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What's wrong with MGS: Twin Snakes?
- Thread starter Corpsepyre
- Start date
Mac the KNife
Member
Listen to these posters, OP.
I'd also add that they changed the "lighting" and color palette, which was instrumental in setting the tone for the game. Twin Snakes looks much duller and flatter.
Quick Google examples:
I like the first person aiming in TTS. It makes a lot of the boss fights not a complete pain in the ass. Like the Revolver Ocelot fight, in the original game it's just bad game design, you have to shoot at him off screen and hope you hit him while you continue to run around in circles for a minute or two.
The tank fight is also pretty bad since the throwing and aiming controls in third person are awful. It's not good game design, it's just artificial difficulty.
That said, I still like the original game, but TTS is not as bad as everyone says and it fixes some of the bad design from MGS1.
The tank fight is also pretty bad since the throwing and aiming controls in third person are awful. It's not good game design, it's just artificial difficulty.
That said, I still like the original game, but TTS is not as bad as everyone says and it fixes some of the bad design from MGS1.
I definitely agree. Mei-Ling accent loss was fine, but the Naomi accent loss was a deal breaker. Also, David Hayter gave his finest as Snake in MGS on the PS1. Sadly, it all went downhill from there and Twin Snakes was a continuation of that downward spiral.
There was also a noticeable lack of consistency in terms of character models. They are all over the place in terms of design and proportions to the point that I prefer the pixelated originals.
The color palette change is definitely shitty.
My main grip is that the MGS2 controls just don't work in MGS. Also those crazy cutscenes....bleh
But the way to look at it in a rational sense is that Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes is the legend of Shadow Moses and Metal Gear Solid (PSX) is what really happened.
My main grip is that the MGS2 controls just don't work in MGS. Also those crazy cutscenes....bleh
But the way to look at it in a rational sense is that Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes is the legend of Shadow Moses and Metal Gear Solid (PSX) is what really happened.
Labombadog
Member
I preferred it over the original. Just being able to quietly walk and sneak around already trumps the OG.
AlteredForms
Banned
Those hilarious cutscenes.
Like this:
It's painful to watch.
Or has Twin Snakes actually confirmed that Solid Snake is now Gray Fox?
Uhm.. Guys...
I have a new theory...
Solid Snake is actually Gray Fox!
Like this:
It's painful to watch.
Or has Twin Snakes actually confirmed that Solid Snake is now Gray Fox?
Uhm.. Guys...
I have a new theory...
Solid Snake is actually Gray Fox!
Astral/H3X
Member
Original controls MGS3D is bullshit IMO. "Hold five buttons, one of which you need to hold halfway down just to aim your weapon" is needlessly convoluted.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I didn't even realize people hated it until I came to GAF. Personally, I liked it but it was my second or third playthrough of the game (having already played it on Playstation) so I wasn't bothered by any of the changes. I was also a big fan of Ryuhei Kitamura's action choreography prior to playing it so I'm sure that didn't hurt.
CreeperBlocks
Banned
dr.rocktopus
Banned
It was my first MGS game for me. Seeing what MGS became with later installments, the cutscenes didn't bother me too much; the bosses are common to both versions and equally ridiculous.
Personally the easier gameplay helped me. While even at the time I was like "man, Revolver Ocelot is easy", do remember that many of the Nintendo diehards didn't have exposure to MGS due to its exclusivity on PS1. It was a good way to ease new players in, unfortunately lowering the skill ceiling as a result.
Personally the easier gameplay helped me. While even at the time I was like "man, Revolver Ocelot is easy", do remember that many of the Nintendo diehards didn't have exposure to MGS due to its exclusivity on PS1. It was a good way to ease new players in, unfortunately lowering the skill ceiling as a result.
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
Most points have already been mentioned though one I really want to emphazise is the music.
Of course this is always a matter of taste and there are some neat tracks in TTS, but the biggest issue I have is how many story codec conversations and such are completly silent when they were actually scored in the original. The biggest offender has to be the whole REX hangar area.
In the original you had this song playing the whole time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=synBp17IGfo
In the remake you have NOTHING! Some ambient noise maybe.
