Listening to those music brought back really fond memories. I even immediately checked the wii u e shop if it's available.. It is not.
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What made DKC2 so much better than its predecessor?
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Listening to those music brought back really fond memories. I even immediately checked the wii u e shop if it's available.. It is not.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Yeah, always thought the original was best. And for some reason at the time I felt like the graphics got worse as the series went on.
This thread just reinforces my wanting for the DKC titles to be back up on the VC. I was lucky to snag the original before it got taken down, but I'd really like to give DKC2 a true shot other than my 14 year old brief bumblings with it back when it first released.
Also, I gather that heads will roll if some sort of Wise remix/remake of Stickerbrush Symphony is absent in Tropical Crank.
Also, I gather that heads will roll if some sort of Wise remix/remake of Stickerbrush Symphony is absent in Tropical Crank.
Don't know if I would say "better", but DKC2 had a pirate theme. And that music... hot dang, that music.
Talladega Knight
Member
DKC 3 is my favorite of the trilogy. I really enjoy the atmosphere of the game. I'm not a fan of Kiddy, but I thought everything else about the game was really well done, from the soundtrack and graphics, to the level design and world map.
sixteen-bit
Member
Wonder why they were de-listed. Maybe a compilation disc for the 20th anniversary of DKC next year ala Mario All-Stars / Kirby Dream Collection?
turnbuckle
Member
You basically covered the reasons for me in your post. I didn't care for playing as Donkey Kong, Dixie was a nice alternative to that slow lumbering gorilla.
What's completely unrivaled to this day is the variety of different gameplay approaches between DKC2's stages: Every single stage switches around some significant parameters, the progression changing between horizontal/vertical, moving on ground or hanging on assortment of different things, rising/heating/freezing water, strong air from the side or bottom, riding or transforming into plenty animals etc. pp. And it does so with a strong focus on the respective stage with no progression in-between, so the mechanics used in the respective next stage is always new on the first playthrough.
have to admit, 1 and 3 are ahead of 2 for me.
i prefer the lighter setting.
put 2 is very close and the series is one of the bests ever.
btw.: Smooth McGroove uploaded thos yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fxEPM8OKFU
i prefer the lighter setting.
put 2 is very close and the series is one of the bests ever.
btw.: Smooth McGroove uploaded thos yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fxEPM8OKFU
so land 2 and 3 are good/decent?
Dude, let us dream together. It probably has something to do with Rare being part of Microsoft or whatnot. Im totally talking out my ass though, so who knows.
Agreed. It was so annoying that Nintendo took down the original Rare trilogy from VC.
DKC was a great game, but DKC2 just amped everything up, improved level designs, music, the whole package was a much better effort. I'd say it also feels like the jump from Mega Man to Mega Man 2. Same great idea, but polished to a brilliant shine.
Oddly enough, I never played the third game and for some reason, I didn't care. It just didn't interest me, and the same applies to every subsequent Donkey Kong. DKC2 was the last one I played. I should give Returns a spin sometime though.
Oddly enough, I never played the third game and for some reason, I didn't care. It just didn't interest me, and the same applies to every subsequent Donkey Kong. DKC2 was the last one I played. I should give Returns a spin sometime though.
sixteen-bit
Member
Yeah, that could very well be it but hope springs eternal :/
lwilliams3
Member
sixteen-bit
Member
Oh damn, blast from the past
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412234
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412234
Here we are in the same the boat again The Boat....
This thread was a freaking graveyard. Similiar to this:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=738766
DKC1 feels like they got their ideas out and worked hard to perfect them.
DKC2 feels like they saw what made DKC1 good and really refined and pushed their ideas. The physics had a bit of an upgrade as well, combined with the faster characters, makes for a fast-paced game that rewards you for playing well. This is one of those games I can play where if you hit everything as its laid out, I will gain momentum. They don't give you anything that wasn't already shown to you or introduced in some way. It's a beautifully designed game.
There was an article I read once that talked about how the bananas are the only guide/friend you have in the game since they will always show you things (way to go, bonuses, animal buddies, etc.) that are relevant. I don't think there is a single misplaced banana in this game.
DKC2 feels like they saw what made DKC1 good and really refined and pushed their ideas. The physics had a bit of an upgrade as well, combined with the faster characters, makes for a fast-paced game that rewards you for playing well. This is one of those games I can play where if you hit everything as its laid out, I will gain momentum. They don't give you anything that wasn't already shown to you or introduced in some way. It's a beautifully designed game.
