It's funny to me in the midst of a lot of affectionate usage of the "in Japanese culture honor and shame are huge parts of it" meme on GAF, the entire Nintendo and Sony situation that happened went along those lines note for note.
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What really happened between Nintendo and Sony?
- Thread starter FalsettoVibe
- Start date
It's funny to me in the midst of a lot of affectionate usage of the "in Japanese culture honor and shame are huge parts of it" meme on GAF, the entire Nintendo and Sony situation that happened went along those lines note for note.
funkystudent
Member
Sony wanted some control over the platform / wanted a cut of royalties for games. (Remember this was back when Nintendo controlled 3rd party software with a iron fist)
Instead of talking them down Nintendo when to Phillips behind their back in secret.
When the Phillips deal became known Sony was pissed.
Sony said "I will make my own console. With Blackjack and hookers"
Instead of talking them down Nintendo when to Phillips behind their back in secret.
When the Phillips deal became known Sony was pissed.
Sony said "I will make my own console. With Blackjack and hookers"
Stallion Dan
Member
I believe the deal was Sony gets the money from CD based games, Nintendo from cartridge, then after leaving it way too long Nintendo chickened out because they figured CD would be the next big thing.
So Sony made the Playstation.
So Sony made the Playstation.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Tripolygon
Banned
This is the truth
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/06/03/business/nintendo-philips-deal-is-a-slap-at-sony.html
Sony announced the deal and a day later Nintendo said what deal?
Theyre not mutually exclusive. Both probably happened.
I would have loved to see a Sony/Nintendo platform though. Still would
Corronchilejano
Member
How? I had never heard something like this.
Apparently Nintendo gave Sony a lot of information on the inner workings of the SNES, but Sony didn't like the cut they were getting in licensing. There's really not much information about what happened (at least, the specifics), so its anyone's guess.
thesurfshop19
Member
But I thought this has to be good and evil, heroes and villains!!
But seriously, yes, both companies advanced their self interests and couldn't make it work. Probably for the best (says an owner of every single home system from both companies).
IAmRandom31
Banned
Wasn't it something like, Nintendo realized in the contract that anything hitting the CD format would be IP controlled by Sony, which meant if they put say Zelda on the CD format the IP would then be controlled by Sony?
They freaked over that information and jumped ship to Panasonic REALLY close to the E3 announcement ( like days ). They also did not tell Sony about this change. Sony decided to continue with the production of the Playstation and just made it a stand-alone console.
And thank god for that.
They freaked over that information and jumped ship to Panasonic REALLY close to the E3 announcement ( like days ). They also did not tell Sony about this change. Sony decided to continue with the production of the Playstation and just made it a stand-alone console.
And thank god for that.
Going by the general narrative here:
First Sony tried to fuck over NIntendo.
Then Nintendo surprise fucked Sony back.
Then Sony Revenge fucked Nintendo.
Yeah, sounds like companies trying to make money, and it lead to competition and better games, I think we all benefited from it. Its also silly to think that their actions then represent their actions now, hell, they even have a deal for Mario movie going on if rumors are true.
First Sony tried to fuck over NIntendo.
Then Nintendo surprise fucked Sony back.
Then Sony Revenge fucked Nintendo.
Yeah, sounds like companies trying to make money, and it lead to competition and better games, I think we all benefited from it. Its also silly to think that their actions then represent their actions now, hell, they even have a deal for Mario movie going on if rumors are true.
The N64 was outsold by the Saturn in Japan. lmao
Right. It's just that Nintendo had a far more public response to the situation than Sony did.
Tripolygon
Banned
False. Company A proposed a deal and during negotiations Company B agreed to said deal. Company B decides I don't like the deal anymore so i'm going to publicly fuck you over without notice that i don't want said deal anymore. Nintendo wanted control of the platform and games and has been notorious for controlling 3rd party software so Sony wanted control over the software that were produced using their CD platform.
akidnamededdy
Banned
They finally managed to defeat the Undying King but when it came time to decide what to do with his Crown of Eternal Rule, Nintendo thought they should use it to rule the world together but Sony wanted to destroy it and let mankind charter its own destiny. They have been bitter enemies ever since.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
This, Sony offered a shitty deal to a company that offer's shitty deals and Nintendo back stabbed them, so Sony bitch slapped them so hard it lasted for decades.
I believe Sony was also involved with the SNES, Nintendo's best console to date and it show's with PlayStation, which I see as the true successor to the SNES.
FalsettoVibe
Member
Sometimes, contracts are made to be broken.
Gunmonkey36
Member
Second hand source(Very good friend of mine worked for a small dev studio for a couple of years).
