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What did Dark Souls 2 do that makes it mediocre?

it was a series of linear hallways when the first game had a great interconnected world

loads of boring bosses

too many enemy encounters lacking in creativity where the designers just threw up their hands and hurled a ton of shit at you

it felt like dex builds were severely nerfed since most of the toughest enemies were heavily armored

big graphics downgrade before release that namco did their scummy best to hide
 
This is also how I feel about the elevator in Earthen Peak mysteriously leading to Iron Keep. It's strange, but it doesn't hurt the gameplay in anyway so why should I care?

Because immersion is part of making a good game you want the levels to flow seamlessly. The series is known to show areas that you go or have previously been and doesn't use impossible space.
 
Honestly it does a lot of things better than Dark 1. Dark had great level design, as in on paper, but the environments in DS2 were at least enjoyable to be in and traverse unlike the first.

But as others have said, the boss fights weren't up to the quality we expect and personally speaking, the game was the hardest souls game and more often than not, it was cheap. I would almost never accuse the other 3 games as being cheap.
 
Almost all of Dark Souls 2 bosses come down to turtle around with a shield.
Really now.

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+ My dual kats user, my dual whip user, my sorceress, my twinblade user, my hexer... so what, exactly, are you talking about? I have more shieldless characters than shield users.
 
Other than S&O and the DLC bosses, the Dark Souls ones aren't really that great either. I really don't get the hate. "Suck balls", ugh, so annoyingly hyperbolic. The only boss I'd describe that way is Bed of Chaos.

Plus humanoids are the best bosses generally. Gaping Dragon? Centipede? 4K? Pfft, give me Artorias or Fume Knight any day, they're way more fun.


...By using alluring skulls or the Yearn spell. Cool, it actually made those things useful! Thanks, Dark Souls 2! :)

Skeleton Lords, Belfry Gargoyles (or how to get a DkS cool fight and make it unsufferable), Royal Rat Vanguard, Royal Rat Authority, Old Dragonslayer (basically a wathered down version of a DkS fight), Covetous demon, Ancient Dragon (he basically has 2 moves), The Rotten, Twin Dragonrider (a rather underwhelming boss that they felt we had to repeat and this time x2, because we don't know how to make boss battles harder unless we put more than one enemy), Prowling magus (dosn't even need annotation).

Ruin Sentinels is also there, but because is the perfect example of why DkS ganks squead bosses are so bad.

All those are below average, the rest is average except for Smelter Demon, Darklurker and Vendrick, then we have the DLC bosses (well 2 Fume Knight and Alone, but also have the worse gank squad ever). Bed of chaos was a puzzle boss gone wrong, yeah it was bad, and pinwheel is weak, but those are the exception rather than the norm like in DkS2.
 
I generally never ran past enemies. I'd always fight them again. I'm pretty terrible at running past enemies so I'd just fight them. The only time I'd actually perfected a running strategy was in the Dragon Shrine as the amount of enemies and lack of short cut was so stupid. The only time Dark Souls 2 could've done with an extra bonfire, they decided against it lol.

But even if you ran past enemies, it was still pleasing to find a short cut that would reduce the run as well as illustrating how the areas interconnect. There was also still some tension in a run that you'd get caught by an enemy and could get killed before you get there.
Its relatively easy to run pass trash mobs. Generally, ff you dash right next to them, they won't hit you. They all have attack animation which takes time before the blow lands. By then, you will be pass and out of their range.
 
Skeleton Lords was kinda fun, a bit easy but I don't know why the Shadows of Yharnam are great and this one isn't? Belfry Gargoyles was pretty intense. I don't mind RRV (it's like Celestial Emissary I guess, a weak boss but at least kinda original), RRA was annoying though.

Ruin Sentinels is one of the best bosses in the game. It's actually a "gank squad" done right, unlike the extremely annoying DLC trio.

The gameplay, sucks like shit
smh

In this thread:
mediocre
lazy dev
terrible
sucks balls
sucks like shit

And it's not stopping. For what was easily my GotY 2014. Welp, I'm out.
 
Mediocre seems to me like an exaggeration. I think DS2 is good, just not as good as DS1.
I see most of the points I was going to make have been posted already, so I'm just going to tell you what really bothers me about DS2.

