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What made Fire Emblem:Awakening such a huge success?
- Thread starter foxuzamaki
- Start date
Nightengale
Member
In my honest opinion, most Japanese games are very trope and cliche-heavy. The only reason they get passes is because they get compared to terrible games that are bad at them. I'm saying this not as a bad thing, because I think cliches and tropes are often unfairly perceived as a bad thing.
Valkyria is one example. I'd say that the first game was just as 'cliche' as the 2nd game, yet the 2nd game gets the bulk of hate because SCHOOL SETTING LMAO that shaped the perception. That, and the first game's characters were more likable as well. Likeable characters, imo, makes them get passes from being trope-y.
I'm talking perception management. It doesn't get stigmatised as being 'hurrr animu' from the get-go, which opens the game to a wider audience who's willing to give the game a pass instead of writing it off as being 'animu shit.'
Crash Station
Member
I'd like to think it's because of how streamlined the game is compared to the rest of the series while still remaining challenging for those that want it to be.
Or it could be the waifus :/
Or it could be the waifus :/
I think for the amount of characters it worked well, somehow hah. It was really interesting to see how certain characters would react to others of similar and different personalities. They made it easier to gain supports too so it was overall just more enjoyable.
TheRedSnifit
Member
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Good word of mouth, a good demo, and good reviews.
But secretly Tharja.
Femmeworth
Banned
I don't know if that is really the case. It's not like it had mainstream success.
She's nice and broken, which was appreciated
Sumia's great...as filler until you get Cordelia
The true wife, and the most OP daughter combo!
MMMMMMMMM, Galeforce all day yall.
Having worked game retail during its release, my bet is on the fairly long drought of titles for more hardcore gamers at the time. Word of mouth spread like fire at its release, and the short supply and lack of anything else coming out kept the buzz going for quite a while.
Also the short supply drove more digital sales which undoubtedly have a higher profit margin.
It was all in the timing though. It wouldn't have done as well without it.
Also the short supply drove more digital sales which undoubtedly have a higher profit margin.
It was all in the timing though. It wouldn't have done as well without it.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Yeah I think timing and the fact that Nintendo actually threw its muscle into marketing it as a marquee title helped.
Plus it had decent production values for a FE/3DS game, which raised its profile.
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
It's kinda silly to say it sold a million because of Tharya.
It was Sully
At that point Nintendo was releasing a bunch of great 3DS games in quick succession. The Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion and Fire Emblem three hit punch helped each other in my opinion. These games on their own were getting great reviews and people were getting hyped and excited for the 3DS and its library and the same could be said in regards to the press and how everyone was just gushing whenever talking about the 3DS. It was the system to get last year and having FE launch alongside the other two helped I feel. Couple that with a good marketing push in general including the So many Games! Promotion in Europe, the odds were in its favour. The game looked stylish and got really good reviews too. Hell even DKCR 3D did well last year and Luigi's Mansion was a massive success story. 3DS was going great last year.
If the game launched this year I feel it might be a different story. Just look at the blink and you'll miss it releases for Kirby Triple Deluxe, Yoshi and Mario Golf. Kirby was apparently a good game but 3DS has been in a bit of a lull this year, however I don't doubt these games still sold well and Smash and Pokemon will obviously ensure that the 3DS will have a great year this year.
If the game launched this year I feel it might be a different story. Just look at the blink and you'll miss it releases for Kirby Triple Deluxe, Yoshi and Mario Golf. Kirby was apparently a good game but 3DS has been in a bit of a lull this year, however I don't doubt these games still sold well and Smash and Pokemon will obviously ensure that the 3DS will have a great year this year.
While I never played this (as I don't own a 3DS), my best guess that it was the Persona 3 for the series.
What I mean by that is that they made the gameplay stremlined enough so that people with the most basic understanding of the game-type (SRPG in this case) can just jump in and have a good time. The Persona games had somewhat confusing gameplay systems in P1 and the two P2 games, but Persona 3 onwards had its gameplay much more grounded in traditional RPG games (turn-based combat).
The biggest factor of this games success though is the reason why I am comparing it with Persona 3; the characters and the story.
In P3, the game really opened the flood gates for character development by direct-interaction with much of the game's cast via the Social Link system (which also has in impact on the core gameplay via Persona Fusion system). With FE: Awakening, you are encouraged to pair up your units and have them grow stronger together (while I'm sure this has many gameplay mechanics linked to this, I don't own the game, so I'm not sure exactly how that works sadly
). This, like the S-Links in P3 and P4, also have story elements too; you have interesting interactions with the characters and it also has some huge story elements too (particularly with Chrom; if you pair the FM Avatar with him, from what I saw on YouTube, a big story moment has some interesting alternate paths).
