I think people have been clearly referencing the sales and the nature of the game, and not wether or not it's a good game of its kind. It's not unfair to say it's a rather misguided project on the wrong platform that had a pretty harmful reveal. That's what people are talking about, really.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
What were Nintendo and Atlus thinking when making #FE ?
- Thread starter GhostTrick
- Start date
I mean, it's different tonally from SMT for example but I think you're exaggerating how much of a departure this is for Atlus. They're all jrpgs about teenagers in modern day Tokyo using otherworldly beings (demons, personas, mirages) to save the world. The dungeons and battle systems in this game wouldn't be totally out of place in Persona or SMT. It's certainly different than what they've made before but making a game about the entertainment industry isn't really that far out there for them.
Solid SOAP
Member
No I haven't. But I didn't say anything about its quality. I said that its very niche. And it is.
Well, we learned it bombed with the last Media Create thread, isn't this the first thread about it?
I am watching some gameplay videos and music. It looks way darker than what previews showed.
Just listen to the Boss Battle Theme
Just listen to the Boss Battle Theme
I don't believe that appealing to Xenoblade X's buyers was ever a priority, seeing as that game and #FE are nothing alike.
RecRoulette
Member
This has most likely been funded entirely by Nintendo. So, I'm sure Atlus isn't exactly happy, but I don't think it's a terribly catastrophic outcome for them either.
There goes the devs ambitions of creating a new IP, though.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
The game's nothing revolutionary, but no where near as bad as people basing their opinions on secondhand footage are making it sound.
Some of you people need a good nap or something
Some of you people need a good nap or something
Well, they clearly succeeded in appealing to no one at all, so yay at that, I guess.
That's most certainly not the point of the OP. Why can't people discuss about the decisions behind the creation of this game?
It's been months and it's still the same thing over and over. "Omg I didn't get my SMT x FE crossover. This Idol game sucks"
Because we've done this discussion and downwards spiral several times. Just let me get to a PC and I'll link all the GAF topics and interviews pertaining to OP
There's one of those "appealing to no one at all" statements again, I see. If anything, the most fascinating thing about this entire experiment has been how petty and spiteful some have been about the end result.
Has anyone said they hope it doesn't sell?
Are you secretly a Wii U, and that's why you're taking this so personally?
It's probably a well made game. Atlus games usually are. But it's also a game that isn't going to appeal to a lot of people. It just doesn't look interesting from the outside.
I think you're taking these statements too literally. They obviously don't mean "This appeals to not one single person on the planet". Come on now.
Are you comparing a mobile game with full priced console/handheld games?
Because one of those two categories can indeed not survive by catering to otakus alone, even though thats what the Awekening/Fates haters want you to believe.
It's not a statement about quality, but about sales. Selling 20k first week for what is an RPG with relatively decent production values is absolutely horrible. There's no other way to describe this. #FE isn't some super low-budget title by Compile Hearts and the likes.
and?
I think everyone could call that this wasn't going to light up the charts. Its a niche game in a niche genre...about niche shit..on a dying and niche system. It being SMT X FE, only would take off maybe two of those niche tags. It would have brought in more people due to the safe nature of it and nostalgia but its not like this mythical version of the game would be out there pulling Splatoon numbers. The audience isn't there...hell XBX kinda tanked too IIRC.
I like that they took a chance instead of playing it safe and hopefully, I'll still get a good game out of it. I stopped worrying about sales a long time ago..especially for Nintendo stuff...shit sucks but what are you gonna do, eh? Life is too short. I am just glad that the game isn't trash. I'm not even a super Idol loving type guy as I tend to avoid that stuff...its not for me but a console JRPG is something I won't pass up...especially ones with effort behind them.
It just sucks that most of the threads surrounding this game are retreads of the same "why isn't it SMT X FE" or "OMH IDOLS IN MAH GAEMZ" stuff that we already have discussed and interviews that should clear up the whole situation.
so I ask...what are we even talking about at this point that hasn't been discussed?
RecRoulette
Member
It doesn't look interesting to who? The small venn diagram crossover of both SMT and Fire Emblem fans? Because that's the only group that seems that upset about all of this.
Super Stardust
Member
I think those people are still angry because the game didn't turn out like they expected when they heard smt and fe. But that's too bad for them because the game looks great and the impressions are really good.
dreamlongdead
Member
I really have no idea what they were thinking. It was clearly a bad decision, because it is not what Fire Emblem and SMT fans wanted.
It doesn't appeal to anyone is a pretty douchy thing to say even if the group is appeals to is like 5 people.
