RoadHazard
Gold Member
That's just good, consistent storytelling. Respectful of the original material, one might say.
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What did you think of The Force Awakens?
- Thread starter cereal_killerxx
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That's just good, consistent storytelling. Respectful of the original material, one might say.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
That's funny. First time I saw it I would have given a 6/10.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
A prequel being more or less connected to canon is of less importance to me than how it works as a movie.
I'd assert that if we cleared away all the pain points of TPM and AOTC (and boy, do we know them.. Jar-jar, I don't like sand, kid Anakin, Hayden Anakin, etc etc)... you'd find that underneath it all, TPM is actually the more legitimate and dignified Star Wars movie of the two. (Yes, I'm saying this). Think of the serious plight of the Queen and her scenes dealing with invasion, or Qui-gon's compassionate dialogue with Shmi, or the beautiful choreography of the Maul fight set to a vocal chorus. They made this movie with the intention to create a real film, a new jewel in the saga of adventure filmmaking. Now, they totally fucking failed and the movie is full of juvenile garbage... but the pretense to whimsical dignity is at least there in the mix. Blow away the dust of Farting CGI monsters and Jake Lloyd, and I see underneath it all there is real Star Wars DNA.
In contrast is AOTC, which feels like a fan film made by someone who is socially awkward and doesn't understand human emotions. It doesn't feel like a real movie... the underlying storytelling (the mystery plot, the romance) is misguided at its core. Underlying it all, there is 0% of the original Star Wars magic, except that it gives you "canon". I consider it the far greater sin of the two awful prequels.
I honestly feel like you could saw this about the entire trilogy. A handful of changes could have turned them from really mediocre movies into pretty solid movies. There was a Youtube video I found where someone pitched a few tweaks that made the prequels sound a whole lot more interesting.
I find it objectively difficult to put EP3 below EP1 or 2. There's just a better, more focused plot, improved acting, and a bigger payoff than 1 and 2 combined.
brandonh83
Banned
Top-tier next to Empire.
supermarioworldE
Banned
Meh at best. I would put it ahead of the prequels, but at least those films were entertaining in a brain dead sort of way. TFA, with its retreads of earlier films, and lack of excitement all around left me bored. The new characters were the sole bright spot, and even then, they were just okay. And that basically describes the film for me. It was okay.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
3rd best SW film.
Gets better on repeat viewings.
Story is a little retread, and a few rule violations.
The characters are terrific tho
Gets better on repeat viewings.
Story is a little retread, and a few rule violations.
The characters are terrific tho
If by a few changes you mean completely replacing Anakin with someone who doesn't look like they're auditioning for a Cheerios commercial, sure.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Off topic but your avatar is still top tier
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Oh yeah, 3 is better than 1 or 2.
Yes, Episode 3 is better than both, I saw it again recently to prepare for Rogue One.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
For me, it was my first Star Wars movie in a theatre on opening night, so just being there when the Lucasfilm logo appeared and then watching the title crawl was worth the price of admission. The cheers when Han and Chewie showed up were great, too.
I feel like Episode 3 inherently has a ceiling to its quality because the movie has to pick up the slack and carry the burden of the mistakes of the previous two movies. My biggest complaint with Episode 3 is that it should be an entirely different movie. Anakin should have already transformed into Darth Vader at this point and the movie should have been entirely about the collapse of the Republic, the rise of the Empire, and Vader hunting down and killing the Jedi.
Was expecting an OK movie that would go in one ear and out the other.
I ended up hating it a lot. The movie shoved nostalgia down your throat while also shitting over the old characters and making it so everything they fought for was for nothing, which is the worst of both worlds.
I ended up hating it a lot. The movie shoved nostalgia down your throat while also shitting over the old characters and making it so everything they fought for was for nothing, which is the worst of both worlds.
ShinySylvee
Member
There's a lot of other issues I have with TFA but this highlights what I think is the most undeniable problem I had with it. There's just nothing new in the movie. All the major plot points are ripped out of ANH, all the planets are just brushed up versions of ones we've already seen before with a different name slapped on it, all of the technology is OT stuff with a different coat of paint on it. They have this massive universe that the movie takes place in and they shrink the conflict down so it feels like very little is at stake. Most the major players are either characters from the OT or people related to characters from the OT. People are theorizing that Snoke is Darth Plagueis but honestly that would be a lame reveal to me. I want to give a shit about Snoke because he's an interesting and cool villain, not because I'm told he's some super important character in the Star Wars lore and is otherwise uninteresting. TFA as a whole just feels like a parasite leeching off the world of Star Wars that Lucas built and is just repackaging storylines rather then adding anything new or substantial to the universe. Disney's priorities seem to lie in turning Star Wars into a super safe annual series that is created with the intent of being as inoffensive and likable as possible rather then trying to create something that meaningfully adds to the world that the series takes place in. As flawed as the Prequels are I'd much rather have them where they try to do something new but screw a lot of things up then TFA where they just play it safe and don't really do anything interesting or new.
