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What went wrong with Playstation All Stars?

The "it's difficult to make the characters fit because they come from such different types of games" is such horseshit. Marvel vs Capcom 3? Smash 4? How did they do it?

-Mutsukki- said:
and it's not because of Sony's diverse styles, but because it feels like they just ripped all the models straight from their games, a la Marvel vs Capcom 2 (but even MVC had more consistency).

I hate it
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You're thinking of Capcom Fighting Evolution.

Marvel 2 is consistent with everyone but Morgan because all of the characters are from the Capcom versus games.

Card Boy said:
Still in Early Access. We will see once it full comes out. Gets 100 concurrent players average daily but that is sure to go up when it fully releases and gets more word of mouth.
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It's STILL in early access?
 
Supers being the only way to finish off opponents was a bad idea, period. It just limits the gameplay flow so much, and ultimately makes the game come across as very simple. On the other hand the devs gave it a strangely complex combo system, so you have a game that isn't particularly easy to learn but still feels shallow.

The stage combinations were also a turn-off. Conceptually it's kind of neat to have Parappa suddenly transition to Resistance, I get what they were going for, but in practice it's jarring and ugly. I'm not sure if it ever could have worked, but what they delivered is mostly unpleasant.

I don't think the cast is nearly the problem many people suggest. There's a great diversity in available playstyles, and while a comparison to modern Smash hurts, the cast size by normal fighting game standards is reasonably large; it's certainly enough to create a big variety of match-ups. Nostalgia is hard to debate, but I'll personally take Polygon Man over Crash Bandicoot (which from what I can tell back in the day sold roughly similar numbers as many other characters actually in the game)...

I honestly enjoyed the limited time I spent with the game, but the KO system felt so repetitive I couldn't muster up the interest to really dive into it.
 
I can't believe Smash got Cloud and Ryu while PS All Stars couldn't.

perhaps it's understandable considering the difference in development teams, I felt Sony should've put much more effort in making this succeed. Wasn't ND the original intended developers? it kinda felt Sony expected a instant success just because it was a mascot fighter.
 
Nuu said:
You're thinking of Capcom Fighting Evolution.

Marvel 2 is consistent with everyone but Morgan because all of the characters are from the Capcom versus games.
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They're still ripped straight out of their original games though. But yeah, I do agree that MVC2 manages to be surprisingly consistent
 
It was missing loads of characters that you would associate with Sony (Snake, Crash, Spyro, Cloud etc.). The gameplay copied the Smash forumla which is fine I guess but then the fundamental changes they did make (building up supers & no stage knockouts) made the game less fun to play. The UI looked terrible and the game was missing a lot of the nostalgic touches that people enjoy in Smash games.

If Sony were going to make another one I'd rather they didn't try to copy Smash. I think with the sort of characters Sony have this game would work a lot better if it was an arena deathmatch based third person game.
 
First off, let me preface this by saying I did really enjoy the game for the most part.

The problems for me were:

- The roster. I mean, I have less of a problem with it than most people and can accept why Crash/Spyro etc. didn't make it in, but it's still missing some glaring choices like Lightning (or any kind of Final Fantasy rep) and anyone from Resident Evil. I mean, they freaking negotiated with Capcom for Dante...

- The story. I don't understand how they made such a balls of it with just static scenes that basically said nothing. For so many franchises that came from story-heavy backgrounds, it was just laughable there was so little here.

- Content and presentation in general. There were far too few modes on offer here. Plus, like people say, the menus smacked of just being cheaply thrown together.

Still, I'm very happy this game exists.
 
It wasn't bad but everyone compared it to SMB and also it just wasn't as good, so it never had a chance really. I had a blast playing it for what it was though and it had potential, with some improvements, if it ever got a sequel.
 
It had horrible design (these menus, man), they were not able to mix all the different franchises together and make it look and feel right, it played awfully and the point system was pretty stupid to begin with.

Those are my reasons for not liking the game.
 
The roster, menus and single player modes all needed to be better, but I loved that game so much. Was regularly playing online - really wish they'd make a sequel, or at the least port it to PS4.

