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Whats a good HDR TV?

lol this thread is the reason why Sony's focus on 4k was so fucking stupid. you arent going to get a 50 inch 4ktv with hdr for under a thousand dollars.

that puts the total cost of PS4 Pro at $1,400. yeah, fuck that.

should have just focused on 60 fps and ultra pc settings.
 
michaelius said:
Samsung UHD sets have some minor issues with HDR - their can keep their peak brightness only on a very small part of screen for a very short time.



You realize that those premium logos are waste of time because they require meeting those parameters with test patter with tiny dot of white and tv doesn't even have to mantain that peak brightness for any serious amount of time ?

Panasonic DX750 will have better HDR picture than Samsung Premium certified tvs...
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This isn't true, at least not in the way you are describing it. Peak brightness is exactly that, peaking out at 1000 nits in a 10% window is exactly how it's supposed to work. You watch The Revenant for example, and you see the sun shining between the tree branches, and that sun peaking through is only taking up a small area of the screen, but it's 1000nits bright, it makes you squint as you would looking at the sun through the trees in real life.

All these TVs that boast 1000nits plus are all peak figures of a 10% window, full screen brightness is a lot less.

Case in point, the Samsung KS7000, has a peak of 1,500nits on a 10% window, on 100% full screen it peaks at 537nits. In contrast, SDR peaks at about 500nits with a full screen going around 120nits. So it's a big difference.

The KS7000 is also a much better TV than that Panasonic, the sammy has a 10 bit VA panel for a start, that panasonic only has an 8 bit panel.
 
This is from Rtings.com, a tv site. If you care about HDR and gaming, this is what you need to know. TVs much more expensive can't do this:

"The Samsung KS8000 is one of the best 4K TVs available right now. It’s really versatile, it does great in brighter rooms and is the best alternative to the Vizio P Series if your usage is more gaming heavy.

It has a wide color gamut, great output of a 10 bit HDR signal and has some of the best blacks and contrast found on an LED TV. It’s also excellent for playing games using one of the new consoles since it has one of the lowest input lag we’ve tested and next to no motion blur. The input lag is not affected by having HDR on either. It reaches impressive peaks of brightness, some of the highest we’ve tested at 1472 cd/m2.

If you plan to use your TV for a large variety of content other than HDR and didn't want to shell out for OLED, the KS8000 is the best buy."

This will be mine.
 
BruceCLea said:
This is from Rtings.com, a tv site. If you care about HDR and gaming, this is what you need to know. TVs much more expensive can't do this:

"The Samsung KS8000 is one of the best 4K TVs available right now. It’s really versatile, it does great in brighter rooms and is the best alternative to the Vizio P Series if your usage is more gaming heavy.

It has a wide color gamut, great output of a 10 bit HDR signal and has some of the best blacks and contrast found on an LED TV. It’s also excellent for playing games using one of the new consoles since it has one of the lowest input lag we’ve tested and next to no motion blur. The input lag is not affected by having HDR on either. It reaches impressive peaks of brightness, some of the highest we’ve tested at 1472 cd/m2.

If you plan to use your TV for a large variety of content other than HDR and didn't want to shell out for OLED, the KS8000 is the best buy."

This will be mine.
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That was one of the articles that sealed deal for me. Got my ks8000 about 3 weeks ago. Its great.
 
I laid out the money for the 65" LG OLED flat panel TV last year when the price dropped, and it's so glorious. The HDR on it is phenomenal.

Although I'm now kicking myself because this year's new model supports Dolby Vision and my 2015 model doesn't. Everything I read last fall suggested that DV wasn't going to gain much traction, but what a difference a year makes.
 
Returned my KS8000. Definitely not at all happy with the issues and the edge lit. Ok if you just want to improve into HDR but with such a major jump in color back lit array is almost a required especially with the vertical banding that tv has.
 
