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What's up with Theater Wide?

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ProfessorLobo

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I remember ten years ago being frustrated that my full screen TV was being cut in half by wide screen movies. Now my wide screen TV is being cut in half by Theater Wide. Did this ultra wide format just get popular now or am I just crazy?
 
No, movies are almost always shot in this aspect ratio.

Many "widescreen" DVD's were 16:9 and not the original aspect ratio of the films.

There are some movies shot in 16:9, and that number will likely increase.

The HDTV aspect ratio was chosen because it is between the 4:3 of older TV's and the superwide of the theater screens.
 
Ford Prefect said:
Scope has been in pretty common use since the 50s. Theater Wide is a term you just made up, I think.
Click to expand...

I don't know where I got that term from. Maybe I am crazy. All I know is some movies fit perfectly on my screen and some leave big black bars on the top and bottom.
 
StoOgE said:
No, movies are almost always shot in this aspect ratio.

Many "widescreen" DVD's were 16:9 and not the original aspect ratio of the films.

There are some movies shot in 16:9, and that number will likely increase.

The HDTV aspect ratio was chosen because it is between the 4:3 of older TV's and the superwide of the theater screens.
Click to expand...

Ah I see. For some reason I thought HDTV's were 16:9.
 
ahahaha....now I know what you are talking about.
you are a silly person :lol
 
ProfessorLobo said:
I don't know where I got that term from. Maybe I am crazy. All I know is some movies fit perfectly on my screen and some leave big black bars on the top and bottom.
Click to expand...

The "Big Black Bars" mean you are seeing what the director intended.

ProfessorLobo said:
Ah I see. For some reason I thought HDTV's were 16:9.
Click to expand...

HDTVs are 16:9, movies usually are not.
 
StoOgE said:
The "Big Black Bars" mean you are seeing what the director intended.
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True, just not as much of it as I'd like. I wish there were some awesome new screens that would fit whatever I'm watching. Like a TV that was 50" at 4:3 and could morph to 50" at 16:9 and 50" at the normal movie aspect ratio. Maybe before I die...
 
Are you sure your TV is displaying the content correctly? Perhaps the movie is trying to detect whether you have a widescreen TV or not, and sees it as a normal 4:3, so outputs bars?

EDIT: TV Settings?
 
ProfessorLobo said:
Well this has been a fun and informative thread.
Click to expand...

Fun fact, this is how they get "Theater Wide" into 4:3 TV's & what you're missing.
20gib2g.gif
 
While a 2.35:1 film had pretty massive bars on a 4:3 screen, they're not nearly as big on a 16:9 screen.

Suck it up, it's how it was intended to be watched.
 
Even though I'll never watch a film out of it's original aspect ratio if I can help it, black bars still really bug the hell out of me. They're distracting and they take away from the viewing experience, at least for me.

I need to build some kind of retractable blinds system that'll cover them up when I'm watching either a 4:3 or a 2.35:1 film :P
 
Ford Prefect said:
Even though I'll never watch a film out of it's original aspect ratio if I can help it, black bars still really bug the hell out of me. They're distracting and they take away from the viewing experience, at least for me.

I need to build some kind of retractable blinds system that'll cover them up when I'm watching either a 4:3 or a 2.35:1 film :P
Click to expand...

So black bothers you, but blinds that cover the black won't? I don't get it.
 
Ford Prefect said:
Even though I'll never watch a film out of it's original aspect ratio if I can help it, black bars still really bug the hell out of me. They're distracting and they take away from the viewing experience, at least for me.

I need to build some kind of retractable blinds system that'll cover them up when I'm watching either a 4:3 or a 2.35:1 film :P
Click to expand...
Turn off the lights in the room. Problem solved!
 
DarkJC said:
So black bothers you, but blinds that cover the black won't? I don't get it.
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The blinds would function just like they do at the movie theatre, except in the case of wider movies they'd just be horizontal.

Hitokage said:
Turn off the lights in the room. Problem solved!
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It's the backlit black that drives me crazy, and it's even worse when the lights are off. Have TV's even been invented yet with perfect black levels?

It also bugs me that all films shot in a scope AR are much smaller on my TV than films shot in a flat widescreen AR, which is definitely not how it should be.
 
Ford Prefect said:
It's the backlit black that drives me crazy, and it's even worse when the lights are off. Have TV's even been invented yet with perfect black levels?
Click to expand...
Rear-projection CRTs were pretty decent BACK IN THE DAY.
 
Ford Prefect said:
The blinds would function just like they do at the movie theatre, except in the case of wider movies they'd just be horizontal.


It's the backlit black that drives me crazy, and it's even worse when the lights are off. Have TV's even been invented yet with perfect black levels?

It also bugs me that all films shot in a scope AR are much smaller on my TV than films shot in a flat widescreen AR, which is definitely not how it should be.
Click to expand...
medium_2174668392_d4a79ba3aa_o.jpg

:o
 
UraMallas said:
Could you explain what I'm looking for here in the last shot?
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TV on the right has black levels so good you can't tell where the screen ends.
 
Ah, I didn't realize there were two screens there is all. I saw the square but didn't really know what I was looking at. When will this tech be on the market? Does anybody know? I'm admittedly dumb when it comes to cutting edge tech.
 
Ford Prefect said:
The blinds would function just like they do at the movie theatre, except in the case of wider movies they'd just be horizontal.


It's the backlit black that drives me crazy, and it's even worse when the lights are off. Have TV's even been invented yet with perfect black levels?