Yeah, the cheers were really the highlight of the movie.
Strangelove77
Member
It was fine. Solid 7.
JustSomeone
Member
Considering the fact JJ Abrams is not directing it,then yeah,easily
Agreed.
The theater was filled with nothing but die-hard fans and little kids waving their light-sabers around (their parents were cool and took them away right before the movie started), so it made the experience even cooler.
The Scollard
Member
To me, The Force Awakens is probably the best example of a "meh" movie. That's the only thing I feel towards it: "meh". It was competently made, and enjoyable while I watched it, but the more I think about, the more I don't like it. It felt a soulless copy of the original trilogy, appearing pretty on the surface, but ultimately lacking in most of what made the original Star Wars incredible. Sure it's better than the prequels, but that's really not a high bar to clear. It's definitely pales in comparison to any of the OT.
I really wanted to like this movie when I first saw it. I like the actors in it, even though I thought most of the characters were bland. The story just felt like a bunch of things happening in succession, with no reason why they were happening. It honestly felt like the writers wrote themselves into a corner several times, and would just think up the lamest excuses to get themselves out ("R2D2 wakes up", "Rey knows how to do a Jedi Mind Trick", "Stromtroopers attack").
Though I can understand why people like Kylo Ren's character and like that he's intentionally a Vader fanboy who can't live up to his idol, I feel I can also see why people are complaining about that aspect of him. The problem isn't that his character isn't formidable; it's that none of the other villains are formidable either, even when the story is trying to get you to take the First Order seriously, and that's where I feel most of the complaints about his character originate from. The movie doesn't really have any badass villains like Vader was in the first movie. Aside from Kylo, there's Snoke, who we know next to nothing about (The Emperor in ESB was a bit like this, but for him, you knew that he had control of the entire galaxy and was the head of the Empire, which made him formidable). There's Hux, who's... a thing I guess. Tarkin worked because he was played by Peter Cushing. He looked like a guy who had experience and he also had that scene where he blew up Alderaan despite Leia telling him what he wanted. Hux really had none of that; his speech towards the Stormtroopers was more cheesy than chilling. Then there's Captain Phasma, who's thrown into a garbage bin.
I feel the movie wanted to have its cake and eat it too when it came to the villains. It wanted to have a conflicted villain who wasn't a complete badass like Vader, but it also wanted The First Order to be a formidable enemy, but didn't go through the effort to make any of the First Order villains memorable or something to be feared. That's mainly where I think the Ren complaints come from.
I feel him and Hux would have worked better if The First Order was smaller, more like a guerilla/terrorist group than Definitely-Not-The-Same-As-The-Empire. Then you could have the entire group feel like they're trying to be the Empire, but aren't. Their differences from the Empire could be used to make them formidable; maybe because they're not in charge, they're more dangerous, like a rat backed into a corner.
Anyway, I rate TFA lower than any of the OT, but higher than any of the prequels. It's meh, that's all.
I really wanted to like this movie when I first saw it. I like the actors in it, even though I thought most of the characters were bland. The story just felt like a bunch of things happening in succession, with no reason why they were happening. It honestly felt like the writers wrote themselves into a corner several times, and would just think up the lamest excuses to get themselves out ("R2D2 wakes up", "Rey knows how to do a Jedi Mind Trick", "Stromtroopers attack").
Though I can understand why people like Kylo Ren's character and like that he's intentionally a Vader fanboy who can't live up to his idol, I feel I can also see why people are complaining about that aspect of him. The problem isn't that his character isn't formidable; it's that none of the other villains are formidable either, even when the story is trying to get you to take the First Order seriously, and that's where I feel most of the complaints about his character originate from. The movie doesn't really have any badass villains like Vader was in the first movie. Aside from Kylo, there's Snoke, who we know next to nothing about (The Emperor in ESB was a bit like this, but for him, you knew that he had control of the entire galaxy and was the head of the Empire, which made him formidable). There's Hux, who's... a thing I guess. Tarkin worked because he was played by Peter Cushing. He looked like a guy who had experience and he also had that scene where he blew up Alderaan despite Leia telling him what he wanted. Hux really had none of that; his speech towards the Stormtroopers was more cheesy than chilling. Then there's Captain Phasma, who's thrown into a garbage bin.
I feel the movie wanted to have its cake and eat it too when it came to the villains. It wanted to have a conflicted villain who wasn't a complete badass like Vader, but it also wanted The First Order to be a formidable enemy, but didn't go through the effort to make any of the First Order villains memorable or something to be feared. That's mainly where I think the Ren complaints come from.
