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What if Bayonetta 2 was developed by a Western developer

There'd be a lot of "FUCK YOU'S" and forced abortion scenes because obviously Bayonetta isn't edgy enough. Father Balder (mispronounced Father Boulder) would be a fat, middle-aged bald man with a feather-patterened tie and his major goal would be to control the world through the Catholic religion. Of course this means he has to threaten the Pope at the start of the game to establish his villainy.

Luka (hereafter voiced by Robert Downey Junior) is out for revenge against Bayonetta after he witnesses (kinda real early Bayonetta spoiler)
her kill his father (who is actually also Balder and they are siblings because Twist.

Fly Me To The Moon? Nah, too Japanesey. Lets have The Glitch Mob do the soundtrack.

I call it BaYonEttA.
 
It would have been dark, gritty and joyless. There's no room for fun in western games anymore, AAA-games that is.
 
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Too much
 
The essence of Bayonetta is so distinctly Japanese in flavor that it's hard for me to even imagine a Western developer putting out something similar in spirit. Sure they make some action games, but nothing with the vibe of Bayonetta. To answer your question, if a Western developer made Bayonetta, it wouldn't BE Bayonetta, at all.
 
Like, a hypothetical AAA western dev strawman? Focus tested into something bland and marketable, soundtrack and aesthetic would be something more manly/generic because that sells better. DLC instead of unlocklables. No ranking system, or maybe just one that doesn't rub your nose in your failure every time you get hit - or god forbid use a continue. Higher difficulties would just be the same game with higher enemy hp and lower player hp, no testing or balancing or modified enemy behaviour/placement. Combat would abandon structure in favor of flashy button mashing, because few devs outside of Japan seem to understand what makes these games good. Except perhaps Vigil with Darksiders 2, at least before they had to shoehorn a loot system in.

But on the other hand, at least Loki would probably be gone. So maybe it'd be worth it.
 
That depends, is it one with respect for the franchise and the fanbase or not? Cuz the last time the latter happened, and that didn't work out too hot financially...
 
Instead of being designed around feeling fun to play from the start and enticing you to get better, it'd be designed around making someone feel awesome at the game from the start and giving the player a hand job for every little accomplishment. Why? Because the focus group said so!

The way hit stun, recovery, and i-frames are implemented would make no sense. It'd have a huge combo list with only 3 moves that are actually useful. Dodge offset? Ha! Witch time would last forever. In witch time, you do increased damage and automatically travel to enemies as you hit the attack button in QTEs. The harder difficulties would just make enemies damage sponges and make you die in 2 hits, without any thought given to remixing enemies. Why would it be so dumbed down? Because the focus group said so!

The story would be subtly jingoistic or some corny homage to batman. The cut scenes would be deadly serious or the humor would all be memes. The writing would be the safest, most focus grouped crap ever, designed for Joe Bestbuy who despises things that are different and doesn't want to think about anything ever. Everyone in the game would be constantly praising Bill Netters, the 30 something white male protag with a shaved head. He'd have a female sidekick who makes him sandwiches provides support throughout the mission. That is, until she gets captured and needs to be rescued because she's a woman. Why would the story be like this? Because the focus group said so!

The unlockables would be terrible because they'd all be divided up between retailers prior to release as pre-order bonuses. Rodin's shop would have about 10 things to buy, no weapons, no costumes, just accessories that trivialize the game further. There'd be a season pass for 30 dollars, but no description of what's in it. The dlc would take months to come out and be very disappointing. There'd be 7 different editions. They'd have different cheesy statues and different pre order DLCs (weapons and costumes) in each one. Why? Because marketing said so!


People on neogaf would make matching avatars about the game and gang up on anyone who says any slight criticism about it, all before they've played it. Then 2 weeks after release, after everyone has beaten it once and clapped during the hour long credits (because 500 people were on the team), everyone will stop talking about it because there's pretty much no depth to the gameplay or story and they'll have moved on to some other bullshit.

I really love this post. Your user rank is fitting.
 
DmC was so much better than original Dmc, but western Bayonetta? I don' think so.

Your post somewhat contradicts itself , given that the original DMC was also directed by Kamiya. So if you thought DmC was better , a western developed Bayonetta might be better too.
 
