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What was wrong with Metroid Prime 2: Echoes?

I first played through it and found it to be the least enjoyable. I found some aspects to be tedious and down right boring. However I went back and played it with MP Trilogy for Wii and I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed it to the point that I'd put all three of them on the same level they all have different flavors but are all incredible in their own way. Nintendo/Retro please make MP Trilogy HD throw in some more bonus content like more artwork or something and call it a day.
 
Hard to put my finger on it... but I simply didn't enjoy it as much as the first one. I couldn't bring myself to finish it.

Thinking about it made me realize how great the first game actually was... I now feel it was one of the greatest games ever made.
 
I loved MP2, I remember everyone complaining about its difficulty back then and was surprised that I didn't find it nowhere near hard when I played it.

Oh, you know what was wrong with MP2?
This, and it's the only thing really
I still love MP1 more though
 
MAJOR METROID PRIME 2 BOSS SPOILERS IN THIS POST
i agree with those that say it starts off really blandly. the dark world stuff was fine, but really the biggest issue is that it's a sequel, so that sense of awe and amazement of how great metroid translated to 3D and FP wasn't there.

oh and mother FUCK the quadraxis/boost guardian boss battle
Quadraxis is amazing. It's my favorite Metroid battle of all time.

  • Quadraxis is a fifty foot tall robot. That's already a point in its favor. It's a huge improvement over the worms and giant mosquito before it. It helps that canny players will recognize that the enormous robot parts in Sanctuary Temple were foreshadowing.
  • You take the robot apart in a way that makes sense. Feet creating shockwaves? Blast them to stop them. Legs holding up the robot? Take out the knees! Body starts shielding the head? Take out the shield signal. Head is now exposed? Blast the head! And no part feels too long or overstays its welcome, unlike some other multipart bosses.
  • The music is awesome. You've got ominous clangs and beats, a constant buzzing, an electronic choir screaming in the background, an eerily organic wail... It's truly the theme that embodies the horrors of technology.
  • You use all your power-ups in ways that make sense. Jump to avoid the shockwaves, boost to avoid the Annihilator Beam lock-on, use your Echo Visor to locate the source of the signal, use the legs to reach the head with the Spider Ball and Boost Ball...
  • You get the motherfucking Annihilator Beam.
 
I always have to laugh at when people criticize this about MP3. If they would have replaced an elevator scene with your ship flying no one would have complained or questioned if it was a single planet. Tallon IV was a less cohesive planet than all of MP3's environments, yet no one complains about it not being a really believable planet.
Well, I see where you're coming from.

But for me it's less about the cohesiveness of Tallon IV and more that it was a singular location. Something about traveling to multiple planets just seems very un-Metroid like.

I will agree that Tallon IV makes no sense and I won't really defend it.

Actually, looking at these "issues" with MP1 and MP3 makes me appreciate Echoes more. I mean, yeah, Aether has a hub structure but in general it feels very organic and cohesive in comparison to some of the other settings in Metroid games.
 
For me it was the constant back and forth between worlds. Metroid is a game of backtracking sure, but the constant need to move between worlds really wore me down. I also found the dark world very bland and tedious.

This made it feel like you were backtracking 4x as much. Add in that you not only had to remember to go check that super missile door or super bomb door you couldn't reach initially, but then you had to remember that the dark world had a bomb passage that led up to an area requiring the gravity hook or whatever. It just became kind of a slog to work through after awhile if you were trying to find everything.

Combined with my inability to kill Emperor Ing... yeah, I never did finish it, even after all that slogging. :\
 
The problem was the Portals. In Metroid Prime 1, you could actually NOT backtrack and strategically move from point to point in the game, crossing over old areas and creating new, logical shortcuts.

Prime 2 takes this same concept, and adds in the idea of running to the next portal as the logical choice, when it isn't always. Not to mention, Prime 2 expects you to literally backtrack to the Temple Grounds every time you get a new upgrade. Not fun. Not logical.

Good game? Yes. I just played through all 3 games with 75% or higher complete these last couple weeks. I would rank them 1 > 3 = 2.

Oh, and you didn't use the weapons in Prime 2 because you were playing too conservative. Using a Sunburst to kill Dark Pirates was awesome.
 
I also feel it needs to be mentioned that Metroid Prime 2 has by far the best Metroid soundtrack of all time. It's the one Metroid soundtrack that feels completely cohesive and really helps Aether feel like one world. I feel it's Kenji Yamamoto's masterpiece.

Some of my favorite original tracks...


There are also wonderful remixes of Super Metroid's lower Brinstar and Metroid Prime's Space Pirate battle theme.
 
It's the same old story when discussing Metroid Prime 2 - either you thought the dark world was bland and tedious or you didn't, and that determines where you put the game in the trilogy. Judging from this thread, it's a roughly 50/50 split.