It also bugs me that all films shot in a scope AR are much smaller on my TV than films shot in a flat widescreen AR, which is definitely not how it should be.
Click to expand...
We've come closer than I had expected.

I just received my Pioneer 5020fd on Friday and, to be honest, I didn't expect an improvement over my 5080. However, I could not be more wrong. The blacks are finally dark enough that the screen barely emits any light at all. Thanks to the high ANSI contrast, you literally cannot see the black bars even during darker scenes. A small white text block in the center of a black screen is enough to make it seem as if the rest of the screen is black. It's dark enough that, when a bright scene cuts to a black screen, it takes my eyes a moment to adjust (the screen appears black for a second). I've never experienced this on any flat panel display ever (only on a CRT).

We're still not all the way there, but to be honest, I actually think this is the first flatscreen I've used that beats any of my CRTs in this area. Technically, a CRT can do a completely blank image a tad better, but the second ANYTHING appears on screen, the overall picture glows a bit.
 
I don't see why so many people still use 2.35:1. Isn't 1.85 wide enough? It's like they're thinking "ooh, the wider it is, the more cinematic it is and therefore the better it is!"
 
UraMallas said:
Could you explain what I'm looking for here in the last shot?
Click to expand...
Ah, I should've included a link. Sorry about that. Two TVs, on the left is the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5010FD, and on the right is Pioneer's 'extreme contrast' concept. There's more info and pics here and here (though you can search pioneer, extreme contrast if you need any more info).
 
akachan ningen said:
I don't see why so many people still use 2.35:1. Isn't 1.85 wide enough? It's like they're thinking "ooh, the wider it is, the more cinematic it is and therefore the better it is!"
Click to expand...
Films are generally created with the theatre in mind, however. The 2.35:1 aspect ratio does indeed present a more immersive, wider image in the theatres. This is why it is still used so often.
 
ProfessorLobo said:
Then what are movies shot at?
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Whatever the director wants. 16:9 TVs are 1.78:1 and the movies of a similar ratio are usually 1.85:1, which is close enough that on older TVs overscan would hide the difference. Most newer HDTVs, particularly 1080p ones, let you turn overscan off so that you get very tiny bars, but unless your TV has shitty black levels or you have a silver TV you're not going to see it against the bezel, and regaining the overscanned parts of the image still gives you a net gain in picture.

The 'super-wide' ones are usually 2.35:1 or 2.40:1, or some slight variation on that ratio. With a few exceptions, most action movies or otherwise 'epic' films in the last ~40 years have been shot like that. The only recent exceptions that spring to mind are Spider-Man and both Hellboy films. Apocalypto as well, which is part of the reason why it's such a great BD demo disc.

akachan ningen said:
I don't see why so many people still use 2.35:1. Isn't 1.85 wide enough? It's like they're thinking "ooh, the wider it is, the more cinematic it is and therefore the better it is!"
Click to expand...
2.35:1 is designed to be closer to the aspect ratio that we see in, so it should fill your field of vision better and be more immersive. Objectively speaking, if you can put aside the "omg black bars!", most people should find it more pleasing to look at a picture in that ratio for that reason.
 
People should be forced to learn about aspect ratios before being allowed to purchase TVs. Real talk.

NekoFever said:
The only recent exceptions that spring to mind are Spider-Man films
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Incorrect. Only the first film is 1.85:1. The other 2 are both 2.40:1.
 
Fair enough, perhaps I read incorrectly. It always irked me that Raimi changed ratios. Im big on continuity, and while I prefer the 2.40:1 that he shot 2 and 3 in, Im of the mind that if he shot the first film at 1.85:1, he should have continued that way. Im sure 80% of people watching never notice anyways, but Im a stickler for visual continuity like that.
 
Ford Prefect said:
The blinds would function just like they do at the movie theatre, except in the case of wider movies they'd just be horizontal.


It's the backlit black that drives me crazy, and it's even worse when the lights are off. Have TV's even been invented yet with perfect black levels?

It also bugs me that all films shot in a scope AR are much smaller on my TV than films shot in a flat widescreen AR, which is definitely not how it should be.
Click to expand...
Place a small dimmable light behind your TV.
 
Solo said:
Fair enough, perhaps I read incorrectly. It always irked me that Raimi changed ratios. Im big on continuity, and while I prefer the 2.40:1 that he shot 2 and 3 in, Im of the mind that if he shot the first film at 1.85:1, he should have continued that way. Im sure 80% of people watching never notice anyways, but Im a stickler for visual continuity like that.
Click to expand...
I noticed it as well when I saw Spider-Man 2 as well. Unless it was a deliberate decision, what with Parker being better at being Spider-Man and thus having a greater scope to the film, it does seem slightly short-sighted to have gone with 1.85:1 for the first one when you were going to want to switch later on.
 
It is a bit odd that for a major action movie, especially knowing that you're going to have Spidey swinging all over the place, that you wouldnt opt for shooting with the wider AR from the outset.
 
NekoFever said:
This is one of the things that sold me on plasma when I bought my last TV:

Source
Click to expand...

what was the exposure time on the camera on that second pic? None of those TV's look anywhere near that bright to my eyes.
 
No idea, and it's a Pioneer display so it's obviously weighted, but the black levels of the plasmas that I've seen has been one of the things that's impressed me the most. My friend has Pioneer's previous flagship model and you pretty much can't see where black parts of the image end and the TV itself begins.
 
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