Of course this is always a matter of taste and there are some neat tracks in TTS, but the biggest issue I have is how many story codec conversations and such are completly silent when they were actually scored in the original. The biggest offender has to be the whole REX hangar area.
In the original you had this song playing the whole time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=synBp17IGfo
In the remake you have NOTHING! Some ambient noise maybe.
Bomber Bob
Banned
Game had absolutely no soul
lazybones18
Banned
Um...
No one said anything about being realistic or down to earth so I don't understand where you got that from. Though MGS1 certainly is'nt as crazy as the other games and even then the game's aren't crazy in the same way TTS is. Either way most TTS fans seem to never actually understand people's complaints and instead go "derp derp all MGS is crazy" which is hardly true and misses the point anyway.
Solid Snake never does anything like he does in TTS. You will find no cutscenes in any other MGS where Solid Snake does any of the stuff he does in TTS's cutscenes. Solid Snake is always presented as just a really good human soldier(despite being a clone). He fights people with powers, who are far more fantastical then him. The entire point of MGS is almost how much of a human the main character is. Hence the toruture scenes and whatnot or MGS4 in general. He never does anything in cutscenes that is far beyond what you can do in gameplay. SS is not Neo and TTS does not understand that. MGS is crazy sure, but maybe thanks to the later games people seem to think MGS is full of people flying around like Dragon Ball characters. It's not. The plots have got crazy and people have powers, but they never move like matrix characters or anything. MGS's tone has always been fantasy military in that there is of course attention to detail and aspects of realism. TTS does not understand that.
And then it adds nothing to the canon. It has no point. It dosen't improve on the game beyond visuals. It adds nothing. It's additions like MGS2 gameplay don't amount to much since the actual game wasn't changed to account for them. So you kind of just have these extra mechanics that you could easily ignore since the level design dosen't reflect them. So what was the point? Hell in some instances it makes the game worse.
It's the video game equivalent of the Psycho remake basically except worse because it decides to mess with some things for the worse. Which then of course jives with the fact that other things weren't changed making a game with no identity on it's own and a style conflict. The cutscenes don't mix with the tone of MGS1 and since the game made no attempt to strike on it's own and actually change the story or tone of MGS they stick out like a sore thumb.
I mean why play this game over the original? The visuals thats it. The game does nothing better over the original beyond simply looking better. Even then it's not like it looks good. It's an ugly looking game with some strange art compared to the simple and clean looking MGS2. The audio is'nt better either. All it has is visuals. That dosen't make a game better.
Zombie James
Banned
So stupid.
old manatee
Banned
Twin Snakes was the first Metal Gear game I tried and it made me so angry I didn't try another Metal Gear game until this year when I went back and tried the psone version of MGS one, which I beat in like a week and loved. I can't remember why I found Twin Snakes so frustrating, but I remember I actually threw the wireless gamecube controller my brother got me for my birthday and had to just quit it altogether for the sake of my sanity.
NoctisVsStar
Member
It's bad that's all.
FrontalMonk
Banned
One of my best friends who loves the shit out of MGS had a really good way of looking at it. He said "You know how they talk about Solid Snake as 'just a soldier' instead of how he's viewed, as a 'living legend'? If MGS is the real story of what happened, The Twin Snakes is the legend. It's the retelling that's so embellished, so over the top, that it couldn't possibly be true."
And honestly, if you look at it from that perspective? It's pretty solid.
Ah typical TTS fans. Can't defend the game for shit against people's criticisms. So it's just either "you're salty" or "derp nostalgia".
Twin Snakes is the only MGS game I have seen/played nothing off. I never had a Gamecube, but I never checked out any gameplay clips on Youtube or saw any of the cutscenes either. Was thinking of doing this right now.
Gotta ask though. Why do so many people hate the game? Was it not a good remake? If so, did it change things around a lot, or did it drop the ball on the gameplay entirely? MGS 1 is one of my favourite games ever, so Konami messing it up would be disheartening.
Or maybe it's because its a Nintendo exclusive?