Story and Lore. They're one aspect of DS1 that I absolutely adore, the story was simple but effective and the world was so compelling that people made careers out of explaining what they got out of it.
DS2's story is pure nonsense plain and simple. It's a bad copy paste that just doesn't work. However some of the locations and characters mentioned in the item descriptions are quite interesting and worth exploring, but even there they can't seem to stop "borrowing" from Dark Souls I mean
Forossa is Balder and the Ivory King is Knight King Rendal, Lanafir is Zena, the Emerald Herald is literally what Priscilla was going to be like in the cut content etc etc
.

Difficulty. It's been said before but the game's cheap more than it is fair. NPC Invaders are the worst example of this, they in no way simulate a fight against another player and are more annoying than interesting 9 times out of 10. Impossibly large health bars, seemingly infinite stamina, attack tracking and inconsistent poise.

Well that was a lot of negativity. I'm going to say that the DLC is very good. Good level design, some breathtaking areas and some great, challenging bosses. The online is unquestionably more stable than in DS1, at least on PC and so is the performance, and upgrading weapons is now not awful!
TL DR: It's a good game with some issues. I recommend it, get it if you can.
 
Nothing. I just think people were fatigued from 2 previous installments or maybe just expected way too much. It was just as good as DS1.
 
Skeleton Lords was kinda fun, a bit easy but I don't know why the Shadows of Yharnam are great and this one isn't? Belfry Gargoyles was pretty intense. I don't mind RRV (it's like Celestial Emissary I guess, a weak boss but at least kinda original), RRA was annoying though.

Ruin Sentinels is one of the best bosses in the game. It's actually a "gank squad" done right, unlike the extremely annoying DLC trio.

Shadow of Yarman, dosn't become a squad of trash mobs when they die. For starters, and their attack patterns are 1000% more interesting...

The original gargoyle fight in DkS was intense and well balanced, the DkS2 is an exercise of frustration, because is not fun to fight 4 guys at the same time, that can jump all over the place and spit long range fire attacks. DkS combat mechanics aren't well designed for those type of combats...

Actually Shadow of Yarman shows how you can do a good gank squad, Ruin Sentinels with their 10 meter swipe attacks and OHK shield throws aren't fun, I'd say that BB combat is more prone for these encounters, unlike the souls series.
 
Skeleton Lords was kinda fun, a bit easy but I don't know why the Shadows of Yharnam are great and this one isn't?

Probably because Shadows are actually difficult? Skeleton Lords feel like three regular enemies made into bosses for no reason. I couldn't believe that was it after beating them.
 
You're in the minority of thinking that.

Is not hard? Well, for BB standards they might not be, but surely they are harder than skeleton lords...

Probably because Shadows are actually difficult? Skeleton Lords feel like three regular enemies made into bosses for no reason. I couldn't believe that was it after beating them.

Skeleton Lords actual difficulty, if we can even call it that, is that they become an army of trash mobs when they die. Team B trademark way to make a hard fight: put more mobs.
 
Is not hard? Well, for BB standards they might not be, but surely they are harder than skeleton lords...

I found the skeleton lords harder by a good margin tbh.

It's not even close to mediocre.

The disjointed world and uninspired bosses are why it's a step short of absolute greatness.

That's the sad thing. To me both DS2 and BB fail for the exact opposite reasons, if you'd had gotten both of their strengths into the same game it could easily be the best game made.
 
I just went through the whole game with SOTFS and the thing that stuck out was the consistently terrible encounter design. Gank, gank, gank. Particularly in the the DLC. The other souls games might throw one at you but usually you'll open up a shortcut afterward and never have to go through it again. You can't pull enemies individually a lot of the time.

Strike damage being consistently better than slash damage (i.e dex weapons).

Too many shitty easy bosses. Bosses have snooze fest patterns then once they stop swinging maybe you can get 1 hit.

Adaptability is a terrible idea. Pursuer grab anyone? Why the fuck can that happen? If they wanted a stat like that it should just effect recovery and distance, not the roll itself. You're investing in freaking i-frames and they're tied to agility which is another stat. The breakpoints for each frame aren't immediately (or at all) apparent and people argued for months about whether the stat even does anything.

I wouldn't say the game is bad it feels like the text book example of sequel syndrome.
 
