GUYS
I just mentioned the Ruvik thing because I remembered it the most in Akumu, but the enemies with guns on that mode can literally fuck off.
It was awful. It had loadtimes that were the equivalent of pre-patch bloodborne. Combined with a difficulty mode where one hit kills everytime... yeah it was awful.
I'm fine with them in general. Unless there is literally no way to see them coming even after you've died to them a few times but I can't think of an example of that happening right now.
I was fine with them in The Evil Within. In fact I feel it would have been a lesser game without them. They added to the tension. I took the lesson to keep my distance from bosses early on.
I was fine with them in The Evil Within. In fact I feel it would have been a lesser game without them. They added to the tension. I took the lesson to keep my distance from bosses early on.
AppleSeason
Member
As somebody who experienced it for the first time in the original Guilty Gear for PSX:
"No sir, I don't like it".
In single player games I'm ok with it, and most bosses usually telegraph when they are going to do it so once you find out how to dodge it, you can avoid it. The only one where I hated it was Final Fantasy XIII. And the intestine Labyrinth of Gameboy Battletag, but that game falls in the masochist category.
In multiplayer / competitive, I hate it. Even if you make it insanely hard to pull to give it some balance, like Ryu's special moves in Street Fighter I, there's always somebody with enough time to master it and make the rest miserable. Thank glob for the Roadhog nerf.
"No sir, I don't like it".
In single player games I'm ok with it, and most bosses usually telegraph when they are going to do it so once you find out how to dodge it, you can avoid it. The only one where I hated it was Final Fantasy XIII. And the intestine Labyrinth of Gameboy Battletag, but that game falls in the masochist category.
In multiplayer / competitive, I hate it. Even if you make it insanely hard to pull to give it some balance, like Ryu's special moves in Street Fighter I, there's always somebody with enough time to master it and make the rest miserable. Thank glob for the Roadhog nerf.