-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
What went wrong with Playstation All Stars?
- Thread starter AdaWong
- Start date
Far too many things went wrong, but a few went right:
What Went Wrong:
The Roster:
If you're going to tout that a game includes All-Stars, you have to secure the rights to at the very least Crash and Spyro. Negotiating a deal with Activision is no easy task, but that needed to be done before developing the game.
There were also attainable first party characters who were inexplicably absent. A Chimera would have been a terrific representative from Resistance, and would have had an easy to create play style and super abilities thanks to the unique weapons in the franchise.
In the end, all of those exclusions meant that a bunch of b-tier stars made the cut, many of which really had no link to PlayStation. Big Daddy is a cool character, but his franchise's first entry didn't even launch on the console.
The Super System:
In an attempt to establish a unique identity, different from Smash Bros, the super system was created. It seems like an okay idea on paper, but it didn't work all that well in game. There was no consistency between the each super, or the tiers of supers. Some characters had easy to land level 1 supers, others didn't. Some level 2 supers could easily get a few kills, some were still tough to get one. Some level 3 were automatic stage clearing cinematics, others relied on player control to hopefully kill all the other players.
This could have all been balanced a bit had a hybridized model been considered where players had health like in Smash. Supers could have been encouraged to take massive amounts of health, but missing one wouldn't have had such a detrimental effect.
The UI:
It was just bad. Granted, had the game been better, I'd have dismissed it. Many people complain about some of the Smash UIs. It was just another indication that little effort was put into the game as a whole.
What Went Right:
Releasing DLC Characters:
Sure the characters weren't the greatest choices, but the execution was an interesting idea. As a huge fan of Sony's first party, I thought it was a cool idea to include DLC in other first party releases. Hades and Isaac Clarke were included for free with God of War Ascension. There were a lot of possibilities here. Had the game been more successful and that trend continued, we could have got Joel and Ellie with TLoU, Bentley and Murray with Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time, Kutaro with Puppeteer, Iota and Atoi with Tearaway, or jumped into the indie realm and partnered with Drinkbox for Guacamelee!'s Juan Aguacate or FuturLab for Velocity's Kai Tana. Had a Resistance 4 ever come around - I'm still sad - that would have been the prime time for a Chimera.
Alt Costumes:
Some of the alt costumes, many in the pre-order bonus were fantastic. They forwent the easy color swap for an entirely new character model. Swapping Kratos for his brother Deimos, Cole becoming Kessler, and reducing the Big Daddy to the plush doll version of Big Daddy were brilliant, and great fan service. Sweet Tooth's Outcast skin, which was pulled from his inclusion in Starhawk was another solid idea.
For as much as PSASBR bungled, I'd still like to see Sony try again, providing they listen to a lot of the feedback and incorporate some of the Smash DNA. They've got the IP to sustain a game. And with a few new characters like Knack, Delsin, Fetch, Bloodborne's Hunter, and Aloy, plenty they never used, and many more on the way, they could easily experiment again with the DLC.
What Went Wrong:
The Roster:
If you're going to tout that a game includes All-Stars, you have to secure the rights to at the very least Crash and Spyro. Negotiating a deal with Activision is no easy task, but that needed to be done before developing the game.
There were also attainable first party characters who were inexplicably absent. A Chimera would have been a terrific representative from Resistance, and would have had an easy to create play style and super abilities thanks to the unique weapons in the franchise.
In the end, all of those exclusions meant that a bunch of b-tier stars made the cut, many of which really had no link to PlayStation. Big Daddy is a cool character, but his franchise's first entry didn't even launch on the console.
The Super System:
In an attempt to establish a unique identity, different from Smash Bros, the super system was created. It seems like an okay idea on paper, but it didn't work all that well in game. There was no consistency between the each super, or the tiers of supers. Some characters had easy to land level 1 supers, others didn't. Some level 2 supers could easily get a few kills, some were still tough to get one. Some level 3 were automatic stage clearing cinematics, others relied on player control to hopefully kill all the other players.
This could have all been balanced a bit had a hybridized model been considered where players had health like in Smash. Supers could have been encouraged to take massive amounts of health, but missing one wouldn't have had such a detrimental effect.
The UI:
It was just bad. Granted, had the game been better, I'd have dismissed it. Many people complain about some of the Smash UIs. It was just another indication that little effort was put into the game as a whole.