There was an article I read once that talked about how the bananas are the only guide/friend you have in the game since they will always show you things (way to go, bonuses, animal buddies, etc.) that are relevant. I don't think there is a single misplaced banana in this game.
The Xtortionist
Member
Yep.
The brilliant secrets are really what defined DKC2. Never been surpassed.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Good point about the end-goal there. One of the criticisms I had with the original DKC if levels never felt like they ended, they just kinda stopped. Suddenly, you were at the end, and you walked in that cave and uh, yeah I guess that's it? The end-game goal in DKC2 is similar to the Flagpole in SMB1 and various other Nintendo platformers in that it gives each level a proper climax and usually requires a unique method of getting it to the top.
Returns has a similar mechanic, complete with a distinctive music cue to give every stage ending a sense of finality and a little extra challenge for the player to accomplish.
just found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb9-4qLYHqk
donley long country 4: return of the kongs.
fan made sequel.
donley long country 4: return of the kongs.
fan made sequel.
terrisus
Member
I mentioned 1 as a separate entity while not mentioning 2 and 3 since DKL1 was actually its own unique game, whereas 2 and 3 were (very poor) "ports" of DKC 2 and 3.
my nemesis
And while the GBA ports of DKC 1-3 isn't bad, some of the graphics, plus the sound for these ports, however, it's...terrible (I haven't played them in a long time, so forgive me if I'm wrong).
They should've waited until the DS to port them over.
Wonko_C
Member
The only thing that was a bit lacking in DKC2 was the graphics. I know it all was just a trick, but the environments didn't look 3D-ish enough like in the first. RARE themselves admitted to this and promised a better looking DKC3 that was graphically closer to 1. They delivered in that aspect, but the rest of the game felt lesser for some reason.
I'd love to see the return to prerendered sprites and backgrounds for a future DKC title, in full 1080p bliss.
I'd love to see the return to prerendered sprites and backgrounds for a future DKC title, in full 1080p bliss.
ShiroAmakusa
Member
Most reasons why DKC2 is so much better have been mentioned by now. But let's not forgett that even the ending was rewarding! 
I love the pot shot at Sonic and Earthworm Jim.
I love the pot shot at Sonic and Earthworm Jim.
sixteen-bit
Member
GBA ports are also way too bright. Overcompensating for the OG's unlit screen, no doubt.
Interestingly, the GBA port of 3 had a whole new soundtrack unique to that version of the game.
terrisus
Member
I was referring to the original Gameboy ports of 2 and 3.
There was also a GBC port of DKC1
Compared to those, the GBA ports were a significant improvement.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The GBA version of DKC3 had several changes. David Wise did a whole new soundtrack, there's an entire new world called Pacifica, a lot of characters have been moved around, there's a new minigame called Cranky's Dojo, they actually made Rocket Rush even harder for some damn reason, etc. I still prefer the SNES one, but its interesting to look up for novelty's sake.
edit: Oh yeah, I had the GBC port of DKC1. I don't think that was worth the trouble they put into it, lol. There was a fun little new minigame that had you shooting cannons at Kremlings wack-a-mole style, but that's all I remember.
edit: Oh yeah, I had the GBC port of DKC1. I don't think that was worth the trouble they put into it, lol. There was a fun little new minigame that had you shooting cannons at Kremlings wack-a-mole style, but that's all I remember.
The_Endgamer
Member
Playing as Diddy Kong + just cartwheeling all the way through levels was the best.
Most improvements have already been mentioned but i think the soundtrack is the biggest one for me. Made the whole thing much more memorable and the graphics were top notch. Young folks might bag out the look of those games but they're still every bit as beautiful to me as they were when i was a kid.
No nostalgia glasses needed, the game is a beast in every aspect.
Most improvements have already been mentioned but i think the soundtrack is the biggest one for me. Made the whole thing much more memorable and the graphics were top notch. Young folks might bag out the look of those games but they're still every bit as beautiful to me as they were when i was a kid.
No nostalgia glasses needed, the game is a beast in every aspect.
chaobreaker
Member
Eh, Aquatic Ambience, Forest Interlude, Jungle Hijinx, Fear Factory, and Tree Top Rock are my jam.
Yeah but at least with DK you don't feel as crippled using him over Diddy compared to using Diddy when you have Dixie.
Thanks for the info, JC. I plan to pick up the GBA ports as I've barely played DKC and never played 2/3. I do love Returns, though, and what I played of TF the other day was great.
