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NinjaFridge
Unconfirmed Member
'Nobody is buying our products, we're going to have to let people go because we can't afford to keep them on'
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What it Looks Like when 1400 People Lose their Jobs
- Thread starter legacyzero
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'Nobody is buying our products, we're going to have to let people go because we can't afford to keep them on'
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Really, really sad to see this. 
Corporations are not people. They are neither evil or good. They exist to make profits and jobs is a biproduct of that. - If companies had paid their fair share like they were supposed to, there would have been better welfare, protection and worker rights for being fired and compensated on a short notice.
I feel that if companies don't outsource, they'll go to automation. Dealing with people is a headache and it losses money. they just want money, and that's okay. But it's not okay when a company championing mobility, trade and capitalism treat it as a religious entity who must be appeased and have rights like a person.
It's also sad to see those people yelling about mexicans. In Europe, people do that about polish workers.
I believe Bernie Sanders approach is the best one, but the bad side of giving people a living minimum wage is that companies are going to punish people as a knee-jerk reaction. If they are going to make companies earn less money by giving more to lazy people whose work output is several thousand times less worth than the output of a CEO of a large corporation, then they might as well punish them and go somewhere else there is more profit. And people will be intimidated by these scare tactic, and forget that corporations will fuck over individuals for financial gain whenever, wherever. Has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism.
Corporations are not people. They are neither evil or good. They exist to make profits and jobs is a biproduct of that. - If companies had paid their fair share like they were supposed to, there would have been better welfare, protection and worker rights for being fired and compensated on a short notice.
I feel that if companies don't outsource, they'll go to automation. Dealing with people is a headache and it losses money. they just want money, and that's okay. But it's not okay when a company championing mobility, trade and capitalism treat it as a religious entity who must be appeased and have rights like a person.
It's also sad to see those people yelling about mexicans. In Europe, people do that about polish workers.
I believe Bernie Sanders approach is the best one, but the bad side of giving people a living minimum wage is that companies are going to punish people as a knee-jerk reaction. If they are going to make companies earn less money by giving more to lazy people whose work output is several thousand times less worth than the output of a CEO of a large corporation, then they might as well punish them and go somewhere else there is more profit. And people will be intimidated by these scare tactic, and forget that corporations will fuck over individuals for financial gain whenever, wherever. Has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism.
Point taken, but it came across as unsympathetic and belittling, as if the Carrier employees are unethical slobs who take no pride in their work and would just as soon sabotage random peoples' furnaces.
Oh really? What are the details of that? He'd have to put limits on businesses and we all know how he runs a business....
Even if it came across as unsympathetic and belittling, he still has a right to worry about what's going to happen to something he just bought and hasn't been built yet. I'd feel the same way.
They are owned by Midea? Or are a joint venture?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midea_(company)
Revenue: $24.8 billion USD (2014)
What is United Technologies then?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Technologies
Revenue: $56.098 billion USD (2015)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midea_(company)
Revenue: $24.8 billion USD (2014)
What is United Technologies then?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Technologies
Revenue: $56.098 billion USD (2015)
I know what you're doing but the phrase should be in this instance: "Thanks, Clinton." Because Bill signed NAFTA into law and allowed this kind of shit to happen.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
You can read up on some of his proposed solutions here: http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Donald_Trump_Free_Trade.htm
Well, they would be out the door sooner if they decide to fuck things up on purpose.
Yeah, after reading the comments in this thread it sounds like it is something that needed to be done for the survival of the company.
Giving employees up to 3 years to find other jobs is very respectable. Most layoffs that I have hears about through friends/family happen the same day that they are told. I guess the company didn't want an employee to steal things, cause damage, or whatever. There can be legit security issues having an employee stay on board knowing that they are going to be gone shortly, especially on the IT side.
On a side note, I wonder what kind of bonuses and stuff were handed out during Christmas to the execs.
Looks like another plant is shutting down as well in Indiana. Huntington with a population of ~17,000 will lose about 700 jobs. So about 2100 jobs total it looks like.
outunderthestars
Banned
Man, I bet the defect rate on their ac units are going to go through the roof over the next three years.