Fun fact: Naughty Dog were approached about it first, I've always wondered what could have been.
 
It doesn't seem to be well conceived. And the lack of support to fix the gameplay meant a death sentence for the game. Sony should've tried launching it as free-to-play game.
 
CoconutTank said:
Uh... is that how matches vs. Kat usually go? That seemed really rough. Even absent of either player's skill level, and even if it seems to take awhile to get to level 3, being able to score 2 kills in a row with a level 3 super seems pretty awful to deal with, especially if the match ends on 3 kills.
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Kat happens to be a broken/banned character IIRC but she is not the only character that is able to get multiple kills on their level 3.
 
Evilisk said:
I know exactly what you're talking about and just. Fucking. No.

The hazard toggle was one of the few good things PSBR did, if you got a problem with Sakurai not implementing it in Smash, then go and bitch about it to Sakurai.

Hell, I'm sure if there's enough demand it'd happen with the inevitable Smash 4 Switch port, Sakurai is pretty in tune with Smash fans and he did already add Omega Mode as consideration for (Japanese) Smash palyers

But don't go and try start hating this game for something like this. It's petty as hell and the game already gets a lot of (justified) hate for the things it did wrong. There's no need to start hating it for what it did right as well
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Uhhh

My post is blatantly explicit that I'm criticizing Sakurai for his decision lol. I was mocking PSASBR as a pretty poor game that wasted a good mechanic that could have been used in Smash were it not for Sakurai's weirdness.
 
A Link to the Past said:
Uhhh

My post is blatantly explicit that I'm criticizing Sakurai for his decision lol. I was mocking PSASBR as a pretty poor game that wasted a good mechanic that could have been used in Smash were it not for Sakurai's weirdness.
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It does not sound like you're criticizing Sakurai at all in your original post

And I stand by my original point. Rather than blaming PSBR for Smash 4 not having the mechanic, how about drumming up some noise so that hopefully Sakurai includes the option for the next port/game?
 
It was completely lacking in artistic and visual polish

It actually played quite well, and would have been even more fun without the super system

But the problem was it felt like a good mod rather than a AAA game. It was made by fighting game devs who really didn't bring the consideration into bringing he presentation up to a respectable level

What we got was a decent playing game that turned off people from the word go because of the below average presentation. Everything from visuals to menus were incohesive and ugly
 
The super system was just not very fun.

And Smash getting Cloud and Ryu while this did not speaks volumes really. And Dante over, say, Jill Valentine? No Spyro?
 
The roster was shit and felt like more of a marketing exercise than something that speaks to PlayStation fans. The inclusion of nonsense like Big Daddy, DmC Dante and the dude from Dead Space in a game supposedly celebrating PlayStation speaks volumes.

The production values, especially the UI and music were absolutely atrocious. Showed a complete lack of effort and I'm surprised they even let the game be released in such a state. It was overall a very low quality product, not something that fans should expect from PlayStation's answer to Smash, especially when Smash itself is the epitome of quality content and production values.
 
Evilisk said:
Kat happens to be a broken/banned character IIRC but she is not the only character that is able to get multiple kills on their level 3.
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Hmmm... are those other level 3 supers also transformations that give OHKOs?

I get that level 3 supers need to be way powerful to make them worthwhile, since one could've landed 3 kills earlier with level 1 supers from that amount of meter. But the certainty of getting multiple kills that way doesn't sit well with me. It reminds me of zero-to-death combos in MvC games, and also gold-fishing decks in MtG. It basically trivializes the interaction between the players.

Edit: And I'm sorry to dogpile on the point that others have made, but yeah I also think the way supers work in PASBR is too binary. Supers in other fighting games tend to be used at the end of a combo to finish an opponent, but that's not their only use, and at least they aren't the only way to win a match. In USF4, you probably won't do too well with Ryu if you can't reliably combo into Metsu Hadoken, but you can still win with other attacks.
 
This game was so shit. I think I got it on PS+ and still feel robbed.

