badcrumble
Member
Total reversal of the yen-dollar situation.
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What will it take for japan to be on top again?
- Thread starter Jea Song
- Start date
CaptNfantasy
Banned
Thank god someone had the balls to say it.
Because Nintendo is only one in a vast sea of developers from the country and we're talking about the country as a whole?
Nintendo never counts.
Wii isn't this-gen, WiiU isn't next-gen, colorful platformers don't sell well (with the exception of Mario, Kirby, DK), no Japanese game can do well in the West (because seriously, Mario and Pokémon?), etc.
That's the only way for the Japanese to come back up on top again.
I consider Japan's handheld efforts the best this gen but the western atmosphere doesn't care does it?
Because the OP said Nintendo doesn't count.
For me they would need to catch up in tech and online play. They could also try and focus on releasing more new AAA IPs. I feel like most of their games lack greatly in these areas compared to other regions putting out games. Not to mention I feel like most of their big franchises are very stagnant. Remember when it used to be a treat when an MGS game was announced?
Nintendo has always been an anomaly. Even now they stand alone while the rest of their country struggles to remain relevant to the rest of the gaming world.
Japan's going to have to make more western style games to get by. They try now but they clearly don't understand what it takes to pull it off yet, they're in the growing pains stage. But people in this thread are confusing their personal wants with what the question in the OP is which is more geared towards overall relevancy. The "just be yourself" answers make it obvious.
entremet
Member
Some of the best selling games this generation were from Nintendo, which happens to be Japanese. Taken as a whole ignoring their success does not provide a full picture.
Neff
Member
Japan is still on top artistically, technically and creatively, but to rule the world commercially as they once did, they need to spend more money, stop assuming that casual players are the dominant purchasing force, and regain their confidence.
Basically they need to do what the western games industry has done to usurp them, spend and strive.
Basically they need to do what the western games industry has done to usurp them, spend and strive.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
1. Make good games.
2. Don't stuff them full of animu ~uguu moe shit if you want to appeal to the West too.
3. Get them out the door in time, don't spend 6+ years dicking around on a single title.
4. Profit.
2. Don't stuff them full of animu ~uguu moe shit if you want to appeal to the West too.
3. Get them out the door in time, don't spend 6+ years dicking around on a single title.
4. Profit.
SolarPowered
Member
That and putting their sellers/experimental games on the PC without antagonizing PC gamers(timely releases/patches, more steam integration and lots of performance options).
Because Japanese developers used to create "on top" tech games/consoles on par with current technology, now when you see a Japanese game it's pretty hard to find anything you can say woah!
:O 
__When you played Zelda OOT, Mario 64 on their time you simply amaze with that graphics and gameplay, but now, neither Nintendo reach that... and many of the other are just clusterfuck with Moé, Gallon Tits.. and seems they cannot affort big great games like Final Fantasy Versus XIII, The Last Guardian or many others you only read bad news & problems on their diary development.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Stop relying on the past.
Most Japanese devs aren't Nintendo. They can't rely constantly on what brought them, because the industry on both sides of the Atlantic has moved past that. This isn't the Super Nintendo era.
The west is doing better right now because what they are releasing is newer and fresher to gamers than what Japan wants to lean on. The West will reach a point where the status quo will not be enough, but for now it's new and it's exciting, so they can afford to be derivative.
Most Japanese devs aren't Nintendo. They can't rely constantly on what brought them, because the industry on both sides of the Atlantic has moved past that. This isn't the Super Nintendo era.
The west is doing better right now because what they are releasing is newer and fresher to gamers than what Japan wants to lean on. The West will reach a point where the status quo will not be enough, but for now it's new and it's exciting, so they can afford to be derivative.
human onion
Banned
These, plus release your games on PC. I feel like the more 'niche' kinds of games in Japan can sell much better there than on consoles with cheaper prices and digital download stores like Steam.
The most popular games in the West are stuff like CoD and sports titles, right? I'm not sure freshness and innovation has anything to do with this, it's more like these games became very popular in most regions.
Japan was on top when fighters/platformers/RPGs dominated, the West is on top when shooters are dominating.
Japan was on top when fighters/platformers/RPGs dominated, the West is on top when shooters are dominating.
