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[decoyplatypus]

To be blunt, I feel like this game is suffering a massive identity crisis. I want it to be good but the more they show the more the steel plates of Tabata's ship begin to buckle and E3 was probably the peak of this.

I really wish he hadn't changed so much.

Can you (or someone else) summarize what he changed? I am curious how many changes were made to suit Tabata's tastes or reading of the market and how many were made by necessity because the original vision was (a) incomplete or (b) non-functional. Or were you also referring to changes Tabata has made to his own version of the game?

 

[Noob Fu]

I used to love FF games, but as I grew older the pretty boy anime look really REALLY makes me want nothing to do with the games.
And why does FF games mix Sci Fi and Fantasy? Pick one and stick with it, why would you bring a knife to a gun fight?

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Can you (or someone else) summarize what he changed? I am curious how many changes were made to suit Tabata's tastes or reading of the market and how many were made by necessity because the original vision was (a) incomplete or (b) non-functional. Or were you also referring to changes Tabata has made to his own version of the game?

The opening of the game got relegated to a movie (remixed), combat , character switching, Stella and some other story spoilers.. It was meant to have multiple sequels being spinoff but Toriyama had to fuck things up with 13

 

[mikefrails]

The sausage fest/boy band aesthetic might be the only thing I'm down on so far. I'm surprised more people aren't taking issue with it.

 

[brandonh83]

The sausage fest/boy band aesthetic might be the only thing I'm down on so far. I'm surprised more people aren't taking issue with it.

I did at first but it grew on me over time. I like their personalities.

 

[labx]

Hey man, thats me i dont look anything like a boyband loser. 😂

Hey man. Just a joke. You look like a handsome chap not in a boy band, more like a solo project. I don't mind that Tabata is doing a band of bros. I'm not fan of the new style but is a style that reflect the jpop culture. Boy band? Nah... jpop band yep.

 

[theecakee]

I wouldn't say I'm hating hard on the game, but I'm not sold. I haven't been a fan of what I've seen gameplay wise and the story/characters look very annoying.

Though, I haven't written it off completely.

 

[Village]

The sausage fest/boy band aesthetic might be the only thing I'm down on so far. I'm surprised more people aren't taking issue with it.

Its ok for guys to go adventures by themselves. That's fine.

Also square enix regularly makes women main protagonists, and important players.

So people actually viewing this with the context of the other games wouldn't really have an issue with it.

 

[Kazuhira]

The opening of the game got relegated to a movie (remixed), combat , character switching, Stella and some other story spoilers.. It was meant to have multiple sequels being spinoff but Toriyama had to fuck things up with 13

One of the guys from Easy Allies said that there's a chapter 0/prologue.
I'll double-check just in case, maybe i misheard it.

 

[dramatis]

I didn't care much for Tabata's ideas and games in the past in general, but I hope if FFXV can't meet whatever goals they have in the end, they don't throw him under the bus like it seems to happen to every main line director in the last decade with them just disappearing from the face of the earth. This is a someone else's game and ideas, he had to come in and wrap it up the best and as fast as he could and manage expectations based on what was prematurely shown to public, he has added his own touch since undeniably but it's not exactly hundred percent his game, it was probably harder than directing his own game that's what I mean.

The game probably won't have much of an impact or turn around the general image of final fantasy but I will be surprised if it is some irredeemable pos.

To be honest, I want him to be thrown under the bus. I have no particular affection for Nomura but I intensely disliked that he was replaced by Tabata, who, in my opinion, is inferior creatively to Nomura, Ito, Matsuno, or even YoshiP. I think part of the reason why 15 underwent so many changes is because Tabata received the project from someone else and thought he could do better. That's not necessarily wrong, but his track record doesn't indicate he has that level of ability in storytelling, in characters, or in game design.

I also think his questionable portrayals of females has no room in future Final Fantasy and I would hope that they wouldn't be in future Final Fantasy. If Tabata gets buried I will mourn him as little as I did Toriyama. I do not want him to get to conceive and direct an original FF mainline title for himself.