What Went Right:
Releasing DLC Characters:
Sure the characters weren't the greatest choices, but the execution was an interesting idea. As a huge fan of Sony's first party, I thought it was a cool idea to include DLC in other first party releases. Hades and Isaac Clarke were included for free with God of War Ascension. There were a lot of possibilities here. Had the game been more successful and that trend continued, we could have got Joel and Ellie with TLoU, Bentley and Murray with Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time, Kutaro with Puppeteer, Iota and Atoi with Tearaway, or jumped into the indie realm and partnered with Drinkbox for Guacamelee!'s Juan Aguacate or FuturLab for Velocity's Kai Tana. Had a Resistance 4 ever come around - I'm still sad - that would have been the prime time for a Chimera.
Alt Costumes:
Some of the alt costumes, many in the pre-order bonus were fantastic. They forwent the easy color swap for an entirely new character model. Swapping Kratos for his brother Deimos, Cole becoming Kessler, and reducing the Big Daddy to the plush doll version of Big Daddy were brilliant, and great fan service. Sweet Tooth's Outcast skin, which was pulled from his inclusion in Starhawk was another solid idea.
For as much as PSASBR bungled, I'd still like to see Sony try again, providing they listen to a lot of the feedback and incorporate some of the Smash DNA. They've got the IP to sustain a game. And with a few new characters like Knack, Delsin, Fetch, Bloodborne's Hunter, and Aloy, plenty they never used, and many more on the way, they could easily experiment again with the DLC.
TharpDaddy
Member
Nothing was wrong with it, it was a fantastic game. It's my second favorite Smash game after Smash Wii U. I think the reason it sold poorly is that it had bad word of mouth and Sony's characters don't have the outright charm and recognition of Nintendo's. People know of Sony's characters, but they don't occupy the same mindspace as Mario, Link, DK, etc.
It copied SSB in the most shallow ways possible while attempting to make a new fighting system that was no fun. Basically, mash X until you build your super and then use your super.
Also, I hated the fact that there were multiple games present in a stage. Patapon transforming into Hades from God of War was dumb and unwanted imo.
Also, I hated the fact that there were multiple games present in a stage. Patapon transforming into Hades from God of War was dumb and unwanted imo.
It was a copy of Smash Brothers that didn't have the inherent fun or charm of Smash Brothers.
It also had a slightly questionable roster considering it was an "all star" list of Playstation. Final Fantasy was missing. Solid Snake wasn't in it (but Raiden was?). They used the reboot version of Dante instead of the good version of Dante (PSASBAR came out before DmC). Big Daddy from Bioshock was included even though Bioshock was a timed exclusive to Xbox. Cole was on the roster twice.
It also had a slightly questionable roster considering it was an "all star" list of Playstation. Final Fantasy was missing. Solid Snake wasn't in it (but Raiden was?). They used the reboot version of Dante instead of the good version of Dante (PSASBAR came out before DmC). Big Daddy from Bioshock was included even though Bioshock was a timed exclusive to Xbox. Cole was on the roster twice.
The Hamburglar
Banned
In their attempt to be different from smash they went with an unfun boring system to kill the opponent. If the game had the percentage system and knock off stsge the game could have been better than smash.
Honestly, there was no cohesion with the cast. They just grabbed characters from a bunch of popular franchises, from a bunch of very different developers, who can't really work outside of the context of their own games, and threw them together. No one gives a shit about pitting Nathan Drake against PaRappa.
Smash Bros.? We're talking about 30 years worth of well-known* Nintendo characters that share a general aesthetic, with some third party characters that have a common history.
(*Aside from FE in the West.)
Smash Bros.? We're talking about 30 years worth of well-known* Nintendo characters that share a general aesthetic, with some third party characters that have a common history.
(*Aside from FE in the West.)
R_thanatos
Member
Utimately it wasn't what Sonic Racing Transformed was: A "copy" of a mascot themed game but with it's own style, heart and care put into it.
I'll say it forever: These do not fit
and it's not because of Sony's diverse styles, but because it feels like they just ripped all the models straight from their games, a la Marvel vs Capcom 2 (but even MVC had more consistency).
I hate it
THis is it.
The models do not mesh well with each other.
The levels weren't done well
The super only for kills SUCKED
There was no care at all for the presentation.
What they should have done was to choose a theme & style and recreate everything in this style. ( characters , props , levels )
90% of the time this game is SUPER UGLY
mrmickfran
Member
This is amazing
Blueingreen
Member
Isnt that how it started, like some battle arena game in the same Vein as Fat Princess/ Power Stone? That's what we should of got rather than welfare smash brother's.