Delusibeta
Banned
This is what I was referring to as a Western console crash. THQ's probably going to collapse within the next 12 months, EA and ActiBlizz has had investors flee and 2k is reliant on their Rockstar branch and they've been releasing too many duds lately. Pretty much the only major western publishers that is in decent shape is
Crash Station
Member
So lose their identity? Good to know. Guess I'll never want Japan on top again. I'm having a blast with their current output.
Honestly don't care or want Japan to be on top again. I'd much prefer to see a burgeoning industry take shape, develop and lead from another sector. UK, Eastern europe or wherever. Its unlikely to happen, but thats a more interesting proposition than US/Japan dominance as far as I'm concerned.
Koopakiller
Banned
Capcom was king at the start of this gen... then they stumbled, and I doubt they'll ever recover. Konami seems mismanaged and out of touch, they'll probably die off after MGS can't be milked anymore. Namco plays it too safe. And Sega? Aren't Sega going digital-only or someshit? They'll keep diminishing until they're irrelevant.
Square Enix hasn't exactly been on fire this gen but they seem to have a vision for the future, at least. Pretty sure they realize that they can't rely on Final Fantasy forever, and they seem to be putting Eidos to good use. They're the only Japanese giant that seems comparable to Ubisoft or Take-Two, in that they're doing alright now and they'll probably do better next gen
But as a whole, Japan is fucked. With their reproductive problems, they seem to be fucked in every way possible, with no solution in sight. Certain companies can survive but they'll never overtake the west.
Square Enix hasn't exactly been on fire this gen but they seem to have a vision for the future, at least. Pretty sure they realize that they can't rely on Final Fantasy forever, and they seem to be putting Eidos to good use. They're the only Japanese giant that seems comparable to Ubisoft or Take-Two, in that they're doing alright now and they'll probably do better next gen
But as a whole, Japan is fucked. With their reproductive problems, they seem to be fucked in every way possible, with no solution in sight. Certain companies can survive but they'll never overtake the west.
What makes you think going Western will make them "on top" again? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I can't think of an example (game) that supports this claim.
Crash Station
Member
Those are all niche games that don't even chart. Not the majority.
This may not be the place to say it, but I find most "Western style" games so clunky and without style, and I don't get why no one ever mentions it. The only exception to this is Uncharted, and even that's a little clunky.
If I'm standing by a ledge, doing an awkward jump animation guessing which ledge I'm allowed to go on, it's clunky.
I think the current difficulties of Japanese companies appealing to some Western markets says as much about the Japanese companies (who are struggling with innovation in some regards) as it does with the Western markets (who are struggling with accepting innovation).
If I'm standing by a ledge, doing an awkward jump animation guessing which ledge I'm allowed to go on, it's clunky.
I think the current difficulties of Japanese companies appealing to some Western markets says as much about the Japanese companies (who are struggling with innovation in some regards) as it does with the Western markets (who are struggling with accepting innovation).
drtomoe123
Member
Nailed it.
Won't happen, as long as their Japanese audience, at large, sees no value in the PC.
If the PC were to ever become recognized as a veritable gaming platform to the Japanese, and not just a novelty that some like to dump their doujin/indy games on, maybe things would change.
But I think it's telling when former doujin companies like French Bread (Melty Blood) and Aquaplus/Leaf did more to leave the PC behind when they wanted to enter the mainstream console/arcade market. Because they wanted to go "where the money is".
It'd probably require either an implosion of most western companies or at least a shift back to PC for them... which not only does seem like the most likely way Japan could rise again, but doesn't even seem TOO farfetched given the problems the big companies seem to be facing and how many want to chase the free-to-play model.
It'd probably also require the yen being weaker relative to outside currencies again just to make profiting off of us seem that much more lucrative again.
CadetMahoney
Member
Their highest point is behind them now never to return as the dominant video game sales in the west.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Crash Station
Member
This is why people are saying Japan is still ahead in overall design.
What made them popular in the first place weren't "western-style games". If anything, I would say continuing to cater to that group outside of stuff like Resident Evil would actually be detrimental. When people see a western-like game coming out of Japan that isn't in a proven franchise, their first instinct is to be wary of it, while something with Japanese-leaning global appeal is more likely to be noticed and not passed up for another Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed.
The Japanophiles are wrong, Derrick is wrong, and the OP is wrong for excluding Nintendo.
