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What can be done to innovate AAA Mario?
- Thread starter Solid SOAP
- Start date
Just to get it out of their system, the sense of adventure and discovery on Super Mario 64. Its not my favorite of the 3D Mario's but its also a feeling that has not been replaced yet.
Sunshine's stages are too small to enforce exploration, and Galaxy 1 and 2 are pretty straightforward with their design, usually leading you the way you wanted to go. 3D Land/Word are also fairly linear.
I want to see how they'll tackle the freedom of Mario 64 in a modern game. You could see most of the stars and pick them in quite a few orders, you could change your route if you felt you didn't like to do certain stars, and you could find new routes and rooms just by walking around.
Sunshine's stages are too small to enforce exploration, and Galaxy 1 and 2 are pretty straightforward with their design, usually leading you the way you wanted to go. 3D Land/Word are also fairly linear.
I want to see how they'll tackle the freedom of Mario 64 in a modern game. You could see most of the stars and pick them in quite a few orders, you could change your route if you felt you didn't like to do certain stars, and you could find new routes and rooms just by walking around.
Honestly, when you pull off the perfect space-based game, it's hard go up from there because space is the greatest adventure in real life.
I appreciate their strategy with 3D world to try "different" rather than grander scale.
Personally I would like to see them try true sandbox Mario (one area). But with Galaxy style platforming. There's an appeal to the idea of an interconnected world made of the insane geometry of the galaxy games.
I appreciate their strategy with 3D world to try "different" rather than grander scale.
Personally I would like to see them try true sandbox Mario (one area). But with Galaxy style platforming. There's an appeal to the idea of an interconnected world made of the insane geometry of the galaxy games.
Now this is gonna sound like really out there, but if anyone has an uncle who works at Nintendo, maybe we can get this idea pitched and have this made in time for the NX's 2nd year.
First, the player selects from Bowser, Wario, Donkey Kong, Wart, etc. (basically, anyone who has been a Mario antagonist).
Then, it's off to various Mario-themed areas from previous games for standard platforming action. When a level is cleared, the enemies, blocks and items that were interacted with in that stage are added to their inventory.
The player is then brought back to the hub world where they can combine items from the inventory to discover new stage elements, items and monsters. For instance:
This brings us to the next part.
Using their discoveries, the player can then design their own fortress and upload it online. Other players can then download this fortress and try to conquer it using Mario protagonists. If they clear the castle, they get some points. If they fail, the creator gets the points.
The points unlock various rewards like alternate costumes, and music, and cameo characters.
First, the player selects from Bowser, Wario, Donkey Kong, Wart, etc. (basically, anyone who has been a Mario antagonist).
Then, it's off to various Mario-themed areas from previous games for standard platforming action. When a level is cleared, the enemies, blocks and items that were interacted with in that stage are added to their inventory.
The player is then brought back to the hub world where they can combine items from the inventory to discover new stage elements, items and monsters. For instance:
This brings us to the next part.
Using their discoveries, the player can then design their own fortress and upload it online. Other players can then download this fortress and try to conquer it using Mario protagonists. If they clear the castle, they get some points. If they fail, the creator gets the points.
The points unlock various rewards like alternate costumes, and music, and cameo characters.
Yeah this. Use 3D Mario for a more exploration-adventure type of gameplay like Mario 64 and use 2D Mario for the pure platforming experience. Or go bananas and fuse Mario 64 + Galaxy:
Big open levels with much to explore and linear parts with finely tuned platforming sections.
These levels are in fact comprised of smaller, linear parts like in Galaxy that intertwine to create the whole level layout. This is something you see in 2D platformers (Shovel Knight for example does this really well) and it´ll surely be really hard to develop in 3D, but if someone can push 3D level design forward it´s Nintendo, so I hope they give it a shot. Now that I think about it, it isn´t too different to what the first half of Dark Souls did: a big interconnected map to explore in every direction, but made of smaller hand-crafted challenges. Imagine a level like Undead Burg but with platforming challenges instead of combat ones, with secrets and shortcuts at every step. I must have this!
Already gone, it's not in Mario Run.
Glass Rebel
Member
If there's one thing Nintendo should take from 64 and Sunshine it's the expanded moveset and make the player actually use it. Make the levels more interactive and design them so you have to use the backflip, dive, slide etc.
Miss me with that "open world" bullshit though. The sandbox levels were always the most boring in the Mario games.
Miss me with that "open world" bullshit though. The sandbox levels were always the most boring in the Mario games.
Nintendo always chooses A.
-Mutsukki-
Member
For 3D Mario games I'd hope they would try to make it a little more exploration based like 64 and Sunshine, but what they have currently is really good already to be honest.