Seriously though, the gameplay is awful, super system is a stupid idea. The UI looks like somethig the unpaid intern made at 3am. The art style doesn't work with the different characters.

The actual characters included are mediocre at best. That famous PS mascot Big Daddy. Hilarious that this game got the shit scrapped from the bottom of the barrel for characters while Smash 4 got Cloud.

I wouldn't be adverse to Sony trying this again, they just need to actually put some effort in this time.
 
Robin64 said:
The super system was just not very fun.

And Smash getting Cloud and Ryu while this did not speaks volumes really. And Dante over, say, Jill Valentine? No Spyro?
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I associate Street Fighter/Ryu more with Nintendo than Sony. Cloud though, at the point Sakurai was just straight trolling.
 
Nothing really went into it other than the idea of bringing PS characters together in which case it felt like a cash grab. Presentation and choice of characters was abysmal. Big Daddy, nu Dante??? It felt like a kick in the teeth for PS fans.
 
DUMB fighting system of having only specials count as kills. Seriously, you could have done a MK/Streetfighter style game or even a smash style. But that style that was done was just so bland.
 
CoconutTank said:
Hmmm... are those other level 3 supers also transformations that give OHKOs?

I get that level 3 supers need to be way powerful to make them worthwhile, since one could've landed 3 kills earlier with level 1 supers from that amount of meter. But the certainty of getting multiple kills that way doesn't sit well with me. It reminds me of zero-to-death combos in MvC games, and also gold-fishing decks in MtG. It basically trivializes the interaction between the players.
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Yep. Kat, Jak, Raiden, Kratos, and Issac all have transformation level 3 specials that give them more mobility and the ability to just swing (or in Jak & Kat's case touch you with their body) and kill you. Didn't help that the specials lasted long enough to get 6-7 kills in a 4-player match relatively easily if done correctly.
 
I personally thought it was brilliant. I would buy it again tomorrow if it came out on PS4.

I think the wider problems were possibly that the hardcore were expecting it to be more like Smash Bros and the general public didn't have the love for PS characters like people do for Nintendo's.
 
Let me immediately tell you what the first warning sign was for this game.

They based Spike's design and moveset on a SPIN-OFF. Same for Sir Daniel. Opting to use his Resurrection design, especially evident in his stage.

Thats how little respect the game pays to fans of Sony. Meanwhile Smash has so much love put into it that even its 3rd party content is represented with care. (Aside from DK and Wario getting the shit end of the stick)
 
Roster
Roster
Roster

When a game called PLAYSTATION ALL-STARS releases without Cloud, you know you fucked up.
 
Low budget seen in the barebones presentation and content variety
Missing key characters
People wanted it to be Smash Bros
People wanted it to not be a Smash Bros ripoff


It was a lot of fun though, and I'd love them to go at it again with gusto. All Stars Round 2; I'll be there.
 
Supers for scoring points was utterly stupid. Not fun at all. The core gameplay wasn't all that bad actually. The game's presentation sucked. It was bland and the menus went like as if someone coloured in some cardboard boxes. The roster was weird, some weird 3rd party characters, I mean Big Daddy...really? Why was Kat a DLC, she should have been there from day one. ;) Having other iconic PS characters would have helped. Didn't felt like there was any budget behind the game.
 
Get_craycray said:
It felt like a tasteless copy of Smash Bros.
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If anything, it wasn't enough like Smash in my opinion. I would've loved a Smash game with a completely different cast. But ultimately we got something that was not nearly as accessible and the balance of the finishers felt off (and the game was too barebones).
 
Didn't have character to it. Smash has a certain Japanese charm to it. You can tell Samurai was involved in every aspect of the game. When you played smash you really got to see his vision. PS All Stars just feels bland. The characters are dull as fuck (in the game), the menus are dull as fuck, and everything about it is just soulless. It needed to be more inviting. It's just very by the numbers.
 
