Tacklemacain
Member
They knew exactly, what they were doing with this demo and for what kind of crowd they were doing it for.
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What's up with all the FFXV hate?
- Thread starter Owari
- Start date
They knew exactly, what they were doing with this demo and for what kind of crowd they were doing it for.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I don't get it. Were you really expecting it to be a 100% action game like DMC or Bayonetta?
When I see this: https://youtu.be/iiqTiE0h4-k?t=12m45s from there to 20:26, it's basically perfect when it comes to evolving RPGs. No, it isn't action reflex in the way a DMC kind of game is but it is also a lot more cinematic and allows more choices of how to go about the battle between the different kinds of attacks and magic and your team and movement around the field all while being a total breeze for anyone, especially with the wait mode option.
The whole system also allows soooo much more freedom when it comes to incorporating it into story events cinematically while not needing to drop any of the full combat suite, and I'm sure we'll see plenty of such dynamic cinematic applications through the story. I really don't see a dumbing down of reflex gaming here rather than a massive advancement of what would have been static turn-based or QTE gameplay, or highly-limited-presentation action gameplay with jarring transitions. This is the most graceful fluid fusion of action, freedom, tactics, and cinema I can think is possible right now. Other games already seem nearly robotic compared to it with their static scripting, choice limitations, and rote animations.
DrROBschiz
Member
Yup
Thats whats been killing me from the very beginning
As a mechanical RPG there is very little to grasp onto
I can't speak for other people, but the reasons for me "hating" the game are
- Type-0 was a mess filled with horrible design decisions. This doesn't give me hope
- The demos released thus far have been absolutely awful. The combat and camera specially seem worse every day
- Information regarding the game has been erratic and confusing
- Lots of seemingly unnecessary changes on what we thought was the original plan. This one is pure speculation, of course, but it bugs me.
I'm not worried about the characters and story tbh, it can't be as bad as XIII, can it?
- Type-0 was a mess filled with horrible design decisions. This doesn't give me hope
- The demos released thus far have been absolutely awful. The combat and camera specially seem worse every day
- Information regarding the game has been erratic and confusing
- Lots of seemingly unnecessary changes on what we thought was the original plan. This one is pure speculation, of course, but it bugs me.
I'm not worried about the characters and story tbh, it can't be as bad as XIII, can it?
You are being pretty literal with that. The game has been in development for 10 years.
SkylineRKR
Member
XIII is both tainted and very old. I understood that they wouldn't reboot the game with the Versus XIII name. And not just Versus either, sounds like a fighting game spin off.
XV sounds new and it sells. The fact XV is an action RPG is because its in fact Versus XIII. They poured lots of cash into Versus and had stuff ready, easiest route was naming this game XV. But thats not my issue with it, I thought it looked awesome during E3 2014. Its what came afterward.
DrROBschiz
Member
All im seeing in that video is proof that tethered combat sucks ass for 3D action rpgs
Pretty much this.
The combat in particular looks like they are combining turn based and action in the worst way imaginable.
I thought it was only in a pre-production stage for like the entirety of 2006-2011.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
DrROBschiz
Member
Im interested in what the wait mode is because the tether combat they have shown up to this point is fucking awful
LastCupOfSorrow
Banned
What happened to amazing FF experiences like what we had on Super Nintendo? I can't be the only one who misses the actual good games... I mean, FF3 was practically Godlike...
DrROBschiz
Member
Hypereides
Member
This is quite subjective I geuss.
Personally, it seems forced and artificial.
FFXIII managed to clear its reputation with time, for some.
It appears as if the main reason for renaming it into FFXV is, primarily, a financial one, Due to the large expenses that have already been invested into the project. Those costs need to be recouped, one way or another.
OmegaDL50
Member
It was.
Back in 2006 when Versus was initially announced, it was in pre-production on the Crystal Tools for PS3.
People continue to have this perception of the games development hasn't changed since it was no longer a PS3 game and no longer being on the Crystal Tools engine.
People want to say it's been in development for 10 years, but this is not the PS3 game that has been announced back in 2006.