It would be something like Remember Me: a combat based game with not enough depth on combat and too much on story. Replay value = 0.
 
There'd be a lot of "FUCK YOU'S" and forced abortion scenes because obviously Bayonetta isn't edgy enough. Father Balder (mispronounced Father Boulder) would be a fat, middle-aged bald man with a feather-patterened tie and his major goal would be to control the world through the Catholic religion. Of course this means he has to threaten the Pope at the start of the game to establish his villainy.

I find it ironic to point out mispronounciations as a western thing when Jeanne is mispronounced in Bayonetta.
 
I don't know. Art direction possibly, more effective marketing firms, who knows? But it's not the game design, and it's not that everyone in the West is secretly Japan-phobic. Most people have no idea where a game is made.

Yep it's not the genre, or the region they where made in.

It's the fact that the game is designed in such a way that it pleases the majority of the western male 18-35 console gamer.

There's a list of bullet points on how to make a game appeal to the PS/XBX audience which even the Japanese publishers themselves have been conforming to for some time now.

It is indeed the game design. It's all about making it easy to convert button presses into cool shit happening on screen. The process of learning is almost completely gone, which is the most fundamental aspect of what makes a game good for me.
 
GoW4 will sell millions. It's not that they're Japanese, and it's not the genre.

God of War has pretty casual and simple gameplay to the point where it's not really a part of character action game discussions (there's nothing to really discuss in depth.) It features a shouting, angry guy killing various mythological gods, which are familiar subject matter to the target audience, and gore everywhere. Everything about it hits that 18-34 male demographic. Add in a bottomless budget to create a game that maxes out the hardware and plaster ads everywhere and voila, you've got God Of War numbers. It's an exception in every part of this discussion and we can clearly see the reasons why. People discuss the set pieces, the graphics, music, story, etc., not so much the gameplay, which is basically the same in every game.

If DMC, Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden had simplified gameplay, I'd just write them off as shallow anime games that ape God Of War and would never give them a second look. They'd sell even less. I think they represent how well games do on outstanding gameplay alone, without a whole lot of window dressing.
 
God of War has pretty casual and simple gameplay to the point where it's not really a part of character action game discussions (there's nothing to really discuss in depth.) It features a shouting, angry guy killing various mythological gods, which are familiar subject matter to the target audience, and gore everywhere. Everything about it hits that 18-34 male demographic.

pretty much.
 
15 - 30 FPS, color-based alternating enemies, no invincibility frames while rolling/dodging, all enemy encounters would just be punching bags that didn't fight back, bayonetta would be a boy simply named "bayonet" (bald, angsty, looking to exact revenge for a female he has lost in his life), the music would sound like late nineties alt/nu-metal....

You must have been thinking of DmC when coming up with this description, because it's pretty similar.

But yeah, it would be the equivalent of DmC.
 
The problem is not that there isn't talent and creativity to make something like Bayonetta or DMC, the problem is the business side in the West.

DMC / Bayo are designed entirely around the character, and more importantly, the combat. Basically, it's about what the character can do - or better yet, what the player can do WITH the character. Every decision the developers make during the vast majority of the project is to further the combat. Often times, the stories go in last second (like seriously, last month or two) - they are an afterthought.

In the West, it's about "what can this be compared against" or "how can we position this game to compete against X" or "it's like Skyrim with GUNS!" or "we need huge cinematic story and presentation!" It's not about "here is something you've never played before". You don't get much of that from the West unless it's indie studios doing something just because they don't have anyone to answer to.

In the West, you need a "do something cool" button (like in GOW - beat on a guy, button shows up, hit button, some badass destruction happens... also Darksiders!). In Batman, a prompt comes up that lets you cancel out of almost anything you are doing and "do something cool (counter)". This type of system allows you to be more loose with your inputs and decisions. It's not a bad system by any stretch, but it also doesn't reward practice, skill, execution like DMC/Bayo does. Is that a bad thing? Of course not. It's not even bad design! Not all games have to be the same, or "Japanese", to be good! More forgiving systems that "give" the cool factor to you without you earning it are way more market-friendly (Western friendly) than the alternative.

