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Whats a good HDR TV?

PLASTICA-MAN said:
Yes the Samsung upscaler is very good. Sadly if you disable all those bells and whistles like when enabling game mode for the best input lag situation, the quality gets a massive hit and the picture looks blurry grainy and with the nosie effect I explained. Many 1080p don't suffer that much on a 4K TV but many others suffer so much especially if they weren't conceived to run on such screens like P.T, Infamous Second Son (that is why it is getting a PS4 Pro treatment), Outlast etc.. and many indie games.
I made a thread about it few months ago.
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This isn't really true though, the part about game mode looking bad. Game mode looks bad out of box because the sharpness is cranked all the way up for some reason, but if you calibrate your game setting to the exact same as your movie setting there is no noticeable difference in pq. Ive tested this extensively on both PC at 1080 and 4k 444 chroma and on my ps4.
 
ViciousDS said:
that quote is complete BULL


My vizio is 36ms in game and its a fucking joke playing competitively with it. Absolutely terrible for call of duty, or any shooter.

If I remember correctly 16ms is roughly 1 frame of delay at 60hz, meaning you would be missing over 2 frames of response on the sony. It's pretty noticeable, tolerable yes......but competitive you want probably 20 or lower
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Your Vizio input lag is just about average for HDTVs. I can guarantee you that many of the people that kick your ass in Call of Duty are playing with "terrible" 30ms+ input lag as well.
 
ViciousDS said:
that quote is complete BULL


My vizio is 36ms in game and its a fucking joke playing competitively with it. Absolutely terrible for call of duty, or any shooter.

If I remember correctly 16ms is roughly 1 frame of delay at 60hz, meaning you would be missing over 2 frames of response on the sony. It's pretty noticeable, tolerable yes......but competitive you want probably 20 or lower
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Maybe if your definition of competitive is MLG or something. I would hazard a guess that the majority of people online are playing on TVs with more than 50ms (and some over 100ms) of input lag.
 
The advantage of the Vizio and LG (besides the obvious one for the latter being OLED) is they accept BOTH HDR metadata signals, Dolby and HDR 10. The HDR wars are far from over, I'd rather have my flag planted in both fields. Though the Vizio not doing 4:4:4 at 4K 60 is bizarre to me.
 
BRocknRolla said:
Where are people getting these HDR mode input lag numbers? Is there a different term being used, because I can't find them anywhere.
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Review sites. Rtings is a good one because of how granular their measurements get. Here's a quote by them:

That's correct, for HDR support it is necessary to use HDMI 1 - 4 on the Vizio P. We measured an input lag of 62.1ms when sending an HDR signal with 'Game Low Latency' on HDMI1 on the Vizio P. This is quite high for gaming, and will be an issue for a lot of people. The KS8000 is a good choice. We found that when sending an HDR signal, it is necessary to set the color space to 'Native' but then it successfully plays HDR content even with the 'Game' special picture mode. We measured the input lag with HDR metadata and 'Game' mode enabled to be 22.6ms.
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Sleeping Lesson said:
Review sites. Rtings is a good one because of how granular their measurements get. Here's a quote by them:
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Just to be clear then, the only place to find these things is within the actual reviews (I didn't see anything on RTings specifically listing those types of tests and scores beyond just the basic input lag scores). There isn't a collection of scores specifically about HDR input lag, only what the reviewer references, if they mention anything about it at all.
 
BRocknRolla said:
Just to be clear then, the only place to find these things is within the actual reviews (I didn't see anything on RTings specifically listing those types of tests and scores beyond just the basic input lag scores). There isn't a collection of scores specifically about HDR input lag, only what the reviewer references, if they mention anything about it at all.
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Not precisely what you're saying, no. Rtings is really useful though, they have some breakdowns of, for example, the Input Lag of TVs, or the Best HDR TVs (Fall 2016) where they mention lag in every description. Their reviews also compare each TV to similar ones and tell you what's better at what.

You gotta do a little leg work, but the information is out there and is easier to access than it has ever been.
 
I play games upstairs and can't spend a lot of money on a tv with tons of features I don't need.

I would love that Sony or any other brand would release some kind of ' big 4K HDR10 monitor' without all the bells and whistles of a tv. I just want the damn thing for gaming.

I'm not into monitors, but do 4K HDR10 monitors exist?
 
