• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

What do you consider an RPG?

I was making fun of people who always insist Zelda is not an RPG no matter what.

It's not, though.

There's no random element involved, and there's no abstracted system of character advancement (aka stats) that has an impact on your combat effectiveness. You might as well call Metroid an RPG because you get missile tanks and health upgrades.
 
Dark Souls

has a story (could be expansive or bare bones), has character(s) you play as either alone or as a party, stats that can be changed in some way either through leveling or some other process, some kind of currency system to buy/sell stuff like equipment or other things that can influence those aforementioned stats, can be action or turn based
 
It's not, though.

There's no random element involved, and there's no abstracted system of character advancement (aka stats) that has an impact on your combat effectiveness. You might as well call Metroid an RPG because you get missile tanks and health upgrades.
You say it like it's laughable.... But I bet if you went back to 1986, more people would have at least recognized that the development of Samus is a mechanic borrowed from RPGs.

It's hard to see that now after 30 years of action games where you build up the character.

Many genres have appropriated so many things that were once the domain of RPGs. I remember when people would describe River City Ransom as a beat em up/RPG hybrid because it has a shop. But now tons of action games have shops...

Anyway, just musing on RPG mechanics. Obviously Metroid is not an RPG. I just think it does have a mechanic whose lineage probably does come originally from pen and paper logic.
 
For years and years I only thought of JRPGs as RPGs. Now it seems like any game that isn't a platformer or a puzzle game has RPG elements.
 
RPGs died in video games. Save for a few rare exceptions the whole role-playing aspect has been severely deflated into nothing. If you want RPGs, then you have to go back to tabletops unfortunately.

Also anyone who says Zelda is an RPG is so wrong that I have to believe they are trolling at this point.
 
Zelda is probably my favorite RPG series, though I also love plenty of traditional RPG's. If anything, I consider games more along a "spectrum" than specific criteria of definition, e.g. System Shock can rest comfortably within the spectrum of both shooters and RPG's.

Your favorite RPG series isn't a RPG series, lol.

Zelda isn't even a half RPG like an action-RPG.
 
RPGs died in video games. Save for a few rare exceptions the whole role-playing aspect has been severely deflated into nothing. If you want RPGs, then you have to go back to tabletops unfortunately.

Also anyone who says Zelda is an RPG is so wrong that I have to believe they are trolling at this point.
I don't think this is totally true, but having gone back to tabletop over the past year, I have to say that the experience is just overwhelming great in comparison to what most video game "RPGs" offer.
 
I don't think this is totally true, but having gone back to tabletop over the past year, I have to say that the experience is just overwhelming great in comparison to what most video game "RPGs" offer.

I was being a hyperbolic RPG purist. I emphasize the 'role-playing' aspect of RPG. If my freedom of playing a role is hindered then I don't see how it can accurately be called a role-playing game. I know RPG has come to mean "things with levels, stats, etc." but then it becomes a misnomer to call everything with those a "role-playing game". Half the "RPG" I see these days would be like calling later Metal Gear Solid entries a 'First Person Shooter' just because you can aim down the barrel.
 
I am amused that quite a few people's definition of RPG in this thread discounts things like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy from being RPGs.

I don't know if other people do the same, but I always make the distinction that those are JRPGs. Very few JRPGs feel like actual role-playing games (comparing them to the likes of Fallout 1/2, Baldur's Gate, Pillars, etc).

The Zelda situation gets blurry for me because these days with the way JRPGs have evolved in all honestly Zelda has just about as many role-playing aspects and in many cases much more explorations. Having a main character that cannot be customized is something plenty of JRPGs do. Chrono Trigger for example the customization is superficial at best.
 
I don't know if other people do the same, but I always make the distinction that those are JRPGs. Very few JRPGs feel like actual role-playing games (comparing them to the likes of Fallout 1/2, Baldur's Gate, Pillars, etc).

I am like this. I call them JRPG for the sake of simplicity, but all while maintaining the distinction for myself. A JRPG sacrifices the role-playing to shoehorn in a narrative and set cast of characters. Which is fine, I love many JRPG, but more often than not they are extremely weak examples of a Role-Playing Game.
 
I consider JRPGs RPGs dammit...
I consider Skyrim, Fallout, Dark Souls and Dragon Age as WRPGs.
I consider Mass Effect as Third Person shooter with a little bit of RPG elements.

:|
 
I definitely can't get behind this idea that a game must have story choices to be a true RPG. Even Tabletop RPGs aren't rigidly about that. To act like purely mechanical dungeon crawls or games where the party layout is a higher priority than the plot are inferior as a result is revisionist elitism.
 
Nearly every game has RPG elements to it these days, especially since CoD Modern Warfare popularised leveling up stats as a game mechanic in a genre that hadn't much done that before.

I personally don't see Zelda as an RPG, due to the immediacy of the combat style.
 
Excuse me, is Monster Hunter an RPG? Monster hunting games kinda make me confused.
Looking at the mechanics of Monster Hunter, it's a multiplayer character action game consisting entirely of boss fights. Considering how the genre has its roots in PSO it's really only a hair's breadth away from being an RPG and wouldn't object to anyone naming it such.
 
