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[SoundPulse]

Put the whole franchise in cryosleep.

Hey, I remember Samus cant enter the Boys W.C

Samus doesn't get to do much of anything in Other M. All of Adam's objectives that he gives her are basically done by Anthony. Those two accomplished more than she did. Hell, the game should have been about Anthony.

Spoiler

I also didn't like how Samus apparently shrunk in Other M; Anthony's supposed to be about what her height was before, but she's like 5' tall if the ending scenes are to be believed.

 

[Toxi]

In Other M? Its the otaku stuff that Japan tries to do sometimes with there games, with the female characters falling into, if you ever watched Naruto you will understand this, Sakarui/Sasuke character dynamic. Basically, the female character is strong and has power but she religiously follows and adores the 'bad boy' or 'powerful male character.

Other M is a very small sample and not indicative of the Japanese fictional landscape in general. Hell, it's not even indicative of the other Japanese-developed Metroid games.

Other M isn't bad "because Japan".

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Other M is a very small sample and not indicative of the Japanese fictional landscape in general. Hell, it's not even indicative of the other Japanese-developed Metroid games.

Other M isn't bad "because Japan".

No but it's bad, in part, for trying to pander for a specific subset of Japanese gamers. Metroid was never a sales success in Japan and for a Japanese centric company like Nintendo that stings.

 

[Pamplemousse]

It literally did nothing better than the Prime trilogy. I've tried to think of just one thing, but I honestly can't come up with one.

 

[Not75Drops]

Honestly, the whole compromise that lead to not using the nunchuck was really stupid.

Sakamoto: "Let's make a 2.5D game like my previous entries"

Team Ninja: "Nah man, 3D is our specialty, so let's make a 3D game instead!"

Sakamoto: Ok, how about this....a 3D Metroid, but with the control scheme of a 2D game!"

What? It's like Sakamoto just folded to Team Ninja but at the same time, decided to be stubborn. Really though, the 3D aiming while being unable to move would have likely made it into the game regardless, to make using the Wiimote.

 

[L Thammy]

It managed to promise better combat than the Prime series. It didn't manage to actually deliver it (mash d-pad to dodge everything) but hey.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I think Other M did a better job of translating the speed and mobility of Samus from the 2D games to 3D more than Prime did. Prime definitely has a little slower pace than the old games did. Traversing the world in Other M was honestly pretty fun.

I would say this and a better characterization of Samus on top of it. Other M was more interesting to me story-wise. Also, fighting Ridley was way better too.

Prime has it beat in just about everything else.

 

[James Scott]

I liked that it was 3rd person. better for platforming but then they made it a Wii mote game which was a mistake
I think it was on to something translating the original games to 3D but it just didn't work out. Liked the combat tho

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

Samus is one of the most important women in gaming so the story in Other M does bring the whole thing down since they don't do her justice. It's also why Federation Force is a joke and will flop.

If you ignore the story, poor characterization, being beaten over the head with baby metaphors and the garbage relationship between Samus and Adam in Other M, you actually have a GAME better than Super Metroid. Still doesn't touch Metroid Prime 1 or 3 though.

 

[Ushojax]

Other M is a very small sample and not indicative of the Japanese fictional landscape in general. Hell, it's not even indicative of the other Japanese-developed Metroid games.

Other M isn't bad "because Japan".

The flaws in Other M's script are very common in Japanese storytelling and reinforce some cultural issues as well, the script we got could only have been written in Japan.

Other M shows Samus as an utterly pathetic person who would not survive without her male superiors.

 

[L Thammy]

Also, are we allowed to say that Other M's Japanese cover is one of the coolest ones in the series? Especially if you like young Samus' design.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I would say this and a better characterization of Samus on top of it. Other M was more interesting to me story-wise. Also, fighting Ridley was way better too.

Prime has it beat in just about everything else.

You mean, the Ridley fight where he attacks Samus for the 6th or 7th time in her life, she freezes up in PTSD that suddenly appeared despite not appearing before and never appearing again (not even with rotting, zombie Ridley she fights next game in the time line), is then saved by some character that's only appeared in this one game for about 10 minutes. Then Ridley escapes, and he dies off screen, only for Samus to walk by his husk and not even really notice it.