PC Magazine is claiming the Vizio P50-C1 has input lag in the 30s:

http://www.pcmag.com/review/347614/vizio-p50-c1

The P50-C1 showed an input lag of 32.1 milliseconds (ms) in the Calibrated picture mode, which is fairly quick for a 4K television. Curiously, the Game picture mode showed an input lag of 37ms, when such modes usually reduce input lag at the expense of picture quality. The difference is negligible, though, and both numbers are better than the LG 55UH8500's 53.4ms input lag. If you want to do much better, you need to get a smaller screen in the form of a dedicated gaming monitor.


It's a grand, but has that 60hz panel.
 
What this thread is telling me, in addition to the extreme prices there is also considerable input lag on most 4k HDR tvs, so basically I should wait about 6-9+ years until the PS5 Pro releases before I even think of buying a 4k HDR tv at an affordable price with less input lag.

Edit: Does anyone know of any displays at all that do 1080p and HDR? Or is HDR exclusive to 4k displays?
 
Karspankey said:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01D98AQ30/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2AS1C3KAWCEVN&coliid=I3KUQ1LVY83G5X&psc=1

The Samsung UN49KS8000

or the less expensive https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FWIEO2E/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2AS1C3KAWCEVN&coliid=I3995H33CGL3J7&psc=1

Sony XBR43X800D
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I know the input lag on the new samsungs are amazing with HDR on


HOWEVER

Hows the input lag with the XBR with HDR on? I know its really hard to find even a good 4k hdr set let alone one that will do gaming even decent



jett said:
Warning: this thing has 113ms of input lag outside of game mode. Game mode does not support HDR.
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When sending and HDR signal under game mode, the input lag is 22.6ms.
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check here mate.....its the best hdr set out there right now for gaming
 
Any draw backs for OLED? That is going to be my next tv next year (unless I shouldn't buy it?).

Also what do you guys think about curved vs not curved. Sometimes when I stare at curved long enough. flat panels seem boring in comparison. I don't know.
 
BruceCLea said:
That's the thing. This set DOES support both at the same time.
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Karak said:
Actually it supports both. it just sadly has other issues that impact it but for a cheap entry. Its ok.
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What about the Vizio 2016 P series? That's likely the one I'd grab because there's occasionally phenomenal deals on them. I won't buy a non 120hz/1080p supported set anymore. I've had a Samsung JS9000 and the picture quality was amazing, but the relative lack of options for use as a PC monitor made it less than ideal.
 
This whole 4K HDR TV shopping situation is giving me legit anxiety. Like damn, I just want to find a good future proof gaming TV that doesn't have 120ms or cost $1.5K at the moment.
 
Aztechnology said:
What about the Vizio 2016 P series? That's likely the one I'd grab because there's occasionally phenomenal deals on them. I won't buy a non 120hz/1080p supported set anymore. I've had a Samsung JS9000 and the picture quality was amazing, but the relative lack of options for use as a PC monitor made it less than ideal.
Click to expand...

On the previous page I posted a chart that details the various latency measurements with different setting combinations. "Game mode" with HDR on is around 60ms.
 
The lack of Dolby Vision HDR on the Samsung UN49KS8000 seems like a deal-breaker for me. I need a TV for more than just gaming, and if I can't watch 4K streaming content in HDR, I can't justify it.

I would splurge and go OLED if it weren't for that high input lag. Maybe waiting for 2017 might be best...
 
jaaz said:
I'm seriously considering the Vizio 75 inch, but the price between it and the 65 inch is ridiculous. The 75 inch price gets into 65" OLED territory and for that I should probably just wait until 2017 like you mentioned and see what LG does with their new OLEDs.
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I'm personally coming from a plasma. So many people have said that you can't switch from a plasma to anything but an OLED, and I'm starting to believe them. As of now, OLEDs deliver the best SDR content AFAIK, and that's what most of us will be watching for the majority of the next few years at least. That said, some prefer the "pop" of LEDs, and they reportedly provide a better HDR image due to their brightness. I'm hoping the 2017 OLEDs provide a good in between solution, with BF arriving just before Scorpio's release.

scitek said:
The local dimming helps negate a lot of the problems with blacks that IPS panels are known for. It's not as big a deal as it is with an edge-lit set.
Click to expand...

Make no mistake, the P series offers the best bang for your buck. Just keep in mind that having a IPS panel means you compromise contrast. That said, the severity depends on your viewing angle.
 