This was from early last gen. This studio wanted to get a Dev kit for the Wii. This wasn't launch week or anything still plenty of months after launch. Upon calling Nintendo contacts (Studio primarily developed for Nintendo systems btw. Many ds titles) they were told that the Dev kits were on hold for an indefinite time period for anywhere outside Japan. Dev kits would go to Japanese developers first and then they would fill western Dev kits as they came in. If any japanese dev studio asked for one they'd jump queue ahead of western studios. Seems bad but they can have that policy if they want to. Many months later Dev Kit comes in. They hook it up and boot up Dev kit. The demos included did NOT work. This included the basic wiimote demo. Upon calling Nintendo Support they were basically told they were on there own(in stark comparison the 360 Dev kit they had worked flawless upon arrival. Demos works without hiccups and support was always available to help).
Take it with whatever grain of salt you want.
Saturn was successful in Japan. As was the Dreamcast.
Tripolygon
Banned
They agreed to the deal and it was announced by Sony only to find out Nintendo went with Phillips. Sony decided to release the console on their own and Nintendo sued to stop it but lost that is why the console was released in Japan but wasn't successful and was canceled.
akidnamededdy
Banned
The heist went off without a hitch, but Sony sold Nintendo out, ran off with their cut, and left them to be nabbed by the feds. Ten years later, Nintendo is out of the clink and looking for revenge.
It's pretty well documented that Nintendo went out of thier way to embarrass Sony publically when they went back on the agreement they had made.
Iirc Yamauchi decided he the agreement wasn't in his favor enough and went to Phillips instead. This is how we ended up with the beloved Mario and Zelda games on the CDi every one knows and loves.
Led_Zeppelin
Member
I found the video terribly bias. There is no good or bad in business, I doubt that Nintendo or Sony don't know the smaller print of every single contract their sign with other companies, even less the one that could affect the profit distribution on a partnership.
Also there is little to no reliable source on how all this really happen, outside of Game Over I doubt there are well done investigations regarding how the market and economic affected the videogame industry and companies. We are having troubles to actually point out the reason of the success of the Wii and DS (with the exception of some blogs) and that was 7-8 years ago, let alone the shape of the market and industry back in 1993-1996.
Also there is little to no reliable source on how all this really happen, outside of Game Over I doubt there are well done investigations regarding how the market and economic affected the videogame industry and companies. We are having troubles to actually point out the reason of the success of the Wii and DS (with the exception of some blogs) and that was 7-8 years ago, let alone the shape of the market and industry back in 1993-1996.
Corronchilejano
Member
Thank you for sharing. I've never heard something like this, but honestly I've never known anyone who tried to get a Wii dev kit.
This. Nintendo royally fucked up.
Wouldn't there be some real legal consequences behind a broken contract?
This whole thing seems very school yard like.
and i like it
Yamauchi was nothing if not very vocal in his displeasure when things don't go his way. His response to Square working on the Playstation (and I think he might have lumped Enix in there, too) was something else.
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
thank you, what a great morning!
wasnt it supposed to be that nintendo didnt want to change to cd's or something like that according to House? (cant remember but it was a thread last month) then they went to Sega and they got spitted on the other cheek too so they said fuck it and created PS and you know the rest
30yearsofhurt
Member
Nintendo have been infamous for being dicks to developers and publishers. Their dickery was a major reason for the success of the playstation.
Not really? They ended up creating their own competition who outsold them for 2 generations... amd then bled every penny those two consoles ever made them with their 3rd effort in the same generation that Nintendo made more money than god.
If it weren't for the PS2, Nintendo wouldn't have made the Wii. And the Wii made Nintendo more money than they've ever made.
Ultimately, what happened is that Nintendo's eventual tumble from the top happened sooner. They were already fighting fiercely with Sega (although they sure did get an awful lot of help from Sega themselves to win that battle), which started the timer. If it wasn't the Playstation, it was going to be something else.
30yearsofhurt
Member
Man such spin. Delusion is a tributary of Denial.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Sony was certain that Nintendo was dead. There was no way anybody could have survived that explosion.
And yet, this masked villain standing in front of Sony now was somehow...familiar. It knew all of Sony's moves, knew about Sony's bad shoulder.
Sony's voice trembled. "...N-Nintendo?"
The enemy stood there, unflinching, for what seemed like hours. Finally it reached up, undid the clasps behind its neck, and let the mask fall to the floor.
"It's a-me!"
And yet, this masked villain standing in front of Sony now was somehow...familiar. It knew all of Sony's moves, knew about Sony's bad shoulder.
Sony's voice trembled. "...N-Nintendo?"
The enemy stood there, unflinching, for what seemed like hours. Finally it reached up, undid the clasps behind its neck, and let the mask fall to the floor.
"It's a-me!"
Grow up.
Pretty much. No one wears the crown forever. Sony learned that last gen.
I think both companies were at fault. Sony for trying to pull a fast one on Nintendo with the contract language and Nintendo for going scorched earth after that.
I think it's legit that Nintendo really didn't dig into the details of the contract with Sony, because they've been super paranoid about all their deals ever since then.