 

[Dangansona]

One of the guys from Easy Allies said that there's a chapter 0/prologue.
I'll double-check just in case, maybe i misheard it.

GI said the same thing, and as far as I can tell based on their other comments it is playable.

 

[semiconscious]

But didn't they sell the road trip gimmick a while ago?

I'm asking what about this E3 brought about disappointment? Or as the OP puts it, "hate".

well, i was addressing disappointment in general rather than specifically following e3. but, when they do finally make their way into the e3 spotlight, &, of all things, they opt to show a terrible example of a clunky, chaotic fight with a massive enemy you can hardly even see most of the time, maybe it just sorta indicates to people like myself that the final product could end up being even more disappointing than we already thought it might be? ...

 

[NoctisVsStar]

One of the guys from Easy Allies said that there's a chapter 0/prologue.
I'll double-check just in case, maybe i misheard it.

It's true but originally

Spoiler

Noctis and co were at the treaty party during the Insommia invasion they aren't there anymore.

that scene was cut.

 

[kunonabi]

I hate the action-rpg direction where I only control one member of my party and everything else is up to really crappy a.i. controlled characters. That's pretty much the reason I'm completely skipping FFXV and getting World of Final Fantasy instead.

 

[Holundrian]

The sausage fest/boy band aesthetic might be the only thing I'm down on so far. I'm surprised more people aren't taking issue with it.

I mean to me it's a bit of a bummer but if they're good characters it's all good. But if they're just caricatures/ pure stereotypes then, no thank you....
But that's also just another point where doubts come. After all we can only judge by what's shown and prior release output and when you put it all side by side it isn't in favor of building confidence that they can create good characters.

But then you can take the day 1 stance no matter what and call people with doubts like that haters.....

I think to this day though what bums me out the most is that I can only control Noctis. Being able to control your party for me adds to connecting with each one.
Meaning that they'll have to work even harder to make me connect with the non controllable members.

 

[mikefrails]

Its ok for guys to go adventures by themselves. That's fine.

Also square enix regularly makes women main protagonists, and important players.

So people actually viewing this with the context of the other games wouldn't really have an issue with it.

Yeah but I don't like how Japan tends to do it. I get this very 90s homoerotic vibe that, while generally fine by me, just feels dated.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

Yeah but I don't like how Japan tends to do it. I get this very 90s homoerotic vibe that, while generally fine by me, just feels dated.

These games are made with JP in mind first. That's just a west and east divide.

 

[vpance]

The Platinum demo was baaaaaaaaad. That's the only thing I played from that game and it really turned me of off it.

This right here.

 

[benzy]

I gotta say their marketing has been horrendous. They're trying too hard to appeal to the mainstream crowd by trying to make final fantasy seem hip and cool that it's alienating their core fans in the process. I mean is someone seriously gonna buy the game cause Afrojack produced some music for one of their trailers?

This is the most baffling. I think it really comes down to their marketing in trying to get new fans by doing shit they think will grab their attention. Let's make a new demo where you mostly control kid Noct and collect orbs and turn into horribly controlled animals, completely passing the real game off as if it was meant for 8 year olds for people who don't follow XV.

The times when the game actually looks good is when they actually properly show shit from the real game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO7nyrNBFXA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzIsbgDt5oM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_kTpwYblHo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXBXsBCthC4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiqTiE0h4-k&t=7m38s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX5D4Fenz5g


Not a collab with some "hip" electronic music artist no one actually cares about, not a demo where gameplay isn't a priority that's meant to be a tech demo but has major performance problems since they rushed it out so it's not even really a tech showcase, yet they don't even communicate that it's just a tech demo to the general public in Platinum. Then let's take a portion of the battle with Titan where the objective is Noct just stands around waiting for his buddies as Titan does the same arm swing attack and you doing the same parry over and over and show this on stage for the world to see because it somehow looks so cool and so easy to play. Surely they had something better to show...