Aztechnology said:
What about the Vizio 2016 P series? That's likely the one I'd grab because there's occasionally phenomenal deals on them. I won't buy a non 120hz/1080p supported set anymore. I've had a Samsung JS9000 and the picture quality was amazing, but the relative lack of options for use as a PC monitor made it less than ideal.
Click to expand...

I am not in love with a 60ms input lag that those have.
The thing is none offer a good price and great features right now. Some are close but sadly the 1 feature these guys are pushing (HDR) is the one feature they are taking shortcuts with. Edge lighting, poor local dimming, or some other bullshit. Luckily right now one of my jobs is testing them for gaming:)

I would leap instantly at a smaller cheaper OLED next year for example than anything I have laid hands on currently.
 
bidguy said:
the sony one looks affordable. is it recommended for gaming ?
Click to expand...


I think it's 33.3ms with HDR and game mode doesn't seem to effect the tests with it on or in graphic mode from what the review said.

It's not amazing but it has a much higher color gamut or color palette with HDR than the cheaper Samsung model with HDR. However the cheaper Samsung model with HDR nets you like 20ms response flat in gaming mode with HDR on.

What do you want, more color or nearly a frame of response time?
 
Rtings mentioned the Vizio P series not being ideal for use as a PC monitor, does anyone have experience with this? I will absolutely be using my 4K as a PC monitor (through my 1080's hdmi, f that matters), and want it to look good. They said something about blurry text?

Also, the 1080 supports HDR, so that will come through on the tv, right?
 
bendeboy said:
this one any good?

https://www.vizio.com/tvs/rseries/rs120b3.html
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guy-opening-door.gif

Yes

bidguy said:
the sony one looks affordable. is it recommended for gaming ?
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Yep :) Here is a rting page for it http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x800d
 
BruceCLea said:
They don't handle HDR input lag well. They're gorgeous, but incredibly expensive. The KS8000 can do 23 ms of input lag in HDR mode because it can be in game mode as well. It's also $1100 at 50". Great future proof value for gaming.
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What features are they turning off to accomplish this?
 
Kill3r7 said:
What features are they turning off to accomplish this?
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None really. They are edge lit and have some vertical banding. For a cheap jump they aren't bad. If you can wait its best to do so for a full backlit one and see where other sets fall with better tech. But if you NEED it now for some reason its going to look ok for sure.

Edit: Oh ya as Jaaz said. its not actually Dolby Vision capable. But that impact is more up to the consumer and I think netflix does both.
 
Kill3r7 said:
What features are they turning off to accomplish this?
Click to expand...

The biggest drawback, as I understand it, is that it doesn't support Dolby Vision, which you will need to view streaming HDR 4K content from Netflix and Hulu, etc. And it can't be patched it either, as it is hardware based. If you're going to use the TV as primarily a gaming monitor or hook it up to a UHD player, and don't plan on streaming HDR 4K content, it's great.
 
Karak said:
None really. They are edge lit and have some vertical banding. For a cheap jump they aren't bad. If you can wait its best to do so for a full backlit one. But if you NEED it now for some reason its going to look ok for sure.
Click to expand...

Thx. I am definitely in the wait camp as my primary purpose for upgrading to a new TV would be movies more so than gaming. I have been eyeing the LG E6 but not willing to pull the trigger just yet. My VT60 is only about 3 years old.
 
jaaz said:
The biggest drawback, as I understand it, is that it doesn't support Dolby Vision, which you will need to view streaming HDR 4K content from Netflix and Hulu, etc. And it can't be patched it either, as it is hardware based. If you're going to use the TV as primarily a gaming monitor or hook it up to a UHD player, and don't plan on streaming HDR 4K content, it's great.
Click to expand...

Netflix has HDR10 and DV. Hulu has no HDR or 4K content. Amazon has HDR10. Vudu is the only streaming service with only DV.

Why is there so much misinformation going around about this kind of shit? Do people not do cursory research?