The PS4 devkits did not go out until 2012, the same year the game was rebooted into FFXV and pre-production ended and active development began.
The perpetration that FFXV has been full speed ahead for 10 full years is false. Hell it's not even on the same engine and a large swath of the staff working on the game has changed.
SkylineRKR
Member
The live stage gameplay and performance does look better than the MS conference demo and released demos. But still not anything that could go as being fun to play, and the world still looks barren.
But yeah i'm not a fan of the tethered combat either. Also a lot of enemies hardly having hit reactions (simply run away during a combo) while the playable characters are over animated. Its a weird combination.
This series was in such a bad state that Type 0 was once seen as a good game. I continued with it last month, and gave up after 30 minutes. Game is trash.
But yeah i'm not a fan of the tethered combat either. Also a lot of enemies hardly having hit reactions (simply run away during a combo) while the playable characters are over animated. Its a weird combination.
This series was in such a bad state that Type 0 was once seen as a good game. I continued with it last month, and gave up after 30 minutes. Game is trash.
DrROBschiz
Member
I mean Tabata goes on in the video about how this system is meant for anyone to pick up and play
and it is. Clearly the combat is just there to look flashy and push you through the story
Im sure there will be difficulty spikes and mild use of tactics and strategy but without full control of my character and an overabundance of crazy shit
Its quickly going to feel like Kingdom hearts 2
Willing to bet you haven't played XIV:ARR?
I don't hate it, I'm just utterly apathetic towards it at this point. I've played a lot of FF games over the last 20 years, enough to have a shortlist of the ones I get on with and the ones I don't (not saying any of them are fundamentally bad games), and this one just doesn't speak to me at all.
I like the concept of the car, the road trip, even the bromance- it wouldn't be the first time FF has toyed with interactions being different if the main cast are all female/male. But neither the character designs or the combat appeal to me. At least the costumes can be changed, I find the big boots and cargo shorts on Noctis just awful compared to earlier art, like an old guys idea of what young people wear. If he's a prince, why wouldn't he be a touch more sharply dressed like some of his retinue? Guy needs a tailor
FF has been spectacle over substance for a long time, and I have very limited time for long games with a young family now, so need to be a bit more picky than I was when I had time aplenty. At this point, smaller JRPGs with a focus on tight, intricate combat mechanics rather than huge open worlds with scrappy action combat just appeal to me more, which is a shame as FF used to be a real highlight of the gaming calendar for me.
Ultimately it looks alright, just not for me this time. Still, the good thing about FF is that they change it up every time, albeit with longer timespans between main entries now. Maybe next time.
I like the concept of the car, the road trip, even the bromance- it wouldn't be the first time FF has toyed with interactions being different if the main cast are all female/male. But neither the character designs or the combat appeal to me. At least the costumes can be changed, I find the big boots and cargo shorts on Noctis just awful compared to earlier art, like an old guys idea of what young people wear. If he's a prince, why wouldn't he be a touch more sharply dressed like some of his retinue? Guy needs a tailor
FF has been spectacle over substance for a long time, and I have very limited time for long games with a young family now, so need to be a bit more picky than I was when I had time aplenty. At this point, smaller JRPGs with a focus on tight, intricate combat mechanics rather than huge open worlds with scrappy action combat just appeal to me more, which is a shame as FF used to be a real highlight of the gaming calendar for me.
Ultimately it looks alright, just not for me this time. Still, the good thing about FF is that they change it up every time, albeit with longer timespans between main entries now. Maybe next time.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I'm not sure why you say that as it all seems perfectly fluid and in control to me, but perhaps wait mode would be more to your liking.
I really don't understand wanting a traditional action RPG like Kingdom Hearts over this. That kind of gameplay is more responsive in direct actions but the actions you do are less varied and the tactical intensity is dulled. The ways that games have handled action so far is incredibly limiting compared to what this can and does do. The best they could ever manage was switching back and forth between attack mashing and QTE actions like God of War does, maybe stepping it up to Bayonetta level cinematic fight elements or Uncharted/TR sequences, but increasing that decreases freedom in equal measure. Not so with this. It's a brilliant system that could do anything, an evolution of gaming, all while increasing accessibility to more people. On top of that the animation is incredible, not robotic at all.