It's NOTHING to do with it being Nintendo exclusive, but you want reasons, fine, here are just a few.
The voices are off, I know it's the same voice cast but there's something missing in their performances that was present in the PS1 version. It's like they lack tension, they sound bored. And as good as Gray Fox's new VA is, he is nothing compared to Greg Eagles take.
While the graphics are good for the most part the character models are appalling, there's no reason why the Gamecube should've birthed worse looking models than the PS2's Son's of Liberty, yet here we are.
Just take a look at Otacon as an example, why does he look like a rat in Twin Snakes? WHY!?
They enhance the gameplay, but retained the design of both the bosses and the maps, which effectively breaks many of the encounters and makes things far too easy. If they're going to add new gameplay features they should have redone the boss encounters and map layouts, they didn't.
Snake is over the top ridiculous in this. From jumping off of rockets, to cartwheeling over doors to performing all sorts of crazy Matrix like moves, it diminishes the idea that he's an exceptional human up against superpowered foes, and turns him instead into a superhero himself. Some say Kojima okayed this, but even if he did, it's still a bad decision. The way he's portrayed in the original is pitch perfect.
There are far too many immersion breaking moments, like when Snake looks to the camera and nods at the player during the Psycho Mantis fight, the spinning portraits featuring Kojima and co yucking it up or Ocelot turning to the player in a similar fashion and warning against using a special controller. Yes the original broke the fourth wall too, but this does it in such an obnoxious, corny and unfunny way, and it plain out sucks.
Some lines were changed entirely, and for the worse, such as Gray Fox's - "But every time I looked at her, I saw her parents' eyes staring back at me.", which was changed to "every time I looked into her eyes, I trembled with fear." just a step down for no reason at all.
That awesome, timeless ditty that plays during the original's start up "do do do dododo.... do do do, dododo" is gone. In fact some tracks are changed for the worse and a lot of the great, atmospheric sound design from the original is absent.
But here's the main point, while it's not a bad game on it's own merits, when comparing it to the original I just feel it's the lesser product. I've only played it once and NEVER wanted to return to it, ever. And when I play through the series for fun or in preparation for a new entry to the series I will always, always, always pick the PS1 original, every single time.
OneEyedKing
Member
This has always been a big reason for me (in addition to all the other things mentioned in this topic). Obviously on a technical level the graphics are better in TTS but the atmosphere, art direction, and color grading of the original are superior which provides a better tone to the story.
stargateheaven
Member
The mgs2 controls ruin the game.
the cutscenes are dumb. snake constantly does flips just to move around.
they changed the end scene which was the best scene.. grrr!
the cutscenes are dumb. snake constantly does flips just to move around.
they changed the end scene which was the best scene.. grrr!
It looked great in its time.
Issues I had with it:
- AI is too smart/strong, possibly to compensate for the inclusion of first person aiming. I spent a lot of time in the back of a truck shooting shield guys with a pistol. Early on, you may as well just give up and try again.
- Having already played MGS2 at the time, the lack of buttons on the GC controller really hurt the experience. Plus the lack of pressure sensitivity on face buttons.
I never did finish it, but I had fun with it for the most part. The additions/changes certainly don't make it feel definitive though, because the new mechanics and changes break the core experience to some degree.
Issues I had with it:
- AI is too smart/strong, possibly to compensate for the inclusion of first person aiming. I spent a lot of time in the back of a truck shooting shield guys with a pistol. Early on, you may as well just give up and try again.
- Having already played MGS2 at the time, the lack of buttons on the GC controller really hurt the experience. Plus the lack of pressure sensitivity on face buttons.
I never did finish it, but I had fun with it for the most part. The additions/changes certainly don't make it feel definitive though, because the new mechanics and changes break the core experience to some degree.
James Scott
Banned
I remember MGS 2 feeling poopy in comparison to the first on the PS1, so I guess people didn't like the MGS2 controls
People also say it's silly, but in MGS 2 you do side somersaults naked and there's a fat man with rollerskates as a boss, so I'm guessing they don't like it since it's like 2 but only on the Gamecube
People also say it's silly, but in MGS 2 you do side somersaults naked and there's a fat man with rollerskates as a boss, so I'm guessing they don't like it since it's like 2 but only on the Gamecube
haven't played it, so i dunno
While the graphics are good for the most part the character models are appalling, there's no reason why the Gamecube should've birthed worse looking models than the PS2's Son's of Liberty, yet here we are.
