Original Castlevania was hard. CV3 and Rondo? Not as much.
My entry:
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What hard-as-nails 2D platformer is your personal favorite?
- Thread starter ScOULaris
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Original Castlevania was hard. CV3 and Rondo? Not as much.
My entry:
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
3 is definitely harder than the first game (especially if we're talking about the US version). Rondo though, yeah, nowhere near as hard (although there are a ton of games in this thread that are as easy to beat as Rondo, if not more so).
Gangster Bastard
Member
I like Ghouls 'n Ghosts a lot, even though I've only ever gotten to the third level.
I agree with this. I'm not even sure I would consider Super Meat Boy hard-as-nails, you die a lot but you don't really lose any progress so it's rather like playing with save states. Very casual experience overall. It can never be as engaging as a classic arcade game where you truly fear death.
eot
Banned
Dustforce got quite difficult very fast since you had to do the levels perfectly to progress. Personally I found the controls fiddly, there are too many inputs and I hated how you had to spam dash so much to get a competitive time. You're right that it can feel fluid at times, but missing just one speck of dust can make a section impossible to complete and even if it doesn't you feel so damn sluggish when you lose your combo. Having to do 2+ minute long levels perfectly probably isn't most people's cup of tea. For me it was mostly that I didn't get along with the controls (SMB for example has way fewer inputs but the amount of movement options is still massive, I think Dustforce tries to add complexity just by adding more inputs).
La Mulana
For starters the soundtrack is amazing!
Secondly the game is cute and funny, with amazing, unique and memorable monster designs. It's full of personality yet doesn't lose it's atmosphere when it needs it.
This game is HARD, admittedly I needed a guide to get through some parts but it still felt amazing to complete. Its design is similar to a Metroidvania and easily stands shoulder to shoulder with Super Metroid & Symphony of the Night in terms of level design & soundtrack IMO.
I felt the same way playing this as I did Dark Souls and I can't wait for La Mulana 2
For starters the soundtrack is amazing!
Secondly the game is cute and funny, with amazing, unique and memorable monster designs. It's full of personality yet doesn't lose it's atmosphere when it needs it.
This game is HARD, admittedly I needed a guide to get through some parts but it still felt amazing to complete. Its design is similar to a Metroidvania and easily stands shoulder to shoulder with Super Metroid & Symphony of the Night in terms of level design & soundtrack IMO.
I felt the same way playing this as I did Dark Souls and I can't wait for La Mulana 2
themagicalkitsune
Member
Super Meat Boy perfected the art of platforming.
Right?! I'd rebuy that in a heartbeat.
Ghosts and Goblins / Ghouls and Ghosts is another great mention.
The US Version of CV3 is a step above the original Japanese release, I'd say it can actually be harder than the original in places.
Rondo isn't harder than CV1 or 3, but it's still a worthy "ClassicVania" in the difficulty department. Certainly more than the other two I mentioned and definitely more than the Castlevania games that have come after.
Exactly. Even when a Castlevania game is easy for the series, it's still toughter than most games.
Another good one, I don't know that I've ever beaten the original.
The US Version of CV3 is a step above the original Japanese release, I'd say it can actually be harder than the original in places.
Rondo isn't harder than CV1 or 3, but it's still a worthy "ClassicVania" in the difficulty department. Certainly more than the other two I mentioned and definitely more than the Castlevania games that have come after.
Exactly. Even when a Castlevania game is easy for the series, it's still toughter than most games.
Another good one, I don't know that I've ever beaten the original.
brandonh83
Banned
It's a good game, I just don't like the "fuck you" design philosophy of games like it or say... well there was one sorta recently that was basically a shmup version of a platformer, something about clouds or some shit that just looked dumb.
I like more methodical platformers, where you move forward and encounter challenges rather being thrown into a gauntlet and that's basically all there is to it. Stuff like Castlevania, Donkey Kong Country (especially Tropical Freeze), Metroid, Mario etc. is my jam.
