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[Contica]

Well, we get how many of these movies in a year? Three? Four? It's hard to keep it fresh and memorable when you jave all these movies in the same universe with the same characters doing the same thing mutiple times in a year, year after year going on a decade.

I lost interest a long time ago, but if you dig it, good for you.

If they went this route with dinosaur movies I'd be all for it though.

 

[TurnipFritters]

this is a revisionist as it gets, good lord

It makes sense, Batman versus Superman, a film starring the two most famous superheroes in American pop culture, did not flop financially, and therefore The Avengers, a movie that came out years earlier and starred a bunch of characters that the American public was so unfamiliar with they needed their own solo movies first, was not a risk

 

[pigeon]

I see this as a common complaint among people who dislike the MCU and, while I love the Marvel Cinematic Universe (with a few exceptions), I can't help but agree with this sentiment. Doctor Strange, Ant-Man, Thor, Iron Man 2, and Thor 2 are movies that aside from some scenes and a general synopsis, would struggle to remember without any clues.

Even Spider-Man Homecoming, while a great movie, felt like it was forgotten within the first
two weeks of it coming out. Could part of that blame be placed on War for the Planet of the Apes? Yeah I think so but why did such an an anticipated movie seem to drop off like I feel Spider-Man did? It was still a good movie, it's just weird to me.

Is this due to the "Marvel formula" that the movies are infamous for adhering to? Or maybe it's, and this is my hypothesis, that in Marvel comics (and most comics in general), most stories are forgettable. Good runs with good writers and interesting ideas are what make good comics stand out from mediocre comics. The same goes for movies as well, and is probably why The Winter Soldier was so good.

What do you guys think?

Film Critic Hulk wrote about this a little while ago.

MCEU movies have a tendency to have no emotional throughline. What's the message of Spider-Man: Homecoming? How does Spider-Man grow and change? What emotional obstacles does he overcome? What's the moral of the story?

The answer is that he mostly doesn't, and the moral of the story is...what? "Evil is bad?"

So you tend to forget movies like that.

The big glaring exception is the first Guardians of the Galaxy, which does have a strong emotional throughline (overcoming your feeling of failure towards lost family figures by forging new connections with friends) complete with beats that don't make much sense in the story but work emotionally (why exactly does Peter see Gamora as his mother after he grabs the gem?) and so is still well-remembered by people. The second GG movie doesn't do any of that and is much more forgettable.

 

[DuffDry]

It's because comic book movies are meant to serve as trailers and hype machines first and movies second.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

Boba Fett was a forgettable jobber but you have him as your avatar. Memory works in mysterious ways.

 

[JCHandsom]

Someone like EFAP or Nerdwriter needs to do an analysis on why Logan was so much fucking better than any MCU movie.

Nerdwriter already made one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT75YHqlD9k

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Cause they fucking suck

Ding, ding, ding! We got a winner!

 

[Pai Pai Master]

No but there is zero tension in most of these movies. A bunch of silly one liner jokes mixed with fights/ explosions isn't really a good formula for conveying a story with actual stakes. I don't need iron man to die or the world to end, but it'd be nice to feel like there was a chance something at all major could happen to the characters or world. Shit all the movies are connected, maybe don't let the protagonists win every time...have an Empire Strikes Back kind of episode at some point (admittedly that might have occurred, I haven't watched all the marvel movies)

They just feel like "paint by numbers" in movie form.

Tony's PTSD in Iron Man 3, as a result of the battle in The Avengers, is what essentially causes the near-extinction of humanity in Age of Ultron. Tony's handling of that situation is part of what causes the Sokovia Accords to be signed, which ends up fracturing the Avengers as a team in Captain America: Civil War.

Again, just because the heroes don't die doesn't mean they don't deal with consequences.

 

[Jumeira]

I guess because they continue to undermine each movie and everything is forgotten? I mean Civil War wasn't a war is was a scuffle in an air port, by the end they're all mates. What was the point? Nothing of consequence happens and they don't lose much. I mean, losing thier team name is quite trivial in the grand scheme of things lol.

Logan, Deadpool, Days of Future Past, great movies that are memorable because the tension and stake is pretty damn high. Hero's die. MCU is a cash cow so you know all will be ok because they got to make appearances in each others movies. Kojima inspired script and pretty dances with over produced effects (More buildings crumble yaaaaaawn) doesn't help. They are the CoD of movie world ATM.