Regardless of what some people may same, the game's biggest issues were indeed the super system, character balance, and net code.
The roster sucked, but the game would still have a community if the game wasn't agonizing to play.
Smash Bros has plenty of characters that no one gives a shit about.
Need I bring up that Smash 4 has 6 Fire Emblem characters?
I have enough problems with the Smash bros. being overly defensive as is, but the super system in all stars is an abomination!
Oh, almost forgot: I'm going to echo the choir and say that the game is grotesque from an artistic perspective.
S
Just looking at screenshots make me literally nauseous
The roster sucked, but the game would still have a community if the game wasn't agonizing to play.
Smash Bros has plenty of characters that no one gives a shit about.
Need I bring up that Smash 4 has 6 Fire Emblem characters?
I have enough problems with the Smash bros. being overly defensive as is, but the super system in all stars is an abomination!
Oh, almost forgot: I'm going to echo the choir and say that the game is grotesque from an artistic perspective.
S
Just looking at screenshots make me literally nauseous
Mushroomer25
Member
They started making a Smash clone, panicked when people called them out for it, and turned out a half-assed product that couldn't satisfy anyone. They didn't do the work to get the necessary characters, didn't flesh out their core concept into something fulfilling for the FGC, and sold multiple roster spots to third parties to promote upcoming games.
The whole thing reeks of a mismanaged project, with very few redeeming elements.
The whole thing reeks of a mismanaged project, with very few redeeming elements.
Art style > Graphics, every day of the week.
But it also shouldn't surprise you when Nintendo put their A team and AAA budget into a multimillion selling series, versus the relative startup who worked on All-Stars.
The following:
-Non Looping Levels: Once a level does it's thing, it becomes a static level, most of the levels are set up so they do their thing within a limit of 2 minutes, they stop being dynamic after that, unlike Smash Bros levels, which loop and stay dynamic the entire match. Dreamescape's thing was that eventually it becomes a quiz show, one in which you're asked ONE question and that's it.
-The fighting system is not instantly clear: I personally liked the super system, but unlike a regular fighting game (KO opponents) or Smash bros (Ring out opponents), it's not instantly clear how you're supposed to win in PSABR
-Roster problems: The biggest problem here, the roster was less of a celebration of playstation and more a circle jerk by companies: Suckerpunch DEMANDED Cole to be 2 characters and held Sly ransom if they didn't get their way; Dante and Raiden, were put in as promotional characters for upcoming games instead of as characters from franchises with deep PS story, even worse, they put in the redesigned Dante that long time fans of the series hated; Big Daddy was put in to promote a game he's not even featured in, even worse he was a character from a timed XBOX exclusive game; They canned characters like Dart and Abe in favor of Zeus (a public domain mythological character) and Dead Space Guy (another multiplat character); they didn't even attempt to get Cloud (who would instead end up in Smash bros, to add insult to the injury), Crash, Lara Croft or Spyro. Basically the roster, the thing that makes or dooms these games, was a train wreck.
-Non Looping Levels: Once a level does it's thing, it becomes a static level, most of the levels are set up so they do their thing within a limit of 2 minutes, they stop being dynamic after that, unlike Smash Bros levels, which loop and stay dynamic the entire match. Dreamescape's thing was that eventually it becomes a quiz show, one in which you're asked ONE question and that's it.
-The fighting system is not instantly clear: I personally liked the super system, but unlike a regular fighting game (KO opponents) or Smash bros (Ring out opponents), it's not instantly clear how you're supposed to win in PSABR
-Roster problems: The biggest problem here, the roster was less of a celebration of playstation and more a circle jerk by companies: Suckerpunch DEMANDED Cole to be 2 characters and held Sly ransom if they didn't get their way; Dante and Raiden, were put in as promotional characters for upcoming games instead of as characters from franchises with deep PS story, even worse, they put in the redesigned Dante that long time fans of the series hated; Big Daddy was put in to promote a game he's not even featured in, even worse he was a character from a timed XBOX exclusive game; They canned characters like Dart and Abe in favor of Zeus (a public domain mythological character) and Dead Space Guy (another multiplat character); they didn't even attempt to get Cloud (who would instead end up in Smash bros, to add insult to the injury), Crash, Lara Croft or Spyro. Basically the roster, the thing that makes or dooms these games, was a train wreck.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
The super system was pretty bad, it was a decent idea but the balance was horrible and being forced to use however many bars you had instead of being able to pick to use a level 1, 2, or 3 was annoying. The cast was also pretty shitty with characters like Zeus and two Coles, and a ton of non-Sony characters like Dead Space 3 and Donte who were put in purely as marketing rather than their significance (like snake/sonic in smash)
I liked the game well enough, it was pretty fun, but super mediocre.