So apparently, Vizio doesn't support Amazon video due (I assume) to their partnership with Google Cast. That's probably a deal breaker for me. Looks like I might be getting the Samsung after all.
 
For those who are recommending the Vizio P-Series, I am reposting what I wrote in the P-Series thread.

Careful with these year's vizios. I personally wouldn't recommend them. Rtings concluded these tvs accept a 4k@60@4:4:4 signal but don't actually display it. They only display something close.

Test pattern on Vizio P-series:
p-series-2016-chroma-large.jpg

p-series-2016-macro-large.jpg


Test pattern on Samsung KS9000:
ks9000-chroma-4-4-4-large.jpg

ks9000-macro-large.jpg


As you can see, the color test patterns above are blurry and show evidence of chroma subsampling. This is a common trick on cheaper televisions. The luma (brightness) is at 4k, so monochrome test patterns look clear, but the chroma (color) is at a lower resolution so the color patterns look blurry.

Also, the composite input doesn't accept 240p, so a lot of legacy game consoles like the NES will not work on it.

And the HDR does not work with the fast HDMI port (HDMI5) at the same time. You have to choose one or the other.

If you're looking for a recommendation, I would recommend the KS8000. Low input lag, impressive brightness and local dimming, and relatively affordable.
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jaaz said:
So apparently, Vizio doesn't support Amazon video due (I assume) to their partnership with Google Cast. That's probably a deal breaker for me. Looks like I might be getting the Samsung after all.
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Ah shit, really? And now I'm just realizing the Samsung doesn't support Dolby Vision. What am I missing out on without that? I believe Netflix streams both. It's just impossible to get everything at this price point.
 
Sleeping Lesson said:
Not precisely what you're saying, no. Rtings is really useful though, they have some breakdowns of, for example, the Input Lag of TVs, or the Best HDR TVs (Fall 2016) where they mention lag in every description. Their reviews also compare each TV to similar ones and tell you what's better at what.

You gotta do a little leg work, but the information is out there and is easier to access than it has ever been.
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That is what has me confused I guess. Looking at the Input lag link you've included, I don't see anything that specifically says anything about HDR related input lag. The Input Lag score is presumably everything in game mode (Everything off), with interpolation (the weird motion translation business that I hate), and "Outside" which seems like a generic catch-all. The only references to HDR specifically are those you find in the reviews. Unfortunately, not all reviews say something about HDR related input lag.

I suppose it's still early days, but there are plenty of question marks for TVs with HDR right now as far as their input lag.
 
Sleeping Lesson said:
Ah shit, really? And now I'm just realizing the Samsung doesn't support Dolby Vision. What am I missing out on without that? I believe Netflix streams both. It's just impossible to get everything at this price point.
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I thought a lot, but was corrected in an earlier post. Apparently only Vudu streams HDR content exclusively in Dolby Vision. All the others, including Netflix as you mentioned, either stream both or just HDR10.

I've realized that there is no perfect 4K TV for both movie watching and gaming at the moment. For me, it's either go with the Samsung or wait until next year.
 
BRocknRolla said:
That is what has me confused I guess. Looking at the Input lag link you've included, I don't see anything that specifically says anything about HDR related input lag. The Input Lag score is presumably everything in game mode (Everything off), with interpolation (the weird motion translation business that I hate), and "Outside" which seems like a generic catch-all. The only references to HDR specifically are those you find in the reviews. Unfortunately, not all reviews say something about HDR related input lag.

I suppose it's still early days, but there are plenty of question marks for TVs with HDR right now as far as their input lag.
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You're right, the specific info you're looking for isn't in a tidy list. It kind of can't be, though. Some TVs turn off HDR in their Gaming mode, while other have discrete Gaming and HDR settings (among other post-processing stuff) that can be toggled independently so you end up with a matrix of potential configurations and their resulting input latency timings.

[EDIT] Here's an example of the different configurations the Vizio P-series could be in, for example.
jaaz said:
I thought a lot, but was corrected in an earlier post. Apparently only Vudu streams HDR content exclusively in Dolby Vision. All the others, including Netflix as you mentioned, either stream both or just HDR10.

I've realized that there is no perfect 4K TV for both movie watching and gaming at the moment. For me, it's either go with the Samsung or wait until next year.
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Ah, ok. I'm pretty sure I'll be going with the KS8000. Now I need to figure out where to buy!
 