That Ridley fight?

You don't even get to kill Ridley in Other M. You don't even get the privilege to mortally wound Ridley, let alone kill him.

 

[Diffense]

Samus' movement felt great, most of the time, in other M. She feels like a tank in the Prime games because of the first person view. I don't hate other M as much as other people even though I acknowledge its problems with game structure and Samus' characterization. it would probably have been a much better game if Sakamoto had let Team Ninja off the leash and allowed them to go wild, within reason, like what Miyamoto encouraged with Hyrule Warriors. Ninja Samus could have been awesome if they were allowed to go all the way instead of being restricted to 2D and the Wiimote controller. It'd have been a nice spinoff and that's probably what it should have been.

 

[L Thammy]

The flaws in Other M's script are very common in Japanese storytelling and reinforce some cultural issues as well, the script we got could only have been written in Japan.

Other M shows Samus as an utterly pathetic person who would not survive without her male superiors.

I wonder how many people that say this read Japanese novels, watch dramas, or other things outside of anime and video games. I mean, I'm not saying it's not true, it may very well be a widespread problem. I don't know at. But I don't think think that most opinions of Japanese writing are formed from a wholistic look, or even mainstream Japanese media.

 

[Kindekuma]

I dislike Other M's controls, being locked movement wise in first person just feels odd considering how much Samus moves in combat regularly. Well, a LOT of things about Other M bothers me, just don't get me started on the story and character assassination. Morph Ball felt basically useless the whole game up until you get Power Bombs, you had to wait for Adam to approve of weapons instead of naturally finding them, the forced walking sequences and pixel hunting parts. The part that gets me the MOST is the health/missile regeneration by holding the wiimote upwards and waiting for Samus to charge. What the HELL is with that?

Prime series is on a whole other level of technical and gameplay prowess.
It was a fantastic transition from the 2D form of the series into 3D. Other M butchered that.

 

[Toxi]

Also, are we allowed to say that Other M's Japanese cover is one of the coolest ones in the series? Especially if you like young Samus' design.

Totally. It's a creative yet simple design and it looks very distinctive. It's a shame we didn't get it in North America.

 

[-Horizon-]

Also, are we allowed to say that Other M's Japanese cover is one of the coolest ones in the series? Especially if you like young Samus' design.

:O

Why did we not get this in the states?!

 

[Orochinagis]

Also, are we allowed to say that Other M's Japanese cover is one of the coolest ones in the series? Especially if you like young Samus' design.

We never had the chance to play as young samus.

 

[Griss]

It came out more recently...something the Prime games haven't done.

So that's about it.

Yeah.

I'd add that it gave a bunch of nerds something to direct their rage at that wasn't racist and sexist, and after that I've got nothing.

Piece of shit game that should be wiped from history. Still angry.

 

[10k]

Third person view.
Cool finishing moves.

The rest is mediocre.

 

[C.Olimar788]

Literally nothing. About the only positive I can give Other M is that I liked its Speed Booster, but I can't say it did it better than the Prime games since the Prime games did not include the Booster.

Also, are we allowed to say that Other M's Japanese cover is one of the coolest ones in the series? Especially if you like young Samus' design.

That is pretty rad! Even if I'm not at all fond of young Samus in Other M (primarily by proxy rather than by her objective design, I admit).

 

[Vital Tundra]

Third person view.
Cool finishing moves.

The rest is mediocre.

What makes 3rd person better? Id argue Metroid lends itself better in a 1st person view, and as others have said, creates a better way for a player to self-insert themselves.

Other M is a very small sample and not indicative of the Japanese fictional landscape in general. Hell, it's not even indicative of the other Japanese-developed Metroid games.

Other M isn't bad "because Japan".

Right, I would say its bad because of "Japanese Otaku culture" and the like. There are great writers in Japan, but the ones making video games and most manga/anime, aren't those.

 

[RK128]

Other M is a very small sample and not indicative of the Japanese fictional landscape in general. Hell, it's not even indicative of the other Japanese-developed Metroid games.