Edit: also, it wasn't a reason for the game failing, but this game did have some of the most hilariously ugly menus in recent memory.
I liked the game well enough, it was pretty fun, but super mediocre.
Edit: also, it wasn't a reason for the game failing, but this game did have some of the most hilariously ugly menus in recent memory.
I still find funny that, out of the 3 mascot fighting games the MGS series has been featured in, Snake skipped the ONE he'd have fit the most to be in.
Also at this point im sure Nintendo getting Ryu and Cloud for Smash 4 was just to spite Sony, sure Ryu has a history with nintendo, but in modern times SF is more ssociated with Sony.
Azure Phoenix
Member
Garbage gameplay, amateur presentation, no unifying art style, dull stages, lacklustre cast of characters and the game seeming to be little more than a vehicle for promoting current games rather than being a celebration of the Playstation brand.
Smash Brawl, That one with Optimus prime and Bomberman and which is the third ?
edit : DOH raiden in is this one.
Adam_Roman
Member
The biggest problem is that there were no ads for it. It came out in that down-period before the PS4 when Sony's old ad company did literally nothing. It's also a big contributor to the Vita's failure. I saw one Vita ad on TV and it was showing playing MLB The Show while walking around town.
captain_skyhawk
Member
The game itself lacked any character or soul. Nothing about it or the marketing got me excited for it.
When you first start playing it you have no idea whats happening and nothing feels intuitive especially winning. Everyone's just running around pushing buttons but no one is winning.
Atleast in smash if you knock some one of the stage there is the satisfaction of knocking some one off even if you dont use a special attack and on the other side if you get knocked back and recover that is super rewarding. In all stars you just die and are like wtf?
When you first start playing it you have no idea whats happening and nothing feels intuitive especially winning. Everyone's just running around pushing buttons but no one is winning.
Atleast in smash if you knock some one of the stage there is the satisfaction of knocking some one off even if you dont use a special attack and on the other side if you get knocked back and recover that is super rewarding. In all stars you just die and are like wtf?
Smash manages this pretty well though, it doesn't feel odd to see Cloud fighting Mario in an Animal Crossing setting in Smash 4
secretanchitman
Member
Supers were required to kill your opponents, the gameplay felt bland and it never had a community behind it. Not to mention, the UI was absolutely terrible. People hate on Smashs UI (I think its fine), but PSABRs UI is way worse.
They should have honestly made the game more like Smash and added in more recognizable characters (Cloud, Snake, Crash to name a few).
They should have honestly made the game more like Smash and added in more recognizable characters (Cloud, Snake, Crash to name a few).
Schobeleth
Member
I can't sift through all the pages like I used to. I was on the hype train here on GAF before it came out. It was insane, no brakes on that hype train.
The TL;DR with what went wrong, IMO:
Not enough iconic characters held back from licensing issues
Stupid focus on the super system, just to be different. This was the biggest drawback IMO. People thought they wanted something different but what they really wanted was literally SSB but with PlayStation characters.
The TL;DR with what went wrong, IMO:
Not enough iconic characters held back from licensing issues
Stupid focus on the super system, just to be different. This was the biggest drawback IMO. People thought they wanted something different but what they really wanted was literally SSB but with PlayStation characters.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I think when people criticize Supers, they do so with the idea that the replacement would involve not being balanced around Supers.
I will always jump in any all stars thread or warhawk thread.
I say this as a smash fan (own all of them even 3ds). I enjoy all stars more.
I don't think the super system was inherently bad. The combat system was actually fairly deep if you cared to learn it. It was a really interesting risk/reward battle.
Kratos was definitely OP, though. I always thought it would be interesting if they did a hybrid HP/AP system to where you start at (new) level 0, and die if you go down to nothing on level 0.
I can understand the roster complaints, though. But the characters and levels that were there were super faithful. I still suspect most of the blame lies on third parties.
Yes the ui was uninspired but I don't think you can say that is what kept people from the game. I think at the end of the day it was either that most people wrote it off on the premise or the roster.
I think they could have released it on ps4 and/or ps3 IGC to help the player base. I would buy a sequel.
Edit : yeah the marketing also didn't help. The only ad I saw was baaaad.