Unfortunately, I'm firmly in the 'bland and tedious' camp. What I love about Metroid is the exploration. Every new room is some gorgeous architecture full of interesting stuff to see. In MP2, almost half the rooms are just clones of stuff you've already seen, but painted a bland purple. I didn't enjoy that.

Not only that, but the dark world falls between two stools. Had it been actually dark (as in, a lack of light) and super-dangerous, then short spells in there could have been tense and fun. But it's not dark, and it's only dangerous in the very start of the game. Once you get the Dark Suit any fear of the place is gone forever.

On the other hand, had it been another interesting interconnected world to explore that could have been amazing too. But it's not, it's small areas of rooms that are dull purple versions of the main map with very little interesting to see and that aren't really interconnected.

I must also be that one guy who doesn't entirely love Sanctuary Fortress. It bleeds into my other problem with MP2 - the setting / story. We're told that the Ing have overrun this world, that there was this huge war (which we see no real evidence of). The Ing also look a certain way, visually. But then you get to their base and there are essentially none of the buggers there and these black slimy monsters live in... a Tron set?!? I couldn't buy it as real, I really couldn't. It was a magnificent level, eye-meltingly gorgeous, but it was a 'level', not a real place.

On the other hand, I loved the hub world, Agon Wastes and Torvus Bog. Loved the light world parts of those places. The highs of MP2 are actually higher than MP1, and the boss fights are far, far better.

It's still a magnificent game, a 9.5/10 at least. But MP1->MP3->MP2.
 
The difficulty curve in the game was skewed for me. Some minibosses were much harder than others (boost and spider guardian come to mind). Sanctuary Fortress was actually my favorite location and has one of my favorite bosses in all prime games. To me, Echoes is the more memorable prime game.
 
MAJOR METROID PRIME 2 BOSS SPOILERS IN THIS POST

Quadraxis is amazing. It's my favorite Metroid battle of all time.

  • Quadraxis is a fifty foot tall robot. That's already a point in its favor. It's a huge improvement over the worms and giant mosquito before it. It helps that canny players will recognize that the enormous robot parts in Sanctuary Temple were foreshadowing.
  • You take the robot apart in a way that makes sense. Feet creating shockwaves? Blast them to stop them. Legs holding up the robot? Take out the knees! Body starts shielding the head? Take out the shield signal. Head is now exposed? Blast the head! And no part feels too long or overstays its welcome, unlike some other multipart bosses.
  • The music is awesome. You've got ominous clangs and beats, a constant buzzing, an electronic choir screaming in the background, an eerily organic wail... It's truly the theme that embodies the horrors of technology.
  • You use all your power-ups in ways that make sense. Jump to avoid the shockwaves, boost to avoid the Annihilator Beam lock-on, use your Echo Visor to locate the source of the signal, use the legs to reach the head with the Spider Ball and Boost Ball...
  • You get the motherfucking Annihilator Beam.

it's a cool battle. i guess i was more referring to the boost guardian. but i hated all the boss battles in the dark world due to power drainage
 
The Dark World sections were visually uninteresting and generally not that fun to play.

And that key quest near the end was so god damn tedious.
 
MAJOR METROID PRIME 2 BOSS SPOILERS IN THIS POST

Quadraxis is amazing. It's my favorite Metroid battle of all time.

  • Quadraxis is a fifty foot tall robot. That's already a point in its favor. It's a huge improvement over the worms and giant mosquito before it. It helps that canny players will recognize that the enormous robot parts in Sanctuary Temple were foreshadowing.
  • You take the robot apart in a way that makes sense. Feet creating shockwaves? Blast them to stop them. Legs holding up the robot? Take out the knees! Body starts shielding the head? Take out the shield signal. Head is now exposed? Blast the head! And no part feels too long or overstays its welcome, unlike some other multipart bosses.
  • The music is awesome. You've got ominous clangs and beats, a constant buzzing, an electronic choir screaming in the background, an eerily organic wail... It's truly the theme that embodies the horrors of technology.
  • You use all your power-ups in ways that make sense. Jump to avoid the shockwaves, boost to avoid the Annihilator Beam lock-on, use your Echo Visor to locate the source of the signal, use the legs to reach the head with the Spider Ball and Boost Ball...
    [*]You get the motherfucking Annihilator Beam.

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The Annihilator beam is one of my favorite weapons in the Metroid series and is such a hilariously overpowered thing to think about when applying real life logic to it.
 
One thing that really soured me on the game was the beginning when your energy tanks are low and you have to contend with the Dark World sapping your life plus enemies. Sitting in a light section slowly regenerating your health is kind of lame.

The backtracking got easier as you progressed further but it is a bit of a colour palette swap at times.
 
I played the first and second for the first time at the beginning of this year and I thought they were both equally amazing. The only thing I disliked about both was finding the artifacts/sky keys. Other than those things, the level design, puzzles, atmosphere, etc were all spot on and they're both two of my favorite games ever.