Guardians was fresh though, I liked it because it was a huge departure from the rest.

 

[Tony Redgrave]

Most of them follow a similar narrative formula, double that down for the multiple origin stories. They also share a similar running time, humor beats, bland music and artistic direction (with some exceptions like Winter Soldier).

Basically, they are chain manufactured movies wich usually revolve around the same themes and motifs. They are still fun but forgettable.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Nerswriter is incredibly surface level shit and he will stretch one or two small points for 10 minutes.

 

[DeathyBoy]

It really isn't hyperbolic.

They're very Well Made (TM) films that essentially serve as trailers for the next film and to sell toys and video games.

They're non-sense, fluff stories.

No, see, Winter Soldier is up there with Redford's best films from the 1970s.

 

[radios shipping overview]

No context. No messy details. No concept too foreign or strange that doesn't have an accompanying quip to make the audience feel at home. Nothing to hold up the flow from one action scene to the next. Mainly jokes in between, with a breather here and there. No real ups, no real downs. Similar cinematography and scores. Each one is a ride meant to keep you entertained for two hours and isn't worried about much else.

 

[itwasTuesday]

The lack of any hard core nudity is my guess.

 

[Solo]

The writing.

 

[Sephzilla]

I guess because they continue to undermine each movie and everything is forgotten? I mean Civil War wasn't a war is was a scuffle in an air port, by the end they're all mates. What was the point? Nothing of consequence happens and they don't lose much. I mean, losing thier team name is quite trivial in the grand scheme of things lol.

Logan, Deadpool, Days of Future Past, great movies that are memorable because the tension and stake is pretty damn high. Hero's die. MCU is a cash cow so you know all will be ok because they got to make appearances in each others movies.

Nobody of significance dies in Days of Future Past though.

 

[LinkSlayer64]

I didn't forget them at all :/

The big glaring exception is the first Guardians of the Galaxy, which does have a strong emotional throughline (overcoming your feeling of failure towards lost family figures by forging new connections with friends)

I didn't feel like that was the point.

 

[JCHandsom]

The second GG movie doesn't do any of that and is much more forgettable.

The second GG movie is chock full of themes on family and parenting, perhaps even moreso than the first movie.

 

[Lights and Waves]

Alright I'll take the L. You guys win.

 

[phanphare]

I guess because they continue to undermine each movie and everything is forgotten? I mean Civil War wasn't a war is was a scuffle in an air port, by the end they're all mates. What was the point? Nothing of consequence happens and they don't lose much. I mean, losing thier team name is quite trivial in the grand scheme of things lol.

Logan, Deadpool, Days of Future Past, great movies that are memorable because the tension and stake is pretty damn high. Hero's die. MCU is a cash cow so you know all will be ok because they got to make appearances in each others movies.

"by the end they're all mates"

you watch a different movie or something?

 

[Machine]

If they were truly forgettable, nerds on the internet wouldn't argue so much about them.

 

[pigeon]

The second GG movie is chock full of themes on family and parenting, perhaps even moreso than the first movie.

Just writing "hey here's your dad kid, oh but he's evil" is not an emotional throughline.

 

[ZeoVGM]

The big glaring exception is the first Guardians of the Galaxy, which does have a strong emotional throughline (overcoming your feeling of failure towards lost family figures by forging new connections with friends) complete with beats that don't make much sense in the story but work emotionally (why exactly does Peter see Gamora as his mother after he grabs the gem?) and so is still well-remembered by people. The second GG movie doesn't do any of that and is much more forgettable.

Guardians 2 seems like a weird example considering it's likely the most emotionally hitting movie in the MCU.

 

[sugarman]

You can usually predict what is going to happen from a mile away. Although I did like Doctor Strange.

 

[Iksenpets]

They're not really plot heavy, so there's not a lot to remember. They usually just set up some basic plot around some McGuffin or generic bad guy, and then just use that as a playground for the characters to do the thing. So the movie is generally fun while you're watching it, but if asked to describe what happened, it's hard to really say.

 

[ZeoVGM]

No, see, Winter Soldier is up there with Redford's best films from the 1970s.

Well it's about time we got some unbiased opinions in here.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Spider-Man: Homecoming, Thor, Guardians of the Galaxy and Iron Man 3 are all the same exact movie, brehs.

 

[Principate]

Nobody of significance dies in Days of Future Past though.