Their marketing has been insanely dense in coming up with things to appeal to the masses. The only thing outside the game that actually looks good is the anime and Kingsglaive, but those are also heavily tied to the game's story and themes and surprise, are basically a real extension of the main game.

 

[andythinkpad]

I only look forward to FF12 remake.

FF15 I will just watch someone play on youtube, if I bother.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I'm already at max levels of hype so I don't really visit the threads much. I've seen enough, I know I want it bad. Just waitin for the day.

 

[Pandora012]

For me it's the battle system. I'd like to think that I'm fairly adaptable, with few exceptions. When I played the platinum demo, it was not fun at all. While I love my Turn-based game, I don't mind Action-based too much. And even found myself enjoying some of them. I don't know why, but it this battle system doesn't feel good.

 

[Lights and Waves]

I'm looking forward to it, and will purchase it Day 1. But I really wish it wasn't an action RPG. The demos are a bit hectic and I really wish they didn't toss out the battle system from Lightning Returns - it was so much fun!

 

[Twookie]

it's actually pretty amazing how SE's marketing department fucked up so badly

e3 pressers and afrojack trailer.... like WUT

 

[BurgerDicks]

Its more troubling that the game is already amazing and people have not played through it yet.

 

[Maebe]

That trailer was just a concept trailer that was supposed to look cool, which is Nomura's way of working. There was no real game or thought-out story yet. When Nomura was still in charge since its reboot in 2012 until 2014, when he departed, it already changed to what we know from FFXV. Even Versus was always intended to also be a lighthearted roadtrip-like journey. The whole game wouldn't have taken place at night with a full moon and sad violin music playing throughout the whole game. Read the older interviews with Nomura between 2008 and 2010.

All FF games I've played have had a mix of dark and light atmosphere/mood. Of course the whole game would not be the first cg trailer. That's obvious. Doesn't change the fact that it and the other media got me hyped back then and nothing I've seen of the game ever since it stopped being versus did that.

Now that you mention the road trip, I have no issue with such a story but I personally feel it would be better suited to a group of normal adventures having fun and rather than a prince and his servants. Especially with the "cool and relatable" angle the marketing team is going for.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

All FF games I've played have had a mix of dark and light atmosphere/mood. Of course the whole game would not be the first cg trailer. That's obvious. Doesn't change the fact that it and the other media got me hyped back then and nothing I've seen of the game ever since it stopped being versus did that.

Now that you mention the road trip, I have no issue with such a story but I personally feel it would be better suited to a group of normal adventures having fun and rather than a prince and his servants. Especially with the "cool and relatable" angle the marketing team is going for.

They aren't really his servants though if you watch the way they interact in the anime, does the main protag being a prince is a bad thing?

 

[kenji_sama]

To be honest, I want him to be thrown under the bus. I have no particular affection for Nomura but I intensely disliked that he was replaced by Tabata, who, in my opinion, is inferior creatively to Nomura, Ito, Matsuno, or even YoshiP. I think part of the reason why 15 underwent so many changes is because Tabata received the project from someone else and thought he could do better. That's not necessarily wrong, but his track record doesn't indicate he has that level of ability in storytelling, in characters, or in game design.

I also think his questionable portrayals of females has no room in future Final Fantasy and I would hope that they wouldn't be in future Final Fantasy. If Tabata gets buried I will mourn him as little as I did Toriyama. I do not want him to get to conceive and direct an original FF mainline title for himself.

I agree, if your game is failed, it's totally your fault. What i don't like about Tabata is that he talked and promised too many things but these stuff from trailers are so freaking bad.

 

[rayman1900]

I think that if you do a thread talking about the hate of Final Fantasy, I fear that what you will get will be mostly... Haters. You love spreading negativity, don't you

 

[Mediking]

I'm already at max levels of hype so I don't really visit the threads much. I've seen enough, I know I want it bad. Just waitin for the day.