Nintendo's approach of making games that appeal both domestically and overseas to a broad variety of demographics is exactly what more Japanese developers should do if they want to be more relevant.
Don't rely strictly on niches. Don't think you can wind the AAA blockbuster war. Be omnivorous.
Nintendo's approach of making games that appeal both domestically and overseas to a broad variety of demographics is exactly what more Japanese developers should do if they want to be more relevant.
Don't rely strictly on niches. Don't think you can wind the AAA blockbuster war. Be omnivorous.
Canis lupus
Member
-Graphics. The one department Japan lacked in this gen. It takes Japanese devs a long time to develop games.
-Give us the games we ask. Persona 5, KH3, FFvsXIII etc.
-Give us the games we ask. Persona 5, KH3, FFvsXIII etc.
Delusibeta
Banned
Q) Why is Japan the poster country for having a lack of births when both South Korea and Poland have a lower fertility rate, and Italy and Germany a similar fertility rate?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Personally I think the larger issue is that we have a myopic view of the past because gaming was smaller, and Japan dominated a niche that there was no serious competition in. The western world focused most of its game creation efforts on the personal computer.
In addition, the audience for gaming was narrower. Gaming was younger. Less people had grown up with it. More old people ignored the new electronic nonsense.
Today, I'm not sure Japan CAN "be on top", for I am not sure there's a top to climb onto. The western oriented hardcore gamer may see the sum total of gaming in terms of what "really matters" as AAAA console games aimed at 20-30 year old males, or the hottest high tech PC games aimed at enthusiast PC building gamers. But gaming is far wider than that today.
I might say Japan does not need to dominate, or 'win', or reclaim a crown, so much as they need to spread out. And the irony is, while everyone seems focused on Why Can't Japan Make Something Just Like Assassin's Creed, Japan is focusing a lot of effort on the mobile arena. If anything, the aggravation or annoyance one sees among western core gamers at this may be indicative that such gamers do not realize the importance of how gaming is growing. People get ticked off when a Japanese publisher suddenly starts putting out iOS games, because they want "real games on my console". Japan meanwhile, probably sees something that may be rather suited to their talents and abilities. They are great at mobile gaming because they never lost their touch with making miniaturized experiences. They're great at putting small, focused teams of artisians on "bonsai" projects. And it is a growing market, with room to experiment.
In addition, the audience for gaming was narrower. Gaming was younger. Less people had grown up with it. More old people ignored the new electronic nonsense.
Today, I'm not sure Japan CAN "be on top", for I am not sure there's a top to climb onto. The western oriented hardcore gamer may see the sum total of gaming in terms of what "really matters" as AAAA console games aimed at 20-30 year old males, or the hottest high tech PC games aimed at enthusiast PC building gamers. But gaming is far wider than that today.
I might say Japan does not need to dominate, or 'win', or reclaim a crown, so much as they need to spread out. And the irony is, while everyone seems focused on Why Can't Japan Make Something Just Like Assassin's Creed, Japan is focusing a lot of effort on the mobile arena. If anything, the aggravation or annoyance one sees among western core gamers at this may be indicative that such gamers do not realize the importance of how gaming is growing. People get ticked off when a Japanese publisher suddenly starts putting out iOS games, because they want "real games on my console". Japan meanwhile, probably sees something that may be rather suited to their talents and abilities. They are great at mobile gaming because they never lost their touch with making miniaturized experiences. They're great at putting small, focused teams of artisians on "bonsai" projects. And it is a growing market, with room to experiment.
ranmafan
Member
It's a tough question to really answer, but it really boils down to the most important factor is Japan just needs to do what it always does in my eyes, make great games. While making games that appeal to the west is important and I think trying out western styles can be good at times, I think Japan needs to do what it does best for its games at home and just make the best games it can that way. People say Japan can't just be Japan anymore but I think being too much like the west doesn't solve the problem either. Too many times the efforts in trying to be like the west results in games that only barely can compete with their western counterparts. Pepople werent afraid or uninterested in playing Japanese styled games before because they were interesting, unique, and importantly good. And today there are plenty of good examples of those experiences coming from the Japanese market. Japan shouldn't be afraid to keep making the games they know best, But I also think Japanese games would be wise to continue adopting gameplay ideas from the west that can work best for them, and make them part of their style. Also, it would be wise of Japan to broaden their story ideas, particularly past the usual styles they portray. For example the 12 year old hero who will save the world. It's fine sometimes but not always and thankfully we are seeing some examples of games trying to jump away from this. Also they need to listen to gamers more about what they want.