Skeleton Lords was kinda fun, a bit easy but I don't know why the Shadows of Yharnam are great and this one isn't? Belfry Gargoyles was pretty intense. I don't mind RRV (it's like Celestial Emissary I guess, a weak boss but at least kinda original), RRA was annoying though.

Ruin Sentinels is one of the best bosses in the game. It's actually a "gank squad" done right, unlike the extremely annoying DLC trio.

Skeleton Lords is awful compared to the Shadows of Yharnam. They aren't even remotely similar as boss fights either. Skeleton Lords just plays out with you land a few hits and them turning into a skeleton gank squad. That's the boss fight. Hilariously terrible. Ruin Sentinels is a closer comparison to Shadows of Yharnam and they are both pretty decent bosses.

Royal Rat Vanguard is orders of magnitude worse than Celestial Emissary as well. At least CE powers up and becomes slightly more interesting. RRV does none of that. Pathetic boss.
 
The only problem I have with the game are some terrible hitboxes (Pursuer stab, etc.).

I love everything else about it so guess I'm in the minority.
 
You're in the minority of thinking that.

I wouldnt say they were difficult but definitely challenging and one of the more interesting multi boss battles by From. Shadows is a multi boss fight done right.

Phase 1 just a simple gank squad, phase 2 attacks have way more range to them, phase 3 you have an interesting mechanic where one of the shadows will summon in temporary adds.
 
As someone who has 500+ hours in DS1: nonsense.

Having to run back from the first Anor Londo bonfire or from the bottom of Blighttown to Andre to ascend a weapon is a fucking pain, even with all shortcuts considered.

As someone who has done the same: Different strokes for different folks. I'm someone who really enjoys gameworlds though, and know I don't have a popular opinion on that kind of thing. Worlds, to me, are meant to be traveled though and enjoyed, not just skipped over for convenience. The fact that you do have to make that trek to a blacksmith makes him more then a simple menu in a video game that is only there to power up your weapon, but instead a part of that world.

Also, DS1 has teleporting later on. Maybe, in DS2, you could only do it after killing the main bosses. And, creating shortcuts doesn't mean the world is interconnect. Since it's a game, I find little logic to how they are place. Sometimes, it's simple as just a unlocking a stupid elevator so you are closer to the boss, even BB has lots of them. So, DS2 could have a elevator near the beginning and ending close to the boss. Would that make it better. Nope. Just let at boss already.

The differences is in how the worlds were designed for each. Being able to teleport is always the case in DS2 so there wasn't as big of a pressing need to design the world in a way that you could just travel anywhere in it. That isn't to say that a game with teleporting all the time can't be designed that way, just that DS2 wasn't, and didn't need to be. Design choices change what you are able to "get away" with while making a game. Stuff like having an enemy that aggro you at certain bonfires upon usage, or a group of exploding enemies real close to an important npc that you have to visit a bunch, would have been completely unacceptable if the game wasn't designed around things having a limited respawn, for instance. All the areas basically being direct straight paths away from each other with no connection to return back or interconnection would have been less acceptable if the game didn't just let you teleport back. Those are just the ways game design choices can effect how the gameworld feels and plays.

"Since it is a game" is a terrible reason to just forgo needing to put any extra thought of how the world is designed. One of the reasons the Souls games are so loved by some people is because they don't use those "video gamey" excuses as much as other games tend to do.
 
dark souls seems like a more streamlined game, that saw its audience and hit it, DS2 seemed to want to water the experience down and please everyone
 
I wouldnt say they were difficult but definitely challenging and one of the more interesting multi boss battles by From. Shadows is a multi boss fight done right.

Phase 1 just a simple gank squad, phase 2 attacks have way more range to them, phase 3 you have an interesting mechanic where one of the shadows will summon in temporary adds.

Or you cut them down so fast they feel like trash mobs. Hell even when I went at them under leveled the fight felt very easy, and I wasn't even doing the spread the damage thing you're suppose to do.
 
I think it's a great game, personally.

That said, it does feel kinda generic and uninspired at times. I assume it's mostly because it was a sequel to a very memorable and near perfect game, and because it was made by the B team and thus feels kinda off, especially in terms of world design. I mean, I think DS2 is by far the biggest souls games both in terms of scope, weapons, variety and skill, but it kinda lacks that tightly knit, interwoven gameworld people were expecting after DS1. I guess it feels like more DS, instead of feeling like a new experience.