Statistics that determine outcomes of actions; RNG or not.
+
Character development, customisation and statistics.
+
A story that progresses as the character get further in the gameworld.
=
RPG
 
I think it's funny that many so people swear by D&D to define an RPG.

RPGs existed before D&D and there's no reason you can't make an RPG that isn't based on D&D mechanics.
 
Statistics that determine outcomes of actions; RNG or not.
+
Character development, customisation and statistics.
+
A story that progresses as the character get further in the gameworld.
=
RPG

I don't think stories are all that important to something being an RPG. Dungeon Crawlers are most definitely RPGs, and some of them are pretty sparse of character/story development. Desktop Dungeons for example.
 
Statistics that determine outcomes of actions; RNG or not.
+
Character development, customisation and statistics.
+
A story that progresses as the character get further in the gameworld.
=
RPG

the last one isn't even necessary, really

when we're talking about game genres, what we're really talking about is, "what are the gameplay systems in this game?"

I'd actually classify the more traditional Rogue-likes as RPGs, and those don't really have any story to speak of.
 
Anything that values character progression, typically stat progression, over flat stat combat (i.e. what you start the game out with is what you get: Bayonetta's guns at the start of the game are no better at the end of the game). To me, that growth is part of what defines an RPG.

Zelda is sorta ish an RPG, but there's not that much in terms of actual progression.
 
Uhm, your character is defined by their stats, skills (theoreticaly speechcraft) and character traits (prejudice, fears, moralcodex etc), culture, profession.
Personality is the spice on the dish called character, but even that is influenced by attributes like courage, intelligence, charisma, skills like etiquette, being a cliché dwarf (T_T)...

It's less confusing if you know the history of where tabletop role-playing came from.

Tabletop wargaming involved recreating historical battles, but the leader of one group in Minnesota was starting to get a little bored of it. He decided to spice things up by including additional characters: instead of just two generals battling each other, he added characters like a town mayor and a university chancellor, each assigned to a player.

These characters had no armies.Their purpose was to make character-driven decisions while interacting with each other. They could even go in another room to make private deals, so no one knew who might betray who. Playing a role like this became known as "role-playing." This was essentially the first role-playing game.

A guy named Dave Arneson was in that group. He decided to lead a similar campaign of roles, but he'd also been reading Lord Of The Rings. Instead of a historical military setting, he decided to set it in a fantasy world. He called this campaign Blackmoor. However, some players were frustrated with the lack of structure of early Blackmoor. Arneson was more into the storytelling potential of having individuals act out characters within an author's story, but some players wanted proper game mechanics they could fall back on. Arneson and his group decided to try adapting Gary Gygax's Chainmail rules to individual players rather than armies.

That worked out okay for awhile, but eventually Arneson approached Gygax directly about creating a proper rule set. This collaboration became Dungeons & Dragons.

Character-building with stats was not role-playing. Character-building in terms of character and personality was role-playing, and the stats were there as structure for the battles.


If you reduce the term RPG for games to personality based choices there's like nothing left as RPG-game since most games that allow different dialog don't lock you in (in a personality) as far as I remember/played right now (IS there a game that recognizes shizophrenic choices?).

Games with character interaction like Mass Effect (which hail back to much earlier games like Star Control 2 and the even earlier Starflight) are the closest we have right now. You could even say Telltale's The Walking Dead is closer to true roleplaying than stat-driven games like Wizardry, Ultima, and Dragon's Quest and the games it inspired. But technology is still too limited to really give players the full freedom of a proper DM-and-player role-playing experience.
 
I just realized that all the RPG history I dropped in my previous two posts probably make my stance on "what is an RPG" confusing. Here's the short version:

- Role-playing games were originally games where people played a role within a scenario, making story decisions for their character. There weren't even stats originally.

- The meaning of words change all the time. Today "RPG" refers to games in which the purpose of earning points isn't to get a high score, but to increase your character's stats. Even though stat-building is not role-playing in a strict sense, there's nothing we can do that will change what "RPG" has come to mean. Though "XPG" would be more fitting.

- Games which include XP and levels but where gaining levels is not the purpose of the game (for example, multiplayer games that let you level up, but where the main focus is on winning that round) are not RPGs, but contain "RPG elements."

- Legend Of Zelda does not qualify as an RPG under any of these definitions.
 
RPGs can be hard to define stringently but like pornography you will know it when you see it.

Not quite like I would've have put it... but yes. That's what this entire thread boils down to.

"Needs to have stats" - plenty examples of games that are considered RPGs and they don't have stats. Deus Ex - HR for example
"Customizable player character" - Deus Ex, Gothic and Witcher games are all accepted as RPGs even though they don't have that
"Main quest and sidequests" - S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games have these, almost never seen them referred to as RPGs
"Player choice" - from what I hear, nonexistent in Fallout 4, only options are to accept a quest or not, almost like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. above, yet it's considered an RPG
"Random Number Geezus" - praise to Him, but plenty of games don't have it and are considered RPGs, plenty games have it and aren't

It goes on and on and on, for every example there's a counter example. The only thing left is "I know it when I see it."
 
RPG to me is when you can customize and build your character (in any way). You're trying to build a character, that's what an RPG is, building a role for the character and able to progress that character throughout the game.
 
Top Bottom