Other M isn't bad "because Japan".

I love many JRPG's and Japan-produced titles (look at my avatar; Sonic comes from Japan !). Just making a point.

 

[Ninjimbo]

You mean, the Ridley fight where he attacks Samus for the 6th or 7th time in her life, she freezes up in PTSD that suddenly appeared despite not appearing before and never appearing again (not even with rotting, zombie Ridley she fights next game in the time line), is then saved by some character that's only appeared in this one game for about 10 minutes. Then Ridley escapes, and he dies off screen, only for Samus to walk by his husk and not even really notice it.

That Ridley fight?

You don't even get to kill Ridley in Other M. You don't even get the privilege to mortally wound Ridley, let alone kill him.

Yeah that one. I had more fun playing that battle than I did against Ridley in Prime.

 

[Griss]

I'll never understand all of the "It showed Smaus' speed and athleticism" comments.

I started with the original Metroid when it came out on the NES. I was too young to make much progress, but Metroid II was one of the defining games of my early childhood. I've played them all. Now, maybe my memory is faulty, but in Metroid Smaus is a slow, floaty tank. In Metroid 2, she's a slower floaty tank. In Super Metroid, she's a slightly faster floaty tank that gets a speed booster useful in certain situations. Those were the games in the series that came out before Prime, where she is

Spoiler

a slow, floaty tank

.

Fusion and Zero Mission sped her up and tightened the controls, but I still never remember Samus flipping around like a ninja, putting enemies in chokeholds, using bullet time, or any of the other stuff Other M does that's clearly pulled from the 'character action game book of tricks'. She played more like Ryu Hayabusa than Smaus, for fuck's sake. She was nothing like the real Samus.

 

[10k]

What makes 3rd person better? Id argue Metroid lends itself better in a 1st person view, and as others have said, creates a better way for a player to self-insert themselves.


Right, I would say its bad because of "Japanese Otaku culture" and the like. There are great writers in Japan, but the ones making video games and most manga/anime, aren't those.

It's a personal preference. I want to see Samus and her sexy power suit rendered on screen, glowing and dodging and spin jumping.

 

[L Thammy]

I'll never understand all of the "It showed Smaus' speed and athleticism" comments.

I started with the original Metroid when it came out on the NES. I was too young to make much progress, but Metroid II was one of the defining games of my early childhood. I've played them all. Now, maybe my memory is faulty, but in Metroid Smaus is a slow, floaty tank. In Metroid 2, she's a slower floaty tank. In Super Metroid, she's a slightly faster floaty tank that gets a speed booster useful in certain situations. Those were the games in the series that came out before Prime, where she is

Spoiler

a slow, floaty tank

.

Fusion and Zero Mission sped her up and tightened the controls, but I still never remember Samus flipping around like a ninja, putting enemies in chokeholds, using bullet time, or any of the other stuff Other M does that's clearly pulled from the 'character action game book of tricks'. She played more like Ryu Hayabusa than Smaus, for fuck's sake. She was nothing like the real Samus.

Samus spends half of the original Metroid doing leaping somersaults. I think that might be a big part of the "athletic" perception.

Funny that you mention Ryu Hayabusa, by the way, since he's one of the other platforming heroes that jumps like that. Spinning all over the place.

 

[Ninjimbo]

I'll never understand all of the "It showed Smaus' speed and athleticism" comments.

I started with the original Metroid when it came out on the NES. I was too young to make much progress, but Metroid II was one of the defining games of my early childhood. I've played them all. Now, maybe my memory is faulty, but in Metroid Smaus is a slow, floaty tank. In Metroid 2, she's a slower floaty tank. In Super Metroid, she's a slightly faster floaty tank that gets a speed booster useful in certain situations. Those were the games in the series that came out before Prime, where she is

Spoiler

a slow, floaty tank

.

Fusion and Zero Mission sped her up and tightened the controls, but I still never remember Samus flipping around like a ninja, putting enemies in chokeholds, using bullet time, or any of the other stuff Other M does that's clearly pulled from the 'character action game book of tricks'. She played more like Ryu Hayabusa than Smaus, for fuck's sake. She was nothing like the real Samus.