Everyone died in Days of Future past outside of Logan they all however are replaced by selves that didn't live through or did in the trash that was the last stand.

 

[RadioJoNES64]

They're really boring and the action looks so goofy that they never keep my focus.

 

[vern]

"stakes" don't have to be the life and death of the protagonist. Civil War could have killed off Steve or Tony-but narratively it's much more interesting to fragment them and have to deal with the ramifications of their choices in that movie. Those are indeed very real stakes-just not "life and death".

This reminds of me people that complained week after week watching The Sopranos because no one was getting "Whacked".

What choices did they make... i barely remember (hence the thread lol) but one guy wanted to report to the government and one wanted to be freelance right? And then they "fought" and became friends again... Or something more impactful and "stakes raising" happened? I really barely remember that movie.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier had probably the most world-changing event in the MCU and it's also a movie where none of the main characters died. Funny you bring up Logan,because outside of [LOGAN SPOILERS, OBVIOUSLY]

Spoiler

Professor X and Logan dying

very little of that movie's world is affected by the events of the movie.

Thinking that one of the main characters needs to die in order for it to feel like anything is at stake is some Joss Whedon tier hack thinking

Thinking that I said a main character needs to die when I didn't say anything of the sort is hack tier level reading.

 

[DoctorFling]

They're fine blockbuster entertainment. They're not attempting to be arthouse movies nor are they mindless nonsense like Transformers or Fast and Furious. That being said I could do without the company shilling fanboy wars that permeate every discussion about them.

 

[Knuckle Sandwich]

Aside from GOTG and TWS they are just very vanilla and the bad ones aren't so bad that they stick out.

 

[Sephzilla]

Everyone died in Days of Future past outside of Logan they all however are replaced by selves that didn't live through or did in the trash that was the last stand.

Everyone who dies in Days of Future Past is alive again by the end of the movie. Shit, there are more superheroes at the end of the movie than at the start of the movie.

Thinking that I said a main character needs to die when I didn't say anything of the sort is hack tier level reading.

Well your original comment directly mentions the main character dying, so that's just where i got that from (to clarify)

Do you really think the end of the world is gonna happen or Iron Man will die or anything of consequence will ever occur? ��

 

[MechDX]

I miss the days of "Looks like TV"

 

[Jumeira]

Nobody of significance dies in Days of Future Past though.

An entire timeline is wiped out. Everyone in the past starts being taken out, and how they weave it back together was pretty damn satisfying.

Also, the music in MCU doesn't help, nothing stands out, like they got Super hero music #76 playing for movie #6.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Everyone who dies in Days of Future Past is alive again by the end of the movie. Shit, there are more superheroes at the end of the movie than at the start of the movie.

There are more resurrections than in the entire MCU.

 

[JB1981]

Homecoming is forgettable because it isn't about anything really. Thematically it is really hollow and has none of the mythic power that Raimi's Spider-Man did.

 

[JCHandsom]

Just writing "hey here's your dad kid, oh but he's evil" is not an emotional throughline.

There was also
- Peter and Yondu's relationship
- Gamora and Nebula trying to work through their abuse
- Drax and Mantis connecting over their pasts
- Rocket and Yondu both feeling like cast-off and mistreated outsiders by everyone
- Yondu and his relationship with the other Ravagers

These are all part of the same emotional throughline.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Well it's about time we got some unbiased opinions in here.

Oh look kids, it's Zeovgm, Gaf's answer to a question nobody asked.

Winter Soldier is a fun film. But the absurd deification of it like it's some classic on a par with Redford's 70s output is some delusional bullshit. And yes, that's directly from Gaf threads.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

It's becoming more apparent to me that The Cinematic Universe is what ties Marvel films together. I view each film as a TV show episode, instead of as a stand alone film.

Looking at them in this light makes me appreciate them a lot more. They have consistency, and it's clear to see that there might be a Dunning–Kruger effect going on, given the failures of the competitors.
It looks like Marvel is a really low effort operation, but then you look at the disasters around it, and you begin to realize, that what they are doing is quite remarkable.


I hope Thor 3 will be as fun and entertaining as the trailer showed. My comic book friends talked about something in the comics with Hulk in space, and I didn't know what they meant, which is probably also another thing. These things are also made for comic book fans. It's clear that fans like to appreciate the outfits, the characters and all that. For the rest of us who is not that into it, we're comparing it to John Wick or something else, and just looking at it at a 1:1.