Same for Persona 5. I'm so hyped for FFXV and P5 that I'm hardly in threads about them because I don't wanna get burnout or spoiled.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

I think that if you do a thread talking about the hate of Final Fantasy, I fear that what you will get will be mostly... Haters. You love spreading negativity, don't you

OP creates thread doesn't participate.. Sounds legit lol

 

[Maebe]

They aren't really his servants though if you watch the way they interact in the anime, does the main protag being a prince is a bad thing?

That's just my nitpick, since when I think of "bros of a roadtrip" I don't think of a prince and his chauffeur/bodyguards. I guess it can create an interesting juxtaposition but I don't like what I've seen of it, including the anime.

 

[KupoNut]

Can you (or someone else) summarize what he changed? I am curious how many changes were made to suit Tabata's tastes or reading of the market and how many were made by necessity because the original vision was (a) incomplete or (b) non-functional. Or were you also referring to changes Tabata has made to his own version of the game?

- Demon worshiping got removed, they said it would upped the rating otherwise.
- Fabula Nova Crystallis elements were mitigated.
- Versus was a spin-off consisting of multiple parts, that would end in a cliffhanger, and probably had a convoluted, experimental story a la Nomura. Parts of it got rewritten so it had broader themes and fitted in one single game.
- Ability to switch control of party members got removed.
- Stella got renamed Luna, her role and purpose probably changed, but we knew very little about her.
- All character designs got updated because modern consoles allowed them to have much more details.
- Tabata reformed the team in something that could actually handle AAA workflow, it was a mess before.
- Tabata started an ENG localisation process real-time with JP development because he didn't want there to be much delay between the JP/ENG release.

People should know that any game director doesn't make changes because he/she feels like it, but because they have to be done or because of limitations.In FFXV's case the game getting a 18+ rating would damage sales/promotion greatly, and they wanted to make one game, not a trilogy. I'm also sure Tabata wanted to stick to a story that was simple, and incorporate WRPG gameplay elements proven to work. They want their sales.

Only thing Tabata really changed was the way they promote the game, with frequent updates, ATR, Facebook/Twitter/Instagram/... and information drip-feeding. A double edged sword combined with them showing frequent PC gameplay. They should've only broken their silence earlier this year, instead of back in TGS 2014, way too early.

I have some faith in Tabata, I'm not going to praise him like some genius team leader, but neither am I going to praise Nomura. I feel like Tabata gets a lot of hate with people thinking things would be so much better if Nomura was still leading this, and I definitely don't think that would be the case.

 

[Megalosaro]

My roommate is pretty hyped for the game, but after the E3 demo, he is worried.

He didn't like how it played at all. He said it was basically a QuickTime event.

 

[KZXcellent]

My roommate is pretty hyped for the game, but after the E3 demo, he is worried.

He didn't like how it played at all. He said it was basically a QuickTime event.

The streams Square-Enix did throughout E3 gave a better look of the game. The demo at Microsoft was abysmal.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Why all the FFXV hate?

DNF-esque development.
Years of FF13 & its sequels, the initial FF14 launch, and some mediocre mobile games have soured a lot of people on the series.
No playable female characters & J-Drama boy band cast not appealing.
Combat is a huge break from tradition (as different as they were, combat in FF12 & FF13 could at least be seen as mutations or evolutions of the ATB system that most of the series has used) and many people who have played the demo don't seem to find it very enjoyable.
Not a huge technological marvel like many of the games have been (7, 10, and 13 being the big ones).
Poor marketing.
SE revealed FF7R before FF15's release so much of the hype that may have gone towards FF15 has transferred over to FF7R.

Game might still be good, but it doesn't surprise me that there's a lot of negativity around it.

 

[The Emperor]

Wel FFXV was angryjoe'a number 1 game of E3 2016. Press impressions are on the whole very positive.

The hate is from a vocal minority as always with FF games.

Game looks tremendous and will be great.

 

[Jobbs]

I have no agenda to pretend to like or dislike anything.

I won't be buying FF15 because it looks abysmal and the demo completely unsold me on it. Bad framerate, terrible controls, terrible combat -- Not to mention an obnoxious cast of ridiculous looking characters.