I also didn't really get into PVP, mainly due to the heavy emphasis on cheap spellcasting and OP builds making most duels kinda bad. I'm a sucker for old school blade duels, and to me Demon's and Dark 1 did that much better. Heck, I prefer the PVP in bloodborne too...

I also think the story left to be desired. Sure, if you dig down deeper and over-analyse it, it does get somewhat compelling (then again, I wonder how much of the plot is a construction by fans and what was actually meant by the developpers, but it does a terrible job and keeping you involved, from a lore perspective. You literally have no idea what you are doing during your first playtrough , and why it's important you acheieve what you do. That whole thing about the dragons, the giants, the emerald Herald, the ancient ones, the throne of want, nothing is clearly explained, hence the narrative does feel kinda convulted and messy.

Demon's did it pretty good when it comes to storytelling. It introduced the nexus as a sort of purgatory, it introduced the maiden in black as a strong character, the monumentals as the individuals keeping the fabric of reality from basically collapsing. You had a clear goal, to stop the old one from engulfing the world in colorless deep fog, and you knew your objective... To defeat strong demons to break the seal to the old one. In the end, you were given a cool choice, to let the old one be lulled to slumber, or to become the demon's servant... A great premise with a great ending imho... It managed to be both abstract and involving to the player.

Dark Souls was also pretty compelling from a lore perspective. The intro cinematic introduced very cool backstory to the world, with the ancient dragons, the great lords finding the flame, then a chosen undead being brought to Lordran. While the first part of the game might have seemed a little shallow (the part where you ring two bells without really knowing why). But this is pretty much a prelude to a deeper quest... By the time you meet up with Frampt, Kaathe and reach Anor Londo, you learn of your true quest, finding and taking out the great lords, acquiring their flame in the process, then choosing either to rule a world a dark lord, or to self-combust to rekindle the flame for another cycle... By the end of the game, the plot makes sense, and the world feels rich and interesting.

Dark Souls 2... Meh. You,re a cursed being that goes to Lordran to try to find a cure, yet never really searches for one. You wander the map "without really knowing why", defeating generic ancient ones that were not introduced to you (well, the talking cat says a couple cryptic quotes about them, but that's far less efficient of introducing them in the intro like DS1 did. Heck, most of the time, I could not even tell the boss was an old one, especially when regular bosses were often more impressive in terms of design. Upon becoming powerful enough, you get to enter the castle, meet the queen, then wander about doing some wierd "going into the dream of giants" stuff to unlock the throne of want, then you realise the Queen wanted the throne for herelf, but you defeat her anway.

Then you get the ending(s), which are basically reskinned , but more ambiguous in their implications endings from DS1. The DLC did help the overall narrative though, putting more emphasis on how the cycle keep repeating and how each king is seduced by a dark queen, which then brings the downfall of the kingdom. It does make the game more interesting and involving.

In BloodBorne, the narrative is imho much stronger too, granted, it starts as a somewhat generic "hunter hunting beast" story, but you quickly realise that much more than that is a stake, with lovecraftian horrors, dream worlds and a "brink of madness" vibe that makes it way more interesting.The end result is imho one of the most interesting narrative in the series, mostly due to the underlying concept of inter-dimensional beings and reality being much more complex that what the common folks can see. I also love how they defined Yarhnam, a very strong location with deep lore, an unique fixation with blood and a culture that's pretty much a cult worshipping the old ones, with people willingly turning themselves into "beasts" by injecting themselves with blood from old ones, while falling victim to the influence of unseen gods. I always had trouble imagining the world of Demon's, Lordran and Drangleic as real places where people could have lived... But to me, Yharnam does feel like a city that could have existed, functionned for years, then kinda lose it due to an over-abundance of beasts they could no longer control. It feels less like a gameworld and more like a real city.

My two cents .
 
Or you cut them down so fast they feel like trash mobs. Hell even when I went at them under leveled the fight felt very easy, and I wasn't even doing the spread the damage thing you're suppose to do.

How did you cut them down so fast that none of those things activated? Genuinely curious. Maybe the memory leak glitch?
 