Also: Castlevania III is hard as fuck lol. I finished the original once, but can only do CV3 with save states. Which is cheating big time I know, but I at least wanted to get through the adventure. That level with the falling blocks that goes on forever and then has a three-boss gauntlet can piss right off, and the level shortly after if not directly after when you're in the aqueduct, that boss is a cunt.
banefirelord
Banned
Never actually finished it, but Super Meat Boy has made it hard to play a lot of other 2D platformers. Love the way it feels and controls.
mrmickfran
Member
I beat this without savestates with a keyboard:
+1 for the Prinny games.
If you haven't played them, they are a special kind of hell that comes off as a cross between Castlevania 1's platforming controls and Megaman 2's jump and shoot stages.
You're a penguin monster that dual-wields swords that shoot laser beams and you die via explosion if you get stared at too hard. Or well, 1000 penguin monsters, anyway. The lore is something like the main character being an army of penguin monsters but you only play as one at a time?
But yeah, the game is a saturday-morning-cartoony ball of masochistic fun. I'd definitely recommend it to people. In the same way that I'd recommend "I Wanna Be The Guy" to them.
If you haven't played them, they are a special kind of hell that comes off as a cross between Castlevania 1's platforming controls and Megaman 2's jump and shoot stages.
You're a penguin monster that dual-wields swords that shoot laser beams and you die via explosion if you get stared at too hard. Or well, 1000 penguin monsters, anyway. The lore is something like the main character being an army of penguin monsters but you only play as one at a time?
But yeah, the game is a saturday-morning-cartoony ball of masochistic fun. I'd definitely recommend it to people. In the same way that I'd recommend "I Wanna Be The Guy" to them.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
Another vote for La Mulana.
I don't quite understand the fiddly/complex/too many inputs complaint. The only extra inputs it has over SMB are the attacks, but using them is pretty straightforward. There's dashing, but if I remember correctly SMB has a run button so that's not really an extra input. I'm aware some people don't like it's approach to the controls though. For me, the way you move in Dustforce is much better than SMB which always felt a bit too slippery.
Spamming dash also isn't really a thing, since it doesn't actually make you faster once you've already gained some speed. Using dashing properly is necessary, but you have to use it properly. As for the complaints about the combo system - doing levels perfectly is sort of the point of these kinds of games, isn't it? In SMB, if you don't do a level perfectly you just die outright. Dustforce drops your combo instead and allows you to keep going, even letting you partially progress through the game without perfecting every level, although you do eventually have to do that.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
eot
Banned
The attacks are directional. Can't remember if they're 4-way or 8-way but regardless there are way more inputs to contend with (SMB essentially just had three, you almost never walk). Anyway the actual number isn't important, I'm not saying it's bad it's just not something I enjoy. I didn't grow up playing stuff like fighting games where a lot of the challenge revolves around giving very specific inputs from a large set of possible ones and it's never been something I've gotten along with (probably why I stayed away from those games).
SMB is more enjoyable for me because when I fail it's never because screwed up giving the input I wanted, it's because I gave the wrong one. For other people it might be different. I spent a lot of time with the game, chasing the leaderboards when it first came out but in the end it started to frustrate me in a way SMB and many other games don't. I strongly disagree that SMB levels have to be played perfectly though, that is not true at all. There are lots of mechanics in the game that let you fail without dying. Fans for example, just to name one.
Toadthemushroom
Member
DKC: Tropical Freeze.
It's a bit like the Uncharted of platformers, in that it's heavily set-piece driven with pieces of the environment falling around you (and beneath you). Unlike a lot of "super hard" platformers, the great thing about Tropical Freeze is, for the most part, it gives you enough wriggle room to tackle its challenges without feeling cheap.
Many games are super hard only because the designer has created a challenge that requires a very specific set of movements or inputs to solve, and the player ends up trying to replicate those through trial and error (see those super hard Mario Maker levels which are actually fairly easy to create compared to a more flexible, "Nintendo-hard" like setup). DKC TF rarely falls into this trap of cheap trial-and-error gameplay that provides relief to the player, but not satisfaction.
I really liked Super Meat Boy too, due to the flexibility of the controls. Some of the bosses relied heavily on rote memorisation though.
