outunderthestars
Banned
Here is the article I quoted that from:
http://www.indystar.com/story/money...ndy-unit-mexico-eliminate-1400-jobs/80181804/
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What it Looks Like when 1400 People Lose their Jobs
- Thread starter legacyzero
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Here is the article I quoted that from:
http://www.indystar.com/story/money...ndy-unit-mexico-eliminate-1400-jobs/80181804/
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I was going to say. Sign me up.
Yeah, I'm kinda grossed out by all these holy shit 70k is too much and low skill comments. Whats a reasonable wage for factory work? Minimum wage? No college? Well, no livable salary for you!
Although 70k is def on the highend of the spectrum
Where are you getting that number from? Sounds to me it's a rumour an outlet is spinning so people don't feel so bad the thousands of people are losing their jobs, regardless though - my post wasn't directed at unskilled labour and you know it.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
$70,000 is firm middle class, almost upper middle class range.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Low skilled labor should be $25k to $45k max IMO. If you can replace the employee with a kid fresh out of high schools after 3 months of training that worker definitely does not deserve $70k.
whatsinaname
Member
Lol. Like crabs in a fucking bucket. Instead of whinging about others not "deserving" $26 per hour, shouldn't we whinge about more skilled jobs not paying more? Carrier's parent company had a profit of $7b last year. You think these people had no part of creating that profit?
Yeah, They don't deserve that much. But having someone else make them are going to raise their defect rates. No inconsistency there.
Yeah, They don't deserve that much. But having someone else make them are going to raise their defect rates. No inconsistency there.
It always strikes me as odd to see 'progressive' people, posters, boards, etc. acting so enraged at offshoring and other facets of globalization. Fury over free trade and Chinese manufacturing. I just have to wonder, do people think that Mexicans or Chinese or Indonesian workers don't deserve jobs? Poorer countries need to make the transition from agriculture, to manufacturing and eventually to services just like the more developed countries of today. Jobs aren't really being 'lost' in a lot of these cases, they're simply being transferred. And certainly, it is pretty terrible for all those who see their jobs going elsewhere, I'd imagine it's just as bad if not worse for workers in third world countries.
I suppose some might advance the argument that companies are moving production abroad and pocketing the difference, screwing over their customers, their current employees and offshore employees. But if there is one strength of the free market it's that this should be very difficult. If Carrier AC were seriously just trying to drive up their profits, then any competitor could simply move their production overseas, pass the savings on to customers and subsequently capture all of Carrier's business due to lower prices. This is a simplification but its still pretty reliable.
I suppose some might advance the argument that companies are moving production abroad and pocketing the difference, screwing over their customers, their current employees and offshore employees. But if there is one strength of the free market it's that this should be very difficult. If Carrier AC were seriously just trying to drive up their profits, then any competitor could simply move their production overseas, pass the savings on to customers and subsequently capture all of Carrier's business due to lower prices. This is a simplification but its still pretty reliable.
Businesses that care about their employees lie in the minority.
Most companies want to move away from the emotional / human aspect of workers. Robots don't talk back, they don't need benefits, they don't need anything humans need. This is really how we treat poor countries when we bring jobs over there.
akidnamededdy
Banned
$70k is well beyond livable salary. I have a master's degree and I'm barely making $50k.
You can't pay employees with caring. Economics is a harsh mistress.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Every single time...
what strikes me is that the people MOST likely to yell and scream about "they're takin' our jerbs!" are conservative/republicans, when talking about illegal immigrants. Who then turn around and have no problem with a corporation maximizing their profits by offshoring, outsourcing, moving to another country etc. And they're the ones that most talk about "the free market will fix this or that." well the free market is the one saying we want to get rid of expensive americans and hire illegals or move our facilities to cheaper labor areas.
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
While it's super shitty that all these people are losing their jobs, I can't be mad at a company that gave them 52 weeks notice. I've been laid off before and the best I got was two weeks.
As heartless as it sounds, this company did not owe these people this much notice, but is giving them a ton of time to find work elsewhere.
As heartless as it sounds, this company did not owe these people this much notice, but is giving them a ton of time to find work elsewhere.
You want to make it illegal for a company to make a profit or fire people? Yeah, good luck with that. Sucks to be those people but that's just the market operating and it's nice that the company are giving them over a year worth of notice.
So you are saying about 30 to 35 base with overtime max to 45?
OrlanisWorks
Banned
Burn it down to da ground.
Man, heartbraking 
At the very least the company had enough respect to tell them to their faces and gave them ample warning time before the layoffs occur.
I don't understand all the Trump supporters in the comments though (well, in life in general) who are screaming that Trump would totally "fix this". How brainwashed can people be? Trump is the poster-boy of heartless corporate America, the man would run over your grandparents to make a dollar.
At the very least the company had enough respect to tell them to their faces and gave them ample warning time before the layoffs occur. I don't understand all the Trump supporters in the comments though (well, in life in general) who are screaming that Trump would totally "fix this". How brainwashed can people be? Trump is the poster-boy of heartless corporate America, the man would run over your grandparents to make a dollar.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Overtime was not included in those numbers. I don't feel massive amounts of overtime should be a goal of manufacturing operations. If you have to pay a person $20k+ in overtime over the course of a year there is a staffing issue that needs to be solved.