How did you cut them down so fast that none of those things activated? Genuinely curious. Maybe the memory leak glitch?

Nope, this was after the memory glitch thing was well known. My chikage was just doing insane amounts of damage. Only saw the snake thing pop up once and that was when I was landing the final blow on the last guy.

It's one of the fights in the game that becomes extremely trivial if you do enough damage.
 
Or you cut them down so fast they feel like trash mobs. Hell even when I went at them under leveled the fight felt very easy, and I wasn't even doing the spread the damage thing you're suppose to do.

That definetly....couldn't have happened in my case. They destroy you quite fast if you focus on one...

Nope, this was after the memory glitch thing was well known. My chikage was just doing insane amounts of damage. Only saw the snake thing pop up once and that was when I was landing the final blow on the last guy.

It's one of the fights in the game that becomes extremely trivial if you do enough damage.

Most people wont have the chikage at that point.
 
Nope, this was after the memory glitch thing was well known. My chikage was just doing insane amounts of damage. Only saw the snake thing pop up once and that was when I was landing the final blow on the last guy.

It's one of the fights in the game that becomes extremely trivial if you do enough damage.

Maybe you were slightly overleveled? The chikage is difficult to get at that point in the game IIRC. If you were able to beat
Martyr Logarius
at a relatively low level, of course SOY are going to feel trivial. I beat them on my second try with the Saw Spear and I was just doing average damage I felt. Pretty much everything activated.
 
I think No-man's Wharf is my least favorite level in the entire series. But it's funny. It took me at least 900 billion attempts when I got the game on PS3. I did the entire thing in one go with Scholar of the First Sin.

The bosses are really very weak. I've beaten them all on basically my first try these days. Just strafe a lot. The ruin sentinels still blow.

It's definitely not mediocre though.
 
Agreed, why I added the part about going back on my 2nd playthrough (not NG+) with lower stats and still breezed past them.

Well every fight becomes trivial if you do enough damage. Since you neglect the effect of having to deal with the last and harder phases of the fights.

Took me a couple of third tries in my case and required more than being agressive if you can't do enough damage, which is what most players are gonna experience.
 
I think No-man's Wharf is my least favorite level in the entire series. But it's funny. It took me at least 900 billion attempts when I got the game on PS3. I did the entire thing in one go with Scholar of the First Sin.

The bosses are really very weak. I've beaten them all on basically my first try these days. Just strafe a lot. The ruin sentinels still blow.

It's definitely not mediocre though.

Damn that's crazy, No-man's Wharf is one of my favorites aesthetically, but opinions are opinions.

Anyway, Dark Souls 2 is far from mediocre. Whatever shortcomings it may have compared to the others in the series are minimal, and makes up for in other areas. It's easily one of the best games of its year of release.

A lot of the issues people will harp on about DS2 are present throughout the series but often are overlooked due to nostalgia. I know a lot of people hate on humanoid bosses for whatever reason, even though they are generally the best in the series by far. Sir Alonne, Fume Knight, Ivory King, Artorias, Ornstein and Smough, King Allant and (Bloodborne spoiler)
Gehrman
are all great bosses that are ahead of the pack.
 
If this is what's considered mediocre then we need more mediocre games. The only thing that I found negative with this game were most of the bosses.
 
I enjoyed it more than I enjoy most games in general, but the reason it's not as exciting and captivating as other dark souls game is the world design. It's not cohesive; there's very little sense of placement. Often geography makes absolutely no sense as you morph from one area to the next -- When you consider that one of the most memorable things about Dark Souls 1 was the incredibly consistent, cohesive, and logical game world, it feels very odd to see world design approached in a completely different way.
 
The atmosphere and story doesn't compare at all to DSI, which trounces DSII effortlessly.

Also hits feel like they have less impact. Making contact with an enemy with your weapon in DSI felt a lot more satisfying.

The story is a mess and I really didn't care for the horrendous and uninteresting final boss (DSII vanilla).

Level design is a huge step backwards and the enemy design is unremarkable, especially in comparison to DSI.

It's a disappointment that still manages to be a great game.
 
Probably because Shadows are actually difficult? Skeleton Lords feel like three regular enemies made into bosses for no reason. I couldn't believe that was it after beating them.