That said, I wonder how much the average wage is at that facility.
edit: found it
"Carrier’s workers are separated into a two-tier wage system. A quarter of the workers make about $14 an hour, or about $30,000 a year. The rest make about $26 an hour, or about $55,000, but make well above $70,000 a year with overtime, Jones said"
Holy shit. No wonder they are closing and moving. $70,000 a year to work on an assembly line?
That said, I wonder how much the average wage is at that facility.
edit: found it
"Carrier’s workers are separated into a two-tier wage system. A quarter of the workers make about $14 an hour, or about $30,000 a year. The rest make about $26 an hour, or about $55,000, but make well above $70,000 a year with overtime, Jones said"
Holy shit. No wonder they are closing and moving. $70,000 a year to work on an assembly line?
Dude was reading from the official PR copy, which makes it seem like management cares even less about the individuals in their company. Feel sorry for those people losing their jobs. The sad thing is that manufacturing is becoming a smaller portion of the workforce and those types of jobs will most likely never recover and eventually become obsolete.
Yup. In most cases you are lucky if you get two weeks. The time is now to start looking for work while you still have a steady paycheck.
Yup. In most cases you are lucky if you get two weeks. The time is now to start looking for work while you still have a steady paycheck.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
When your Union gets enough clout to get manufacturing line workers $70k per year you shut down operations. That union brought this one on themselves if that wage info is true.
I work in manufacturing field as well and if you don't push automation fast enough, this is usually what happens. Hell it can happen even if you have well automated production. Seen massive layoffs happen 2 times now in my own life.
Also this stuff that management doesn't care about firing workers is total BS. It's the worst, I have too much experience about it already. Managers are people too. It hurts to fire people we worked with.
Also this stuff that management doesn't care about firing workers is total BS. It's the worst, I have too much experience about it already. Managers are people too. It hurts to fire people we worked with.
The Shadow
Member
Aww....the sweet, sweet results of NAFTA.
But really, thanks Obama!
Edit: Beaten!
No one blames past presidents for current issues. It's always the current president that hits some master switch and fucks things up.
But really, thanks Obama!
Edit: Beaten!
No one blames past presidents for current issues. It's always the current president that hits some master switch and fucks things up.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Why would they announce it like this? What a disaster.
Giant Panda
Member
Please make sure you never have any real political power. If you want a Venezuelan economic system you should try moving there. If you make running a business profitably a legal nightmare less businesses will be created, and thus less jobs and consumer products.
Septimus Prime
Member
That's what happened in Detroit, isn't it? Even if we take Trump's plan wholesale, with the 15% tax on exporting work and 20% tax on imports, that's not going to even be close to evening out the difference in wages.
Ghostofst4rm4n
Neo Member
Supper sorry to all of those hurt by this decision. At least the time frame is not so crazy that they would not be able to transition. But that is not what you hear in that situation. All you can really think is that your being made redundant.
outunderthestars
Banned
Again, 75% of these workers made on average $70,000+ a year. If you want to blame anyone, blame the union that created an unsustainable situation.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
His plan won't stop every instance of outsourcing but it will move the "lets outsource to save money" line out further. It would undoubtedly save some jobs.
Chiggs
Gold Member
Given the climate of Poli-GAF, I wouldn't bother with comments like that on this forum.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
They took er jebs
Sucks but that shit happens all the time even in Germany factorys get discontinued. And from one day to the other people only have part time work.
Sucks but that shit happens all the time even in Germany factorys get discontinued. And from one day to the other people only have part time work.
blast processed
Member
Indeed. What a horrible day for them. Much calmer than I would've been.
akidnamededdy
Banned
As someone who once showed up for a shift waiting tables to find the restaurant doors padlocked and all the paper records in a dumpster out back, I feel sorry for these guys buuuuuut not too sorry.
gutter_trash
Banned
"they're killing us at the border and they're killing us on trade"
-Donald J. Trump
-Donald J. Trump
Yeah, clearly it's the fault of those greedy unions comprised of greedy workers. Look at the trend of how employee compensation has skyrocketed versus exec-- oh
Giant Panda
Member
And kill others too. Most economic research shows that by far the net result would be a loss of jobs and welfare, so you have to ask yourself if you want to help one group while hurting the other group.
Is $70,000 that unreasonable?
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
In this instance it was the unions' fault if they were paying $70k to a line worker.
If you want to change CEO pay then you change CEO pay. You don't give line workers $70k. No low skilled labor should make $70k in 2016.