Very little is actually known about DV and its specific hardware requirements for processing. Lest we forget the KS8000 uses a SmartConnect box, which is swappable/upgradeable, and it's entirely possible that it can be upgraded to support DV if the video processing hardware is in the box.

Not only that, but HDR10+Dynamic Metadata will do the same thing DV does. It's rumored sets will be firmware-upgradeable to support HDR10+Dynamic Metadata, but it's not certain yet. Even if it requires HDMI 2.1, the KS8000's SmartConnect box can definitely be upgraded to support newer HDMI standards.
 
Kill3r7 said:
Thx. I am definitely in the wait camp as my primary purpose for upgrading to a new TV would be movies more so than gaming. I have been eyeing the LG E6 but not willing to pull the trigger just yet. My VT60 is only about 3 years old.
Click to expand...

Sure. I just think rushing into the one upgrade that is visually probably the most striking BUT not yet supported by a ton of games/media what have you is worth waiting for until need meets desire.
 
finalflame said:
Netflix has HDR10 and DV. Hulu has no HDR or 4K content. Amazon has HDR10. Vudu is the only streaming service with only DV.

Why is there so much misinformation going around about this kind of shit? Do people not do cursory research?

Very little is actually known about DV and its specific hardware requirements for processing. Lest we forget the KS8000 uses a SmartConnect box, which is swappable/upgradeable, and it's entirely possible that it can be upgraded to support DV if the video processing hardware is in the box.
Click to expand...

What does HDR10 even mean as a standard? Is it a set number of nits? How is it regulated? Everything I have read suggests that it is the minimum/baseline level of HDR.
 
Kill3r7 said:
What does HDR10 even mean as a standard? Is it a set number of nits? How is it regulated? Everything I have read suggests that it is the minimum/baseline level of HDR.
Click to expand...

I believe HDR 10 gives more life like colors while Dolby Vision is a little oversaturated. If I am wrong anyone feel free to correct me.
 
Kill3r7 said:
What does HDR10 even mean as a standard? Is it a set number of nits? How is it regulated? Everything I have read suggests that it is the minimum/baseline level of HDR.
Click to expand...

All HDR standards just tell the TV where to brighten/darken the image for improved contrast and a "dynamic range" of colors/brightness.

HDR10 supports up to 1,000nits, while DV theoretically supports up to 10,000nits, with its current target being 4,000nits. Dolby Vision is also mastered in 12bits vs. HDR10's 10bits. Dolby Vision has dynamic metadata which allows per-frame adjustment to tell the display exactly how to display the content frame-by-frame.

DV sounds impressive by numbers (10,000 nits?! 12-bit?!) until you realize no current TVs have 12-bit panels or reach much above 1,000nits peak/sustained brightness, even in 2%-10% windows.

What's actually tangible and DV has that HDR10 is currently lacking is per-frame (dynamic) metadata. HDR10 will be updated with this, and it's highly likely high-end 2016 4K HDR panels (P-Series, KS8000/9000) will be updated to support it. I don't see why they'd make HDMI 2.1 a requirement for it.
 
finalflame said:
Netflix has HDR10 and DV. Hulu has no HDR or 4K content. Amazon has HDR10. Vudu is the only streaming service with only DV.

Why is there so much misinformation going around about this kind of shit? Do people not do cursory research?

Very little is actually known about DV and its specific hardware requirements for processing. Lest we forget the KS8000 uses a SmartConnect box, which is swappable/upgradeable, and it's entirely possible that it can be upgraded to support DV if the video processing hardware is in the box.

Not only that, but HDR10+Dynamic Metadata will do the same thing DV does. It's rumored sets will be firmware-upgradeable to support HDR10+Dynamic Metadata, but it's not certain yet. Even if it requires HDMI 2.1, the KS8000's SmartConnect box can definitely be upgraded to support newer HDMI standards.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That alleviates some of my concern. This is reminiscent of the HDDVD vs. Blu-Ray battle of old, and we know how that turned out. I hope this is different and both formats end up being supported. I would still feel better with a TV that was capable of supporting both off the bat... Would you go with the Samsung or the Vizio if your use was 50% gaming and 50% streaming 4K content?
 
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