Sleeping Lesson said:
The Vizio P-series support HDR in game mode. Latency is in the 60s. They also support HDR10, although I'm not about new HDR features going forward.
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That is definitely a concern since it seems like a key upgrade?

Oh, given the latency number I assumed it wasn't game mode. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Some really awesome info in here. Thanks to everyone making recommendations and answering questions =)

Think I'll give this another year or two and see how 4K with HDR10 prices adjust. I remember being super excited about OLED yeeeaaaars ago so it's a shame to see it's still insanely expensive. I'm now coming to terms with the fact that I'll likely have to live without it for another decade...
 
Now I realize the KS8000 doesn't support 1080p@120hz, something the Vizio P-series does. Gaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!

[EDIT] The Samsung DOES support 4K60hz 4:4:4 though, which the Vizio does not. Shit.
 
Sleeping Lesson said:
Now I realize the KS8000 doesn't support 1080p@120hz, something the Vizio P-series does. Gaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!

[EDIT] The Samsung DOES support 4K60hz 4:4:4 though, which the Vizio does not. Shit.
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I love high framerates, but I tend to leave them in the monitor realm and don't worry about going over 60fps on a TV. The games that I care about hiting 100+ fps with are games that I'm going to want to sit at my desk with a mouse and keyboard with, anyway.

Get the Samsung, 4:4:4 is pretty important imo.
 
killroy87 said:
Regarding the Vizio P-Series (and 4K HDR sets in general, I suppose):

Regarding input lag, I'm not a pro gamer. I just want to make sure the games feel good. I'm not going to be playing competitive MP shooters to the point that I'll blame an extra 10 ms of lag on my performance. However, my current 1080p TV, I can definitely notice when Game Mode is turned off. It's a noticeable and terrible lag.

So, I'm getting a bit confused, specifically around the idea that input lag differs depending on which modes are on, and which HDMI inputs allow which modes (a problem that I find kind of hilarious).

So, I have a PS4 (soon PS4 Pro), Xbone S, Wii U, and PC (that I use to game, watch movies, and a ton of other stuff. heavy use), all of which I'll connect to my hypothetical Vizio P-series TV. Assuming I'd like the ability to watch 4K Blu-rays on my One S, and I'd like to best maximize the potential of each platform with as little sacrifice as possible in the input lag department, how the hell do I set this TV up?
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Anyone have any input regarding this?
 
Sleeping Lesson said:
Now I realize the KS8000 doesn't support 1080p@120hz, something the Vizio P-series does. Gaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!

[EDIT] The Samsung DOES support 4K60hz 4:4:4 though, which the Vizio does not. Shit.
Click to expand...
I've seen the test image, but how big a difference does it make on the actual screen? Is the text going to look worse than on my 1080p TV?
 
OG_Original Gamer said:
Looks like you are in a bit of a pickle.
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The first-worldiest of problems.
mullet2000 said:
I love high framerates, but I tend to leave them in the monitor realm and don't worry about going over 60fps on a TV. The games that I care about hiting 100+ fps with are games that I'm going to want to sit at my desk with a mouse and keyboard with, anyway.

Get the Samsung, 4:4:4 is pretty important imo.
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Yeah I think it's still the Samsung. If I can run a game at 1080p/120hz, I might as well just play it at 4k/60.
Decado said:
I've seen the test image, but how big a difference does it make on the actual screen? Is the text going to look worse than on my 1080p TV?
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Depends on the 1080p TV. 4:4:4 is very important if using your TV as a monitor (which I will be).
 
Sleeping Lesson said:
The first-worldiest of problems.

Yeah I think it's still the Samsung. If I can run a game at 1080p/120hz, I might as well just play it at 4k/60.

Depends on the 1080p TV. 4:4:4 is very important if using your TV as a monitor (which I will be).
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I was wondering the same, I'm looking at a Vizio P-series and will be using it as a monitor, and some googling found that using 1080p with certain settings yields a pretty solid image.

Edit: This is the forum I was looking at. There are some settings listed here that people say work well at 1080
 
killroy87 said:
I was wondering the same, I'm looking at a Vizio P-series and will be using it as a monitor, and some googling found that using 1080p with certain settings yields a pretty solid image.

Edit: This is the forum I was looking at. There are some settings listed here that people say work well at 1080
Click to expand...