It's a bit like the Uncharted of platformers, in that it's heavily set-piece driven with pieces of the environment falling around you (and beneath you). Unlike a lot of "super hard" platformers, the great thing about Tropical Freeze is, for the most part, it gives you enough wriggle room to tackle its challenges without feeling cheap.
Many games are super hard only because the designer has created a challenge that requires a very specific set of movements or inputs to solve, and the player ends up trying to replicate those through trial and error (see those super hard Mario Maker levels which are actually fairly easy to create compared to a more flexible, "Nintendo-hard" like setup). DKC TF rarely falls into this trap of cheap trial-and-error gameplay that provides relief to the player, but not satisfaction.
I really liked Super Meat Boy too, due to the flexibility of the controls. Some of the bosses relied heavily on rote memorisation though.
CarbonFire
Member
Super Meat Boy, definitely. The controls are just so tight, just pure hard-as-balls platforming.
That game was such an enormous ego boost for me. My gf at the time insisted we play through it and would consistently die and watch in awe as I breezed through the rest of the stage on my first try.
Poimandres
Member
Can't have this thread without mentioning how great Battletoads is. It's more of a beat em up than a platformer though.
Good to see Prinny getting a few mentions. Just about broke my PSP from button mashing on the final boss.
Super Meat Boy is probably my favourite. It just plays so damn well!
Good to see Prinny getting a few mentions. Just about broke my PSP from button mashing on the final boss.
Super Meat Boy is probably my favourite. It just plays so damn well!
That's nothing. I damn near broke my arm from mashing so hard in the optional
Etna
Davey Cakes
Member
On Hard Mode, Cave Story is really hard, yeah. Mostly due to the bosses. It was a mode added after the initial release so it's not correctly balanced. Playing through Cave Story with most enemies killing you in a single hit is quite a trial.
That said, the base game, even on Normal Mode, is pretty manageable, save the
Blood Stained Sanctuary
I also don't count La Mulana as "hard as nails" because the gameplay and bosses aren't that hard. The thing that makes La Mulana a challenge is its puzzling nature. I still haven't completed it merely because I keep forgetting one single detail that keeps me from progressing.
My favorite example is definitely Super Meat Boy. It's hard but also lets you get as many chances in quick succession as you need. It doesn't waste time, and that's why I think it works even though the later dark world stages can drive you to insanity.
If Tropical Freeze counts then yeah, it's phenomenal too. Fun, aesthetically pleasing, with an amazing soundtrack.
Valjean Lafitte
Banned
Metroid and Metroid II. Apparently their lack of any kind of map system makes them dated and virtually unplayable, i.e. good.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Right now its Donkey Kong Country and Rayman Legends. Games are phenomenal.
Now that you mention it, some of the movement systems in Dustforce are pretty similar to fighting games (airdashing in particular, and the attacks of course). That's kind of why I like it so much i think - I've always loved the really precise, snappy movement that you get in games like Guilty Gear and Blaze Blue. If you don't like that sort of thing i can see where you're coming from. For me, it just clicked better than any other platformer.
As for the "playing perfectly" part, I meant it more in the sense that these kind of games are defined by things like almost pixel perfect jumps and other such sequences that basically have to be done perfectly. The levels in Dustforce are pretty long, and they never give you any breaks, but I've never minded that.
Davey Cakes
Member
Did you get the best ending via the
Blood Stained Sanctuary
Otherwise it's pretty standard.
EDITED for spoilers.
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
I like 1001 Spikes.
Nah, I've done it. You don't have to do it on hard for the "Clear Hard Mode" achievement though.
Davey Cakes
Member
Yeah, thankfully. I got the achievement with Easy mode so I figured Hard would be the same. The best ending is a special case.
Also, holy shit dude. Congrats. The best ending on Hard is something I'd consider a top tier gaming accomplishment.
LOL, some levels are insane hard.
If you like Kaizo style levels, I attempted making one. Its doable but nobody completed it for real yet...
The Jimbotron
Thanks. Sanctuary Time Attack S rank (<3 minutes) is even harder though.
Wowfunhappy
Member
VVVVVV.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Gotta go with Super Meat Boy. I love that game too much.