Shadows isn't difficult at all. The strategy for both fights was exactly the same, kill the one shooting fire first, dodge, dodge attack, hide behind LoS to heal.

In fact most bosses in Bloodborne are some of the easiest fights in a Souls game to date in my experience. In terms of challenge Martyr Logarius and Gherman are probably the only 2 that weren't faceroll easy.
 
The game wasn't mediocre.

It was just a step down after Demon's and Dark. The world building was the big disappointment for me. Mostly just a bunch of random areas thrown together with little thought put into how it all gels together.

I played through it twice and will buy the remaster at some point.
 
Shadows isn't difficult at all. The strategy for both fights was exactly the same, kill the one shooting fire first, dodge, dodge attack, hide behind LoS to heal.

In fact most bosses in Bloodborne are some of the easiest fights in a Souls game to date in my experience. In terms of challenge Martyr Logarius and Gherman are probably the only 2 that weren't faceroll easy.

I love the Logarius fight because it's a really challenging fight if you haven't mastered the parry mechanics but really easy if you have. It's a fight that can really show the difference between a good and bad player.
 
It's not mediocre, it's just not as charming and well designed as the others. A lot of technical aspects, such as online play, are really good.
 
For me it was having to download a fix for the huge dead zones, on PC at least. And the boring bosses obviously, I ended up playing 50 of my 80 hours on PvP, until everyone went full buff + katanas with their phantom range. I didn't even bother to finish it.
 
To me the thing that makes it a somewhat disappointing Souls game (but still a great video game) is 1) boring level design, both layout-wise and aesthetically, 2) boring enemy/boss design and 3) uninteresting lore that borrows way too heavily from Dark Souls 1. Of course there are exceptions to points 1 and 2, but as a whole it just feels uninspired to me.
 
Ratings should be remade like this.

1= Mediocre
2= Mediocre
3= Mediocre
4= Mediocre
5= Mediocre
6= Mediocre
7= Mediocre
8 =Ok...
9= I might bite and buy it
10= Game of the year!!!

More like

1 - shit
2 - shit
3 - shit
4 - shit
5 - shit
6 - shit
7 - shit
8 - shit
9 - shit
10 - GOAT
 
Shadows isn't difficult at all. The strategy for both fights was exactly the same, kill the one shooting fire first, dodge, dodge attack, hide behind LoS to heal.

In fact most bosses in Bloodborne are some of the easiest fights in a Souls game to date in my experience. In terms of challenge Martyr Logarius and Gherman are probably the only 2 that weren't faceroll easy.

Any argument centered around what bosses are a cake walk and which are difficult is dubious at best. Yes there are some really obvious ones like Pinwheel vs Man Eaters, but the ease of any fight is really dependent on how long it takes you to figure out the pattern/gimmick, and that can vary from person to person. I thought Rom and the Watchdog boss is super easy, where Amelia and Paarl gave me absolute hell my first time.

They're also different games with their own mechanics. I would say the Bloodborne bosses are almost universally more difficult because you don't have access to godly magic that can kill them in 3 hits or stun-lock them like Demon's Souls bosses.
 
It's a great game, I kind of like it more than Dark Souls proper and I don't particularly like Demon's Souls so there is that =P

Also, the bosses were great even if they were more humanoid and I really liked how they also challenge the form that you approached them in previous games, like:

1) Use a shield to absorb attacks and wait for an opening! Not so useful against heavy hitters like
Velsdat
,
Pursuer
or
Vendrick

2) Stay completely near and enemy and wait for an opening! LOL nope against
Smelter Demon

3) Evade/Roll left and right to avoid the enemy attack! Too bad that the best opening against
Aava and the rest of the King's Pets is rolling towards them

That being said, you also notice that the world was built around the discarded torch mechanic so you can feel what areas where meant to be pitch black and how that affected the level design since it made them more easy and boring to navigate.

And omg people, some of you make Team B sound like an insult and don't stop to think that maybe the reason that Dark Souls II is half-baked in some areas could be because the "A Team" and most of the resources were put in Bloodborne. I'm actually really amazed that they managed to make a better game in some areas than the original team =/

EDIT: OH! And the DLC areas > Most areas of DSII and DS... except the
Frigid Outskits =P
 
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