"Hey that thing you are excited for/enjoying? well too bad, you don't matter because it is niche". If that is the case then a good chunk of the industry doesn't matter either...and that is kinda sad. There is a place for super ass niche games..even from semi big devs.
and lets be real, that isn't the real issue. People are still buttmad that they didn't get the game they wanted (fair enough) and they want to gloat about this bombing for some reason.
Zenaku
Member
What games are you talking about exactly? The last full in-house game to hit PlayStation consoles was Catherine, almost 5 years ago. Some might count Persona 4 Ultimax, but that wasn't entirely in-house (was any of it?) and while they published Dragons Crown in Japan (not sure about elsewhere) they didn't develop it.
Atlus is virtually non-existent on PlayStation consoles. They might publish some stuff in the US I don't know about but they have nothing to do with them beyond publishing.
As far as this game goes, it's great. Some really nice and memorable character songs from great characters, a fun battle system, and a visual style and presentation unlike anything I've played recently. It's wonderfully refreshing, and I hope more games go this route, or a similar one, and explore characters and stories yet to be touched upon. People compare it to Persona, but personally I'm enjoying it far more than I enjoyed P4.
Well, two questions need to be asked here:
Those two are some hard checks for potential sales. If it was an SRPG it definitely would have appealed more to the Fire Emblem audience, if it was more obvious about its' SMT themes (if there are many), it definitely would have appealed more to the Shin Megami Tensei crowd.
Honestly looking at it I don't think we are the only ones who got some heavy Persona vibes from it in the first place, issue with that being however I assume that audience to be rather part of Playstation's audience instead of Nintendo's.
- How well does it appeal to the Fire Emblem / SMT audience?
- How well does it appeal to the WiiU audience in Japan?
Those two are some hard checks for potential sales. If it was an SRPG it definitely would have appealed more to the Fire Emblem audience, if it was more obvious about its' SMT themes (if there are many), it definitely would have appealed more to the Shin Megami Tensei crowd.
Honestly looking at it I don't think we are the only ones who got some heavy Persona vibes from it in the first place, issue with that being however I assume that audience to be rather part of Playstation's audience instead of Nintendo's.
It doesn't look interesting to people who buy videogames, clearly.
Just because somebody doesn't buy something doesn't mean they're upset by it.
The amount of people who are upset by this is probably tiny, as you say. And yet, that hasn't helped the sales.
Abd in case you were confused, I am most certainly not upset by it. But I'm also not buying it.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
The release timing was terrible as well. This will probably be one of those that picks up as word spreads, at least in Japan
Sammy Samusu
Member
Persona happened and it's now corrupting everything.
It doesn't look interesting to a lot of people since it sold like shit. The small venn diagram crossover of both SMT and Fire Emblem fans may actually be bigger than the numers of people who bought the game.
And when people say "it wasn't a good idea" they aren't upset, they are just saying "it wasn't a good idea".
The thing is, niche games are usually not very high budget, and -usually- they're released on platforms where they're actually wanted. Again, this is just a discussion about how this game is a rather misguided product.
Honestly, no developer out there wants to please "5 people", or not get a return of their investment. Hence, I'll never get a sequel for my GOTY 2015 (Code Name STEAM)
Coffee Dog
Banned
It turns out that if you combine modern day monster fighting and dungeon crawling (SMT) with high school aged anime waifu shenanigans (FE) you wind up with something that looks a lot like persona
Regardless of what they made, it was never going to have the themes and tone of a mainline SMT game, which was never suited to being mashed up with FE undiluted. At best, it was always going to be closer to the comparatively lighter spin-offs such as Persona and Devil Survivor, which both fall under Megami Ibunroku/Goddess Revelations (hence why I believe it's no coincidence that they went with a similar title of Genei Ibunroku/Illusory Revelations).
the "namedropping atlus directors" trick, while clever, doesnt exactly work when one of the two heads on #FE is the director of strange journey. a game on which yamai worked under him. along with #FE's other director.
also both were key staff on nocturne.
educate yourself here!
http://personacentral.com/new-genei-ibun-roku-fe-information-and-screenshots/
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,278854/
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,278853/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nintendo-ds/shin-megami-tensei-strange-journey/credits (key words: "director" "direction support")
Sumio Mondo
Member
Exactly why I don't want Atlus making this trash. Yamai worked as director on Nocturne, so educate yourself too, bro. As did Hashino on the vanilla version of Nocturne (before the Labyrinth of Amala), so "key staff from Nocturne" now actually work on the Persona series. Strange Journey was co-developed by Lancarse. These kind of games are a collaborative effort and I still stand by what I said, Yamai and Hashino don't work on crap like this. I also acknowledged the team that were working on this as being talented, henceforth why I want that team (the very same team behind games like Growlanser series and Devil Survivor; the producer of this FE game is the creator of those very two series) to make another game in either of those series over this dreck.