The last major reason why the game was a hit was the fact that....it wasn't like normal Nintendo games. Sure, they all have some kind of story in place and sometimes even they are great (the Mario RPG series, KI: Uprising, ect) but FE: Awakening was much more mature story-wise compared to a lot of Nintendo's output, so that must have drawn some attention too. The game also has a mode where you units don't completely die if they are killed (there is a mode that retains that in Awakening) but that fact does help make new comers more relaxed when playing the game; they don't want to be attached to their favorite units only for them to get killed by some poor planing or a high-level enime unit.
What I mean by that is that they made the gameplay stremlined enough so that people with the most basic understanding of the game-type (SRPG in this case) can just jump in and have a good time. The Persona games had somewhat confusing gameplay systems in P1 and the two P2 games, but Persona 3 onwards had its gameplay much more grounded in traditional RPG games (turn-based combat).
The biggest factor of this games success though is the reason why I am comparing it with Persona 3; the characters and the story.
In P3, the game really opened the flood gates for character development by direct-interaction with much of the game's cast via the Social Link system (which also has in impact on the core gameplay via Persona Fusion system). With FE: Awakening, you are encouraged to pair up your units and have them grow stronger together (while I'm sure this has many gameplay mechanics linked to this, I don't own the game, so I'm not sure exactly how that works sadly
). This, like the S-Links in P3 and P4, also have story elements too; you have interesting interactions with the characters and it also has some huge story elements too (particularly with Chrom; if you pair the FM Avatar with him, from what I saw on YouTube, a big story moment has some interesting alternate paths). The last major reason why the game was a hit was the fact that....it wasn't like normal Nintendo games. Sure, they all have some kind of story in place and sometimes even they are great (the Mario RPG series, KI: Uprising, ect) but FE: Awakening was much more mature story-wise compared to a lot of Nintendo's output, so that must have drawn some attention too. The game also has a mode where you units don't completely die if they are killed (there is a mode that retains that in Awakening) but that fact does help make new comers more relaxed when playing the game; they don't want to be attached to their favorite units only for them to get killed by some poor planing or a high-level enime unit
.fatgamecat
Member
They saved the series sales numbers, but at what cost?
Awakening's balance, challenge, and level design was a fall from grace from FE12.
Awakening's balance, challenge, and level design was a fall from grace from FE12.
It's all about word of mouth, hype, and marketing.
Awakening came around the time that people were well versed in Fire Emblem via SSBM and SSBB's marketing. The series' existing fans massively hyped the game, protested Nintendo on its E3 chatroom after its failure to mention any localization for FE:A, and talked endlessly about Nintendo's failure to deliver physical copies around the release date.
The 3DS, at the same time, was noteworthy for having a game library that was a bit lackluster. People wanted a game, and FE:A was all too ready to define a console.
Game reviewers were all too happy to mention that the 3DS had a real, dedicated RPG with full 3D. Being aware of the hype, general 3DS owner interest, and Fire Emblem's history of localization, they were pressured to release positive reviews for the game in a way that was inconsistent with how they reviewed previous FEs. This was the explicit go signal to the interested 3DS owners who weren't yet sold on an unfamiliar game series.
To be quite honest, it's really sad, as FE:A is a poorly balanced FE with egregiously bad map design and fake difficulty as well as the worst FE story to date. I'm worried that FE will go a full fledged Persona route and sacrifice gameplay and story for the characters. But hey, at least the series didn't die... some of the stories about how Nintendo was ready to give up on a franchise with double digit iterations are scary enough that I'm just glad that FE won't just exist in potentia as a source of Smash Bros. characters.
Awakening came around the time that people were well versed in Fire Emblem via SSBM and SSBB's marketing. The series' existing fans massively hyped the game, protested Nintendo on its E3 chatroom after its failure to mention any localization for FE:A, and talked endlessly about Nintendo's failure to deliver physical copies around the release date.
The 3DS, at the same time, was noteworthy for having a game library that was a bit lackluster. People wanted a game, and FE:A was all too ready to define a console.
Game reviewers were all too happy to mention that the 3DS had a real, dedicated RPG with full 3D. Being aware of the hype, general 3DS owner interest, and Fire Emblem's history of localization, they were pressured to release positive reviews for the game in a way that was inconsistent with how they reviewed previous FEs. This was the explicit go signal to the interested 3DS owners who weren't yet sold on an unfamiliar game series.
To be quite honest, it's really sad, as FE:A is a poorly balanced FE with egregiously bad map design and fake difficulty as well as the worst FE story to date. I'm worried that FE will go a full fledged Persona route and sacrifice gameplay and story for the characters. But hey, at least the series didn't die... some of the stories about how Nintendo was ready to give up on a franchise with double digit iterations are scary enough that I'm just glad that FE won't just exist in potentia as a source of Smash Bros. characters.
fredrancour
Member
Increased presence of support conversations and romance elements.