In DMC/Bayo, the reward is the journey: "I did this... holy shit, I did this!" (can be applied to Dark Souls as well). In many Western games, it's more about the destination: "I played up till this point, now give me something cool... I totally earned it... cause I have X hours played".

In Japanese combat games, the reward is the realization that you actually can do it. It's like trying to bake a cake for someone when you've never baked before. You finally take it out of the oven and go "wow, this is pretty good... I DID THIS!!!" In Western games, it's more like "I waited in traffic for 3 hours, I deserve a cake now".

Which one is more business friendly? You paid 60 bucks and you'll get a cake every 3 hours no matter what? Or... "you'll only get the cake when you earn it... with skill... with execution... with practice"?

There are always exceptions, though.

Everything about AAA development in the West is about maximizing the bottom line. Big budgets, incredible production value, amazing voice-talent, tie-ins, on-disc DLC, pre-order bonuses, etc. In Japan, it's more about "We are going to make a really good game... we will try our best... we owe it to our fans, and to ourselves to do better than we did the last time." In the West, it's about "we can totally make more money this time by doing XYZ".

Now, don't get me wrong. The development talent in the West is incredible... but 99/100 times they have a suit to answer to, who has an even more important suit to answer to, who has a board of directors to answer to, who have stockholders to answer to. This exists in any big-business... but the bottom-line doesn't always seem to be the #1 factor in non-Western development.

This leads back to my very first sentence - it's not about the lack of talent or creativity, it's about the business side.

Think about it this way: a game like Shadow of the Colossus would never pass the greenlight in the West at any major studio. The discussion would go like this: "You want to make a game.. with 24 bosses (originally), and a horse... and... uh you ride around and just fight the bosses... and there's no real dialogue... and the story is somewhat vague... and your main mechanic is 'hold on tight' am I getting this right?"

"LOL... no"

However, if SotC sold 2-3 million copies, a similar meeting in the West may go the other way. Now there is proof that it's not an obviously bad decision. "So it's like SotC... but with a more approachable story, more western-friendly characters, some insane cut-scenes? Let's do it!".

I would wager that there are plenty of developers outside of Japan that could make a combat game as intricate and skill-based and rewarding as DMC or Bayo. The real question is: Who is going to let them?

The answer is: No one.

Gotta do it yourself (no better time than the present).
 
Yep it's not the genre, or the region they where made in.

It's the fact that the game is designed in such a way that it pleases the majority of the western male 18-35 console gamer.

There's a list of bullet points on how to make a game appeal to the PS/XBX audience which even the Japanese publishers themselves have been conforming to for some time now.

It is indeed the game design. It's all about making it easy to convert button presses into cool shit happening on screen. The process of learning is almost completely gone, which is the most fundamental aspect of what makes a game good for me.
I totally disagree. GoW is a lot less 'bash to make cool shit happen' than Bayonetta is. Bayonetta is a far deeper game, but you can absolutely get by hammering the same old combo every single time, just like GoW. On Normal, Bayo 2 is a complete cakewalk. I literally only died three times, and two of those I would argue don't really count. GoW on Normal is much more challenging.
 
Shallow gameplay but all the excitement and wow factor would hide it on the initial playthrough. No one cares the game lacks replayability because the tacked on multiplayer is where everyone who didn't trade it in is right now.

DLC is pay to win items related to the multiplayer mode.
 
Jankiness
30fps
Darker and grittier game.
Grungy looking male protagonist.
Less creativity imo.
More serious, less comedy.
Much more profanity.
More blood and gore.
Gameplay would not be as good and in depth.
Tacked on multiplayer.
Women, if there are women in the game would not look as attractive.
 
Jankiness
30fps
Darker and grittier game.
Grungy looking male protagonist.
Less creativity imo.
More serious, less comedy.
Much more profanity.
More blood and gore.
Gameplay would not be as good and in depth.
Tacked on multiplayer.
Women, if there are women in the game would not look as attractive.

Pretty much the same thing I said. Forgot to add more profanity, though.
 
Jankiness
30fps
Darker and grittier game.
Grungy looking male protagonist.
Less creativity imo.
More serious, less comedy.
Much more profanity.
More blood and gore.
Gameplay would not be as good and in depth.
Tacked on multiplayer.
Women, if there are women in the game would not look as attractive.
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