2D Mario games though need a complete overhaul. Diferent art direction, different ideas, just change everything. Ditch the "New" series. I would love a hand-drawn Mario, even though I'm sure that would be pretty much impossible. But I'd do with just better art direction
2D Mario games though need a complete overhaul. Diferent art direction, different ideas, just change everything. Ditch the "New" series. I would love a hand-drawn Mario, even though I'm sure that would be pretty much impossible. But I'd do with just better art direction
Rotch Crot
Banned
Let Mario visit other nintendo world's and interact with characters from other nintendo franchises. I mean it happens with Mario kart and smash so it isn't new.
Have a level or series of levels where he assists link in hyrule. Samus in space. Donkey Kong and friends in a jungle. Etc.
Have a level or series of levels where he assists link in hyrule. Samus in space. Donkey Kong and friends in a jungle. Etc.
Captain Europe
Member
I was looking at Sonic 1 hacks the other day and found a Mario one that blew away NSMB in terms of Mario's look..
Another design from the same artist:
I remember being impressed that every Mario spriteset in All-Stars and World was completely different for each game. Back then, Nintendo actually tried. Now they just copy and paste Mario's model, as seen once again in Mario Run. And ironically they started doing this at the highest heights of their success with the DS and Wii, when they had more money than ever to spend on making the games.
I agree that modern 2D Mario looks and sounds very boring, but let's not go overboard by saying that they care less about Mario now, they're handling 3D Mario perfectly, that is what they view as the main Mario series. It's just a shame that they don't treat 2D Mario better. It'd be awesome if they gave us Mario Mania, but I don't see that happening sadly. I do hope they are done with the ''New'' series.
Theanine3D
Member
I was only talking about 2D Mario in that specific post.
I actually think Super Mario 3D World has *the* best art direction and one of the top 3 soundtracks in the series. My only complaints with 3D Mario right now are gameplay-related. Nintendo still puts very clear effort and creativity into the art side of things in those games.
Completely the opposite with 2D Mario. They are ugly and uninspired visually and audibly, but the gameplay is still solid.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
Give Mario a voice.
Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice.
Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice.
Milly Osworth
Member
Female Mario.
Harmondale
Member
Super Mario VR: Quest for peach booty
Japanese meltdown
Japanese meltdown
TannerDemoz
Member
I'd like to see something similar to Mario 64/Sunshine but bigger. One huge world hub, where players have to unlock new abilities to open up new parts of it, thus opening up new levels. Gated progression.
the number one thing nintendo can do to keep mario fresh is to NOT listen to internet message board gamers, and keep doing what they've always done for the mainline mario games.
it's worked wonderfully so far, and in the last two consoles alone, nintendo has created some of the freshest mainline mario games to date.
it's worked wonderfully so far, and in the last two consoles alone, nintendo has created some of the freshest mainline mario games to date.
zombieshavebrains
I have not used cocaine
Ultra Mario World.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
I'd like a 64/sunshine sequel.
I couldn't play Galaxy because of the controls. Also just wasn't feeling the game at all. The spherical worlds gimmick thing got old fast.
I'd love a full 3d adventure game. Doesn't need to be anything other than Mario, but imagine seeing giant airships floating around. Climbing up the anchors etc.
So many possibilities with all the different levels over the years. Fully 3d ghost house, castles, dinosaur land, giant land, pipe land etc etc.
The series has been around forever and still has endless potential
I couldn't play Galaxy because of the controls. Also just wasn't feeling the game at all. The spherical worlds gimmick thing got old fast.
I'd love a full 3d adventure game. Doesn't need to be anything other than Mario, but imagine seeing giant airships floating around. Climbing up the anchors etc.
So many possibilities with all the different levels over the years. Fully 3d ghost house, castles, dinosaur land, giant land, pipe land etc etc.
The series has been around forever and still has endless potential
Captain Europe
Member
Yeah, the gameplay is very solid, but the boring visuals and music do hurt the playability for me, especially the reused music.
I really wonder why they put minimal effort/budget into 2D Mario, and put way more effort into other 2D series like DK, Kirby and Yoshi. Mario is their big guy. 2D Mario could be so much more.
Solid SOAP
Member
The games were clearly selling very, very well on the shoestring budget. The 2D games are popular for the tightness of gameplay, and I imagine that the bare bones visuals allowed for 60fps to be reached on the DS and Wii consoles, ultimately making for a better game. They just got greedy with NSMBU, methinks.
Regarding the other series... many of those games sell for reasons beyond gameplay. DKC was heralded for its graphical innovations at the time, and each Yoshi game reinvents itself visually. It only makes sense that the modern games do the same. Plus, they're significantly harder games to sell than Mario, so they had to put in everything they got.