Easy access to grinding.
Permadeath optional.
Anime-like enough to appeal to some jrpg fans who hadn't previously played the series without indulging in the more widely maligned anime cliches in large quantities.
Those series staples of limited support convos, limited experience, and permadeath just provided stress to many gamers without adding enjoyment.
What makes me hopeful for future fire emblem games: they can maintain all the accessibility tweaks while improving level design. Marriage can even stay, though more timewarping children would be a tough sell. They could even, in FE gaf's wildest dreams, have another difficulty toggle to enable or disable grinding.
Easy access to grinding.
Permadeath optional.
Anime-like enough to appeal to some jrpg fans who hadn't previously played the series without indulging in the more widely maligned anime cliches in large quantities.
Those series staples of limited support convos, limited experience, and permadeath just provided stress to many gamers without adding enjoyment.
What makes me hopeful for future fire emblem games: they can maintain all the accessibility tweaks while improving level design. Marriage can even stay, though more timewarping children would be a tough sell. They could even, in FE gaf's wildest dreams, have another difficulty toggle to enable or disable grinding.
Iwould probably play with grinding enabled.
I like this one better.
#TeamXL
This exists!? Why didn't North America get it?
Aaron-Lagann
Banned
I don't think the Waifu thing was a selling point, but I think was something that made people love the game more when they got it. Everyone I talk to about that game has strong feelings on who they paired up, even people who have no interest in those mechanics in other games.
Femmeworth
Banned
Preaching the word.
Chapter 9.
Jathaine
Member
You can bet that future titles (should the series continue) will be more like Awakening than previous entries too given the fact that they were supposedly about to shelf it.
super-famicom
Member
I really want a 3DS or 2DS and this game now.
Nightengale
Member
Well, I have no stats to back me up, it's all assumptions.
And I'm not really comparing its success to other mainstream successes, I'm looking at it more from a lense of 'anime-games' that are talked about with a lot less stigma to their nature, such as Valkyria 1 and Persona 4, both games that arguably did better than a pessimist would expect out of them, but still below mainstream success.
Because what I'm seeing is that there's a range of games like NnK, VC1, Persona 4 and FEA that, despite being 'so anime', whenever conversations about these games are brought up, I rarely see much negativity around their 'anime-ness', and that there's far less negative association when talking 'waifus' in those games, as opposed to say... waifus in IDOLM@STER.
It's just what I'm seeing anyway. I'm glad to be wrong on this, personally, because I dislike it, myself.
But Cordelia wont shutup about Chrom, even after she gets married
Good summary of my thoughts.
I really think none of this would've happened though without the excellent production values and overall quality of the game.
Don't know if any of the waifu/husbando business had anything to do with it.
Nightengale
Member
A visit to Bioware forums will tell you all you need to know, and why Bioware keeps doing its husbandos and waifus.
StreetsAhead
Member
I recall many angry fans who were calling for blood when the game was first announced (refreshed art style) and then when the marriage aspects were announced and then again when the DLC was announced, too.
I only see map design as being the only huge sacrifice.
Fire Emblem was a tropey waifu game from the very first game on the NES.
I said a few times on here that I disliked the art style but over time it grew on me.
haha understandable, although you missed out on your demi-gawd of a child. :3
Nightengale
Member
Well, it was very subdued though. You had to put in a lot of effort to build your Cupid Collection, and your rewards were usually but a short, succinct moment that made you go "Eh, that's it?"
Awakening amplified all that by a factor of five.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Tbh, pairing, (potentially) limitless xp and class resetting to get max stats and the best combination of class skills was pretty bad for balance.
Giving later enemies a combination of particularly troll-worthy class skills to inflate the difficulty is up there a bit, also.
For me, there was definitely some loss of the 'feel' of arranging units just-so after the start of the 2nd act.
I feel like they went overboard on the one-dimensionality of some of the characters. The avatar's daughter being a tsundere made me roll my eyes.
She's the standout one that I remember but there were others that were really bad. And while FE may have always had characters like that, it felt like this one had an obnoxious amount of them with zero depth.
But lest I get taken the wrong way, I think that the tropey waifu stuff was minor in the grand scheme of things.
I thought the map/objective design was really poor (too many "kill all enemies" maps with no thought needed as unit placement), the balance was off (particularly due to unlimited grinding and the pairing mechanic), and the story was fairly weak.
QuixoticNeutral
Member
Something to keep in mind apart from the marketing: Fire Emblem has been slowly gaining traction outside of Japan for ages, primarily due to Smash. The Smash effect can't be understated: Melee and Brawl were primarily responsible in giving FE any kind of foothold outside of Japan at all and in motivating localizations. However, the releases never made the kind of opportune splash that Awakening did, largely because of timing.