Just take a look at Otacon as an example, why does he look like a rat in Twin Snakes? WHY!?
Why does Otacon look like a mess of pixels in MGS1? WHY!? WHERE ARE HIS EYES?!
The character models in TTS aren't as good as the ones in MGS2 but they're still an improvement over the original game...
RuneFactoryFanboy
Member
I loved it. Music took a hit and cutscenes were a little silly, but overall I thought it was better than the original. It's how I introduced my wife and friend to MGS, both of which loved it too.
I view the "game breaking first person mode" like a special optional thing. Obviously the original was not designed with it in mind, but your not forced to use it. It's like adding the first person mode to the new GTA re-release.
If you think it breaks the game then just don't press the button and play like the original. That's what I did and guess what, the supposedly brilliant well designed levels/challenges were never broken.
I view the "game breaking first person mode" like a special optional thing. Obviously the original was not designed with it in mind, but your not forced to use it. It's like adding the first person mode to the new GTA re-release.
If you think it breaks the game then just don't press the button and play like the original. That's what I did and guess what, the supposedly brilliant well designed levels/challenges were never broken.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Kojima Productions said they want to remake MGS1 recently and completely ignore it like they did with Snake's Revenge (another Nintendo MG), I think that says all you need to know.
Other then that the gameplay they added didn't adapt well to the original design and the cut-scenes was a parody of the originals, although some liked it, ie made the easy and matrixy
If you play it like that, is a parody of MGS1 you'll be fine, but to experience what we did in 1998/9 you should play the original and the original only
Other then that the gameplay they added didn't adapt well to the original design and the cut-scenes was a parody of the originals, although some liked it, ie made the easy and matrixy
If you play it like that, is a parody of MGS1 you'll be fine, but to experience what we did in 1998/9 you should play the original and the original only
Why does Otacon look like a mess of pixels in MGS1? WHY!? WHERE ARE HIS EYES?!
The character models in TTS aren't as good as the ones in MGS2 but they're still an improvement over the original game...
No, they're not, because they are all uniformly nondescript and you forgive the pixelated faces and just imagine them as their portraits in the codecs.
The Twin Snakes models are just garbage.
I'm not going to rip on people for liking Twin Snakes, especially if it was their launch into experiencing the rest of the series, but I will always believe the original is best.
They really aren't, there aren't even proper facial animations for them. I think they match the game's graphical style well but there's no way you can think that the PS1 has better models than the Gamecube.
It's a really stupid version of the game.
That looks awesome. What's wrong with you?
No, it looks fucking stupid.
FrontalMonk
Banned
well god damn. didn't mean to steal your thunder, this was something my buddy told me like 10 years ago when I asked him what he thought because I wanted to buy it.
ReyVGM
Member
OP, Twin Snakes is great.
If you want a game just like the original MGS, then play MGS. Twin Snakes is a remake, and like all remakes, things will be different.
The funny thing is that Twin Snakes is more similar to the theatrics of latter MGS games, so if you like those, then you'll like Twin Snakes.
If you want a game just like the original MGS, then play MGS. Twin Snakes is a remake, and like all remakes, things will be different.
The funny thing is that Twin Snakes is more similar to the theatrics of latter MGS games, so if you like those, then you'll like Twin Snakes.
entremet
Member
Not the cutscenes, which is a dumb complaint.
The cutscenes were ridiculous on purpose, dudes.
Why just have a straight remake? What's the point of that? I looked forward to each cutscene since I had them memorized from my multiple PS1 replays.
Stop complaining about the cutscenes, people. They were fun.
The cutscenes were ridiculous on purpose, dudes.
Why just have a straight remake? What's the point of that? I looked forward to each cutscene since I had them memorized from my multiple PS1 replays.
Stop complaining about the cutscenes, people. They were fun.