When I ran operations I tried to keep overtime to around 10%. If they were working 10% overtime then so was I (even though salary didn't get paid for the extra time). Work life balance is pretty important to people.
It's like somebody, somewhere, invented governments to prevent workers abuses.
uncelestial
Member
Yeah, quick question. Are you familiar with how other countries do layoffs, like at all?
http://www.cio.com/article/2430073/it-organization/how-to-conduct-a-layoff-outside-the-u-s-.html
Getting fired isn't abuse unless it was done based on discrimination.
So what? This is America. No company should be forced to lose money and potentially face bankruptcy to save any employees job.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Welp, the people at the top of that company will be getting huge raises as they continue to diminish the middle america.
Just to respond to some points brought up..the Indianapolis Star is reporting that an ancillary company UTEC that provides electronic controls for Carrier's HVAC units is also eliminating 700 jobs in the city and moving to Mexico.
That's 2100 manufacturing jobs eliminated in one day.
That state and city are also checking their incentive agreements to see if they can recoup any tax breaks or incentives offered to these companies.
That's 2100 manufacturing jobs eliminated in one day.
That state and city are also checking their incentive agreements to see if they can recoup any tax breaks or incentives offered to these companies.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Eliminated in 1.5+ years.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Likely could have been more profitable without this division in its current form.
i'm pointing out that they were in no danger of bankruptcy or insolvency
They need more! Will someone think of the stock holders?
Barajas_201
Member
Worst of all, they're moving it to one of the most violent cities in Mexico, Monterrey, were just 2 days ago 52 people died in a prison riot and the police didn't even intervene.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
What is the alternative, hugs and wishes? It's a business, if they are not profitable then they go out of business and employee no one.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Carrier may have been. It's parent company wasn't as it is diversified and other divisions can cover a loss at Carrier.
Yes, why is it unreasonable for a director of a private company to think of his shareholders? You know, his job.
Trump is vehemently against NAFTA and the exportation of jobs.
Giant Panda
Member
Being so hard to lay off workers is why other countries often have a higher unemployment rate than the US. Employers resist hiring unless absolutely necessary because they know that if things don't work out, they won't be able to fire the worker easily.
For example, I believe in Japan there are permanent workers that corporations are unable to fire, even those these workers are useless for the company. Still, the workers come in everyday and do nothing of value, which is a waste of resources for everyone involved. Many European countries have similar, but less drastic, systems.
Ok well their base was 55k if i recall correctly.
Anyway, I'm in a position that can earn similar money (a little below this particular place) and it could be learned in about 3 to 6 months as long as you have basic skills with working with machinery. I work at a small location of a huge company and our location profits over 8 million a year and there is a big chance of losing our jobs within the next couple years. But fuck me right? I make too much money.
I'm not taking these comments personally, just trying to explain my point of view.
How much profit is "enough"? When does it end?
Ask the shareholders or the board of directors. It's not anyone's business to tell them how much money they ought to be able to make. You don't have a right to your job at a private business.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Not fuck you by any means. But you realize you make a lot for what you do and your job is at risk because of that.
I would be more upset at union leadership for demanding a dangerous salary so far away from what the labor market would pay.
If you are non-Union and the company pays you that wage and threatens to outsource because it is cheaper then that company is bizarre and leadership must not be so bright.
It sucks because those people get accustomed to those high wages which makes it hurt a lot worse when they transition to another job paying half as much. Causes a lot of bankruptcies.
the point is that we need to be attacking this from the top down. tax capital gains and disincentivize the hyper focus american corporations have on ever-increasing quarterly increases in stock value. redistribute wealth from the ultra-rich oligarchs running things so we can provide for people when they lose jobs like this.
they built this company on the backs of the american middle class, on both the supply and demand side. the people who profited from that should be paying that back.
See this is what is wrong with this current form of capitalism. Mom and Pop or privately owned company can be content on steady profits where public companies are all about constant growth which is not always possible without screwing other people in their circle of stakeholders.
whatsinaname
Member
When the companies freely take tax credits and incentives from local governments can they truly be called a private business? Sure, you can say they are taking it because it is available.The way of the world. But is it wrong to feel entitled to that job when your taxes have gone to keeping them around and boosting up profits?
http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/United-Technologies-400-million-tax-deal-wins-5428022.php
I won't disagree with calls for higher tax rates on the ultra-rich including capital gains or a tax on Wall St. speculation. But, while I may be a liberal democrat I still support capitalism and would never advocate placing restrictions on a private company with regards to the hiring or firing of their employees. A business should be allowed to run like a business.
And, it appears they will be paying the State back for those tax incentives and grants.
Captain Tuttle
Member
So Carrier gets some good publicity? A years notice is very generous
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
You would make it so companies legally couldn't move?
Sorry, this is the reality of a global markets/trading, you can't undo pandoras box. Best you can do is what Obama did with TPP and get ahead of the other guy (China) and set your own rules with the next batch of rising economies and gain key political relations.
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