I feel him and Hux would have worked better if The First Order was smaller, more like a guerilla/terrorist group than Definitely-Not-The-Same-As-The-Empire. Then you could have the entire group feel like they're trying to be the Empire, but aren't. Their differences from the Empire could be used to make them formidable; maybe because they're not in charge, they're more dangerous, like a rat backed into a corner.
Anyway, I rate TFA lower than any of the OT, but higher than any of the prequels. It's meh, that's all.
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
im not a big star wars fan but i thought it was a bit too cheesy and reminiscing though i suppose that was the point
so it was an "ok" flix, that i regret buying
edit:
on a side note, i was excited for Rogue One but when i saw Diego Luna in the casting my interest plummeted.
so it was an "ok" flix, that i regret buying
edit:
on a side note, i was excited for Rogue One but when i saw Diego Luna in the casting my interest plummeted.
Muffdraul
Member
I thought it was pretty good, for fan fiction. I'm one of those weird people who didn't hate prequels and am not enthusiastic about SW sans Lucas. I enjoyed it, but it's my least favorite SW movie on principle. I let some co-worker friends drag me to a theater last year. As for Rogue One, I'm definitely waiting for blu-ray this time. The trailers did nothing for me but turn me off.
CopperPuppy
Member
Though I still love it, my opinion of it has evolved over time. For me, it actually represents the only real difficult spot I have in ranking the films:
1. ESB
2. ANH
3/4. ROTJ
3/4. TFA
5. ROTS
6. TPM
7. AOTC
I go back and forth on the relative placements of ROTJ and TFA, because both films have clear flaws but very high highs. ROTJ is truly great from the beginning through Luke's return to Dagobah, only to become uneven once the film reaches Endor all the way through to the end. As for TFA, while I think it's an excellent film and, more importantly, a great Star Wars film, it suffers a bit from being foundational in nature and unabashedly nostalgia-driven, as opposed to standing entirely on its own two feet.
Don't get me wrong, I love both ROTJ and TFA. We really only reach my major grievances once we hit number five on the list - ROTS on
down.
Also, this:
I very much agree with all of this.
1. ESB
2. ANH
3/4. ROTJ
3/4. TFA
5. ROTS
6. TPM
7. AOTC
I go back and forth on the relative placements of ROTJ and TFA, because both films have clear flaws but very high highs. ROTJ is truly great from the beginning through Luke's return to Dagobah, only to become uneven once the film reaches Endor all the way through to the end. As for TFA, while I think it's an excellent film and, more importantly, a great Star Wars film, it suffers a bit from being foundational in nature and unabashedly nostalgia-driven, as opposed to standing entirely on its own two feet.
Don't get me wrong, I love both ROTJ and TFA. We really only reach my major grievances once we hit number five on the list - ROTS on
and on, and on, and on, and on
Also, this:
I very much agree with all of this.
This says it all. It was a magical experience at the movies. Hit all the right notes.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Better than the entire prequel trilogy with the best dialogue and acting in a star wars film, they remembered how to write dialogue. Also this is gonna be remembered for years to come not just because of how epic it is but because of what it represents:
Not a single second of the prequels stands up to this moment.
Not a single second of the prequels stands up to this moment.
Better than the entire prequel trilogy with the best dialogue and acting in a star wars film, they remembered how to write dialogue. Also this is gonna be remembered for years to come not just because of how epic it is but because of what it represents:
Not a single second of the prequels stands up to this moment.
I'm so glad I purposely didn't click on the toys cus this would've gotten spoiled for me.
That and the music that accompanies it was great.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I still wonder what rehashing ANH really bought Lucasfilm/Disney/JJ.
Was it a necessary design focus for them to recreate the magic of Star Wars? I doubt that. Maybe they were feeling rushed for time so they cynically charged off in this direction as an excercise in recreating the Star Wars formula. Maybe it was more training for the team to calibrate the coming Star Wars churning machine, rather than a decision to make a better movie.
Do people love the rehash angle? I'd argue that almost no one does. People love TFA in spite of its rehash elements. The best viewer would be blissfully unaware that it was a rehash at all. Yes, viewers loved that it had the flavour of the OT again... but this really just means X-wings, stormtroopers, lightsabers... this appeal could have been created aesthetically without robbing the actual plot points from ANH.
And for those of us who do notice the rehash? It's a constant derail. It derailed some of us in the theatre, taking us out of the movie. It derails how we think about the movie in the rear-view mirror ("yes I had fun but i can't unsee the process they used to make it"). It even derails discussions like this one.
(<--- part of the problem).
I'm gonna say it was a mistake. Everything good about TFA was completely in spite of it being an ANH clone. The same story about Rey and Finn and Kylo and the classic heroes would have been well received if it wasn't another desert planet, another Death Star, etc etc.
Was it a necessary design focus for them to recreate the magic of Star Wars? I doubt that. Maybe they were feeling rushed for time so they cynically charged off in this direction as an excercise in recreating the Star Wars formula. Maybe it was more training for the team to calibrate the coming Star Wars churning machine, rather than a decision to make a better movie.