FF games are terrible at character design. If I was in a room with any of these guys in real life I'd be uncomfortable. They don't appear human or relatable or real in any way. They're like aliens.

Why would I want to go on a brode trip with them?

A game lacking a protagonist I like or at least find interesting or at minimum tolerable is a deal breaker.

terrible

 

[Holundrian]

Wel FFXV was angryjoe'a number 1 game of E3 2016. Press impressions are on the whole very positive.

The hate is from a vocal minority as always with FF games.

Game looks tremendous and will be great.

Guess we can close this thread then?

 

[Movalpolos]

Played it for about 2 hours yesterday at E3. There was literally no line to play. The hype is like really dead.

But the boss fight and battles they had on the show floor were really, really amazing. FFXVVR was also one of the best VR experiences I've ever had.

The 3rd day of E3 is always dead.

 

[artsi]

- Demon worshiping got removed, they said it would upped the rating otherwise.
- Fabula Nova Crystallis elements were mitigated.
- Versus was a spin-off consisting of multiple parts, that would end in a cliffhanger, and probably had a convoluted, experimental story a la Nomura. Parts of it got rewritten so it had broader themes and fitted in one single game.
- Ability to switch control of party members got removed.
- Stella got renamed Luna, her role and purpose probably changed, but we knew very little about her.
- All character designs got updated because modern consoles allowed them to have much more details.
- Tabata reformed the team in something that could actually handle AAA workflow, it was a mess before.
- Tabata started an ENG localisation process real-time with JP development because he didn't want there to be much delay between the JP/ENG release.

People should know that any game director doesn't make changes because he/she feels like it, but because they have to be done or because of limitations.In FFXV's case the game getting a 18+ rating would damage sales/promotion greatly, and they wanted to make one game, not a trilogy. I'm also sure Tabata wanted to stick to a story that was simple, and incorporate WRPG gameplay elements proven to work. They want their sales.

Only thing Tabata really changed was the way they promote the game, with frequent updates, ATR, Facebook/Twitter/Instagram/... and information drip-feeding. A double edged sword combined with them showing frequent PC gameplay. They should've only broken their silence earlier this year, instead of back in TGS 2014, way too early.

I have some faith in Tabata, I'm not going to praise him like some genius team leader, but neither am I going to praise Nomura. I feel like Tabata gets a lot of hate with people thinking things would be so much better if Nomura was still leading this, and I definitely don't think that would be the case.

This about sums it up how I feel.

And I'm glad they made it one mainline game... Think about waiting for the game 10 years, then play through it and get a super hype cliffhanger CGI cutscene, ending with "To be continued".

Tabata might not be a great creative visionary but he's been bulldozing the development forward since he took over and thanks to that we're playing FFXV in 3 months. Whatever the end result is, I'm glad the wait is over.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

I don't "hate" but I'm extremely apprehensive about it. Final Fantasy is one of my favorite franchises. I've enjoyed every single mainline Final Fantasy game; I even thought 13 was legitimately fantastic. I really want 15 to be good, but I have my doubts. I like the idea that they're pitching, but I'm not sold on the execution. I'm not convinced that they're making a compelling open world. Granted, I've intentionally stayed away from really in-depth previews and such, so my impressions are based entirely on the media they've put out and the Platinum Demo.

Performance is also a huge concern for me. I'm not saying the game has to run at 1080p/60 with tons of anti-aliasing, but what we saw in the Platinum demo I would consider to be unacceptable for release. I know that performance is the last thing that gets worked on in a game, but you would think they would polish up such a small vertical slice as much as they possibly could. It gives me the impression as a customer that the engine they're using just isn't up to the task of meeting their ambition.

I would love for the game to come out and be everything I want it to be. Nothing could make me happier. But I can't help but be skeptical.