Wise's detachment from DKC3 is, fundamentally, most peoples' issue with the game. However, it's inaccurate to say that he wasn't involved. Eveline Fischer simply did the vast majority of the composure.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Ya know, I actually prefer playing as Diddy in DKC2. He was faster than Dixie, in running, swimming, and climbing. I had an easier time figuring out his cartwheel hitbox than the tail spin, and when hes runs with an barrel he holds it in front, so he can run straight into enemies and not die, unlike Dixie.
That DKC2 soundtrack.
Just listening to some of that music, instantly takes me back to being a kid sitting on the lounge room floor with my friend after school playing that game. I can't think of any music that causes memories to come rushing back quite like that soundtrack.
Amazing stuff.
Just listening to some of that music, instantly takes me back to being a kid sitting on the lounge room floor with my friend after school playing that game. I can't think of any music that causes memories to come rushing back quite like that soundtrack.
Amazing stuff.
themagicalkitsune
Member
heh 'donley long country' ;P
I guess I technically 'finished' 3 through DK Land III, so that leaves 2. Since Nintendo took them off VC, are the GBA ports really the next best thing?
Wonko_C
Member
I don't know what should amaze me more: That this rendition sounds just like the original only with better sounding instruments, or that the SNES' sound samples were just that good. Can't. decide. which. blows. my. mind. more. *dies*
chaobreaker
Member
He could also find hidden breakable walls by hugging walls with his barrels.
That air control still trumps everything Diddy can do. If you want to get to the end of most levels the easiest way possible, you pick Dixie. Diddy is the speedrunning character.
Nocturnowl
Member
DKC2 pretty much improved upon DKC in every single area.
From a level design standpoint DKC2 walks the line between DKC1 and DKC3, DKC1 has pretty basic level design, lots of running forward and bouncing off tires, there's a few interesting gimmicks in there but it felt like it was still trying to find its footing and its much praised underwater levels were often incredibly bland. DKC3 meanwhile is gimmicks galore with no filter for what was a good idea or a bad idea. So DKC2 being in the middle here gave it a stronger emphasis on interesting gimmick stages alongside some more traditional platforming stages, outside of Red Hot Ride which is far too slow for my liking all its gimmicks tended to work well and each stage has something unique to make them stand out right down to the water stages as well.
Animal buddies play a bigger role and the newcomers are fleshed out enough that they can hold entire levels to themselves.
The aesthetics of the game stand out a lot more, it's not just a case of things being more moodier under the grimmer direction of Crocodile Isle, there's the fact that stage archetypes didn't limit themselves so much to the more grounded look of it predecessor and sequel. You'd ride ramshackle rollercoasters, clamber up the sticky honey walls of a zinger hive and journey through twisting bramble mazes up in the clouds, it's all more fantastical and memorable. Even when revisiting an old stage concept in the jungle theme it gets a dense tribal makeover to more sufficiently fit the games bleaker tone.
Even the enemies got retooled under this direction, Pirate Kremlings made for more visually intersting adversaries and led to some more memorable enemies, Krook, Kloak and Kannon do great jobs with the whole pirate gimmick, even the Neckies got in the act sporting a spiffy bandanna. K.Rool himself goes from fat croc that has a generic attack pattern of jumping around, crown throwing and dashing at the player to Kaptain K.Rool with a blunderbuss packing more functions than a swiss army knife making for a far grander finale, bosses on the whole are a big step up but it's hard not be coming off Boss Dumb Drum and Really Gnawty Beaver.
Secret placement in the first DKC is pretty shocking at times, while Rare would leave some areas hinted at by the odd banana other times were just shots in the dark hinted by nothing at all, a game of throwing yourself into pits in the pursuit of bonus rooms which didn't lead to anything particularly interesting. DKC2 placed a greater emphasis on secrets, it hinted towards them more and had Cranky on hand to throw a few hints your way, on top of this the bonus rooms led you to extra levels giving a greater incentive to seek them out. also worth pointing out that DKC2's change to bonus rooms as more like challenge rooms is one of the game's more underrated changes for the better, taking either the stage gimmick or element of the game in general to deliver something unique no matter the limited tasks of collecting stars or bashing baddies.
The duo dynamic is more improved, the Kongs being able to throw each other into tougher enemies or up to higher places feels more teamwork focused than say switching to Donkey in order to jump on a Krusha because Diddy can't. Despite both being characters of a similar build Dixie differentiates herself with the helicopter spin while Diddy gets to be touch quicker with a slightly higher jump. Yeah i've seen a few times that people say the first DKC had it better for the whole DK weight factor over Diddy's sort of speed, in that case DKC3 wins all because it has all of the above and then some.