Anyway I'm just rambling, but really no matter what style they go for, making great games is the key. Japan still does but they need to just treak a few things in the end for everyone to enjoy them. And also western gamers need to expand their interests too and give games a try that usually they wouldn't. Always good to expand your interests and talents, and in this case both sides can benefit from this idea.
Anyway I'm just rambling, but really no matter what style they go for, making great games is the key. Japan still does but they need to just treak a few things in the end for everyone to enjoy them. And also western gamers need to expand their interests too and give games a try that usually they wouldn't. Always good to expand your interests and talents, and in this case both sides can benefit from this idea.
Pyrrhus
Member
It isn't. There just aren't really any Japanese companies that can consistently match the budgets that Ubisoft, EA, and Activision throw out there with their yearly releases. For development or advertisement. On top of that, Japan has the handicap of being required to make games that appeal to a culture different from their own if they try to go for budgets that big. The mainstream market demands spectacle and ever-increasing technical wizardry and that just isn't cheap, especially with their inefficient working methods. The Japanese companies have been priced out of the top tier.
Flakster99
Member
A blow job with every game purchase?
At this point, due to handhelds receiving quality, quantity, unique, main-line Japan software you can forget-about-it.
Imo, Nintendo will have to eventually figure out how to sell, transform their portable base into the home console space. They are well on their way with the Wii U controller as a portable wannabe console as a starting point, so in another 5-7 years.
Those forsaking Nintendo shouldn't be so quick to dismiss their integral importance to such a question being answered, considering they FUCKING OWN Japan currently and I honestly don't see that changing until they announce their next round of consoles/portables as a hybrid type machine.
At this point, due to handhelds receiving quality, quantity, unique, main-line Japan software you can forget-about-it.
Imo, Nintendo will have to eventually figure out how to sell, transform their portable base into the home console space. They are well on their way with the Wii U controller as a portable wannabe console as a starting point, so in another 5-7 years.
Those forsaking Nintendo shouldn't be so quick to dismiss their integral importance to such a question being answered, considering they FUCKING OWN Japan currently and I honestly don't see that changing until they announce their next round of consoles/portables as a hybrid type machine.
Really? Dragon's Dogma was fun, but I wouldn't call that the best. Going by your avatar I would expect more Persona 3. Burn my dread.
cj_iwakura
Member
And yet being Japan gets us games like Catherine and Soul Hackers. So yeah, stay Eastern, thanks.
Koopakiller
Banned
Those other countries have immigration. Japan only has emigration
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
I just wish Japan would embrace digital distribution. So far Sega and Square-Enix are the only ones noteworthy both in PC and in iOS.
More unique games for iOS/Android would be a good start imo. Considering the popularity mobile phones/tablets over handhelds in the west.
"Get back on the top" is a pretty meaningless phrase, specially since the "west" is everything from USA to Russia. They just need to release more games that are available to us.
More unique games for iOS/Android would be a good start imo. Considering the popularity mobile phones/tablets over handhelds in the west.
"Get back on the top" is a pretty meaningless phrase, specially since the "west" is everything from USA to Russia. They just need to release more games that are available to us.
old manatee
Banned
From can lead the charge by patching Durante's mod into Dark Souls.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
they wont be.
they fell too far behind in the quality/coolness area.
they will be niche except for few select titles. Square Enix is in the best position at the moment because they bought Eidos and they can appeal to western markets better with products coming out of there.
they fell too far behind in the quality/coolness area.
they will be niche except for few select titles. Square Enix is in the best position at the moment because they bought Eidos and they can appeal to western markets better with products coming out of there.
DR2K
Banned
Gamecritics choice awards.
Delusibeta
Banned
In that case, just convert a large bag of yen into an even larger bag of dollars and send them to the judges.
More Fun To Compute
Member
A baby boom. New blood. They have an aging population. What can you expect in the way of new ideas other than game about not getting senile and being able to play ten pin bowling without having to bend down to lift a heavy ball.
Baconsammy
Banned
It would take western devs to all get together and agree to stop caring. In other words, not happening.