 

[artsi]

Performance is also a huge concern for me. I'm not saying the game has to run at 1080p/60 with tons of anti-aliasing, but what we saw in the Platinum demo I would consider to be unacceptable for release. I know that performance is the last thing that gets worked on in a game, but you would think they would polish up such a small vertical slice as much as they possibly could. It gives me the impression as a customer that the engine they're using just isn't up to the task of meeting their ambition.

At least the Titan demo is giving hope, pretty much rock solid 30fps on XB1.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1235857

If the final game is solid 30fps and 900p - 1080p on PS4, with real time GI and all the cool stuff the engine does, I'm impressed.
IQ is not perfect as we've seen but I can stand jaggies more than framerate dips.

 

[Lynx_7]

While Witcher 3 does have tethered attacks as well, this is going faaaaaar beyond Witcher 3 in design and possibilities. It's going beyond anything gaming has ever done, yet what many games have seemed to want to do since Shenmue. It is a huge deal and they should get due credit for bringing it to realization. I hope they do at least from other developers at the GDCA.

This kind of hyperbolic statement comes across as either someone from the development team defending their game or someone trying really hard to sell it to me. lol

It's not even Square's own best looking battle system. Nier: Automata looks like it plays much better and feels way more cinematic than anything XV's janky camera has ever shown, at least as far as combat is concerned, and it didn't need a single QTE prompt.
I say this as someone who is still on XV's hype train, although not without a lot of concerns.

 

[Kaizer]

Same, I'll always have fond memories of Versus. But I'm still just as hype. The battle system is really fun to me.

The only thing that's bothering me is the AA i guess? The hair and stuff looks pretty bad to me lol.

But besides that I'm excited.

Echoes my sentiments as well. I'm still really excited for the game and can't wait to play it. I can completely understand why people have very mixed opinions on FFXV though, it's been a long & bumpy road for this game and Square themselves haven't done the best kob instilling hope back to the community.

Personally once I started digging into the combat system on the Platinum Demo more & more, I was completely sold on the game.

 

[Crankshaft]

This game looks gorgeous in videos, but when I played that dream demo that came out a month ago there was nothing I enjoyed about the combat.

I'm going to have to rent this game first before deciding to buy it. So my hype levels for the game are pretty low at the moment.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The people complaining wouldn't play it anyway. The hype makes them feel like they have to comment on it.

Have played every mainline Final Fantasy game and a good majority of the spin-offs, but yeah, I wasn't going to play it anyways.

Tell me more Nostradamus.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Yeah but I don't like how Japan tends to do it. I get this very 90s homoerotic vibe that, while generally fine by me, just feels dated.

Wait what?

How in the world has there been anything close to Homoerotic outside of them being 4 men?

Plus that would be fucking amazing if they intentionally made it Homoerotic, but thus far I see nothing that gives that impression.

 

[MetatronM]

The big thing to me is that FFXV has had two different playable demos available to the public already, and the second one was much more worrisome than the first. Performance was even worse, and the combat also seemed to be worse than it was before, though it's admittedly difficult to gauge because it's such a small slice of how the real game plays. Factor in a terrible E3 presentation and indications that the performance issues still have yet to be ironed out even in public presentations just 3 months out from launch, and red flags abound.

I'm just glad the game is finally coming out. I hope they've really learned something this time around for XVI. I know we said the same after XIII, but at least FF XIV:ARR proved that even SE can learn from their mistakes every now and then.

 

[Rodney McKay]

The streams Square-Enix did throughout E3 gave a better look of the game. The demo at Microsoft was abysmal.

Yeah, after the Microsoft press conference demo I was ready to completely write the game off, it just looked terrible.

But seeing some of the Square stream (especially being able to pause combat) made me feel a little better about it at least.

I think the teleportation stuff in combat is cool, but the actual combat still seems REALLY rough from everything I've seen. I hope I can get used to it because I do plan on buying the game, it'll be my first Final Fantasy game in an entire generation (I tried FF13 but couldn't get more than 4-5 hours into it, couldn't stand the story and the way they were telling it).

If I can't get used to the combat then hopefully the story and the graphics will be enough to get me through it.