Not saying all unions are bad, but this one got greedy and forced the corporation to outsource them or leave the business.
It sure is for line workers. I would argue the only person in that plant making hat wage should be the GM and maybe some of his managerial staff if they had enough responsibility.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
1. I can't get over how poor of a decision it is to do this in person in front of hundreds of people. Great way to start a riot.
2. I also can't get over him saying 'Please be quiet' over and over again. What on earth did he expect? Why do they always want us to be quiet?
3. Yes, as trite as it sounds this is absolutely a symptom / cause of the Bernie / Trump outsider explosion of support.
2. I also can't get over him saying 'Please be quiet' over and over again. What on earth did he expect? Why do they always want us to be quiet?
3. Yes, as trite as it sounds this is absolutely a symptom / cause of the Bernie / Trump outsider explosion of support.
Why would they be angry? They have 1 year to find a job, they weren't told your jobs are gone, gtfo gg no re
Lil'DigiOp
Member
I don't see his job moving to Mexico
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Maybe it's a bad day because they know damn well they won't get $70k for that work anywhere else. hopefully their union leadership wakes up and doesn't screw the next group they get involved with.
Iorv3th
Member
That's a really good wage for that kind of job. For a lot of jobs actually.
With a bachelors degree in biology $70,000 a year would be exceptionally good pay right out of college. I'm expecting something closer to $55,000/year when I graduate this year but that's optimistic.
outunderthestars
Banned
To work on an assembly line? I would argue that the fact that they are having to close and move the production elsewhere is proof that it is unreasonable.
Bottom line is that companies have to be able to deliver a product that is price competitive. Paying your staff $70,000+ a year when your competitors are paying their staffs a fraction of that is not something that many businesses can afford to do.
It's easy to blame Wall St and CEO's but in the end a great deal of the responsibility is on us as consumers. How much of what you are wearing was made in the US? How much of the items in your home?
At some point wages are just too much for the market to bear.
My fiancee has a masters degree and works for the VA and makes much less than that. I managed an entire park system for a town and made half that.
I think the most hilarious part is that they pretty much hide everyone on the Marked Ones team while they're collecting their meager possessions under strict guard.
I guess they're worried the fired person is going to start slugging random people?
Businesses only care about the bottom line, not their employees. Most don't care about the well being of their customers unless a product / service would result in a lawsuit.
Jobs will move away faster and faster and more jobs will be replaced by machine's because it will be cheaper, unless people are willing to take a hell a lot less pay.
Jobs will move away faster and faster and more jobs will be replaced by machine's because it will be cheaper, unless people are willing to take a hell a lot less pay.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
False. If you have ever ran a business you would realize employees are one of the most important investments. Low skilled workers are much less of an investment but still worth paying enough to stave off high turnover rates as that costs more than the increase in pay would.
Also false is the assumption that manager isn't human and doesn't care about those he/she lays off.
Your point about automation is accurate though. Can't wait for my fast food to be automated so I get more accurate order fulfillment and less chance of food poisoning.
this is why i have almost 0 loyalty to any company i work for. I've been fired twice, without cause. The minute the day the hour that someone in management either doesn't like you, doesnt think you do a good job(whether true or not), or thinks they can save money by getting rid of you, you're gone.
In this cause they think 1400 people are a cost burden, and thus they are gone.
In this cause they think 1400 people are a cost burden, and thus they are gone.
They could easily get that amount, depending on how transferable their skills are to other industries.
CitizenCope
Member
I need to make it 17 or so years in my blue collar job.
Magic 8 ball says outlook not so good.
Magic 8 ball says outlook not so good.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Line workers easily get $70k in the USA? Lol
You literally just proved his point.
Employees are an asset, not people. You only treat them as such so far as it helps you reach the bottom line.
if this is true, then they had it coming, it sucks but $70K for assembly? no no no no.
Yeah, because a factory just consists of line workers - right?
Iorv3th
Member
Maybe some businesses. But they were willing to pay these people a huge salary until it became unsustainable. I know businesses that stay open even though they lose money or break even because of the good they do by keeping people employed.
Corporations are more motivated by profit because they are publicly traded companies. Saying Businesses though is pretty broad and undermines a lot of companies out there.
At least you have a positive attitude.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
When 2/3 makes $70k+ you know line workers are in that mix.
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