I think when you have a 40 foot vertical leap, that disqualifies you from being labeled a tank.

Seriously though, think about the games for a second. For you to make any sort of progress, you had to be precise in your jumps and shots. To take out any of the bosses especially in games like Super and Zero, you had to string together some difficult leaps to survive long enough to do some damage. They had to make Samus a nimble sort of character for them to pull that off. If you look at it like that, Samus does appear athletic and speedy.

One of the reasons why I can't play the original game is because the controls are so off -- too slippery, too floaty. I need the precision. That's how Samus should be. The Prime games would almost be unplayable for me if it wasn't so expertly crafted in its other areas. The combat and movement is almost a joke.

 

[10k]

What makes 3rd person better? Id argue Metroid lends itself better in a 1st person view, and as others have said, creates a better way for a player to self-insert themselves.


Right, I would say its bad because of "Japanese Otaku culture" and the like. There are great writers in Japan, but the ones making video games and most manga/anime, aren't those.

The self-insert argument doesn't work for me. I always know I'm playing as Master Chief, Samus, Link, etc. And that's fine. I don't want to project myself as the game character. That's what mass effect is for.

 

[Aostia]

Samus agility was way better. Combat system and graphics definition were great. It was worst in pacing, in loneliness, ost and scanning

 

[Htown]

I would say this and a better characterization of Samus on top of it.

More characterization is not the same as better characterization.

Other M was more interesting to me story-wise.

. . . How?

Also, fighting Ridley was way better too.

You don't even get to defeat him. He gets killed offscreen.

 

[Htown]

To take out any of the bosses especially in games like Super and Zero, you had to string together some difficult leaps to survive long enough to do some damage. They had to make Samus a nimble sort of character for them to pull that off. If you look at it like that, Samus does appear athletic and speedy.

But none of that is in Other M. What does it matter if she's "athletic and speedy" when they removed exactly what you pointed out as the reason for her nimbleness?

 

[gafneo]

There was a problem with the 3D map? That's literally the easiest way to display a map of a 3D environment (and not whatever the fuck they tried to do with Other M).
Heck if you were lost for too long you could activate the hint system to tell you where to go if needed.
Of course you never needed that in Other M because they gave you Google Map like tracking system to tell you where to go next.



Ah, it's too bad because MP 1 lost something in the transition I feel.
MP2 is pretty much great but I'd say put GC worked perfectly for MP1.
You're supposed to use the dodge button a lot on MP1 in combat, that may not be ideal on a wiimote.
1 thing I really liked in GC MP games is that it wasn't a game about aiming like in other FP games but about dodging enemy fire.

Maybe it was easy when you played it years ago, but try it now. It's clunky as all hell. You can't tell the top floor from the bottom. Map is zoomed all the way in by default. You have to manually adjust it constantly to see if you need to take a right or left. If there are bottom halfs, the map could have each section in layers. The whole thing is frustrating. The worst I've seen.The hint system is not helpful. You can get lost looking at that orange mess if you try to find a save station.

 

[zma1013]

One of the reasons why I can't play the original game is because the controls are so off -- too slippery, too floaty. I need the precision. That's how Samus should be. The Prime games would almost be unplayable for me if it wasn't so expertly crafted in its other areas. The combat and movement is almost a joke.

Metroid Prime might not give that same feeling of agility other games in the series had but to say the controls aren't precise and are an unplayable joke is a statement I just can't agree with. The controls are tight and responsive and precise even if they don't have you doing ninja flips off walls.

 

[Griss]

Samus spends half of the original Metroid doing leaping somersaults. I think that might be a big part of the "athletic" perception.

Funny that you mention Ryu Hayabusa, by the way, since he's one of the other platforming heroes that jumps like that. Spinning all over the place.

Ultimately her leaping somersaults are just how she jumps in those games - at least until you get the screw attack. In Metroid Prime once you get the double jump she's got good jumping abilities too. Obviously the somersaults aren't a great fit for an FPS, but despite that she does that in MP2 & 3 anyway. That jumping ability was really all she had that was in any way athletic, and like I said it was a real languid, floaty motion anyway.