I've been one of the individuals who've shat pretty hard on a lot of Marvel films, and frankly, it's not a very pleasent or productive outlook. I really want to get more out of these films because they are fun, and it's fun to enjoy dumb fun things. Watched Baby Driver last month, and that was a lot of stupid fun.

And I think Guardians 2 was a lot of fun. Logan was really, really good. I am actually insanely excited for Thor 3. The 80s sthick in the trailer totally floored me. Please be good Thor 3. I want to support what I think you are. That kitsch, self-awareness. Feel goodness. I love its tone!

 

[Akuun]

Not all of the films fall into this category, but the films that are called "forgettable" are usually the ones that are all flashiness and no substance underneath it. For example, when you see a guy get knocked through a few walls and come back out as if nothing happened, that's normally supposed to look badass, but in superhero movies it happens to FUCKING EVERYONE all the damn time. It's such an overdone thing in fights that entire fight sequences with people getting knocked around with tons of destruction everywhere just becomes boring to watch because you know everyone will come out unscathed in the end. There's no sense that any of the characters are ever in danger.

Same goes for plot progression in some of these movies. Oh no, something threatens the world again. Obviously it'll be stopped and nothing will change, because this is a persistent movie universe and you know that the executives don't want to burn any bridges. At most, very minor changes will happen. It just makes it hard to care. The better superhero movies get around this by at least being creative about it so that it's at least interesting to watch even though you know what'll happen, but a lot of the worse movies are very rote about how they resolve their conflicts. Some movies just throw in a lot of explosions and call it a day.

 

[Sephzilla]

There are more resurrections than in the entire MCU.

TheOfficeThankYou.gif

The people in the MCU who've died have at least stayed dead

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Spider-Man: Homecoming, Thor, Guardians of the Galaxy and Iron Man 3 are all the same exact movie, brehs.

Isn't Tony a kid doctor in high school from the mean streets of Queens, Asgard? 🤔

 

[Xe4]

They feel as if they're designed by committee to me. They almost always tend to be good, but few end up as great.

There are exceptions of course. Guardians was one, I think. Winter Soldier another. I have a good feeling about Thor 3 being a third.

The rest are really... meh? Great entertainment, but not much else. There are few action scenes that blow me away, or plot lines that come at me very unexpectedly. The villains are pretty vanilla as well.

At the very least they're not actively bad, which is something most superhero movies had wished for a long time back in the 90's and such.

 

[D4Danger]

I miss the days of "Looks like TV"

TV looks better

 

[pigeon]

Guardians 2 seems like a weird example considering it's likely the most emotionally hitting movie in the MCU.

Craziest take in this thread. Really? You thought that?

Guardians 2 identified the emotional thread in Guardians 1, pulled it violently out, stuck it right in the camera and yelled "HERE IS THE EMOTIONAL THREAD! FAMILIES! DADS ARE A THING! THE LOVE YOU TAKE IS EQUAL TO THE LOVE YOU MAKE!" while loud emotional music played and a tiny tree creature danced.

That is not how you make a memorable movie.

 

[Shaanyboi]

His point stands to me. Raimi's films had a level of auteur-ship that the current crop of films frankly does not.

His films used the veneer of comics to challenge, question and surprise. There is literally nothing interesting to discuss about these new Marvel movies - there is no debate to be had, nothing to be learned, and nothing to really criticize. Its bland bullshit.

What debate did Raimi's Spider-Man inspire?

Dunno what you're on about, where did I portray those two as being particularly artsy fartsy?

I mean trying to point fingers at Marvel movies for being 'mass market', and then pointing to Burton's Batman (a movie where he really didn't actually have all that much control) which launched one of the biggest marketing blitzes at that point in time? Like, that wasn't mass market?

 

[Davide]

An entire timeline is wiped out. Everyone in the past starts being taken out, and how they weave it back together was pretty damn satisfying

X-Men 1-3 are wiped out and suddenly everything is perfect. Not very satisfying for me at least.

 

[Jumeira]

"by the end they're all mates"

you watch a different movie or something?

Hey buddy, I know we fought and all, but I'm still there for you bro. Just saying. PS I know my boy killed your parents but it's cool, u dig?

 

[cr0w]

TheOfficeThankYou.gif

The people in the MCU who've died have at least stayed dead

Sure wish we could've gotten more Coulson before he got killed off. They could have done so much more with that character.