Do people love the rehash angle? I'd argue that almost no one does. People love TFA in spite of its rehash elements. The best viewer would be blissfully unaware that it was a rehash at all. Yes, viewers loved that it had the flavour of the OT again... but this really just means X-wings, stormtroopers, lightsabers... this appeal could have been created aesthetically without robbing the actual plot points from ANH.
And for those of us who do notice the rehash? It's a constant derail. It derailed some of us in the theatre, taking us out of the movie. It derails how we think about the movie in the rear-view mirror ("yes I had fun but i can't unsee the process they used to make it"). It even derails discussions like this one.
(<--- part of the problem).
I'm gonna say it was a mistake. Everything good about TFA was completely in spite of it being an ANH clone. The same story about Rey and Finn and Kylo and the classic heroes would have been well received if it wasn't another desert planet, another Death Star, etc etc.
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
I enjoyed it even if it recycled a lot of the same elements of New Hope. It falls between Jedi and RotS for me.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Good 7/10 IMO. It's good but not great. I'm glad people enjoyed it, though.
Trigonometrize.
Member
This mentality to me seems like a huge dismissal of everyone at Lucasfilm that has been working hard for decades on both past and present Star Wars films. Lucas did some incredible things for the franchise and the medium, but he even chose not to direct Empire and Jedi coming off the production disaster of the original. He's not the only one that has ever contributed to making Star Wars awesome before and after the Disney acquisition. But that's just my opinion.
Yeah, as someone that mostly loved TFA, I don't buy into the idea that JJ and Lucasfilm """needed""" to get people back on board with Star Wars with a plot recycling many things in the original trilogy. They really could've tried something different and it would've been fine. As you said, I love it in spite of the rehash, because so many of the other things are done so well, especially coming off of Jedi chronologically and ROTS real world.
sixteen-bit
Member
A rip-roaring thrill ride that's fun for the whole family.
Thing that still bugs me about it is that Abrams had no fucking sense of scale and the movie's constantly waving that around. Whatever Lucas does wrong with characterization and script, you could tell the man cared about creating a somewhat consistent world, The Force Awakens blows up "those guys who aren't the rebels" almost offscreen just to write the New Republic out of the sequel trilogy, makes it so that the New Republic fleet is only based around that one planet, makes it so that the planet blowing up can be *seen* from other planets, Starkiller base itself is like some 13-year-old fan looked at the ridiculousness of the Sun Crusher and said "feh, i can top that," and hyperspace travel is now implied at minutes instead of hours-to-days.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yes, literally the last SW movie that people had seen in theaters was a terrible CGI film, with a show that by all means was a flop despite it's excellent quality, we absolutely needed a great film that's a modern take on SW that also does the really arduous task of bringing magic back into the series. With actors that actually have some form of chemistry, with dialogue that sounds like the writers had a conversation with another human being, with good humor, with a female lead that women can look up to, with a grounded lightsaber fight that actually has some emotional weight, a film with genuine emotion in general instead of bored actors doing their damndest not to fall asleep, with a critique on the idea of trying to make a villain as good as vader, with a new threat and interesting lore, we absolutely needed these things and on all accounts we got it.
FairFriend
Member
ESB > ANH > ROTS > ROTJ > TPM > TFA > AOTC
Personally I think there was nothing compelling in it. TPM at least had a wonderful soundtrak, beautiful art direction and locations (those which were not cgi, at least), a great young Kenobi and Darth Maul and Qui-gon.
TFA looked bland, the new characters were not interesting the least, the soundtrack was underwhelming and the only emotional moment (you know which one) worked only due to the affection developed in the previous movies for a certain character (nothing TFA can take any merit for).
Personally I think there was nothing compelling in it. TPM at least had a wonderful soundtrak, beautiful art direction and locations (those which were not cgi, at least), a great young Kenobi and Darth Maul and Qui-gon.
TFA looked bland, the new characters were not interesting the least, the soundtrack was underwhelming and the only emotional moment (you know which one) worked only due to the affection developed in the previous movies for a certain character (nothing TFA can take any merit for).
Trigonometrize.
Member
World building was no steps forward, two steps back in TFA. Everything felt rushed so we could get to a good scenario for action battles and space opera-ass character moments. And while those action battles and character moments to me were worth it, VIII is going to have to patch up a lot of the things you mentioned I think.
I think that emotional moment was earned. All of Han and Carry Fisher's scenes felt really warm and made perfect sense to me that it would work out this way. You could always tell that Kylo was probably not going to come back to the light so easily, so it was basically a warm gesture by Han to show Leia that he still loves her. That all was certainly better than whatever the hell Han was doing in Jedi.
Into the Light
Banned
there were some beautiful shots in this movie.
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