Consider: FE7 and 8 were localized on the GBA after Melee, but at that point the series was an unknown quantity and relied entirely on a minute drip of word-of-mouth just as the GBA made way for the 3DS (and it really is astonishing how short the GBA's three-year lifespan seems now).
FE9 was released late in the GameCube's life when the system was perceived as on its way out; as with the Wii's later years, people's eyes were already on the next system and many had already sold the console from underuse. Thanks to a lack of initial interest, it went out of print so quickly that even people arriving late to the series were unable to access it until the rise of the Dolphin emulator.
FE10 had to contend with being a direct story sequel, a conspicuous bumping from the GameCube to the Wii partway through development, and some tepid early reviews not only because of its difficulty but because it released early enough in the Wii's life that reviewers griped about games not taking advantage of Wii features such as pointer controls. It was doomed to be neglected from the start.
Shadow Dragon was so clearly positioned as a remake without many of the mechanical improvements in the titles previously localized for a west that even new FE enthusiasts who had played FE7 through 10 didn't jump on it.
Awakening, seen in this light, was actually the first real Fire Emblem release in the west since Brawl. Whereas Melee's presentation of FE amounted to Marth and Roy (both "huh?" unlockable characters in the west) and a music track on Hyrule Temple, Brawl developed Fire Emblem's presence as a pivotal Nintendo IP with a recent character (Ike) along with a stage. Awakening also came at the head of the 3DS library's ascent and was present as a bundle in the exact season that droves of players were finally persuaded to adopt the platform, and it didn't hurt that it was widely billed by players and reviewers alike as the best game on the system as well as the most feature-complete of the series. All the right ingredients came together to make it the first Fire Emblem for manyincluding those who had previously played the series but only via emulation as the older games, even the localized ones, were not easy to access otherwise.
Also, marketing.
Consider: FE7 and 8 were localized on the GBA after Melee, but at that point the series was an unknown quantity and relied entirely on a minute drip of word-of-mouth just as the GBA made way for the 3DS (and it really is astonishing how short the GBA's three-year lifespan seems now).
FE9 was released late in the GameCube's life when the system was perceived as on its way out; as with the Wii's later years, people's eyes were already on the next system and many had already sold the console from underuse. Thanks to a lack of initial interest, it went out of print so quickly that even people arriving late to the series were unable to access it until the rise of the Dolphin emulator.
FE10 had to contend with being a direct story sequel, a conspicuous bumping from the GameCube to the Wii partway through development, and some tepid early reviews not only because of its difficulty but because it released early enough in the Wii's life that reviewers griped about games not taking advantage of Wii features such as pointer controls. It was doomed to be neglected from the start.
Shadow Dragon was so clearly positioned as a remake without many of the mechanical improvements in the titles previously localized for a west that even new FE enthusiasts who had played FE7 through 10 didn't jump on it.
Awakening, seen in this light, was actually the first real Fire Emblem release in the west since Brawl. Whereas Melee's presentation of FE amounted to Marth and Roy (both "huh?" unlockable characters in the west) and a music track on Hyrule Temple, Brawl developed Fire Emblem's presence as a pivotal Nintendo IP with a recent character (Ike) along with a stage. Awakening also came at the head of the 3DS library's ascent and was present as a bundle in the exact season that droves of players were finally persuaded to adopt the platform, and it didn't hurt that it was widely billed by players and reviewers alike as the best game on the system as well as the most feature-complete of the series. All the right ingredients came together to make it the first Fire Emblem for manyincluding those who had previously played the series but only via emulation as the older games, even the localized ones, were not easy to access otherwise.
Also, marketing.
You could have an army of girls in miniskirts by chapter 10. Fire Emblem isn't Europa Universalis, never was and will never will be.
The whole marriage system is a callback to Fire Emblem 4 anyway which is the most beloved Fire Emblem in Japan.
Palette Swap
Member
Marketing probably helped a lot:
- TV ads (at least in Europe)
- pushing it as an "AAA" title in the handheld space (as Luigi, MH or Animal Crossing were)
- Promotions: in Europe, it was part of the "so many games" promotion and in NA, there was the SMT4 thing that probably helped too.
- TV ads (at least in Europe)
- pushing it as an "AAA" title in the handheld space (as Luigi, MH or Animal Crossing were)
- Promotions: in Europe, it was part of the "so many games" promotion and in NA, there was the SMT4 thing that probably helped too.
Yeah, I had forgotten the LE wasn't an XL everywhere. I actually got mine on sale 2 months after it released, it was cheaper than a regular 3DS XL IIRC.
I like this one better.
#TeamXL
D