I will say that outside of boss fights it seems the AI isn't too bright or surprising, but random animals and guards have always been shits in FF so I wonder what kind of things we'll see in more intentionally challenging moments and locations. Regardless of how well they step things up in that side of things, I'm mostly just excited about the system itself and the potential it represents for the future of games. I'd hate to see this game get shit on so that no one takes heed at what brilliant ideas and design it is bringing to the table. It'd be a horrible repeat of the way genius combat elements and online coop mission structure/options in RE6 were overlooked just because of unfortunate level designs. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater when people are finally pushing game design past what we've seen for the last 10 years.
I'm glad for that. What he was criticizing there is part of what makes Zelda combat seem really boring to me. Sure, they aren't going to perfectly nail it and especially since FF is a rather casual game, but moving past these old old OLD gameplay design concepts is a must. Square can trailblaze proof of concept and others can improve, but it has to happen.
SkylineRKR
Member
It seems ARR will stay to be the last good FF game for a while. And that was a remake of a fucking awful vanilla FFXIV.
I am amazed at just how bad that E3 showing was. The game releases in September, E3 is the biggest gaming even of the year...now is the time to have a guaranteed strong showing. From most of the footage of the game (like that world of wonder trailer) we've seen before E3, I just know they could have put together a great trailer if they tried. Instead we got Afrojack which...didn't work, a stage demo with a guy who couldn't play the game well, and a VR demo that was embarrassing on all fronts. As an FF fan, I know I'll be getting the game, if only because I have to know what it's like. But if I was a casual, on-the-fence fan this E3 showing would have completely turned me off the game.
The VR demo was the worst decision. The shooting gameplay looked like trash, and they kept shoving Cindy and her oversexualised character design in your face to pander to the same people importing Summer Lesson or whatever. People excuse it, and the developers did too, by saying it was just a silly side project and might/won't ship with the game. So then why show it? I guess maybe Sony paid them to promote VR? But whatever they paid them can't have been worth ending their Playstation E3 segment on such a weird, bad note.
It's infuriating how many bad decisions have been made in relation to FFXV. It does seem that there's a good game under all of it. How good, I don't know.
The VR demo was the worst decision. The shooting gameplay looked like trash, and they kept shoving Cindy and her oversexualised character design in your face to pander to the same people importing Summer Lesson or whatever. People excuse it, and the developers did too, by saying it was just a silly side project and might/won't ship with the game. So then why show it? I guess maybe Sony paid them to promote VR? But whatever they paid them can't have been worth ending their Playstation E3 segment on such a weird, bad note.
It's infuriating how many bad decisions have been made in relation to FFXV. It does seem that there's a good game under all of it. How good, I don't know.
He had a point about the series needing to evolve.
As is, XV is shaping up to be an overall mess with some enjoyable aspects.
Hopefully, whoever's in charge of XVI does a better job.
robertsan21
Member
haha joke post hopefully. with VR around the corner you better stop gaming if you get offended by this LOL
BumblebeeCody
Member
I'm confused here. I loved the demos and think the game looks fun as hell. Love the graphics, open world and combat.
Let's not even try to pretend the Final Fantasy games have had a good story since after 6 now or that the characters are cringe worthy?
Let's not even try to pretend the Final Fantasy games have had a good story since after 6 now or that the characters are cringe worthy?
You mean the game they made boring and repetitive with 3.1? Yeah I've played XIV since the beta for 1.0.
And yes I'm still salty about the new changes in 3.2 and 3.3..so it is not good anymore. It was amazing.
But I don't want to get away from the thread topic any further.
On topic:
Everything I read so far from people was pretty negative when it was about the demo. Both demos for the public were bad for me personal too, bad FPS, horrible fighting system. I still have my CE pre-ordered because it is final fantasy..but for now I just don't know. I hope create a great game, my hopes tho are really low.