I think when you have a 40 foot vertical leap, that disqualifies you from being labeled a tank.

Seriously though, think about the games for a second. For you to make any sort of progress, you had to be precise in your jumps and shots. To take out any of the bosses especially in games like Super and Zero, you had to string together some difficult leaps to survive long enough to do some damage. They had to make Samus a nimble sort of character for them to pull that off. If you look at it like that, Samus does appear athletic and speedy.

One of the reasons why I can't play the original game is because the controls are so off -- too slippery, too floaty. I need the precision. That's how Samus should be. The Prime games would almost be unplayable for me if it wasn't so expertly crafted in its other areas. The combat and movement is almost a joke.

You certainly did have to jump around, but part of the reason the boss fights were as difficult as they were was because Samus was so not nimble. I can still remember my rage at trying to navigate the platforms in Kraids boss room.

And the joke is that instead of having her jumping movements be how you avoid attacks in Other M they're related to a 'sensemove' kind of dodge that has no equivalent throughout the entire series.

I think the combat in Metroid Prime is dated as hell and pretty mediocre now. A new Metroid Prime would need a 100% retooled shooting / combat engine. But I'd still stand by the movement. The jumping is particularly well done and pleasing.

 

[KarmaCow]

Maybe it was easy when you played it years ago, but try it now. It's clunky as all hell. You can't tell the top floor from the bottom. Map is zoomed all the way in by default. You have to manually adjust it constantly to see if you need to take a right or left. If there are bottom halfs, the map could have each section in layers. The whole thing is frustrating. The worst I've seen.The hint system is not helpful. You can get lost looking at that orange mess if you try to find a save station.

The map is pretty bad but maybe it's because I've just become so familiar with the map at this point but the world is pretty comprehensible and simple. Even in a place like Magmoor Caverns which is just lava and dark rocks, each section is unique with recognizable landmarks that makes it easier to build a mental map, even more so than the 2D games.

 

[GenG3000]

Other M captured better the feels of 2D Metroid. Prime feels like FPA Zelda honestly. It is an amazing 3D adventure, one of the best, but cannot be compared with the compactness and the smooth action of 2D Metroids.

It is a nice adventure game despite the hate. Short, fancy and replayable. It should have been a new turning point for the series.

 

[Magnet_Man]

It should have been a new turning point for the series.

It was.

Straight down.

 

[Mael]

Maybe it was easy when you played it years ago, but try it now. It's clunky as all hell. You can't tell the top floor from the bottom. Map is zoomed all the way in by default. You have to manually adjust it constantly to see if you need to take a right or left. If there are bottom halfs, the map could have each section in layers. The whole thing is frustrating. The worst I've seen.The hint system is not helpful. You can get lost looking at that orange mess if you try to find a save station.

It's a 3D map.
My copy is a bit far but there's one thing I know about Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 is that the maps are one of the highlights of the games.
It's incredibly efficient and usually distinctive enough that if the game game you an hint with the name of the room you could actually navigate the area from the map alone.
If you have an issue with the layers you only need to rotate the map to make sure the layers don't mess up on screen.
Seriously it's actually useful unlike the shitty mess they call a map in Other M or even the maps you had in Super Metroid.

 

[gafneo]

The map is pretty bad but maybe it's because I've just become so familiar with the map at this point but the world is pretty comprehensible and simple. Even in a place like Magmoor Caverns which is just lava and dark rocks, each section is unique with recognizable landmarks that makes it easier to build a mental map, even more so than the 2D games.

There is nothing wrong with how the maps look themselves. The environments are somewhat better in Prime than M. There are only 2 or 3 possible paths to each section. It becomes a chore when managing the menu when you want to backtrack. when you adjust it to the perfect angle, it doesn't follow the path that you set. Other M lead you to the correct area with no issues. You just had to solve some puzzles to get through a hidden door.