I say this as a smash fan (own all of them even 3ds). I enjoy all stars more.
I don't think the super system was inherently bad. The combat system was actually fairly deep if you cared to learn it. It was a really interesting risk/reward battle.
Kratos was definitely OP, though. I always thought it would be interesting if they did a hybrid HP/AP system to where you start at (new) level 0, and die if you go down to nothing on level 0.
I can understand the roster complaints, though. But the characters and levels that were there were super faithful. I still suspect most of the blame lies on third parties.
Yes the ui was uninspired but I don't think you can say that is what kept people from the game. I think at the end of the day it was either that most people wrote it off on the premise or the roster.
I think they could have released it on ps4 and/or ps3 IGC to help the player base. I would buy a sequel.
Edit : yeah the marketing also didn't help. The only ad I saw was baaaad.
fvng
Member
Yeah i dont know why it is pulled off nicely there but not in PAS
MisterHero
Super Member
Kratos is a terrible character and every game is lesser for him crossing over to them.
Seeiosly though there was a PS2 kaiju fighting game that eas more fun. War of the Monsters or something
Seeiosly though there was a PS2 kaiju fighting game that eas more fun. War of the Monsters or something
Rynocirator
Member
Netcode was eww. I'll take input delay and lag spikes any day over fighting wizards. Who doesn't love online only combos/infinites and teleporting into supers?
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Everything about the game was ugly. Everyone already said the UI and clashing artstyles and inconsistent look. But the box art looked bargain bin.
Even the name sucks. Super Smash Bros. sounds exciting and chaotic. Playstation All Stars sounds like a singing game starring your favorite has-been celebrities who had five minutes of fame.
Even the name sucks. Super Smash Bros. sounds exciting and chaotic. Playstation All Stars sounds like a singing game starring your favorite has-been celebrities who had five minutes of fame.
(fredrancour
Member
on my end in real life, the playstation brand strength is being a blank slate that can sell to nearly anyone. trying to push a celebration of playstation characters was just kind of fundamentally pointless among my real life friends because, even though we know which games are first-party, "playstation character" isn't really a concept for us.
didn't help that the name sounded like the title of a pitch document that somebody forgot to change in time for release. nintendo really lucked out with a name format that people could instantly tell was potentially mario related.
didn't help that the name sounded like the title of a pitch document that somebody forgot to change in time for release. nintendo really lucked out with a name format that people could instantly tell was potentially mario related.
anothertech
Member
I loved it. But ya it has flaws.
They should have hired Ninja Theory to do it as a Kungfu Chaos reboot with PlayStation characters. Loved that dam game.
They should have hired Ninja Theory to do it as a Kungfu Chaos reboot with PlayStation characters. Loved that dam game.
Yo, get it right, it's Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale
that would have had potential. i like that.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Yo, get it right, it's Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale
GodDAMN that is a long name. Sounds like one of those American game shows that are just inferior remakes of crazier Japanese game shows with less funny contestants. Which isn't too far from what PA-SBR is.
To Far Away Times
Member
Smash Bros feels like a love letter to Nintendo games and is stuffed tons of content and has sky high production values.
All Stars feels like a contract obligation that was shat out. It's a bad game by itself but with these two games leading to such direct comparisons it's even worse.
All Stars feels like a contract obligation that was shat out. It's a bad game by itself but with these two games leading to such direct comparisons it's even worse.
EatinOlives
Member
If anything it really goes to show the amount of sheer polish Smash games get. There's a ton of hidden "game feel" from the audio-visual feedback to the mechanical details of character movement coupled with animations and enough visual design so as to not make everything completely chaotic (although sadly Smash 4 definitely got too chaotic if items were turned on and you were playing on a stage with a ton of stage hazards).
PSABR was a decent first go at it in terms of gameplay but had key features missing in the general gameplay loop that ended up completely draining the fun out of it. They also really screwed up the presentation. It was completely sterile and even felt like a cheaplyproduced mobile-esque knockoff.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I wonder what non-playstation iconic characters we will get in Playstation All-Stars Shoot Out Bonanza. Watch Dogs man? Destiny dudes? Aloy? Mads Mikkelson?
Michael Armbrust
Member
I really liked it, but the super system seemed really flawed. Doing no damage with standard hits was way too abstract.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
It wasn't fun.
Also too many characters people didn't care about, and too few characters related to PlayStation history (like Lara, Crash, Cloud etc.)
Also too many characters people didn't care about, and too few characters related to PlayStation history (like Lara, Crash, Cloud etc.)