Sure I can agree with the gameplay systems at least, you can grind it down to that (tonally this is the polar opposite) but if they used those systems for a game that appeals aesthetically at all to the Atlus fanbase, then they would buy it. It's a game based around idols, even the dungeons are, so no, they would definitely stand out in a SMT game. Can't say I've encountered any dungeons in SMT where an idol's song is what they're based around, or the bright colour palette either. And it's not a game about the entertainment industry, it's a game about the Idol industry, just one sector of their entertainment industry. If anything, this game is a big departure for them. And like i said before, this is not the kind of game I want out of Atlus, so I;m glad they will continue making what they are known for (and frankly, better at).
Since when was Fire Emblem about high-school aged characters? It usually has a pretty varied spread of characters across your army, far more so than most RPGs due to the space for variety. Sure, the lords (the leaders/main protagonists) are usually late-teens, but you choose the rest of your regular force. They are protected by veteran Knights and generals, and younger warriors in their 20s who have enough experience to be steady but are young enough to still be cocky about it. I've seen Middle-aged healers and mages as well as child ones, and sometimes the characters are families too (like Brom and his useless daughter Meg in Radiant Dawn, and the father/son combo of warriors in Sacred Stones). FE has the space for a lot of characters, it's just a shame that often the focus is on the younger ones due to the target audience. The older characters (plus the lords) are almost invariably far more interesting than the younger ones as they tend to have a troubled past, dependents or conflicted loyalty to worry about, rather than a tedious anime trope with zero depth like 'eats a lot!' in place of any actual motivation.
YianGaruga
Banned
And why is that? There are tons of games which do exactly that. Idea Factory seems to do well enough.
LifeBrandRobot
Member
They wanted that anime (Vita) crowd.
cj_iwakura
Member
From what I've seen, the game does legitimately look stylish and fun to play.
That said, they really started off on the wrong foot. You have the strength of two franchises with legitimately gripping stories about modern occult and intercontinental warfare, and the result? A J-pop idol sim with summoning.
They marketed it to the wrong crowd, and reaped the whirlwind. The result isn't bad, but it sure isn't what anyone hoped for. It could have been something truly unique, instead it's just a polished rock.
Hopefully they try to do what fans of both franchises were actually hoping for next time, but that ship's probably sailed, capsized, and sunk.
That said, they really started off on the wrong foot. You have the strength of two franchises with legitimately gripping stories about modern occult and intercontinental warfare, and the result? A J-pop idol sim with summoning.
They marketed it to the wrong crowd, and reaped the whirlwind. The result isn't bad, but it sure isn't what anyone hoped for. It could have been something truly unique, instead it's just a polished rock.
Hopefully they try to do what fans of both franchises were actually hoping for next time, but that ship's probably sailed, capsized, and sunk.
Nintendo pretty much already had it with Fates and its character rubbing.
*still plans on getting Fates if and only if more SEs actually become available*
Bayonetta 2 bombed and there were no threads about how fundamentally flawed its design was.
I think the fact of the matter is that Persona fans are on PS3 and Vita and SMT/FE fans are on 3DS. This game probably should have been a lower budget 3DS game if they wanted to make money, but to me it seemed like Nintendo just really wanted to build its list, even if that meant a few flops.
I think the fact of the matter is that Persona fans are on PS3 and Vita and SMT/FE fans are on 3DS. This game probably should have been a lower budget 3DS game if they wanted to make money, but to me it seemed like Nintendo just really wanted to build its list, even if that meant a few flops.
two men do not a company make. atlus has key, long-tenured staff on this project, including the director of a celebrated SMT title. you bring up lancarse as though to diminish ishida's directorial experience and then immediately turn around and assert that hashino and yamai are literally the only key staff on nocturne. yamai and hashino don't work on "crap like this" because they didn't, this time. if their boss had told them they were to work on #FE do you really think either man would've quit?
i only mean to inform you that this game was not made by some fake pseudo-atlus. it is as much an atlus game as any other, and namedropping directors who just happened to have other projects ongoing at the time doesn't change that fact.
Stilton Disco
Member
Since the first trailer, I've assumed Nintendo's thinking was:
"You know that Stilton Disco guy that's always slagging us off on Neogaf? Let's have Atlus make us a WiiU game just for him!"
It seems as likely as any other explanation quite frankly.
"You know that Stilton Disco guy that's always slagging us off on Neogaf? Let's have Atlus make us a WiiU game just for him!"
It seems as likely as any other explanation quite frankly.
cj_iwakura
Member
The fact that #FE bombed in Japan makes its localization practically assured. They're going to hope a western initiative can help recoup their losses, which is possible(if a gamble).