Yeah I was veeeery close to deciding on the 2016 P series, but the 4:4:4 (in 4k) and input latency made me switch to the Samsung. By all accounts both are fantastic displays though, we're just being picky because we can be.
 
There is an important thing to note here though: there are two competing standards for HDR out there right now. It sucks. We have Dolby Vision, a proprietary format, and HDR10, an open standard. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the consoles (XBONE S, upcoming PS4 Pro and probably Scorpio) support the open standard, HDR10, since I'm sure no one wants to pay the licensing fees. This is something to take into consideration when buying a TV for 4k HDR gaming. I believe some manufacturers offer both standards in their TVs, like the Vizio P and M series, so you can get both types of content if you're interested in that...
 
Sleeping Lesson said:
Yeah I was veeeery close to deciding on the 2016 P series, but the 4:4:4 (in 4k) and input latency made me switch to the Samsung. By all accounts both are fantastic displays though, we're just being picky because we can be.
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That's fair. Up here in Canada, the price difference on the two models is quite high (especially as I want the 55 inch model), so I'm gonna go Vizio
 
Found Vizio P and KS8000 for the same price. Which one should I get?
The Vizio is FALD and supports Dolby Vision with good local dimming.
The KS8000 is Edge-Lit and no DV support and has lower latency with bad local dimming.

How playable ~60 ms lag is for single player games? I don't care about competitive multiplayer.

EDIT: Found this on Reddit. Good posts.
 
Hey guys,

i was wondering what you think of the Sony KD55 XD 8505.

I've been thinking about getting this one tomorrow because I've heard a lot of good stuff about the TV.

Is this a good choice ?
 
FarFromAnyGame said:
Found Vizio P and KS8000 for the same price. Which one should I get?
The Vizio is FALD and supports Dolby Vision with good local dimming.
The KS8000 is Edge-Lit and no DV support and has lower latency with bad local dimming.

How playable ~60 ms lag is for single player games? I don't care about competitive multiplayer.
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I bought my last TV (Toshiba 46LS5200U) only by reading user review son Amazon and Best Buy, so I clearly wasn't doing hard research. Considering I've been gaming on it for four years, and have never had a problem with game mode turned on (the lag is suuuper noticeable with game mode turned off), I took a look at what the input lag of that set actually is.

According to Display Lag, the lag on my set is around 55-65 ms (they didn't test my exact size, but I assume it's around there) with Game Mode on. And I've never had a problem with that. I'm sure that if I was a competitive gamer, it might be a different story, but if those numbers are accurate, anything 60ms or lower is good by me!
 
digitalrelic said:
Your Vizio input lag is just about average for HDTVs. I can guarantee you that many of the people that kick your ass in Call of Duty are playing with "terrible" 30ms+ input lag as well.
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Kick my ass in CoD, er, I have a 2.24 K/D run and gun in hardcore TDM and hold a 98.8%W/L ratio. The people we lost to.....were the greatest and most intense matches in my life, we don't lose often. God those matches even included camping feats where it ended on nail biters at 12 kills to 8. You face all kind of shit in hardcore

I own a MX279h 9ms input lag and am not willing to easily give it up

ElNino said:
Maybe if your definition of competitive is MLG or something. I would hazard a guess that the majority of people online are playing on TVs with more than 50ms (and some over 100ms) of input lag.
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I wouldn't doubt it! But due to playing on a 9ms IPS panel for the last 4 years, it's insanely noticeable if you are on a good display for such a long period of time and it annoys to see mistakes made due to a TV rather than your own skill. You can tell
 
The witness devs are using a LG B6P to develop on [link]. Why isn't that set in the mix? I know it's 60ms lag and $$$ but it seems to be quite the standard of awesome.
 
My next TV will be the KS8000, what are the chances the 65" will go down below 1500 by end of the year?
 
Now reading horror stories about light bleed and bloom with the KS8000. Will my torment ever end?

I think I'll go to Best Buy and look at it for myself tomorrow.
 
Sleeping Lesson said:
Now reading horror stories about light bleed and bloom with the KS8000. Will my torment ever end?

I think I'll go to Best Buy and look at it for myself tomorrow.
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Haha this is one of those things, man. Whichever you get, you'll fall in love with. Whichever minute faults each set has certainly won't be easily seen on a TV calibrated by Best Buy. At this point, just pick one.
 
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