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[DunDunDunpachi]

Both knowledge and reflexes are required for almost all videogames, so I'm not trying to imply only one or the other is used.

However, some genres -- like 4x strategy games and turn-based RPGs -- require almost no reflexes or mechanical skill to complete. Instead, the player overcomes through clever manipulation of the game's underlying rules to dominate opponents (human or AI). Learning the complex arrangement of systems and abusing them is very rewarding.

Other genres reward breakneck speed and reflexes, like fighting games or competitive shooters. Players with intimate knowledge of frame data, matchup data, tier lists, or map information will almost always be outclassed by players who've sharpened their muscle-memory skills and who possess quick reflexes. Honing your skill and executing them perfectly when the pressure is on is also very rewarding.

So what's your bag, knowledge or reflexes?

Bonus question: which games/genres do you love dunking on with your superior intellect / superhuman reflexes?

 

[Life]

I would change this poll to: reflexes vs grinding. I can hardly think of any games that genuinely allow you to use "expert knowledge." Most games that pretend to be strategic are fucking grind fests. And they're all getting away with it, year in, year out.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

The thing about some stuff like fighters is that you actually need both in order to compete at a top level: your reflexes mean nothing if you don't know what moves are safe or give frame advantage, or if you don't know that you need to variate your combo on the 3rd hit on Character C because the other version of that combo only works on Character B.

Your muscle dexterity and reflexes won't mean much if the other player has all of that AND intimate knowledge on the roster, their strengths and weaknesses, and the data to exploit all of that.

 

[Verdanth]

Gotta go with reflexes. Sekiro says hi.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I would change this poll to: reflexes vs grinding. I can hardly think of any games that genuinely allow you to use "expert knowledge." Most games that pretend to be strategic are fucking grind fests. And they're all getting away with it, year in, year out.

Hmm, I'm not sure I would make the same distinction as you. Why do you consider slowly acquiring knowledge of a game's systems to be "grinding" as compared to slowly building up muscle-memory for performing complex movements (also called "grinding")?

 

[Airola]

I would enjoy La-Mulana 1 & 2 even if all battles were removed from them.

I wouldn't enjoy La-Mulana 1 & 2 if fighting was all it had.

So knowledge is my answer.

 

[Birdo]

Muscle reflexes.

Anyone can memorise something. But physical requires skill and dexterity.

 

[Yoshi]

Reflexes > Wit >> Memory >> Patience

Why do I differentiate wit and memory? Because a game may have puzzles or tactical components that can be solved with just the information readily available. Memory is not a prerequisite here.

 

[Life]

Hmm, I'm not sure I would make the same distinction as you. Why do you consider slowly acquiring knowledge of a game's systems to be "grinding" as compared to slowly building up muscle-memory for performing complex movements (also called "grinding")?

I'm saying there is no acquiring knowledge at all. IT's pretentious. Most games will reward you with stat boosts and the rest of the strategic aspects are merely just there to look pretty.

As for your second point - true, reflexes are somethign gained through grinding - but not in a single game. Reflexes are legacy skills that you build your whole life, from your first platformer (Super Mario NES for me) to anything you play today. So it's not that bad compared to actual grinding.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I'm saying there is no acquiring knowledge at all. IT's pretentious. Most games will reward you with stat boosts and the rest of the strategic aspects are merely just there to look pretty.

As for your second point - true, reflexes are somethign gained through grinding - but not in a single game. Reflexes are legacy skills that you build your whole life, from your first platformer (Super Mario NES for me) to anything you play today. So it's not that bad compared to actual grinding.

Good point, reflexes usually stick with you from game to game if you're sticking to the same genre.

 

[johntown]

Reflexes without a doubt. I enjoy games that require you to use your brain too but being good at games like Sekiro, Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden are much more satisfying IMO.

EDIT - fast paced shooters like Doom 2016 too.

 

[SnapShot]

Reflexes, because it's less boring.

 

[GermanZepp]

I like getting challenged with some sharp reflexes but i like games that rewards and allows different approaches and strategies .

 

[Fake]

Reflex. God of War and Bloodborne are spot on.

 

[Yumi]

Cop out answer, I like a combination of both. Example, take a boss from soulsborne and it's exciting if you best them with reflexes. But I get more fun after knowing and enemy and then fighting them, knowing when and how to dodge attacks. its more like a dance.

 

[DrJohnGalt]

For me it's knowledge. I play more RTS and 4x type games (primarily Total War) so being able to beat a challenge with a better grand strategy and/or sounder battlefield tactics is more rewarding.

A lot of more casual RTS games are mostly about gathering resources, getting as many units as you can, and just overwhelming the enemy with numbers. But more of the hardcore titles require a grand strategy mentality to build and maintain an empire (it's not just about gathering wood and iron on a single battle map) and very tactical thinking (which infantry beats which? how should cav be used? how much ranged and artillery support will be needed? what's the best terrain and which weather conditions are more favorable for this specific army?). And yes, reflexes do play a part in managing a 20+ army of different units, but not nearly as much as shooters or fighters.

It also gives me a reason to study historical battles and commanders to see what worked for them and what didn't, as well as real-life weapons from ancient armies, thru the world wars, up to and including our modern forces around the world.

The deeper RTS games are not just a "paper, rock, scissors" thing like a lot of the casual titles.

Aside from Total War I like several Paradox games and things like Endless Legend and Endless Space.