 

[Green Mamba]

Other M's map is worthless. Not only does it look completely different from your minimap, but seriously, look at the large, roughly rectangular room to the top left. Completely misrepresents what the room actually is, as it's actually three different paths across a lava sea that is mostly impassable for most of the game. Other M's map gives you zero context on what the rooms actually are, but I guess for the most part it doesn't matter because Other M's level design is essentially a few linear pathways that sort of crudely intersect with themselves at a few points.

 

[aggienader]

Thread title is making me cringe

 

[JustSomeone]

It killed the metroid series much better than prime

 

[Toxi]

Samus has been a slow, floaty heavyweight in Smash Bros for over a decade and a half.

Retro was just taking tips from Sakurai.

Also, complaints about Samus's mobility in the Prime games are always comparisons with her mobility in the other games, because the "limited" mobility isn't really limiting in the context of the Prime trilogy. There aren't moments in Prime where jumps are awkward because the distance between platforms is designed for your shorter jumps. There aren't moments where the difficulty aiming straight up is a problem because they consciously put almost everything at eye level of whatever platform you're on. The lowered running speed is not much of a problem because the rooms are mostly short and focused on vertical movement just as much as horizontal movement.

That's why despite Samus not jumping as far or running as fast in Prime, it's still a fun game to play: Because the character's mobility is only part of the equation, with the other half being what said mobility is used for in the game.

 

[fredrancour]

It would be cool to explore the idea of alternate perspectives for 3d metroid but I can't really say there's a single thing about game mechanics, art direction, or story that I liked in other m.

 

[Xbro]

You mean, the Ridley fight where he attacks Samus for the 6th or 7th time in her life, she freezes up in PTSD that suddenly appeared despite not appearing before and never appearing again (not even with rotting, zombie Ridley she fights next game in the time line), is then saved by some character that's only appeared in this one game for about 10 minutes. Then Ridley escapes, and he dies off screen, only for Samus to walk by his husk and not even really notice it.

That Ridley fight?

You don't even get to kill Ridley in Other M. You don't even get the privilege to mortally wound Ridley, let alone kill him.

If you consider the manga canon, she had PTSD when she met Ridley before the Zero Mission, but it explicitly said she got over it by the first game.

 

[zma1013]

It's a 3D map.
My copy is a bit far but there's one thing I know about Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 is that the maps are one of the highlights of the games.
It's incredibly efficient and usually distinctive enough that if the game game you an hint with the name of the room you could actually navigate the area from the map alone.
If you have an issue with the layers you only need to rotate the map to make sure the layers don't mess up on screen.
Seriously it's actually useful unlike the shitty mess they call a map in Other M or even the maps you had in Super Metroid.

I agree. It's a 3D map where you just spin around 3D representations of the levels. It's so easy in its simplicity that I'm not sure there's anything that could be done to make it easier to use.

I do know that many people have trouble with visualizing 3D concepts, and I think that may be one of the issues at play with some people that think it's difficult. I can look at any object and mentally rotate that object in my head and see it clearly, one of the reasons I went into engineering and 3D modeling work. Some people just don't seem to be able to grasp visualization like that.

I feel it's similar to how I just don't understand how music is constructed or formed. I just can't translate it in my head for whatever reason.

 

[gafneo]

It's a 3D map.
My copy is a bit far but there's one thing I know about Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2 is that the maps are one of the highlights of the games.
It's incredibly efficient and usually distinctive enough that if the game game you an hint with the name of the room you could actually navigate the area from the map alone.
If you have an issue with the layers you only need to rotate the map to make sure the layers don't mess up on screen.
Seriously it's actually useful unlike the shitty mess they call a map in Other M or even the maps you had in Super Metroid.

Prime maps would never be that clunky to manage these days. It's a very dated interface. We would get something more detailed and fixed like in Assassin's Creed Syndicate.

 

[KevinCow]

Other M is better at being bad. The Prime games weren't very good at that, but Other M excels.

 

[gafneo]

It killed the metroid series much better than prime

Killed? You are pretty diehard obsessed. It was going in the right direction. There are 2 types of Metroid series going on. When there are 15 types of Super Man comic series to choose from, will there be 14 of them killing off the brand if they are not all the same?