EDIT: scratch that 60fps comment. Galaxy games and DKCR ran at 60fps with their level of graphical fidelity, they really had no excuse for NSMBWii
aygomyownroad
Member
Harder more Trial and Error Bosses.
Hard mode which limits lives
Hard mode which limits lives
They don't put minimal effort into 2D Mario. It's definitely a design choice to keep Mario's visuals clean and simple.
The latest 2D Mario is the most effort they've put into 2D Mario's visuals. Very nicely detailed without being too messy. The backgrounds also "tell a story" in that they change based on the level's location on the world map:
For example earlier levels in Frosted Glacier have trees in front of mountains and a starry sky. Further into the glacier the backgrounds show different mountains, a moon, and aurora going in the sky.
Which corresponds to the map:
DKC, Kirby, and Yoshi games have always had more complex visuals, so continuing to make them that way doesn't conflict with what they have always been. Yoshi's first game was designed to look like a child's drawing, the second was a popup book, the latest game looks like arts and crafts. Those franchises also don't have as much pressure on them to please the widest possible audience.
UnemployedVillain
Member
I've always liked the idea of Mario being in more "real life" worlds, more akin to those in Mario Kart 8. I think they could keep the same mechanics, but switch up the art style and levels to accomadate that and it alone would be a HUGE change. Also, I'd bring back actual hub worlds. And not a tiny one like the one in Galaxy, but one like from Sunshine or 64, which is as large as a level and has its own secrets and small platforming challenges
Yep!
The Legend of Peach
Evil Koopadorf shattered Peach into 7 pieces and scattered them across the Mushroom Kingdom. Each is in a dungeon guarded by a Koopa Kid. Find them all then defeat Koopadorf once and for all!
on your iPad
pretty done
Member
Mario 64 style but a fully open world rather than the hub
It would be hard to resist that no matter what the NX hardware ends up actually being.
It would be hard to resist that no matter what the NX hardware ends up actually being.
I thought a new 2D Mario should have a new theme. Kind of what Sunshine was trying to do. Like Mario and friends are spies and this gives him new abilities like sliding and gripping and spinning (like ninja gaiden). Plus he could have new visors like seeing infrared, which changes the challenge of the level somehow like avoiding triggering traps and such...
Solid SOAP
Member
Tbh I would hate this. Maybe I'm a purist but I think 2D MARIO staying relatively simple is fine. Make some new worlds and stuff but otherwise keep Mario's role the same.
Despite people often saying you can tell something is a work of love by the details the reality is they'll tend to decide to not bother looking for those details unless you have something really blatant to hit them over the head with "SEE NEW" Or "Look at the graphics, LOOK AT THEM!"
It's one of the things World manged really well looking back. It manged to change just enough to make people think it changed more then it actually did.
I'd like to see the connected hub world, and then a combination of 64/Sunshine/Galaxy and 3DL/3DW.
First time in, the level is more "narrow" and its just a race to the flag pole. Once that's complete, the level "opens up" and there are 5 Shine challenges. Comet Medals and 8 Red Coin challenges in each level also.
First time in, the level is more "narrow" and its just a race to the flag pole. Once that's complete, the level "opens up" and there are 5 Shine challenges. Comet Medals and 8 Red Coin challenges in each level also.
Platinumstorm
Member
First, my always comment of "Oh look, another armchair forumer saying that someone didn't sell enough of X enough units to be a financial success despite knowing nothing about Nintendo's development costs!"
Substance comment:
I'd like to see two separate lines form for Mario games. I don't care what form they are: 2D platforming, 3d platforming, tickle me Mario. [Exception: Screw the awful paper mario titles].
I'd like to see one designed for casual players, and one designed for experienced Mario players who have been playing forever at this point. An alternative would be to have two of the game experiences within the same same - you just choose one versus the other. Same stories - utterly different levels.
When I play through Mario games I am trudging along through them with the sole task of finding levels that are designed to be challenging or a really unique experience. There is just too much garbage to wade through in Mario games.
Substance comment:
I'd like to see two separate lines form for Mario games. I don't care what form they are: 2D platforming, 3d platforming, tickle me Mario. [Exception: Screw the awful paper mario titles].
I'd like to see one designed for casual players, and one designed for experienced Mario players who have been playing forever at this point. An alternative would be to have two of the game experiences within the same same - you just choose one versus the other. Same stories - utterly different levels.
When I play through Mario games I am trudging along through them with the sole task of finding levels that are designed to be challenging or a really unique experience. There is just too much garbage to wade through in Mario games.