EDIT: Also, Sanctuary Fortress is one of my favorite game locations ever and I loved the soundtrack with Torvus Bog in particular having great music.
 
The Sun Burst is also fucking awful and the Dark Burst isn't much better, though the Sonic Boom is sweet as hell.

Dude, Darkburst was awesome! It was basically a black hole gun, and it was immensely satisfying to see the space pirates in particular get sucked into oblivion. Sunburst was lame though I'll agree.

You very much should, Corruption is great! None of its bosses touch the awesome complexity of the ones in Echoes, but there is a lot of fun to be had with it. SkyTown is incredible, and the location after that...to die for.

Corruption had some awesome bosses... And more complex ones as well. The hunter battles were WAY more intricate and involved versions of the Dark Samus battles in Echoes (ie battles with a foe your size that rely on arcadey action and not targeting a weak point or solving some sort of puzzle to beat.)
 
That was my biggest problem with the game, I never really did use the light/dark beam aside from opening up doors. Occasionally I did go through an entire area going through every ammo I had but I didn't save it. Shame, i imagine I would have enjoyed the game that much more if I wasn't afraid of using my ammo.

Hah, glad I wasn't the only one! I actually played through Prime 1 last year and used the special missile attacks for pretty much the first time ever, and it was a lot more fun. So I'm really looking forward to giving this another try with my newfound abilities.
 
For me it was the constant back and forth between worlds. Metroid is a game of backtracking sure, but the constant need to move between worlds really wore me down. I also found the dark world very bland and tedious.
Bland and tedious dark world, yes. Very much so. Moving in between those light pockets to get your energy levels back up. Rest of the game was top notch.
 
MP2 is my favorite Metroid game. I remember the beginning being a little too slow and the colors being too brown. Besides from that, the game is flawless.
 
I love Metroid Prime 2 for how fucking empowering it is. Because you start out so incredibly frail, the game is that much more satisfying when you get the light suit and you can go wherever the hell you want in the dark world. It's a difficult game, but it's so rewarding feeling like you've come so far. No other game has nailed that feeling of powered up and trampling down barriers that used to stop you in your tracks.
 
The key hunt at the end was complete crap.

The Dark World concept had potential, but was mainly just used as a way to recycle level design. Hence why they were able to get away with only 3 main areas minus the over world. And the health draining thing did nothing but limit exploration.

And Ing Emperor, while a solid boss, was nothing compared to Metroid Prime in the first game.

The atmosphere wasn't on par with the first game either. Nothing compared to stepping into Phendrana Drifts for the first time. Not enough color in general to be honest.

The other bosses were great though (dat Quadraxis) and I liked the (slightly) increased difficulty. Having the Screw Attack was neat too. But overall, Prime 1 is better.

Echoes is definitely better than Corruption though. By a country mile.
 
I love Metroid Prime 2 for how fucking empowering it is. Because you start out so incredibly frail, the game is that much more satisfying when you get the light suit and you can go wherever the hell you want in the dark world. It's a difficult game, but it's so rewarding feeling like you've come so far. No other game has nailed that feeling of powered up and trampling down barriers that used to stop you in your tracks.

I think the Metroid series in general is pretty good at this. I actually have to give it to the original Metroid though. You feel like such a weakling in the beginning but as you get more equipment you really start to believe you can overcome it all. And then 3/4 of the way through the game you finally get the screw attack and you almost feel invincible, able to plow through enemies just by jumping into them. Such a good feeling!
 
A lot of the things people tend to dislike about MP2 are things I like about it
(quite a bit more than the first Prime in fact).

For one, the atmosphere is a lot more faithful to the previous Metroids: Desolate, foreboding
and very alien. Yes, Phendrana was very pretty, but (if it hadn't been infested with monsters) it would
have seemed like a nice place to have a picnic. And the lava level was just another lava level.
And in general, while there might have been less variety between the areas, they at least felt
like they were on the same planet, instead of being just a collection of tropey videogame levels.

And no, I'm not talking about the Dark World, which was obviously just there to lengthen a game
with a relatively short development cycle.

And yes Quadraxis is easily the best boss fight in the Prime series.
 
For me it was the constant back and forth between worlds. Metroid is a game of backtracking sure, but the constant need to move between worlds really wore me down. I also found the dark world very bland and tedious.
There were also times as I recall that you could get locked into rooms and had to kill all the enemies before moving forward. I'm sure no one likes these kinds of speed bumps regardless of their position on backtracking and transportation in games.
 
A lot of the things people tend to dislike about MP2 are things I like about it
(quite a bit more than the first Prime in fact).