Evilisk said:
It does not sound like you're criticizing Sakurai at all in your original post

And I stand by my original point. Rather than blaming PSBR for Smash 4 not having the mechanic, how about drumming up some noise so that hopefully Sakurai includes the option for the next port/game?
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It was pretty darned clear lol. "because he didn't want to be seen as copying another game" I literally specified that the reason he didn't use such a feature was because he wanted to avoid claims of ripping PSASBR off, not because it was a bad feature. It's entirely silly to me that you read what I said as "stage hazard toggles are bad."

Further, I have criticized Sakurai for not doing it? Do I get only one criticism token or something?

MatrixMan.EXE said:
The roster was shit and felt like more of a marketing exercise than something that speaks to PlayStation fans. The inclusion of nonsense like Big Daddy, DmC Dante and the dude from Dead Space in a game supposedly celebrating PlayStation speaks volumes.

The production values, especially the UI and music were absolutely atrocious. Showed a complete lack of effort and I'm surprised they even let the game be released in such a state. It was overall a very low quality product, not something that fans should expect from PlayStation's answer to Smash, especially when Smash itself is the epitome of quality content and production values.
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See, if Big Daddy appeared in a Microsoft franchise fighter, I could totally see that. The PS3 got BioShock later than Xbox 360 did, so it's not even as if Sony was uniquely associated with the BioShock brand. The comparison of Nintendo's third-party guests - Ryu, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Bayonetta, Snake, Cloud Strife - to Sony's - Big Daddy, New Dante, Heihachi Mishima, Raiden, Isaac Clarke - really sets the two games apart. Where Nintendo has a fighting game icon, three company mascots, a stealth game icon, and an RPG icon, Sony has three characters for advertising purposes, one secondary character from a big franchise, and... well, to be fair, a fighting game icon. Heihachi is really the only big third-party they got.
 
It had bad characters and wasn't that good to play. Smash is successful because Nintendo had great characters that onboards players easily and then has a level of depth and mastery to keep them there.

PlayStation All Stars didn't really have either.

It was a game designed for PlayStation fans but ultimately only appealed to PlayStation fanboys because it failed nostalgically and was only appealing to people who were going to buy it regardless of it's quality.
 
Awful design decisions, should have been a massive 3d fighter like the DBZ games and not that 2D crap with tiny characters.
 
SinCityAssassin said:
I still don't know how he managed that.
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Sakurai, Smash Bros., and Nintendo each have an enormous amount of respect within the industry (especially - but not exclusively - in Japan), so I wouldn't say it's that surprising. I get the feeling the number of characters he couldn't get is much smaller than the number he could. Remember, this is the series that got Snake, the main cast of Metal Gear for a bunch of Easter eggs, and the Metal Gear Solid IV theme song before the game even released, exclusively on a competitor's platform, because Kojima himself begged for it. :P So yeah, I think a lot of developers would be ecstatic to get their character into Smash, and a cross-over/promotional deal with an extremely popular, high quality franchise generally sounds pretty good to publishers. Even Phil Spencer said he'd love to see Rare characters make the jump.

Which is honestly part of the reason Sony's roster was doomed from the start - they were never going to have the clout that Sakurai and Smash have. They got plenty of third party characters, more than Nintendo, but not the ones that really matter, because devs/pubs are going to be less likely to hand over the keys to their crown jewels for an inevitable also-ran with a smaller budget and without the superstar director.
 
I think sony needs to learn to make their own unique Ip's instead of copying allot of games from Nintendo.

Maybe because Nintendo isn't a danger anymore for them, they will follow their own way (I believe this is already happening with ps4 en ps4 VR). I believe thats their future.
 
They put the game in the hands of inexperienced developers rather than treating it as the major franchise it should have been. The Playstation brand doesn't lend itself to an all-star fighting game, but in the hands of a better developer it would have been a moderate hit and would have spawned a sequel by now.
 
It shouldn't have been 2D. PlayStation's roots are in 3D and the gameplay should've reflected that.

Super only kills sucked.

No Crash was impossible to get over.
 
We have had so many threads like these in the past 5 years where the pitfalls of the game have been highlighted by so many people. I really hope Sony revisits the concept of a first party fighter in the soon learning from their mistake.

Starting by mimicking Marvel 3 style not smash.
 
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