I think it's legit that Nintendo really didn't dig into the details of the contract with Sony, because they've been super paranoid about all their deals ever since then.
GoldenCrow
Member
Not watched the video due to the length and doing work but I always thought it was this:
Ken Kutaragi secretly approached Nintendo to create the audio chip for the SNES. Philips and Sony created a new CD format, Nintendo liked it and set up a deal with Sony to create the SNES-CD as well as a Sony brand console using the same tech due to their relationship with Ken. For some reason Nintendo didn't read the contract until Sony had announced the Play Station at CES, essentially Sony had total control of the CD format and the content, understandably Nintendo didn't like this as it would have turned them into a second party developer on the format and rather than announcing the Sony-Nintendo partnership announced a Phillips-Nintendo where practically the same deal applied but Nintendo took the role of Sony. Sony wanted to work with Sega but they laughed them out of the door. Nintendo filed court case after court case to try stop them from using the tech, eventually Sony sacked of the SNES elements and turned Play Station into PlayStation and kicking Nintendo out of the equation and released the console we know of now.
Ken Kutaragi secretly approached Nintendo to create the audio chip for the SNES. Philips and Sony created a new CD format, Nintendo liked it and set up a deal with Sony to create the SNES-CD as well as a Sony brand console using the same tech due to their relationship with Ken. For some reason Nintendo didn't read the contract until Sony had announced the Play Station at CES, essentially Sony had total control of the CD format and the content, understandably Nintendo didn't like this as it would have turned them into a second party developer on the format and rather than announcing the Sony-Nintendo partnership announced a Phillips-Nintendo where practically the same deal applied but Nintendo took the role of Sony. Sony wanted to work with Sega but they laughed them out of the door. Nintendo filed court case after court case to try stop them from using the tech, eventually Sony sacked of the SNES elements and turned Play Station into PlayStation and kicking Nintendo out of the equation and released the console we know of now.
Not spin. That's what happen. The PS3 cost Sony all the money they made on the PS1 and PS2. I thought this was pretty much accepted. A $600 console and the backlash that generates will do that. It was only at the end they started to recover from that and now with the PS4 they're still likely recovering. That's not to get into the financial issues Sony as a whole is facing. Wii and the DS made Nintendo so much money that that they can take losses for decades and not have to fold. That war chest is real.
Nintendo's response to Sony's power play (taking ownership of copyright or IP of games made on the joint system), which has always been the constant over the years in this story, was wrong no doubt. That caused them more problems they could have ever realized. It makes one wonder though if Sony didn't expect it but used Nintendo to get the creation of whatever product they were making off the ground. Poison the deal so badly that they would leave but Sony would reap the reward of the technology research, etc.
Looking at these threads, people like to view their favourite company as a person doing good (or bad) things, but companies just do not work like that most of the time. Even when they present themselves as being personal, that is often part of the image they aim for in their business strategy.
I have a realy hard time believing Nintendo and Sony did not have a business plan thought out before the product reached a state worthy of presentation to the market. Thus, I do not believe it is as simple as Sony suddenly demanding that cut out of the blue. If they truly had not decided on cuts and legalities surrounding their ip's in an early stage, then that seems quite amateurish to me. How the money will be divided and who owns what is not something you skip when making plans with another company, seriously.
So a question to you history-GAF, was there any event or similar product on the market to possibly make one of the companies reconsider their plans around that time? I know there were already disc-based consoles around then, maybe the bad market position and major technical caveats of those had an impact? Or maybe changes in costs of certain production processes had an influence?
I have a realy hard time believing Nintendo and Sony did not have a business plan thought out before the product reached a state worthy of presentation to the market. Thus, I do not believe it is as simple as Sony suddenly demanding that cut out of the blue. If they truly had not decided on cuts and legalities surrounding their ip's in an early stage, then that seems quite amateurish to me. How the money will be divided and who owns what is not something you skip when making plans with another company, seriously.
So a question to you history-GAF, was there any event or similar product on the market to possibly make one of the companies reconsider their plans around that time? I know there were already disc-based consoles around then, maybe the bad market position and major technical caveats of those had an impact? Or maybe changes in costs of certain production processes had an influence?
Rodolink
Member
We had our game on Wii and had no problems with our relation to Nintendo, everything went smooth, the only problems we had was with Unity3D barely giving us support for the Wii version.
DeadManWalking
Member
Lets remember awesome mega 64 video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rSLInBkY9I
Doesn't matter if it was a "bad deal" for them. Nintendo negociated that deal, so if it was bad it was their fault in the first place.
You just don't try to then screw your "partner" publicly like they did. For once, Karma worked out alright (at least during that gen and the next).
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I still can't understand how people blame Sony. They made a proposal and Nintendo accepted, if Nintendo weren't happy, why accept?
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