For one, the atmosphere is a lot more faithful to the previous Metroids: Desolate, foreboding
and very alien. Yes, Phendrana was very pretty, but (if it hadn't been infested with monsters) it would
have seemed like a nice place to have a picnic. And the lava level was just another lava level.
And in general, while there might have been less variety between the areas, they at least felt
like they were on the same planet, instead of being just a collection of tropey videogame levels.

And no, I'm not talking about the Dark World, which was obviously just there to lengthen a game
with a relatively short development cycle.

And yes Quadraxis is easily the best boss fight in the Prime series.

Yeah, in retrospect, I think Magmoor Caverns and Phazon Mines were both really dull looking areas. I wish the Phazon Crater or whatever it was called was a full area instead of only housing the last boss fight. Sanctuary Fortress was amazing and even Torvus Bog was more interesting than those two Metroid Prime 1 areas.
 
For me it was the constant back and forth between worlds. Metroid is a game of backtracking sure, but the constant need to move between worlds really wore me down. I also found the dark world very bland and tedious.

same reason I never finished it, too much back and forth, and the damn light bubble things in the dark world. Way too tedious and repetitive.
 
A lot of people say Phendrana is the best example of a new world. But Sanctuary Fortress topped it and Skytown Elysia was better than both.

Also Echoes has the Rezbit. Fucking panic attack when the suit is hacked, a relief when the words reboot appear on screen.

But then I remember the surprise/shock was the same when the first Chozo Ghost appeared in the first Metroid Prime.
 
The cutscenes were mostly garbage, but other than I'd say nothing. I thought dark samus should have been more imposing, but maybe that's just me.
 
I loved the first and third Prime games, but didn't finish the second. Stopped at the spider ball boss.

I hated the dark world and going back and forth, waiting in light to heal and it was just too hard for me.
 
I'm partway through my first Echoes run in the Trilogy version, and I'm enjoying it. I don't have much to say except that standing around in the bits that regen your health slows the game right down, and I think it suffers for it. It doesn't slow things down, it brings it to a standstill.

Something I've found makes the combat better is disabling free aiming while locked on. It wasn't that great when I had that enabled for all of 1 and the beginning of 2, and it feels a lot better having it be more like the GameCube version (I assume that's what it's like).
 
Aside from the portal cutscenes being too long and the game occasionally getting up its own ass a bit in terms of difficulty (some of those sky temple keys, ugh), not much at all. Game is pretty masterful the vast majority of the time.
 
Great game. The light/dark world mechanic was masterfully crafted and fit the series' atmosphere really well. It allowed for puzzles and enemy encounters that were immensely challenging and satisfying. I may even prefer Echoes over the original Prime.
 
Far too heavy on backtracking, then it had the altered worlds that while technically different just felt like more backtracking.

Waiting to heal sucked.
 
It was a great game, it's just that the setting was relentlessly dreary. Dark Aether's atmosphere drained Samus' energy and by extension, the player's energy. The cartoony Zero Suit Samus didn't really jibe with the setting, either.
 
The Dark World was the problem. Having to sit around inside the protected zones for a few minutes to recharge your health so often became annoying very quickly. Things got a lot better once you got the Dark Suit, but I would have rathered the original Dark World affected you as it does with the Dark Suit, and that the Dark Suit act like the Light Suit.

Dark World also made the main bosses too easy because you could always just sit inside the protected zone and take hardly any damage. One of the reasons Quadraxis is so great is because there are no protected zones, but this also works against the fight since you're technically on a time limit to win.

There's also the world feeling a lot more disconnected in MP2 when compared to MP1. Each region felt very much estranged from the previous one, and you only had to ever return to a previous area once after leaving to pick up a new weapon. In MP1, you were running all over the place constantly and never knew where you might have to go next.

Oh, and MP2 had the worst key hunt, since it forced you to wait until you got the Light Suit to get the majority of the keys.
 
I am playing Prime 2 currently for the first time and the switching between worlds is kinda confusing and annoying... Especially, because I had not much time to play in the last weeks and so I am kinda lost... Planning to play it again this weekend, I hope, I find in again.
 
Prime 2 is awesome. My only issue with it is that I don't think the Dark World added anything to it other than atmosphere. The Dark World was jarring and unforgiving, it made you dread going there and want to get out as soon as possible. In that sense, it worked.

Game play-wise, though, I think it made the game too unnecessarily complex. They were clearly going for a Link To The Past-style design. It works in LTTP because they made it fun to find creative ways to jump between worlds. Another game that does this pretty well is Castlevania:Harmony of Dissonance, where you explore the same castle multiple times in different dimensions. In Echoes, though, you only switch worlds through gates and they are very easy to find, for the most part. It doesn't hit that sweet spot from LTTP or HoD where you're thinking of one world in multiple dimensions.

Still, great game with a awesome map, weapons, atmosphere, and difficulty. Of the three, this was the one I felt the most satisfaction when I finally beat it.
Damn you Dark Samus.
 
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