And then there's the music, Dave Wise knocked it into orbit, what more needs to be said?
Overall there's more polish be it better (if still not perfect) collision detection, less cheap shots, a better defined difficulty curve and more varied stage styles with certain archetypes focusing entirely on vertical progression.
Not bad for a game smashed out a mere year later, now for the love of all that is decent Nintendo get this on the Wii U VC or get those 3D Genesis/Mega Drive fellas to work their arcane magic on a 3D DKC trilogy.
From a level design standpoint DKC2 walks the line between DKC1 and DKC3, DKC1 has pretty basic level design, lots of running forward and bouncing off tires, there's a few interesting gimmicks in there but it felt like it was still trying to find its footing and its much praised underwater levels were often incredibly bland. DKC3 meanwhile is gimmicks galore with no filter for what was a good idea or a bad idea. So DKC2 being in the middle here gave it a stronger emphasis on interesting gimmick stages alongside some more traditional platforming stages, outside of Red Hot Ride which is far too slow for my liking all its gimmicks tended to work well and each stage has something unique to make them stand out right down to the water stages as well.
Animal buddies play a bigger role and the newcomers are fleshed out enough that they can hold entire levels to themselves.
The aesthetics of the game stand out a lot more, it's not just a case of things being more moodier under the grimmer direction of Crocodile Isle, there's the fact that stage archetypes didn't limit themselves so much to the more grounded look of it predecessor and sequel. You'd ride ramshackle rollercoasters, clamber up the sticky honey walls of a zinger hive and journey through twisting bramble mazes up in the clouds, it's all more fantastical and memorable. Even when revisiting an old stage concept in the jungle theme it gets a dense tribal makeover to more sufficiently fit the games bleaker tone.
Even the enemies got retooled under this direction, Pirate Kremlings made for more visually intersting adversaries and led to some more memorable enemies, Krook, Kloak and Kannon do great jobs with the whole pirate gimmick, even the Neckies got in the act sporting a spiffy bandanna. K.Rool himself goes from fat croc that has a generic attack pattern of jumping around, crown throwing and dashing at the player to Kaptain K.Rool with a blunderbuss packing more functions than a swiss army knife making for a far grander finale, bosses on the whole are a big step up but it's hard not be coming off Boss Dumb Drum and Really Gnawty Beaver.
Secret placement in the first DKC is pretty shocking at times, while Rare would leave some areas hinted at by the odd banana other times were just shots in the dark hinted by nothing at all, a game of throwing yourself into pits in the pursuit of bonus rooms which didn't lead to anything particularly interesting. DKC2 placed a greater emphasis on secrets, it hinted towards them more and had Cranky on hand to throw a few hints your way, on top of this the bonus rooms led you to extra levels giving a greater incentive to seek them out. also worth pointing out that DKC2's change to bonus rooms as more like challenge rooms is one of the game's more underrated changes for the better, taking either the stage gimmick or element of the game in general to deliver something unique no matter the limited tasks of collecting stars or bashing baddies.
The duo dynamic is more improved, the Kongs being able to throw each other into tougher enemies or up to higher places feels more teamwork focused than say switching to Donkey in order to jump on a Krusha because Diddy can't. Despite both being characters of a similar build Dixie differentiates herself with the helicopter spin while Diddy gets to be touch quicker with a slightly higher jump. Yeah i've seen a few times that people say the first DKC had it better for the whole DK weight factor over Diddy's sort of speed, in that case DKC3 wins all because it has all of the above and then some.
And then there's the music, Dave Wise knocked it into orbit, what more needs to be said?
Overall there's more polish be it better (if still not perfect) collision detection, less cheap shots, a better defined difficulty curve and more varied stage styles with certain archetypes focusing entirely on vertical progression.
Not bad for a game smashed out a mere year later, now for the love of all that is decent Nintendo get this on the Wii U VC or get those 3D Genesis/Mega Drive fellas to work their arcane magic on a 3D DKC trilogy.
goldenpp72
Member
Cooler, more varied mood, better music, more consistent graphics (backgrounds and foregrounds blend better), playing as both one fast character and another one that can float, more interesting level designs/themes. It's the perfect sequel, 3 was also excellent in its own way.
Buckethead
Banned
You played as Diddy in DKC anyway, Dixie's physics were fun as hell.
Wonko_C
Member
One DKC2 remix for the Vocaloid fans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7czo0xOJWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7czo0xOJWo
I dare you to listen to the whole of it.
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