SkylineRKR
Member
Capcom's fully to blame for all of this. They created a terrible campaign and level design around great mechanics. They didn't bother to explain any of those mechanics too. You can not expect every single player to pick them up or find them on youtube. Especially not with a series like mainline FF which should cater to a huge crowd.
Its like all kinds of different crews worked on different things. It does seem RE6 and FFXV have things in common, both games seem to be(come) way too bloated.
I don't get these comments about the world being barren? What is the expectation here? From what I have seen it creates a believable landscape to travel in between.
Should it be like a Ubisoft open world with little collectibles everwhere or like Witcher 3 with treasure chests all over the place marked with question marks.
And its Cidney right or Cindy?
Should it be like a Ubisoft open world with little collectibles everwhere or like Witcher 3 with treasure chests all over the place marked with question marks.
And its Cidney right or Cindy?
DrROBschiz
Member
Its isnt direct control
Its tethered... As instanced in teh video you posted
Its why when one enemy dies Noctis fires across the screen to the next target without any input from the player except hitting attack
Hit literally calls out that in one scene he did nothing but use two buttons the entire time and that the system is built around this simplicity
Now Im not saying you cant do compelling combat with simple input but this just isnt a prime example of such. Its tethered. Much like what Witcher 3 gets knocked for.
If you liked Witcher 3 than I guess this is up your alley?
stargateheaven
Member
After FF7 they went overboard with graphics quality. Then slowly they started worrying too much about graphics rather than gameplay (see FF13).
I just want a game that looks like FF9 (but higher res backgrounds) and plays like classic FF (1-9)
I'll get this game. I don't think it'll be a good FF game, but a good game nevertheless.
artsi
Member
Hmm I thought W3 combat was very enjoyable, so maybe that's why FFXV combat doesn't feel bad to me
Night Hunter
Banned
I'm like the oppsoite of this. I was overjoyed when Nomura left because I can't stand the guy. Unfortunately, Tabata managed to screw up badly on his own.
Pretty much everything in the game looks horrible and I could have overlooked the general world design because they do have some gems in there (not the character design, that was Nomura tainted from the beginning), but the combat system just looks so unbelievably bad. Like a character action game gone completely wrong.
OmegaDL50
Member
We know very little about characters and their motivations outside of trying find out about the attack on Lucis and the fact that Noctis was on his way to see Lunafreya for his Wedding.
Besides that there isn't much else.
People using statements like characters are cringe worthy or story isn't up to snuff are projecting what they want since not all of the details of the story or most character motivations or plot specific details are even available. Making snap judgements basically.
hi tabata
Lol this is the problem right here. The hyperbole and people already writing it off when it's not even out yet.
OmegaDL50
Member
DrROBschiz
Member
I dont know what to expect from the story. They should just go full Metal Gear ridiculous since there is very little to ground these characters outside of the roadtrip angle
For the people who like it, how long have you played with it?
Original Man
Member
Those crying about the combat being bad obviously stink at it and have never seen videos of skilled players playing the platinum demo. Hype is through the roof. GOTY potential
DrROBschiz
Member
It hasnt changed THAT drastically from the Duscae demo
So im pretty sure people are well versed in the combat by now.
(im referring to Duscae with the latest updates and the recent demo)
Fbh
Gold Member
Sounds like I should be excited about it just because its FF. Those times are gone after the output we got from Square last gen.
Plus everything playable they have released has been dissapointing . Duscae with bad combat and terrible frame rate, platinum with ugly graphics , bad combat and terrible frame rate even in empty areas.
The game only ever looks good in the trailers which at this point I'm convinced are running on a high end PC. They can't even show a demo running decently but I'm supposed to believe they have massive cities with 100+ NPCs on screen running at solid 30fps. Lol
Plus everything playable they have released has been dissapointing . Duscae with bad combat and terrible frame rate, platinum with ugly graphics , bad combat and terrible frame rate even in empty areas.
The game only ever looks good in the trailers which at this point I'm convinced are running on a high end PC. They can't even show a demo running decently but I'm supposed to believe they have massive cities with 100+ NPCs on screen running at solid 30fps. Lol