A lot of people say these kinds of games are boring, and I can see that. They aren't for everyone, but I really like role playing as the emperor or commander and making up a whole backstory for my family/faction/empire and just running with it.

I'm over 40 and I've seen my reflexes slowing down for the past decade; at this point competitive shooters and twitchy type games just aren't fun anymore. I do still enjoy co-op, but I can't keep up with the young kids.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Expert knowledge for me. I'm not a good twitchy gamer.

 

[CagedChicken]

Well, since I have no reflexes or skill, I'll have to go with knowledge.

 

[Lupin3]

Getting a frag no matter how, would be my primary answer. They all feel great!

 

[Myths]

I like the knowledge since I can probably use other things to my advantage than reflexes. Still when I watch LP’s, it’s great when the LPer comments or reviews all the tricks up their sleeve for a game.

 

[Belmonte]

Most DMC/Souls/Nioh players already have expert reflexes built in them. The challenge is making tactical decisions, like, when to dodge, when to block, when to attack and with which weapons, etc...learning all the enemy patterns. So IMO, there are more tactic than people recognize.

To me, conquering a Souls boss with only reflexes is when you kill it without understanding its moves and attacks. Very lame. It is rare since most bosses are challenging enough, but when it happens I feel like I didn't play the game properly. I like when I think "What if I block this attack instead of dodging?" or "what if I dodge to the right instead of dodge back?" when I die.

Even Contra/Classicvania games have more tactic than people give credit. After you are comfortable with the controls and have enough dexterity, the game focus is to optimize your moves to kill enemies the faster and safer you can. Fast and safe usually are against one another, so the player needs to make some interesting choices.

 

[Fbh]

Definitely skill. Though, really, what you want is a mix of both.
Like the Souls games for example. You need the skill and reflexes to avoid attacks and hit back at the right time, but much of the battle is also learning the moveset of your enemy, figuring out how to evade or block tricky attacks as well as the best windows of opportunity to strike back

 

[Shifty]

Reflexes. Though I'm also all for the argument that such games have a tactical layer once your mind and muscle memory are dialed in.

Getting a frag no matter how, would be my primary answer. They all feel great!

Damn straight, Sarge.

 

[Trojita]

Grinding and then fucking everything up

 

[Kadayi]

I like to ponder these days so I'm happy with knowledge, I'm normally too beat after a day in the office to be doing much twitch/reflex shit any more.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Knowledge and muscle reflexes are both critical to having a satisfying experience.

 

[Tesseract]

the smartest frags aren't always the most reflexive, there's usually a stance dance thing going on behind the scenes

ultimately tho i live to kill, full throttle psycho mania pentagon ultra violence programs until the day i die

 

[petran79]

Memory, knowledge and strategy require much more time are prone to bugs and glitches, forcing you to restart and reload. One reason I dropped xcom2. From first stage already game glitched twice. Don't have the luxury for this.
While games relying on reflexes are shorter and more gratifying so you waste less time if something goes wrong

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Overwhelmingly reflexes. I like getting gud at arcade games for this very reason.

 

[Yumi]

For me it's knowledge. I play more RTS and 4x type games (primarily Total War) so being able to beat a challenge with a better grand strategy and/or sounder battlefield tactics is more rewarding.

A lot of more casual RTS games are mostly about gathering resources, getting as many units as you can, and just overwhelming the enemy with numbers. But more of the hardcore titles require a grand strategy mentality to build and maintain an empire (it's not just about gathering wood and iron on a single battle map) and very tactical thinking (which infantry beats which? how should cav be used? how much ranged and artillery support will be needed? what's the best terrain and which weather conditions are more favorable for this specific army?). And yes, reflexes do play a part in managing a 20+ army of different units, but not nearly as much as shooters or fighters.

It also gives me a reason to study historical battles and commanders to see what worked for them and what didn't, as well as real-life weapons from ancient armies, thru the world wars, up to and including our modern forces around the world.

The deeper RTS games are not just a "paper, rock, scissors" thing like a lot of the casual titles.

Aside from Total War I like several Paradox games and things like Endless Legend and Endless Space.

A lot of people say these kinds of games are boring, and I can see that. They aren't for everyone, but I really like role playing as the emperor or commander and making up a whole backstory for my family/faction/empire and just running with it.

I'm over 40 and I've seen my reflexes slowing down for the past decade; at this point competitive shooters and twitchy type games just aren't fun anymore. I do still enjoy co-op, but I can't keep up with the young kids.

This is interesting to me because I was wondering RTS's are more reflexive based. Starcraft 2 for instance you have to be insanely fast to compete competitively. I guess it just depends on if you are playing another player or not, and maybe the type of RTS, like you explained.

 

[Ikutachi]

Knowledge. I enjoyed glitch hunting.

 

[Livia]

Why didn't you list platforming games in the reflex category? I got to go with a combo of both. I enjoy conquering strategic games with skills and mastering hard platform games like Meatboy and Celeste. Both are equally as rewarding imo

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Why didn't you list platforming games in the reflex category? I got to go with a combo of both. I enjoy conquering strategic games with skills and mastering hard platform games like Meatboy and Celeste. Both are equally as rewarding imo

I apologize, I wasn't trying to exclude any "knowledge" or "reflex" genres, just wanted to give a few examples of each. I do love me some platformers

 

[Woo-Fu]

Will reflexes help you without the knowledge of when to apply them?

 

[Journey]

Some games require a combination of both. I would say that a game like Cuphead requires both reflexes and knowledge of the patterns.